Nikon D850 is the 2017 camera of the year in Japan (by DC.Watch), should be in stock in early 2018


The Nikon D850 was selected as the best camera for 2017 by DC.Watch in Japan (reader's choice based on votes). Here is the break down:


The Nikon D850 was also the #1 selling camera in Japan for the months of September and October according to DC.Watch.

DC.Watch also reports that the Nikon D850 shortage will be resolved in early 2018.

In the US Adorama has already shipped D850 pre-orders placed on December 21st. I expect the camera to be in stock when the next shipment arrives.


Like: Nikon D850 Facebook Page | Join: Nikon D850 Facebook Group

Check D850 availability: B&H | Adorama | Amazon | BuyDig | Focus Camera | eBay | WEX | Jessops | Park Camera

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  • Jospeh Broham

    What happened in November?

    • 白大福

      Weather getting cold.

  • Proto

    They are nipping on Nikon’s heels. Nikon’s rear flank guard is Sony’s lens range limitation…

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Sony possibly will remove this obstacle in 2018, Nikon’s key year in 2018 to make sure they are still current and that Nikon 2 (2nd hand of mirrorless) is as successful as possible.

      • Jose

        I’m afraid to disagree with you but NIkon d 850 is a monster, none of its direct current competitor can beat it, Other new camera, of course it can but not today’s camera

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          agree 100% on this – its the best camera I ever shot and handle.

        • While the rear LCD is getting better, my friend’s Canon rear LCD still beats it in difficult lighting. Since I shoot RAW, this is not a problem as the post processed image is excellent. This has been an issue from many years.

      • PhilK

        I agree that Nikon would be very foolish to think their lens lineup will protect them from Sony competition. Sony is coming on fast, including in lenses.

        In addition to their formidable capabilities in electronics/sensors, marketing and logistics, another factor helping them is that they have been building and selling high-end professional imaging equipment (albeit in the video, not still photography segment) since at least the 1960s.

        Sony is a company that understands how to build for, market to and service the professional imaging user. This should not be underestimated, especially at a time when Nikon has been cutting back on professional services and general service options for customers.

        • JFI_Realm

          If I look back to tape deck, audio and of course walkman days Sony is really a horrible experience. It looks good but breaks easily and hardly fixable.
          I believe it’s a company philosophy to dump market that way and I don’t think it’s different in this camera market.
          If I have to switch brand. fuji is a more reliable brand than sony.
          (I do love my D850 but I swear this is not a biased oppinion and I do like Sony TVs 🙂 )

          • Wade Marks

            Yes, it’s the grass is always greener syndrome. People give too much credit to Sony.

            Sony has some innovative ideas, but as you note, their products aren’t the most reliable or user friendly.

            Sony has a long laundry list of their own problems and it’s easy to forget that if one just looks at Nikon.

            • Andrew

              I do not agree on this one as practically no one has owned more Sony products than I have. I have and still own many Sony large screen high-definition TVs, many Desktop computers, many Laptops and with not even a single problem. I have owned many Sony gaming consoles and only one had a problem after putting it to daily use (for years) for game playing and as a DVD player – no, not me, others mostly 🙂

              Sony equipment is absolutely reliable. And yes, I have owned Sony Camcorder, Professional Microphone, Walkman (many over the years), and ton loads of headphones. On the whole I rate Sony’s products as very reliable. I have never owned Sony cameras, only Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus, and bought a Canon to give out as a gift. Sony sells millions of hardware every year and it is impossible for any company not to experience the occasional manufacturing issue. So Sony gets my vote 😉

            • PhilK

              Sony over the years has made a dizzying array of products. Attempting to categorize everything they have ever made as “not the most reliable or user friendly” is absurd and inaccurate to say the least. I’ve owned many of them that were trailblazers in their field. (Though nowadays Sony like most Japanese companies has many more competitors from companies based in South Korea, China, Taiwan, etc., that didn’t exist for the most part until 10-20 years ago, even 5 years ago when it comes to items like smartphones)

          • Roger S

            My experience with Sony consumer audio products was very similar.

