Three possible scenarios for the Nikon D800 and other rumblings

I basically see three scenarios for what is currently going on with the D800:

  • Nikon saw that Canon announced a 18MP camera and decided that their 36MP is an overkill and pulled the plug. Less likely, but still possible.
  • Nikon distributed wrong D800 specs with made up announcement/expected date to confuse the competition (and NikonRumors). Or maybe they just want to see how people will react to a 36MP sensor?

Several sources are telling me that the next full frame camera from Nikon will be revolutionary. To be honest, I don't see anything revolutionary in the D800 except the MP count and the removal of the AA filter. Maybe this "revolution" will come with the Nikon D4 and not the D800.

What else am I hearing?

  • The Nikon D800 product intro video was shot in Chicago few weeks ago. This should be easy to verify once the D800 is announced.
  • Nikon D800 camera samples were sent to many countries in preparation for the announcement.
  • The D800 will probably have a Sony made sensor while the D4 will have a Nikon produced sensor.
  • Several tipsters indicated that the Nikon D4 will be announced in January, 2012. The specs: 18-24MP, improved AF and video.
  • Received some reports that the Nikon SB-900 can no longer be ordered in Canada. A new SB-910 flash was one of the three products expected to be announced together with the D800.
I would not describe any of those tips as reliable at that point, I just wanted to share the latest buzz.
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  • I’d like to see a D4 in January but the cost may scare me. I also think 36 mp is a bit too much and I’d like to see a bigger push for higher dynamic range if anything. I’ll probably still end up with a D3s in the end.

    • Al dudorino

      Same here, high iso and dynamic range comes first for me.
      if more resolution mean less iso capabilities, I’ll pass
      I use D3 and D700 and will be happy with a 16-18mb sensor with
      the D3s (or more) capabilities.
      36 Mb is over the top for most uses.

      • Not Surprised

        36MP minus any serious increase in ISO = I will wait 2-3 years before buying that. Let my damn computer, network, harddrives to get faster, and patience for waiting for files to load grow (aka wait for Nikon execs to keep their promise of a “balanced” upgrade).

        18-24MP + higher ISO = Yes please. Right now. As in Yesterday!

        • since there will be high iso camera, 36MPix is fully fine. It is only 50% total more then D3x have and less pixel pitch then A77.
          they will not redevelop new sensor just because some people on nikonrumors complain

          • who made this stupid video? i personally cover my nikon logo and camera model with black gaffers tape so people think I have a new unreleased prototype camera even though its just a junky d200 that has shot many great photos. no rush for a new camera. make good pictures with a holga or iphone or whatever camera you have right now. if you can’t make a good photo on your camera now, you wont be able to make a good photo on your next fancy brand spankin new camera either.

        • Honestly, I think what Nikon needs to do is introduce something like you speak of as a replacement for the D3 series (mix the speed and low light performance of the D3s with the resolution of the D3x and call it the D4 maybe?) but Nikon would turn heads if they moved into the medium format territory with a FX sensor camera past the 30mp mark. Sure it may have some drawbacks, but for some people that isn’t an issue.

          In short, I think Nikon WILL address both markets shortly.

          • medium format is not about resolution. Not only at least anyway.
            medium format is about having cheap but perfect glass, upgradeable system, 100% control over results, LOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW ISOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,
            flash sync speeds and nice DOF at f5.6

            until D800 comes with ISO25, flash sync at least 1/800 and 30+Mpix it cannot be even in corner of MF territory at all.

            • I do believe the rumored ISO will go down to ISO 50 with the D800 now. Granted, it’s not ISO 25, but it’s still a stop closer. I agree, I would like to see a native flash sync speed of 1/800 or even higher. That would be a major selling point for me and probably a lot of people. I think to do that, it would have to go mirrorless however.

              I agree that MF has the advantage in the lens and modular department, but you have to pay to play… $50,000 or $5000, which is more likely to attract the most buyers? (Granted, I’d LOVE to have the Phase One system, but I’m not made of money so…)

      • Mike

        It was someone smart in Nikon who wanted to see the reaction.

        We are definitely going to see a sub 36MP sensor right now.

        I’d estimate anywhere from 12-24mp (more likely on the high end)

        And the D4x will be somewhere between 24-31.2mp, most likely.

        • Mike

          Meant to type 18-24MP**

          • so you think they will have a 18-24mm lens? 😉

      • D700guy

        Why cant we have the best of both worlds?
        Personally, I want a 36mp camera for my studio/portrait work as well as landscape.
        But, I also want a super D3s aka D4 for sports and then, a DX with high mp for wildlife and aircraft shots.
        In short; I am quite prepared to get 3 seperate bodies and life happily ever after.
        Why does there have to be just one body?

    • After using the 80mp Phase One medium format digital a month ago, 36mp doesn’t scare me off one bit. However, I do wonder if MOST people would really be able to take advantage of that much resolution. (After all, you would need top-end lenses to even get optimal sharpness at the sensor to begin with.)

      I would like to see the removal of the AA filter which WOULD account to a considerable boost in sharpness and fine detail.

      I also agree, push the dynamic range would be great. In addition, why not 16bit RAW files in addition to increased dynamic range? The 16bit camera RAW in addition to incredible dynamic range and resolution is what awed me about the Phase One. Even shadow detail was incredible and overall the images looked very (more) natural and accurate compared to what I captured side-by-side with my Nikon.

      I wrote about my experience and posted some sample pics on my blog (linked in my name).

      • Few Physics corrections:
        -Medium format (let’s assume minimal 4.5″x4.5″) 80MP sensor pixel site size would equal 5MP sensor on 36mm. Number of megapixels is not the problem. Problem is that smaller the pixel site size noise must be greater, “pixel depth” smaller, dynamic range smaller. 36MP on 36mm sensor means poor performance. Having 80MP but each pixel so big as on your medium format example – GREAT. Both a lot of pixels and large pixel sites. Nirvana. However on 36mm sensor, 36MP is needless sacrifice of quality.
        -“I would like to see the removal of the AA filter which WOULD account to a considerable boost in sharpness and fine detail.” – very common misunderstanding. Bayer pattern ruins that idea. AA filter assures that all 4 Bayer pattern pixels get the same information. Hence with AA filter there is no assumptions or guestimates in data processing. What you collect – you get. If you do not use AA filter red pixel does not know what blue (or green) pixels see, etc. ASSUMPTIONS must be made in the image processing. Assumptions have no clue about what you are imaging. Hence in majority of cases these assumptions will RUIN sharpness and fine detail. Way more than controlled AA filter. You may stumble on occasional special case where software matches what you are imaging but that is like winning lottery (though clever companies can use such cases for [false]ads on how their AA-less sensor works great).
        -Given the sensor size and MP number we have pixel site size. The remaining item determining “pixel depth” is technological advancement level. I would love 16bity “pixel depth” in this generation for 16MP full frame sensor but that is one closely guarded secret Nikon has. Based on historical advances – too early for reaching it (it would mean that Nikon have found a way to collect 100 times more photons per pixel site at the same exposure vs. older tech’ – not likely. These numbers will not move/advance as fast as MP#).

        • Davo

          Woah there!!! Where did you get 4.5″X4.5″ from?
          The largest digital medium format sensor I know of in production is 53.7mmX40.4mm which roughly equates to 2.1″X1.6″
          Or do you mean 4.5cmX4.5cm?
          I think you need to check your calculations.

          • Yep, the sensor in the Phase One IQ180 (80mp) is 53.7 x 40.4 mm (the IQ160 sensor is 53.9 x 40.4 and 60mp), thus the pixel density of the Phase One IQ180 is actually higher than the full frame D3x 24.5mp sensor and only slightly less than that of the DX sensor 16.2mp D7000. (if you compare the total pixels per millimeter of sensor area)

            Assuming a the sensor area of the D800 will be roughly 36x24mm, and rough estimates of the file size of 7400×4900 give or take a little, that actually gives me an ever so slightly lower pixel density than the D7000 but slightly higher than the IQ180. However, I would expect that the sensor will “actually” be the same density to the D7000 if it really is 36mp. Granted, yes, you get fewer photons through smaller sites in the same given time, their are a lot of ways to improve the way those few photons are detected that would improve the overall quality of the image as a whole. I suspect we will be in for a surprise when the D800 actually comes out. (Just my guess.)

            As for capturing a 16bit image versus 12 or 14bits, their may be very little difference, but any difference is some difference. In highly processed images, I can see a very slight difference from a 12bit raw to a 14 bit raw from the same camera, only because I do tend to push the shadows to their limits. I think scratch 14bit and go with a full 16bit pipeline and follow that through the workflow to the eventual output and their may be a slightly more noticeable difference.

            Honestly, I WOULD give up some of rumored megapixels (24 would still make me happy to be honest) if it came with considerably wider dynamic range and improved color accuracy. I could really go for something in the 16+ EV range in a single RAW capture, but I’m dreaming still… Probably one day!

        • Not to compare apples to hand grenades, but the Phase One doesn’t have an AA filter to my knowledge, and their were no issues with Bayer artifacts or Moire patterns in any of the shots that I took. Granted, your results may vary, but I have a funny feeling that Nikon has addressed these issues if they will be selling the camera sans filter.

          • P1 have LOAD of moire if processed with crappy converter.
            Capture 1 handles ist perfect

            • I agree, Capture 1 is no doubt the best solution for processing files from their digital backs. I didn’t care for it so much for files from my Nikon, however Lightroom handles those just fine. I wonder if moire correction is something that Lightroom may need to add in future versions? After all, even with an AA filter you can still get some moire.

      • burak

        “….16 MB of memory…” you mean GB right?

        • I assume you are referring to my typo? Yes, thanks for noticing… 😉

          Funny, my “first” image editing system had a “whopping” 8mb RAM which at the time was literally thousands of dollars just for that. And to do any filter in Photoshop meant leaving the system and having lunch, or even overnight and hopefully it didn’t crash.

    • John Richardson

      I don’t want more MP, just better ones.

  • Markus

    1 Yes
    2 baloney, the camera was already expected by market annalists (Nikon knows it too)
    3 Seems camera was already set for going into production (Thailand) (the competition know it too)

    You will see that Nikons’ answer to the X of Canon will be there at around the same time as the Canon is ready for sale, probable Nikon will combine the presentation of that camera with the follow up in the Dxxx line.

    • PHB

      Don’t forget the possible (4)

      (4) Camera was all ready to go but Nikon decided to reconsider the launch date which may lead to a possible change in the specs.

      For example, if they have a software update in the works it might well change the specs. Alternatively they may be forced to change a supplier for a component forcing a change and so on.

      • Davo

        Another possibility, the delay in announcement was for a D400 or D7100 with a sensor based on Sony’s 24mp, which is made in Thailand I believe.
        D800 and D4 are marching to a revised schedule anyways primarily due to the tsunami earlier this year.

      • definitely a possibility, but they could still have announced the other rumored three products

        • I suspect that they may either:

          A) Have delays with those products as well. (flooding, parts supply, etc)

          B) Want to release them all together

          C) Are not ready to release them all yet (last minute changes?)

          D) All of the above

          I’m guessing B, but just because it would make a greater impact and they probably already have the marketing and such together for the announcement that changing it now would be more money and take away from the impact of the combine release.

    • Davo

      I tend to agree with you.
      1. is possible and quite likely IMO.Although neither a D800 nor D4 will likely be assembled in Thailand, a lot of electronic componentry comes out of Thailand and supply constrictions would delay products assembled elsewhere. If its not ready, I don’t see the point of announcing anything.
      If Sony does indeed make the D800’s sensor, that could be one of the affected supply.

      2. No way. All the companies roughly know what each other are doing. If an announcement was delayed, they don’t pull major design changes this late.

      3. Misinformation and deliberate leaks happen all the time.

      I can’t imagine a D4 being absent at the Olympics. But a question mark continue to hang over the D800.

  • Marcelo Trad

    I Think 36mp is perfect for me as I work with advertisement and medium format cameras are too expensive here in Brasil. Don´t think it´s a push since Canon M2 is 21mp and their next will increase some and Nikon is behind Canon on the MP count for those cameras.
    To tell you the truth some times I question myself if I should have a Canon. Had to rent a 5dM2 to shoot some videos and some times because I needed more MP!
    So no, It´s not a push at all for me and others I don´t think.
    They can always come with a version with less MP higher frame rate or ISO to please who don´t need that much.

    • Thom wHO?


      Only 2 possible scenarios.
      Nikon announces D800 this year. Everything perfect but delayed.
      Nikon does not —> I’ll switch… (5DII)

      • Jeff


        • nuno santacana


          36MP is useless and is very costly in terms of S/N (signal to noise ratio)

          • Thom wHO?