          • PhilK

            I disagree and I was in the electronics retail business around the time the first headphone portable music players were introduced and with those and other products Sony was oftentimes the leader of the industry.

            As for planned obsolescence, I don’t think they were substantially worse than their competitors in that regard.

            Their expertise in selling to the pro video market may not transfer directly to still cameras because they appear to have placed those under the ‘consumer product’ part of the company, not the pro part. But unlike many other companies, the pro part is a large, longstanding and well-developed part of the company.

            • marymig

              Apple is the emperor of planned obsolescence…and the standard to compare to.

          • CyGone

            I remember paying 250. For the first Sony Walkman. I love their Bravia HD Monitors and have several thru-out my home. But I would buy Fuji long before any Sony Camera. I own the Nikon D850, D810 etc and Fuji.

        • Gaonkar

          Sony has pathetic service. Its more of use n throw category. No resale value for its products.

          • PhilK

            What I was referring-to earlier was their professional video products, which are very highly regarded.

            Tho it seems that their still cameras are treated as “consumer” products, and their service reputation in that area these days is a different matter. Perhaps at some point Sony will change that thinking at least for their top models like the A9.

          • PhilK

            Making silly blanket statements like “no resale value for its products” doesn’t help your credibility in this matter.

            People have pointed out the issues with Sony service, and my response to that is that I was referring to Sony pro products, which is a separate division of the company. It appears that still cameras at this point are still under the “consumer” division of Sony, so they probably don’t directly benefit from the pro division service, but that isn’t necessarily going to always be the case for the higher-end models.

            My main point is that Sony has a longstanding presence and reputation in the pro imaging market, which sets them apart from many other competitors and wannabe competitors in the photography field. (Even if, at present, their still cameras are treated as part of the “non-pro” division.)

        • Jacob Smith

          Not sure how old you are but during the 80s and 90s Sony did a lousy job competing by trying to develop there own standards against what was established. Anyone remember Betamax.

          • Allen_Wentz

            PhilK referenced _professional_ products not consumer products. Like the video cameras professionals used during the 80s and 90s.

          • Andrew

            The established VHS standard was inferior to Sony’s Betamax technology. It was the same with Microsoft Windows 3.1 and especially the GPF (General Protection Fault) error prone Windows 85 which were inferior to IBM OS2 operating system. Fortunately, Sony won the Blu-ray Disc war against Toshiba’s inferior HD-DVD technology.

            • PhilK

              As I replied to Jacob Smith, he has no idea what he is talking about. Betamax was the FIRST home VCR ever.

              Sony also had to go through very expensive litigation from a Hollywood studio over the new practice of “timeshifting” television programs with a VCR for later viewing. This went all the way to the US Supreme Court and established the legal foundation that allowed the widespread usage of VCRs for this practice of “timeshifting” television programs. You can all thank Sony for all the years you did that, on those lousy VHS VCRs. 😉

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.

          • PhilK

            I was in the consumer electronics business in those years. I don’t think Sony deserves any criticism for Betamax, it was the pioneer of the whole category of home VCRs, way before the stuff you claim was “established”. You need to review the history.

          • marymig

            But it was technically superior to VHS…

        • TheName

          Too many asterisks in their Adverts as Thom has spoken about. Sony knows how to throw money at, and appeal to the greed of the electronic stores and their employees. Much of Sony’s traction is not organic or based on superior performance, it’s based on how much money they throw around to the industry insiders. Do not be fooled by this Paper Tiger. If they turned off the flow of money, much of their momentum would go away. Fujifilm have a more complete lens system as well as better design and execution for photography. As for Video, there lies the problem for Fujifilm.

          • Andrew

            Sony has done well in the camera market and we should give them credit for it. But that may be short lived when Nikon releases their Mirrorless camera in 2018.