            D7000 iso is so good to me and for anyone who shoot in studio. And now we are in 2012 and we have a FX technologies.

            • I have had the D7000 for a couple of months now and it is an OUTSTANDING camera in all respects except one that keeps me from ignoring other options.

              I don’t know why but Nikon is not coming clean about the back focusing issue this camera has. I have a case opened 2 days ago for mine and no response yet to the sample images I submitted.

              There is a lot of user buzz bus about this D7k issue but Nikon does not seem to openly acknowledge it and I have read new reviews of the camera that have referenced the issue.

              If I could get perfect focus lock I would not need another camera for years to come.

              Yes, I am using pro glass on it with the issue. I have a new nikkor 70-200 2.8 VRII that I mainly use with it. The lens needs a -2 fine tune adjustment on the 70mm end to correct and a -18 fine tune adjustment on the 200mm end to correct. Very disappointing.

              There also seems to be a related bug in the firmware. With the camera on a tripod and locked down, every time i auto focus the camera picks a slightly different focus. I would think this should be a fix to the firmware/OS logic and not requiring a hardware fix so why not just admit the issue and let the community help diagnose and fix it?

              Its this kind of thing that makes me keep an eye on other products (mostly Pentax K5 and lets see what Sony released as a follow on to the A900)

            • Correction – I have read ‘”few” reviews ….

          • sade


            • Hendog


              I will spend my money on FX because of the higher image quality, lenses and better iso (concerts, low light etc.) 36mp would be a totally dumb thing for me to invest in, unless magically the IQ is comparable to d3s. Unlikely. Think about it, most photographers really don’t NEED anything like 36mp, but can always do with better iso performance.

            • Roger


              Luckily for you there’s no magic required to have IQ comparable to D3s, even at 36mp.

          • Care to elaborate? Because I don’t see any problem with files coming from the D7000 which is roughly equivalent pixel density of what this would be. Add in more development time and the difference in technology alone could make all the difference.

            I can think back just a few years to the D70, D200, D2 era and compared to my D300 that I bought 5 years ago now, those cameras are terrible. Fast forward to the D700, D7000, D3x era and my D300 looks terrible (at higher ISO’s). Pixel density is higher now in the D7000, yet the ISO and dynamic range performance are light years ahead of my D300 that I still enjoy using.

            What I’m saying is, why not wait for ACTUAL advertised specs and test images to come out before we start calling it worthless. After all, so many people trashed the Nikon 1 but have since changed their minds since seeing the sample images. (Sure, it’s not a camera for everyone, but my wife likes it.)

            • Andrew


            • Roger


              Unfortunately there are lot of ignorant users, who’ve been trained to believe more megapixels means worse image quality.

          • Ken Elliott

            36MP is rather useful to those of us who own 44″ wide photo printers. I can make a 40″ x 60″ print at 150 ppi with it.

            Pixel density would be exactly the same as the D7000, and that seems to work pretty darn good.

      • phos

        I switched today.

        • Jesus_sti

          for what ? CAnon don’t have anything … Sony …. maybe Pentax

  • Maybe Nikon did put out some false rumors to see the reaction, but these companies surely plan years ahead (there was a local interview from 2006 with someone from Canon, stating that 1D series will be merged. If you don’t believe I will gladly pass the link). Changing the count of megapixels couldn’t be something they’d do in a few months, unless they have some “back up” plans.

    I believe the floods, plus no 5D MK III in the next few months, have caused the delay, if they ever even planned the Oct. 26th announcement. I think Nikon D4 should be first here in December/January, and fully in stores just when the 1D X will be.

  • Wow !!!

    What an interesting and informative video !

    • kerry33

      Informative video? Seriously, I just couldnt accept the ‘quality content’ of
      that video & kinda weird looking at it

      • Agreed. The video is pretty silly.

    • Andrew


      Nice video.

  • cfeather

    I’ve never been impressed with the Sony sensors. The D7000 was a real disappointment after using the D700. So I would like to see Nikon make the D800 sensor and have it be 18 mp with the noise characteristics of the D3s. That is adequate for me.

    The other issue is video. Nikon really needs to beat Canon on this one and is where the D800 could be revolutionary. The potential to create stunning video is inherent in these products, but the functionality has been lacking.

    I would love to see Nikon develop electronic follow focus with preset distances on the AF lenses that would be activated by a button or, preferably, remote. Also, a video grip option, that would add the XLR inputs and volume controls, articulating screen, ND filtration and follow focus feature to the basic still body.

    • Reilly Diefenbach

      The D7000 was a real disappointment after using the D700.

      “The D7000 was a real disappointment after using the D700.”

      Why, was the resolution too much higher?

      • Any disappointment in the D7000 is likely due to the back focus issue detracting from the image sharpness. Mine has that and I have a case open with Nikon to get it adjusted.

        Other than that I LOVE every other spec and characteristic of that camera. 16MP suits me just fine. If I need/want more mpix for something like landscape, PS CS5 does such a good job at pano that you can even get good sticking hand holding now. Sure, I would ideally like a 24mp camera with at or near DS3 ISO but how many people really need 24 vs 16 mpix? As someone said earlier, give me better pixels not more.

    • Calibrator

      “I’ve never been impressed with the Sony sensors. The D7000 was a real disappointment after using the D700.”

      Care to elaborate how & where a body with half the price should have been better to please you?

    • ericnl

      @ Reilly Diefenbach & Calibrator:

      because the low light capabilities of the D7000 were said to be on par with, or greater than those of the D700. but they weren’t.

      I keep reading comments from people who are excited to see a full frame version of the D7000 sensor in a D800, I for one am not.

      switching back to Nikon from having owned a 5DmkII for a year, I bought a D7000 to hold me over until the D800 comes out. the only problem is that I can’t really use any of the photos taken at iso 1600, the grain/digital noise is horrible on it!!!

      if the D800 is going to have the same type of sensor, I’m buying an (not so) obsolete D700 instead, and keep the D7000 for the video.

      • Cool WHip

        “because the low light capabilities of the D7000 were said to be on par with, or greater than those of the D700. but they weren’t.”

        Who claimed that? Bloggers? Perhaps the D7400 in a few years would have that claim. Nikon wouldn’t shoot themselves in the foot by releasing such a DX camera so close to the D700.

        “I keep reading comments from people who are excited to see a full frame version of the D7000 sensor in a D800, I for one am not.”

        This makes no sense whatsoever. How can you possibly have an FX version of a DX sensor? It’s like saying a Honda version of a Bentley. Perhaps the other way around would make sense. Do you even know the different between crop and full frame?

        • Ericnl’s post actually makes perfect sense to me. I think you’re trying to be snide, otherwise how could you not understand?

          “Who claimed that?”

          Nikon. When they bestowed the specs of that camera (and the follow-up little brother) with 25k and 51k ISO, respectively. These are better on paper than Nikons beloved D700, and yet the S/N performance is noticeably below that of the D700.

          “How can you possibly have an FX version of a DX sensor?”

          Duh. You take the same pixel density and basic tech behind the DX sensor, and scale it up to fit it on an FX sized area.

          I’m not saying this would be good or bad. I’ll reserve judgement until I can see/feel for myself. Nikon’s clean 24mp -> 36mp is an evolutionary step, not a revolutionary one — especially considering the typical res increases have been 2x in times past. But to act like the above post is nonsensical babbling is either disingenuous or daft.

          • Cool WHip

            Nonsensical blabbing? Some of it is. The fact that he bought a DX camera to be a fill-in for a full frame and then complaining it’s not doing it’s job. The D7000 is an excellent camera but nowhere near the 5D2 or course. He’s already ranting about how the D800 will suck. And you’re calling me daft?

            As for the second comment, I don’t develop sensors so I was out of line. But I’m assuming you don’t develop them either.

            • Thanks for owning up to your comments. Note, too, that I didn’t label you daft. Disingenuous was the first of two options.

              Either way, I understand what you’re trying to say thanks to your clarifications: How can one reasonably expect the D7k to perform at the same level of the D700? If someone compares the images for themselves, they cannot. But if someone is looking strictly at the specs — something most photographers fall into the trap of doing — then their expectations are going to be set high by Nikon and will subsequently be let down.

              Nikon has been very conservative in the past with their specs and this has bought Nikon a large amount of trust in the marketplace. It’s for this reason I can understand if someone assumes (assumptions are always bad) that Nikon’s claim of equal ISO performance on paper (or better in the case of the D5100) would indeed result in equal ISO performance in practice. It does not. The D700 is clearly superior, and physics tells us why.

              I understand that Nikon needs to stay competitive, especially when the sensor is designed by a company who will be using said sensor in some of their bodies too. But I hope this is not a trend of hyping performance by Nikon just to catch the uneducated crowd. I like to know when Nikon says something extraordinary like 102k ISO they mean it, unlike Canon et al. The recent story here illustrates what Nikon has bought — brand trust and market power.

              For the record, the D7k is a fair compromise for someone looking for the D700 and a VSLR in one package. It’s not a bad compromise, but the overall IQ isn’t as good as the D700 despite some aspects being better. But for those looking for a stop-gap with video functionality, it is a good tool, and certainly a revolution in DX bodies.

            • ericnl

              I didn’t expect the D7000 to be anything like a D700 or a 5DmkII, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not allowed to be disappointed by the signal/noise ratio?

              if a camera’s ISO settings go to 6400 (and I’m not even talking about H1 or H2 on top of that), is it weird that I’m expecting presentable photos taken two stops lower?
              as it is, I am stopping down to 800 ISO at the moment.

              and again: I bought this camera as a temporary thing, because do I realise that I need a FX camera, and I know about the DX limitations, but at ISO 1600 the D7000 doesn’t really give me that much better results than what the years older D90 gave me.
              I actually prefer the noise on the D90 to the one on the D7000, it looks more grain-like to me.

  • tom
    • Tom


      • Moth Flopwell

        Stock Expected Spring 2012 get it together please

  • broxibear

    “Several sources are telling me that the next full frame camera from Nikon will be revolutionary.”
    Video aside, where else can a digital camera go beyond better high iso, higher dynamic range and higher mp ?…adding more features that nobody needs or wants is not revolutionary.
    The only thing that could make it revolutionary is if it’s the same price as a J1.
    “Nikon distributed wrong D800 specs with made up announcement/expected date to confuse the competition (and NikonRumors).”
    That wouldn’t surprise me. All the major sites use nikonrumors as a source for articles, maybe someone high up at Nikon HQ got pissed off with it all. It explains the super secrecy and lack of leaks ?
    They’ve probably got you under surveillance Peter, the van’s been outside you house for a while lol.

    • VJ

      No options for revolutionary things?
      Just of the top of my head: there is the patent for interchangeable sensors, although I think it is still too early for that to appear in products… Then there is the possibility of other sensor techniques (get rid of bayer layouts, lytro-type technology, …), communication with other devices (e.g. direct connection to cell phone for remote control, adjusting settings, to make the phone act as a remote display, to upload photos, or connection with other camera for 3D photography, …), new body/control layouts (e.g. to better deal with video modes, …). Plenty of options!

    • to-mas

      Rubbers that dont fall off after few months?
      Revolution 🙂

      • goose


      • borneoaddict

        I had rubber problems on both the D300s and the D700. Perhaps a problem plaguing us living in the damp tropics….

        I agree, anything revolutionary ahead should be improved DR, better ISO & MODULARITY (putting the higher MP vs higher ISO debate to rest, once and for all)

        As for lenses, I hope VR & Nano coating technology costs may come down, and Nikon reintroduces back the aperture ring. There’s something intimate, direct & intuitive about turning the aperture ring manually, and being able to use them on old analog bodies…

        • to-mas

          Its not about tropical weather.
          I am from central europe where in summer is 30 and in winter is -10 or less and we all have this problems with Nikon.
          On D3 i had it changed 3times over 2years of heavy use.
          Its just plain stupidity from Nikon and they just dont want to acknowledge that.

      • +1 We all need that super rubbers! 😀

    • I still believe the D800 info I got is correct. Time will tell 🙂 I will definitely come back to that conversation after the announcement, I got so much grief over this rumor.

      • cpm5280

        I think that the vast, silent majority of folks don’t hold you accountable for anything here. If they do, well…it’s silly.

        About the D800 info being correct…is it possible (I’m sure this has been discussed, sorry) that *both* the D4 and D800 will be 36? Senior/Junior, pro/prosumer (or pro/pro, but differentiated other ways)?
        Hm. Dual launch?