          • MA

            Paper tiger??? All of your statements are silly and baseless with regards to Sony. Any facts or support for your assertions? As for Fuji, they use Sony sensors and without Sony, Fuju doesn’t exist… therein lies the problem for Fujifilm…

            • TheName

              There are other sensor fabs available. It is unfortunate that Sony Sensor keeps purchasing the fabs that Nikon and others have used. If the rumors of Nikon using Tower Semiconductor are true, it is a wise move on Nikon’s part. As far as FujiFilm, what makes you so sure their survival is based on Sony’s charity, it’s an arrogant statement. FujiFilm has had a long history of Digital, long before Sony purchased Konica/Minolta. Remember who the OEM for Hasselblad’s H Camera are. It is FujiFilm, a very capable and sound manufacturer.

            • Mike A

              I’m not really into this stuff, I just thought the paper tiger statement was way over the top… If you look at the strength of Sony vs Fuji, look at their latest financial disclosures. Sony dwarfs Fuji economically. Sony has a long history as being Japan’s and the world’s premier electronics manufacturer. Fuji was always just a film company and that’s about it. Fuji may be a capable, but they get lost in the rounding compared to the size & strength of Sony.

            • TheName

              Largest, yes. Premier…not so much. You need to separate Sony camera from Sony Sensor. The designs that other Camera MFG bring to Sony for fabrication is not a testament to Sony’s prowess electronics, just that their scales of economy have been well suited for production. As Sony devours other fabs, this would be a wake up call to Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Olympus and others to look elsewhere for sensors. Before the collective jump down my throut, Canon does not make sensors for their inexpensive power shot/elph cameras.

        • CyGone

          Sony will cut you loose so fast……

      • Carlos Rosa

        Since Nikon D90, D700, D300, they always had the best still camera. Look at D7200, D750, D500 (a dream camera) and now the best ever still camera, Nikon D850. Sure Sony has some cool features, but the ergonomics of their cameras are horrible, a nightmare and lenses, give me a break, they don’t have quality neither good options and costs way more. That’s what Sony is doing, they cut a bit on the price of the body, to looks like they have cheaper cameras with great quality, but they bite you with the lenses and accessories, so at the end people pay way more. Very clever, but my vote goes to Nikon. Nikon has 100 years of experience they continue to show how a good camera looks like, they just need to improve a bit on the video aspect. Canon has been a fiasco latelly and 6D MKII show how badly they disrespect it’s public. They released a 5 years old technology camera with a really nice flip screen and great Dual Pixel Autofocus system, but the rest, give me a break, what a junk with extremely high price. Dynamic Range is worst than the 5 years old 6D, autofocus is a fiasco downgrade from the 80D, all crumpled in the middle, image quality it’s not in par with any camera from the last 3 years or so, I mean it’s a “new” very old camera. Can anyone show me so innovative really good product from Canon that’s in par with Nikon? I would love to see a Fuji Full Frame, Fuji is the only one that could beat Nikon, Sony, sure, they have some great innovations, but I don’t think they can beat Nikon. People talk about mirrorless camera, they small, they are “light”, bla bla bla bla, but hey, get a Nikon D500 in your hands, it’s a dream and when the D500 combined with lenses and the Sony with lenses, they about the same weight, they look hevier because their are noticible bigger, but they are not, and D500 it’s so comfy, one can handle for long period, Sony in the other hand will hurt your hands, they are too small the be handle for long period and the ergonomics are horrible.

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          excellent post

    • koenshaku

      and ergonomics the glass will be just has heavy as any other full frame DSLR if not heavier which would be a probably be a carpal tunnel syndrome nightmare for me personally. I have large hands and most medium range lens feel perfect on DSLR bodies in my opinion. Fuji has the right idea going APS-C to mate lenses better with smaller body of a mirrorless system.

    • Ed D Lee

      I was lucky to get D850 and got a7rIII – I had a7r, a7rII…after using both D850 still gets my vote even though I’ve been a long fan of Sony a7 series.

    • Wade Marks

      For overall user experience, Sony cannot compete with Nikon. Not even close.