        • There’s even an aphorism for this flaw in human behavior:

          “Don’t shoot the messenger!”

          And I agree. Anybody flaming Admin for reporting the rumors he’s gathered on a RUMORS site is just plain idiotic.

          That’s right, you’re a retard if your panties are in a bunch because something didn’t happen as reported here. Do not pass go. Return to kindeegarten and try over, morons.

      • Andrew


        If you are 100% correct all the time, where’s the fun? Then your site will no longer be a rumor site. The excitement of knowing that some of the information is correct and some might be wrong is exhilarating. If we are looking for 100% accurate information we might as well wait for the official announcement. The fun is in the guessing game! Have some rest, you are doing a good job.

        • I am juist used to 100% accuracy, either you do it right or you don’t do it at all.

          • YOU come to us with the best you’ve got. WE’LL come to you with the knowledge that this is a rumors site, not the Wall Street Journal. If I can’t hold the newest beauty from Nikon in my hands, I at least want to dream of everything it might (or might not) be. Thanks for providing this for us all!

            • mikils

              I kinda came to mistrust WSJ a little bit these days….

            • I could have said “The Times”, but then I’d just be listing another publication that cannot be trusted. 😉

    • Jesus_sti

      Why not a SSD directly into the camera like 8 or 16 Go … That would be fast et reliable….

      • Mike

        What happens when it gets full? Tell the wedding reception to stop so you can download your camera?

  • roylong

    Seems the rumours are getting more vague not less :0/

  • Val Venus

    Regarding the 36mp sensor, why would people not believe that 36mp is in fact 3 12mp layers? This would seem to make a whole lot more sense than a 36mp sensor.

    • GeofFx

      I was thinking the same thing Val. I suppose similar things have been done by Sigma and Fujifilm, but it would be somewhat revolutionary for Nikon to adopt some new sensor tech.

      • Robin

        Do you mean like one dedicated to each basic color RGB?

        • GeofFx

          I mean Sigma’s “Foveon” and Fuji’s “Super CCD”

          • Now consider this:

            Nikon really does have a sensor with 36mp output resolution — in all three channels. 108mp in all.

            Mind = blown. 😉

        • Hmm…layered sensor like Foveon. May be Nikon settled with Sigma over optical stabilization and as part of that go access to Sigma’s foveon patents (if they exist)?

          • Roger

            If Nikon wanted Foveon they could have bought it (Sigma did later on).

            Thing is, Foveon sensors are kind of crappy. Thats why Nikon, Canon, Sony, Panasonic wouldnt touch them even with a 10 foot pole.

          • Since we are extrapolating here…

            Nikon might be well served to look at Sigma for purchase now. There would be two benefits;
            1) removing one of the key third party companies that detracts from nikkor lens sales
            2) obtaining the foveon sensor patents

            I think there is value in the foveon sensor technology and would be a definite differentiator to other brands. Sigma does not (apparently) have the R/D or bank role to put behind foveon to make it realistic contender marketing wise, but it still holds great promise.

            Nikon screwed up by not seeing the value in Photoshop when they had the chance, would passing up a Sigma acquisition be a similar mistake? Hmm…….

    • GeofFx

      I was thinking the same thing Val. Sigma and Fujifilm have done something similar, but it would be revolutionary for Nikon to incorporate a totally new sensor technology into their camera.

      • GeofFx

        sorry for the double post.. not sure why my original took so long to load.

      • spidercrown

        I remember when Fuji launched their X100, the spoke person said that the reason X100 not using the super CCD is because this technology has no advantage on big sensor.
        Not sure it will help here?

        • GeofFx

          Well I don’t think anyone is suggesting it’s possible that Nikon is going to use a Super CCD sensor. I was suggesting that perhaps the 36mp is some sort of new technology that incorporates either 3x12mp sensors or 2x18mp sensors.

          • spidercrown

            ya, i’m refering to the same thing.. the multi layering to make up more pixels.. What i’m trying to say is, Fuji have the technology, but did not incoporate into their x100. Anyway, it is just a question pop out in my mind. May be it really help.. Cheers..

  • Joe

    I am seriously considering to switch to Canon for my next upgrade. I love Nikon but I am disappointed with its interactions/communication skills with customers. Besides, Canon is leading the technology on dslr video. There will always be good adapters to use my nikon lenses. I am just waiting to hear good news about the D800 to take this decision.

    • jg

      Hey Joe, head over to some of the Canon rumor and fanboy sites; they aren’t any happier with Canon than we are with Nikon.

      The whole of the internet is populated with Veruca Salt.

      I want it now. Make time go faster.

      • Haha. “Veruca Salt”. Perfectly said.

        And comments from paid Astroturfers like Joe are patently false. Canon is not “leading the technology on DSLR video” no matter how many time the paid shills say so. Take your lame attempts to spread disinformation somewhere else.

    • Jesus_sti

      Get back Canon Troll !!!!

    • jb

      Let me know when you do, so I can buy your Nikon gear (and ditch my Canon equipment). The only happy Canon users right now are 5DMKII owners who want high(er) resolution and video in their small-ish full frame body. The rest of us are tired of the ancient auto-focus system. The grass is definitely less green on our side for the last few years (at least for most of us).

  • Try this out:

    It says D700 production is discontinued; sales are limited to stock on hand. It’s been a wild crazy ride. I still find it difficult to believe we are going from 12 MP to 36 in one jump.

    • Craig

      24 MP to 36 MP in one jump is what you mean, right? The D3x has 24 MP.

      • Well, that is one way of looking at it.

        • Roger

          No, that’s the only way of looking at it.

          D800 will have Sony sensor likely. Sony only has 24mp sensor (D3x) . Next Sony sensor will have 36mp.

          We’re going from 24mp to 36mp and that’s a very very small jump.

          • Bingo.

            • Discontinued

              LOL, where has your MP-paranoia gone ? ? ?
              You’ve earned a reputation. What about all the effort. Going to waste I suppose?

            • “LOL, where has your MP-paranoia gone ? ? ?”

              This is a classic case of internetforumitis. I have handily combated the misconception that one needs more megapixels to produce quality images, but in doing so have had the title of pixel hater graciously bestowed upon me. 🙂

              I will repeat it again, for the sake of all reasonable-minded folks: I welcome more megapixels so long as they do not come at the expense of other, more universally important aspects of image quality. I would love an affordable 36mp body for the resolution. But if moving forward in resolution came at the expense of dynamic range, color fidelity, shoulder and toe response, shooting speed, high ISO performance (and low ISO performance), sharpness etc then it’s not really a step forward at all.

              I’d prefer we see monumental leaps in the core areas of image quality first, then increase MP to the most reasonable level you can afford without sacrificing these other aspects of the image. This way EVERY image has a chance to look better, not just the one in a million that gets blown up to poster size.

  • VJ

    Just curious, any thoughts on a DX successor for the D300s? (e.g. combining the best of the D7000 and the D300s)

    • the one I am waiting for too!

    • mikils

      Come on, who is going to look for a DX camera when anyone will be able to crop a 36 MP image?

      • VJ

        There would be quite a price difference between an FF 36MP sensor and a cropped DX version… And if you have some decent DX glass, and don’t really need FF, why would I need to buy such an FF model to only use a small portion of it?

        • mikils

          to keep your wide angle lens as such?

          • VJ

            I’m happy with the lens range on my current DX…

  • ron jon

    That video is epic…

  • T.I.M

    The D800 is revolutionary because of the 3 RGB sensors (12MP each), not because of the 36MP total.

    • that is a possibility, I just have not heard anything confirming it

      • Roger

        No, that’s not a possibility. Come on people, this isnt too hard to guess.

    • Ren Kockwell

      That would be revolutionary, and what it does for highlight areas in the Foveon experiments is amazing, but what evidence do we have that they’re going that way? TIM, your record is starting to suffer a bit!

      The other thing that worries me Peter, is that your ability to acquire information seems to be getting stymied. Your moles in the past were solid and ubiquitous, but lately, it seems Nikon has done an incredible job of keeping everybody’s mouth shut. If the flood delayed the release, surely some other information would have been “leaked” by now, because that would mean the beast exists.

      Come on Nikon people! Show Peter a little love! Drop him a line!

      • You are 100% correct, it has been a pain to get reliable info lately. I receive the most bizarre stuff and nothing makes any sense.

        • VJ

          Could they be doing this on purpose to throw rumour sites off or to undermine their credibility?

      • Roger

        Things are being leaked….. just not to NR. 😉

    • That could be interesting… That could lead to very good dynamic range, very natural color rendering and potentially better ISO performance I suspect.

      • Indeed, a Nikon Foveon-style sensor seems to have a lot of promise. But funny how Foveon has been derided for years (primarily due to low megapixel count).

        Would it be sharper? Will you get more colour saturation or depth? Will you have more dynamic range? If the answers to all these is yes, than I welcome it whole-heartedly

      • Roger


        Foveon sensors have the worst color out of any sensors on the market, worst ISO performance too.

        Thank your god Nikon doesnt make a camera with Foveon sensor.

        • To my knowledge, some of the Fuji bodies utilized the Foveon sensors and were at the time considered the best in terms of color accuracy and dynamic range. I think the technology has gone by the wayside for a long time, probably due to manufacturing costs or lack of support by major manufacturers but I think if it was revived in a proper camera on a large scale, it could prove interesting. (Assuming equal technological breakthroughs are applied to it as CMOS type sensors have.)

  • Ant

    I don’t know. Anything is possible, but the Thailand disaster seems the most likely explanation. Nikon reps are talking with retailers every day about what their customers really want and need, so they should know whether ultra-high resolution or ultra-high ISO is more important. They shouldn’t have to resort to PR fake-outs, which are never going to generate a genuine response anyway.

  • Bruno

    They are many revolutionary cameras possible, starting with a modular design around a sensor/lens mount module with several modules: 3D, different grips, power supply, card writing , viewfinder, headset display, video focus, communication, sound etc … all plugable in or around the sensor block.
    Same on software with possible plugins or different image processing .

    This is only what I’d like to have. Let me think 15 minutes more and I’ll have other dreams 🙂

    • Roger

      that’s not gonna happen. modular has died some 20 years ago.

    • Jesus_sti

      But Red come back with it ….

    • pabs

      Don’t forget the bottle opener in the battery store and the all-purpose remote controller for your television. i would also like to see an option for a garage door opener.

  • Tom

    New Nikon D800 36MP sensor and 720p video 😀 time to switch to Canon.

  • InfraRed

    I’m getting tired of rumors. Tsunami in Japan, flooding in Thailand: these are facts that can substantiate significant delay and I feel bad for Nikon (that’s a lot in one year!) but I’m getting seriously bored to read speculations on what’s coming up “soon”.

    I used to visit this site once a day; I’m now checking once a week at best and most of what i see has very limited value (no offence, Peter: you deal with what what you get from your sources). I’m signing off for some time.

  • Can t wait to see the next gen full frame from Nikon, what ever model comes first…can see myself getting the d3s if the price drop when the d4 comes out, been inlove with the d700 and fast primes, the 12mp on the big sensor really make a different, not only in high iso shooting, but i can shoot in slow shutter speed and getting away with sharp images (hence retaining low iso for image quality) is pretty amazing (can t do that with the high pixel density of the d7000).

    • Robin

      Go ahead and knock yourself out buying second hands, when the new revolutionary FX comes out all that sharp/low iso thingamajic will dim in comparison. From the sound of it, the world is full of people like you. You just wait, my pictures will be soooo AA removed sharp, almost three dimensional and life like.

      I remember people going all gaga on D90, oh I don’t need anything else for the rest of my life and whatnot, and then D7000 came out, now nobody cares a hoot about D90. It will hardly fetch you 400 bucks if you try to sell it. D700 is 98% down that road already.

  • Where’s my…

    Nikon execs are just scared to release D800, fearing that it will have similar impact to their own pro market as D700, that was a bit too good, a bit too early and at a bit too low price point. With 36MP and new electronics it will immediately obsolete D3x for which Nikon doesn’t yet have an upgrade path. To overcome this fear, Nikon needs to be able to dilute the D800 launch by announcing it either together with or not too soon before, D4 with same sensor but a bit bigger and more everything and D4h with 18MP or so but better low light performance for the D3s using, sports/natural light shooters. D800 is side tracked until the top of the range gets their act together.

    While products like D700 that really hit the sweet spot are essential to staying competitive in the marketplace, corporations tend to have much better visibility to how many of their highest margin, top of the range products less _they_ sell because of them, than how many customers of competing brands will switch over for the killer product.