      As others have pointed out, look at the reaction of D850 owners: it’s all love. D850 owners are all extremely pleased with the product and are having a great experience.

      Sony…well, I’m sorry but I just don’t see that. When Nikon does a camera right, people love it. When Sony does something notable, it still falls short of the mark and sure people buy it and use it, but you don’t have the same type of customer satisfaction.

      • 白大福

        I hope Nikon do something to fix their problem of front and back focus on zoom lenses.

        • PhilK

          If Nikon considers that matter important, the nice thing is that it could probably easily be addressed with a fairly straightforward update to their AF tuning utility. (Just add additional tuning points at different focal lengths for each lens)

          It may be a challenge to address optically/mechanically when the AF sensor is separate from the imaging sensor and the mirror is flopping up/down 10 times a second..

          • 白大福

            I hope Nikon will include 2 or 3 points for the AF adjust if possible. Newer model in Canon has 2 for zoom lenses. Manual adjusting about AF could a big turn away for people using zoom, especially with mirrorless around with higher accurate. I hope Nikon will bring in a FF mirrorless with EVF, or even with hybrid.

            • Proto

              Yes, effective AF tuning across the entire focal zoom is not straight forward. Nikon Service center puts the lens or body on a table and calibrates.via multiple steps – that may not be easy to offer in the dslr body itself.

            • 白大福

              Yes, plus focusing distance needs to be considered too, like the 24-70E in closer subject. I hope one day they will be able to achieve the accurate AF similar in liveview with normal AF reliability.

        • Jacob Smith

          A little short sighted if you think Nikon is the only one with this problem. This is an industry problem by any company that makes lenses.

          • 白大福

            Short sighted indeed if I think so, luckily I am not. I know this affect every brand of DSLR. I only addressed Nikon because it is the only brand I am considering for my first FF ATM. Sony as well, but I will put my bet in Nikon if asked camera that can work for years without babysitting it.

        • marymig

          Haven’t had that problem with either Nikkor or Tamron Zoom.

      • You make a valid point. During the years Nikon did not have a successor to the D300, I used an A77II that produced 24 MP images at 12 FPS and what saw in the viewfinder was exactly what you got in the capture. But when Nikon introduced the D500, I jumped on it (even though it had lesser specification), mostly because I have a lot of Nikon mount lenses.

    • bobgrant

      It seems that many hobbyists are not aware of the negative reception to Sony handling among professionals. I can’t stand the way the new III handles and it’s even worse with larges lenses. This alone makes the D850 a superior tool on jobs. Nikon has to come out with a competitive mirrorless, but they must also get the handling right. That won’t be easy because it’s the larger size of the pro DSLRs that’s making them so good. Smaller is not always better.

      • marymig

        It with long lenses….

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        agree with you on that putting medium to long lenses on a small body seems top heavy and the Sony mirrorless cameras A7 / A9 do not feel comfortable for my mitts and holding it for long time.

        As an Aps set of lens and the A5000 – A6500 size of body the setup and ergonomics feel ok although Sony’s are great cameras there’s something about the spot on metering and the silky sort of images I get out from Nikon and lifelike that is hard to explain

  • Photobug

    This does not surprise me at all. It’s a great camera.

  • bobgrant

    The D850 is the best camera I’ve ever used. The Sony A9III is nearly as good, but if you’re a pro shooter you likely already know that the Sony is not easy on the hands, especially with big lenses. I’m not sure how Nikon will do better because the larger size of the D850 is a KEY reason why it’s so easy to hold. If I was a heavy traveling pro, I might get the Sony for the smaller size, but the Nikon is otherwise the king for today.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Nikon may bring out an A6300 Aps like mirrorless and A7 / A9 (FF) as part of their Nikon 2 system in 2018+. Hope they still make DSLR styled bodies in their mirrorless offerings as well – I prefer the size of a DSLR in my hands.

      • They will for a very long time

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          Thanks Pete – hope that they can either do a hybrid / full mirrorless camera styled in a DSLR body – I love the feel and balance of my D500 / D850 + corresponding lenses in my hand, hard to explain it just feels right in my hand.

          • Gaonkar

            At the EOD quality of images matter, it doesn’t matter whether they were taken by Mirror less or with mirror gear.

      • Jacob Smith

        There will be a transitional phase from DSLR to mirrorless but that will take a long time.

    • Connor

      Having come from a A7RII to the D850 I have to agree I find the Nikon far more comfortable for a long day of shooting

      • bobgrant

        Yup…and don’t get me wrong. The Sony is really just as good. I prefer the OVF, better LCD and a few other things about the Nikon, but the Sony has some neat tricks. Both are great, but I have to stick with the one that handles best. Nikon really got the grip dead-right on the D850. Even without the grip it handles well.

        • Connor

          Yeah I won’t exclude the Sony it has some great tech and features. But the Nikon certainly feels better in the Hand no matter what glass I mount on it.

          The Sony never quite felt right unless you had a small prime lens on it. but no matter which one someone picked up you certainly wouldn’t complain about the images you’d get out of either one

      • Oh wow, we have a Sony -> Nikon switch 🙂

        • Connor

          After dealing with Sony camera repair services in the UK I won’t be back to Sony land anytime soon 🙂

          Having said that as sweet as my D850 is and if it’s my camera for the next few years I can’t complain. But I do hope we see a Nikon mirrorless next year

    • I agree

    • Fly Moon

      What’s Sony A9III?

    • Per Kristoffersson

      A9iii? A99ii pretty much matches the specs of the d850 and has good ergonomics, so obvious choice for anyone with a bunch of Sony/Minolta glass. A9 doesn’t really match in resolution but eclipses the D850 in some other areas, but maybe you’re thinking of the A7Riii? Close match in specs but if you’re invested in Nikon/canon/Minolta mount lenses there’s little reason to look closer unless you have very specific needs

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Hopefully Nikon if they are going to mirrorless will offer a camera body in same sort of styling of DSLR (without the mirror), size and feel as the D500/D850 – it feels me like a glove and putting long lens feels perfect balance compared to small body as the A7/A9

  • Aldo

    No d750? I think it’s still the best FF camera you can get for 1k used/gray

    • Eledeuh

      Well.. it didn’t come out in 2017 for one.

      And as far as I can see, there is no mention of the criteria used, it’s just a popularity vote. And as far as “best camera all around” is concerned, it would be frankly hard to go for a D750 over a D850.

  • Shaul Abramovich

    Everyone talks about the D850 shortage but nothing is said about the MB-D18 non-existent grip. I have been waiting for three months and non have been shipped to B&H and to Amazon. Is this real???

    • bobgrant

      I just got the 3rd party grip from Mcoplus on Amazon for 65 dollars shipped. It’s perfect and feels no different than my D810 OEM grip. I also have 3rd party on my D800. I used to buy OEM and then add a 3rd party version for backup and for spare power, but the lesson is OEM is a waste of money. Nikon gave me a great camera with the D850, but they blew it with a 400 dollar grip you can’t even get.

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        and charging £350 pounds at the moment for the D5 charger MH-26a

        • marymig

          Much cheaper from third parties and just as good.

          • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

            Thanks Marymig – can I’d be a bit nosey and have you got a third party grip and charger for D850 and if so – which one ?. Would like to save money but not fry my D850 at same time.

      • Shaul Abramovich

        True, I went with a 3rd party grip for my D810 but it had its problems. I figured I’ll go with the real McCoy grip, but I get a third party battery and charger for peanuts. The only problem is that the MD-D18 is no where to be found.

      • Riker Dolay

        Does the 3rd party grip give you 9 fps with the battery adapter Bl-6 out of interest?

    • Hans J

      I got the grip 2 weeks after ordering it from Adorama.

      • Roger S

        Based on your avatar, they were afraid not to send you one!