    • jg

      I can’t imagine why Nikon would introduce the D800 before the D4. Assuming the premise, that the D700 did cannabilize some D3 sales, is correct, it makes zero sense to release the D800 first.

      • Alex

        Unless the D800 and the D4 start to deviate from each other. The D700 and D3 were a first for Nikon, so there is currently no trend from the Nikon Fx line except the 12MP sensor. They can do whatever they want with the line since people can’t really make a definite prediction because there is no history to make any predictions on. I just hope that Nikon doesn’t handicap their D700 like Canon did to the 5D mk2 in terms of features (AF, metering, etc.)

        • Roger


  • BornOptimist

    I think the revolutionary element in this camera will be the new AF-module.
    It will be on-sensor phase af+contrast af (like Nikon 1) and the traditional off sensor phase af. With the Expeed3 engine, this could have frame rates >>10 fps with af and metering. With the combined on-sensor and off-sensor phase af it will have the best of both worlds – very good accuracy and good low light capability.

    • FM2Fan

      agree – the focus technology in the 1 cams is the key feature. Nikon must feel threatened by the Sony price tags – they need really good arguments to be 2-4 times more expensive than the a77

    • Jesus_sti

      Do you know that … we are talking about Dslr and nobody want a semi-translusive mirror…..

  • paf

    “Several sources are telling me that the next full frame camera from Nikon will be revolutionary.”

    Yep… the word revolutionary as used by Nikon is wearing out on me…

    unless the D800 will come with a built in cappuccino maker I can’t see how it can be revolutionary.

    It’s sad (and bit frustrating for me) that Nikon is losing its charm in my book

    blah blah blah… revolutionary my coolpix a##

    • maybe you can send sms’ with it. That would be the first full frame with that capability

    • Roger

      D800 will not be revolutionary.

  • T.I.M

    When the F801/N8008 came out it was a “revolutionary” camera, the first real and efficient Nikon autofocus camera.

    It was so popular that there was a 6 months minimum delay to get one.

    If there was no tsunami and flooding I’m sure the D800 would already be on the stores’ shelves.

    The D800 is READY but not in sufficient quantity for a worldwide Xmas sale release .

    I understand what Nikon is going through but we already have Nikon cameras, Nikon lenses, Nikon accessories, we are CUSTOMERS and we need to know what’s going on, it’s not possible for us to switch brand every 6 months.

    • goldaccess

      For the Xmas season it’s already way too late.

  • Worminator

    Since NR says the specs were multiple-confirmed, then they are real. That level of detail normally signals a formal release within a month. The camera is baked, ready, no way will they go back and change the hardware now.

    Though wasn’t the original story “no new FX cameras in 2011”? In other words, it’s quite possible that nothing was intended until January.

    Either it’s delayed until January, or it was always scheduled for January, but my bet is we don’t here anything official until next year.

  • Paul

    wake me up when its here!

    • T.I.M

      I’ll send you a picture of my D800 took with my D5100 !

  • I bought a D3s 2 months ago. I was soooo tired of waiting for a new FX body…

    If you are from New York feel free to share your thoughts here too:

  • I’m glad it’s delayed. Just bought a third D700 so maybe I’ll get some good use out of it before the new ship lands.

    Anyone who things switching to Canon will cure everything good luck. As one who made the jump from Canon (6 bodies & 22 pieces of L glass) I can tell you, 12 mp in sharp focus is way better than 21 mp of fuzzy photos any day of the week.

    • to-mas

      After year using 5dmkII I am glad to have 12mp but SHARP pictures from my new d700.

  • D

    This featured video is a pretty amateur and lame attempt at animation. Worse, it has no real point to make.

    Where did you get this?

  • broxibear

    Digital Camera Consumers are Willing to Pay More for Nikon…
    “Market Insight Corporation today reported that U.S. consumers are placing greater importance on “brand” for digital camera purchase decisions. Further, the maximum price that consumers are willing to pay for a digital camera is increasingly influenced by brand.”
    “those who prefer the Nikon brand are willing to pay the most, with Canon ranking second. Olympus, Panasonic, and Fujifilm are among those brands attracting shoppers with more moderate willingness to pay. The results may verify expectations that Nikon’s overall brand/price power is positively impacted by the presence of its “high end” line of cameras.”

    • Broxibear, as aways a great link – thanks!

  • uno

    Last time I checked, bhphoto doesn’t have any Nikon D7000 or better camera in stock, so how can we expect anything new? If they have delayed a new product, it must be due to the flood and nothing else. Announcing something when you know it can’t be delivered doesn’t make much sense and there have been D4 and D800 rumors for years already, so a few more months don’t matter.

    As for pixels, if people like the D7000 with 16 mp, why not like an FX with 36? It is the same pixel density. If you don’t want 36, just shoot it with the DX cropping. The only issue is noise level.

    • Jesus_sti

      Generally local dealer(if you’re not in NYC) have stock at the same price… they didn’t have the same amount of pro photographers so keep pro more more longer in stock

  • Don

    Revolutionary? Let’s hope so. Quite likely the D4 will be revolutionary or a least a very significant step forward. Hopefully, the D800 and D400 will be so also. In what ways? Likely the new Expeed processor will allow the camera to do things no Nikon has done before simply because it has more processing power. For example, in camera HDR combining 5 exposures from -2 exposure comp. to +2 exposure compensation. Or an HDR-lite mode which expands dynamic range by taking two shots (-1 exposure comp. and +1 exposure comp.) and then combining them into one image. Or face detection expanded to smile and anti-blink detection so the shutter isn’t tripped if someone is not smiling or has their eyes closed. Or better high ISO noise elimination. And many other things we have not thought about but will want to have when we see they can be done.

    • Alex

      I hope that there is no HDR mode, if I do HDR I would prefer to have complete control over the end result and not straight from camera. (Most of my HDR photos require masking and all sorts of other things that are user controlled), and I also hope that there is no anti-blink detection at least in the higher end cameras. (I would want my camera to take a picture as soon as I depress the shutter button) I would like to see a 100% VF in the new D800 though and in any future HDDSLR, I wonder if Nikon can actively change aperture while LV is active, or if they are limited by their mount or some other technical aspect to their LV. I’m hoping for more cross type AF points if not all cross type AF points, or potentially some double cross type AF points like Canon’s cameras (if there’s no current patent or something on this technology)

  • Tony

    I can’t wait, so I bought a D300s… booooo

    • BartyL

      You got yourself a very good camera. It will still be a good camera by the time its successor has been released long enough to have its first firware update / bug fix. Enjoy.