    • I got mine, but it took three months. And then Nikon is sold out of the battery charger for the D5 batteries so that is on backorder. Oh well, at least I have the grip……

      Also, I am hoping to get my RRS L Plate in a week or two. I ordered that three months ago. Peter, I wonder if this collaborates that the D850 has sold well?????

    • TheName

      They have been shipping, but they too have back orders.

    • marymig

      Got mine at BestBuy in a matter of days back in early November.

  • ZoetMB

    Isn’t a “fan vote” kind of a meaningless poll? People who liked Nikon voted for the D850. People who liked Sony voted for that. It’s not really representative of anything other than how active the fan base was on that particular site. I’m sure people who didn’t own either camera voted. So what’s the point?

    • Claude Mayonnaise

      It’s nice to cheer for the home team but we are at the point where all cameras made today are pretty damn sweet. I Never could have imagined the capabilities we are lucky enough to have today back when I bought my first film camera in high school.

      • fanboy fagz

        “but we are at the point where all cameras made today are pretty damn sweet. ”

        except the canon 6d mk2

    • Vinnypimages

      There are more Canon fans than Sony and Nikon combined so I don’t think this is just a Fan vote.

      • Andrew

        Canon fans have not been too happy with Canon lately it seems 😉

        • But Canon is doing pretty good – hard to understand for me.

          • Andrew

            TheCameraStoreTV review “Canon 6D Mark II Hands-On Field Test” (14:30 minutes) cast a long shadow on this camera on three fronts – image quality, video, and dynamic range. And surprisingly, Tony Northrup, a bellwether Canon pundit has cooled to Canon lately.

            Tony’s “Canon 6D Mark II Review” (9:21 minutes) dogged the dynamic range and focus tracking; and also the fact that the focusing points are all clustered in the middle, and that it cannot shoot 4K video as would be expected of a $2,000 camera introduced in 2017! It does not end there, have we not heard many complaints of a notable competitor’s $1,250 camera having a single memory card slot? Well, the $2,000 Canon 6D Mark II is in good company, but at a much higher professional pricepoint 😉

            For all these reasons and more, many Canon users are not happy and consider this camera a major step backward, Canon sales notwithstanding. And what was Tony’s recommendation? Sell your Canon gear, a reviewer with 862K subscribers. That should be cause for concern.

            • But they are gaining market share…

            • Andrew

              It’s called momentum and age-old clever marketing. But keep in mind that many consumers are influenced by social media and professional pundits. A lot of purchases are based upon recommendations. And the technical specifications and performance of these cameras are quite relevant to consumers. So any major misstep by Canon especially from a publicity standpoint does not help its cause.

              The fact that prominent reviewers on YouTube and on blogging sites are likely making quite an impact on camera sales is something that should not be ignored. Canon’s previous sales growth was in no small part due to recommendations made by photojournalists such as Tony Northrop and missed opportunities by Nikon. And let us not forget that Nikon has withdrawn an important camera series such as its DL line and has practically only the single Nikon 1 J5 Mirrorless camera on the market which no doubt contributes to its less than stellar sales performance. But this situation will not last.

            • TheName

              In Japan Canon are already #2 in Mirrorless, Sony is in 3rd place.

            • I predict Canon will be #1 in mirrorless in 2018 after they release their “serious” mirrorless camera.

            • marymig

              Let’s revisit at the end of 2018…

            • PhilK

              In part because what matters to the average buyer is oftentimes very different than what equipment geeks like us care about.

              As it was in the days when I sold hi-fi equipment, most of it was better than most people needed, wanted or could tell the difference between, so (at least for mass-market products) it came down to things like hype, reputation, referrals from trusted parties, what the guy next to you at the theme park was using, advertising/marketing, etc etc etc.

            • marymig

              Focus tracking is abysmal for sure.

          • marymig

            Ignorance 🙂

  • surgeon67

    Genuine question: The 850 backlog is almost clear (but not quite), and I just saw a post on FM saying that B&H has A7Riii in stock.
    So that means either 1) The A7Riii has nowhere near the demand that the 850 has, or 2) Sony was a HELL of a lot better at meeting it.
    Any guesses?

    • both 1 and 2 are true

      • surgeon67

        True enough, those two options are not mutually exclusive

        • Based on the limited info I have I think Nikon sold more D850 cameras than a7r3. Obviously Nikon could not deliver and the D850 is still not available in the US which is not acceptable.

          • Wade Marks

            It’s just my impression, but it seems that neither the Sony A7r3 nor the A9 generated any type of super sales. Sure they got attention, and a good amount of positive reviews, but neither seemed to really take off.

            Also my impression, but it seems to me that Sony has kind of plateaued; they’ve gotten a certain amount of the market, but that’s it. The bloom is off the rose, so to speak. They have their fans, but people also know their weaknesses, and I bet most of their sales are to existing owners.

            I also bet that once Nikon and Canon enter FF mirrorless, that Sony will lose market share. For all of the hype around Sony, they still have extremely poor handling and ergonomics, and still seem more like a toy and at most a gadget, rather than a camera.

            • Yes, all this is going on without Nikon and Canon having a “real” mirrorless camera, so let’s wait and see.

            • Allen_Wentz

              Yup. I have no particular personal interest in Nikon mirrorless but really want the products to drop so that our choices are defined.

            • PhilK

              Sony may not be a superior all-round competitor at the moment, but they are coming on like a freight-train and consistently improving aspects that had been criticized in previous models. (One of the key reasons the A7RIII got great reviews too: they more or less eliminated several of the top complaints about its predecessor: battery-life, single memory card slot, sluggish operation – and improved a bunch of others.

              I hope Nikon keeps watching their back and doing what they do best – camera engineering – then they just need to get some marketing muscle and improve their horrible software accessories. 😉

            • A. F.O.

              Agree!! (I would sum Fuji to that equation).

            • Thom Hogan

              And yet they didn’t address many of the major complaints, particularly ergonomic ones. I spent all day yesterday with the A7R3 shooting, and I can list so many things that were complained about in previous models that still generate complaint that it’s clear that Sony’s “listening” is not very good.

            • Wade Marks

              And that’s one major problem with Sony: their user experience is horrible. And no matter how advanced a piece of technology is, if people don’t enjoy using it, then it will have a limited market.

              And this has been a problem with Sony for a very long time, and not just with their cameras. It seems to be in the company DNA: they do not understand how to make an advanced tech product user friendly.

            • Allen_Wentz

              I have to agree. I played with a Sony today for an hour or two and came away saying ewww…

            • Nikkor300f4VR

              Sony is only listening of the sound of incoming cash..
              Therefore they always promise all the stars from the sky, but only delivers half of the promise with great disappointments..

            • PhilK

              Actually according to reviews I read (eg DPR), ergonomics were significantly improved in the version 3 over the version 2.

              No, they aren’t going to balloon the size up to the size of a D850 if that’s what you were hoping for, but that’s not exactly a surprise, either. They still have a substantial following that likes those models for the compactness of the body, regardless whether it may be non-ideal for some reasons and use-cases.

              Of course, if the standard of “listening” is based on how Nikon historically “listens”, Sony looks pretty good. 😉

              Nikon fanboys/girls aren’t doing Nikon any favors by failing to criticize where it’s due. Sniping at fast-approaching competitors like Sony for not having perfect products will be a short-lived indulgence after they overtake Nikon’s sales.

            • Allen_Wentz

              You reference “balloon the size up to the size of a D850” like that was a bad thing. For some of us (me), the D850 is on the small side. I am waiting to see D5s/x to decide D850 versus D5s/x.