  • One More Thought

    By definition, a product is not revolutionary if we could all imagine what it was going to be.

    A truly revolutionary product surprises the market, and goes beyond what we can imagine.

    I can believe Nikon has a big surprise for all of us with their next FF. They did it with the D3, they will do it again. They came up big with the D7000…even the Nikon 1 series has a lot of cutting edge tech.

    So yes I can believe that Nikon will give us a revolution in their next FF camera.

  • Moth Flopwell

    As I stated before..I believe Peter’s knowledge of the Nikon D800 being 36mp…because I know Sony is going to supply the censor, because the new FX Sony A9x will have the same 36mp censor. I heard that from some Japanese Friends in Tokyo.

    The Nikon D4 will be 24MP, and will be supply also by Sony.

    It will be very soon, for the D800 and January for the D4.

  • Kurt Low

    Thanks Peter (NR) for the information.

  • big eater

    Your site is cutting into our productivity at work because there’s just too much news and too many excellent comments to keep track of.
    Do your part in the U.S. economic recovery by posting news ONLY after normal American business hours–5 p.m. Eastern Standard Time?
    Thank you
    America’s office workers…

  • Roger

    “Nikon saw that Canon announced a 18MP camera and decided that their 36MP is an overkill and pulled the plug. Less likely, but still possible.”

    No, not possible at all.

  • Bikinchris

    No offense folks, but people who keep switching camera brands because of the current release are foolish.
    Also, the Canon trolls keep saying Nikon doesn’t have a camera with more resolution than the 5D MKII. I guess you didn’t get the memo. The D3X has been out for a long time now. It also outclasses the 5d MKII in every single category except one.

    Which brings me to video. Yawn.
    If the New Nikon equals or beats the Canon in video performance, great, but unless it’s a better STILL camera than what we already have, I don’t care.
    I was talking to a video professional at a high school football game a while back and he was saying how much he hates his station issued Panasonic camera. It is a small footprint camera and ha says it a super pain in the butt to hold smoothly, since it doesn’t have anything to steady the camera agaisnt the body. Imaging trying to use a DSLR to do that!

    • Roger

      I cant possible agree more with everything you just said.

    • FM2Fan

      yep – D3X for stills is the benchmark to be surpassed. Something a bit less heavy and with more built-in capabilities for processing would help i.e. workflow partly in the cam i.e. take an image, pre-process and submit wireless … and control it over the air.

  • John Richardson

    Man. Every time I save my money for a new D-Whatever, and it doesn’t come out … I go out spend it on hookers and hash. Then I gotta save AGAIN and the cycle repeats.

    At least I am not switching to Canon like the QQ losers who worry more about gear then they do honing their craft. If your photos suck now, they are gonna suck when the new WHATEVER comes out and they are gonna suck with the new Canon you just wasted money on … and your cycle will repeat over and over and over again.

  • Avalo Combap

    Sheesh, you really know nothing! You have no credible data at all, do you? All you’re doing is to speculate on some obvious things, as if you had some insider info, while in reality, you know nothing more than the next guy. And there are people silly enough to believe this is a source of information, and you can sell that to get some money for banner ads! What a racket.

    I hope the people who come here realize you are a nobody and you are the last person a multibillion dollar Japanese corporation is going to share any advanced info with.

  • Jeth

    Maybe the 36 Mp spec is just for the D4x, and the D800 will be in the same range – 18/24 Mp – as the regular/high Iso D4 like the D700 is now…

  • Jeth

    In marketing terms, a really high-specs flagship – D4x with 36 Mp – would make sense, even if it’s not what most customers want – which is clearly a lower Mp count/higher Iso performance – this would be addressed by D4 and D800, in the 18/24 Mp range, and with better and faster AF, dual Expeed 3 processors, weather sealing, etc, for the D4.

    • Roger

      Most customers are clueless when it comes to what is possible. Trust Nikon to know better than average NR visitor.

  • getanalogue

    D 800 will be revolutionary? Same wording when Nikon announced V1.
    Imagine an FX sensor with 36 MP and the same functions of a V1. Wouldn’t that be revolutionary? And Nikon is currently just testing the acceptance of V1 in the market before the launch the new D 800.

  • kontrollausschuss

    If there will be a “revolution” soon it comes for sure with the D4 and not with the D800.
    If D800 will be “revolutionary” it will be announced for sure 1-2 years after the D4.

  • grif

    If it turns out to have 36 Mpix, pixel binning, on sensor AF, no aperture screw drive, 120 fps full-res video, 100 % ovf with auto switching to an evf and an on camera combined flash and video light that would be approaching revolutionary in my book.

    • Roger


  • Zen-Tao

    Nikon D800 is a fake. Jamming 36 mpx in a FF Sensor is a nonsense. Remove AA filter afterwards has no sense unless you would like to make psichodelic pictures from cebras.
    Etc, etc. NR srs someone is misguiding you.

    • goldaccess

      [ ] You have a clue
      [x] You don’t have a clue at all

      • Roger

        LOL spot on

        36mp in FF sensor is NOTHING. People have no clue what the real limit for megapixels is….

  • TheMAN

    People who’s crying about dynamic range and wanna switch to canon for video need to just buy a freakin red EPIC!

    I was an AC for that camera last week, dude it’s freakin sweet, the best video quality, and it shoots still, and it have 18 stop dynamic range!

    So stop crying!!! Lol

    I hope the D800 comes with 36mp, and ISO 50, and noise atleast like d700 or a stop better. 🙂
    This way I’ll be one step closer to my friend 50mp hassy! Lol

    PS I shoot commercial work, I don’t wanna buy a hassy yet, to much cost, and not practical to bring everywhere.

  • G

    I wonder if this next D800 camera will be revolutionary like the last round of Coolpix or revolutionary like the Nikon 1! 😛

    • Roger

      You are being sarcastic, but Nikon 1 in many ways is revolutionary.

  • Dweeb

    Why release your good stuff in a depression where the sales will be flat? Look at Apple this year — SFA. Or ask where is the Canon 5DIII. Companies are sitting on new product until consumers have money again. At least the 99% we hear about.

    • john s

      They’ll have a long wait then.

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