            • PhilK

              I specifically did not make a value judgement about it (one key reason I continue to be a Nikon user/fan is because of their ergonomic choices), I simply pointed-out that there is a large Sony following that buys their E-series cameras specifically for the body size. (Which has its uses, eg for traveling with a small lens, but we all know it’s non-ideal for long ‘pro’ lenses and so on, for most people)

            • Thom Hogan

              Wow. You read reviews written within a month of the product being released, and from people who were at a company-sponsored shoot? ;~)

              Look, I write reviews. Ones based upon actually using the darned cameras in production after purchasing them myself. I’m currently carrying an A7R3. I’ll eventually have a full review, but the only real “ergonomic” change on the A7R3 over the 2 is the addition of the focus thumbstick. That thumbstick is dumb compared to the Nikon thumbsticks. Better than no thumbstick. Not as good as a fully programmable one that can control two things at once. And then we have to debate whether it’s in the right position.

              I’m going to stick with what I wrote about A7R3 versus D850 in terms of ergonomics. One’s really good, the other has a ways to go to equal the really good one.

            • Adam Brown

              The thumbstick on the A7riii can control 2 things at once — You can program a center push of the thumb stick for numerous functions including a customized AF-on. (I programmed mine to become a “wide AF-on” so that I can instantly go from single point shooting (and use the thumbstick to move the AF point) to wide area AF shooting (with a thumb press). And the location of it falls very naturally for my thumb.
              -The A7riii grip is also a bit deeper than the A7rii.
              -They enlarged the buttons slightly.
              -They re-positioned the movie record button to a much better location
              -they got rid of the horrible AF/MF/EL toggle and added separate AEL and AF-On buttons in positions easy to reach with thumb.
              -The control wheel is a bit larger and more responsive

              Now, I’m not going to claim that the A7r3 ergonomics are equal or superior to the D850. But it’s pretty clear that Sony has many MANY ergonomic improvements with each generation.
              At this point, I think it largely comes down to hand size. If you have very large hands and fingers, I can see some discomfort with the A7riii body. But if you have smaller hands, I can actually see it being more comfortable than a big dSLR.

            • MA

              I also think an important point to make here is that Sony has made all this progress in an amazingly short period of time. It’s taken Nikon a generation to get the D850 to this ergonomic point.

              As for which is better – I bought for other reasons the A7RIII over the D850. I went with the A7RIII for several reasons. First – it’s easier to get a good photo (stabilized sensor and on sensor focusing at all times), Second – Sadly, Glass. I’m confident Sony will put out more quality glass year over year than will Nikon. Heck who knows what Nikon will be doing with the F mount lenses or with mirrorless, etc going forward??? and Third – The D850 still isn’t available (announced September)
              which is typical Nikon – shooting themselves in the foot again…

            • Adam Brown

              I also amazingly went with the a7riii partially due to glass + IBIS. Not that there is anything wrong with Nikon glass.
              But with my D750, I was shooting several Tamron lenses to get stabilization (24-70/2.8, 45/1.8 and 85/1.8).
              Moving to Sony, I was essentially able to upgrade several lenses in ways important to me:
              Sony 12-24: no real equivalent in f-mount. There is the 14-24, but much heavier, not as wide, and not stabilized.
              I had been using the Irix 11mm, and I liked it. But I was able to move to an even smaller lens that has autofocus and the benefit of IBIS.
              Sony 55/1.8 replacing Tamron 45/1.8– upgrade in IQ, and much smaller size.
              Sony 85/1.8 replacing Tamron 85/1.8– mostly lateral in IQ but no longer need to worry about the Tamron focus shift issues. And a major reduction in weight.

              Meanwhile, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the Sony 24-105– better than several 2.8 zooms I’ve used over the years.

              So there really isn’t anything wrong with Nikon glass. But smaller F-mount lenses tend not to have any stabilization. To get stabilized f-mount lenses, I need to use larger lenses than I would for Sony. Meanwhile, Sony has some offerings that fit my style better than Nikon offerings.

              I’m a bit surprised myself at how quickly Sony managed to catch up in glass. Sure, there are still a few gaps.. but not many, and not that would affect that many photographers.

            • Mike A

              Looking forward to the FE 400 f/2.8 in 2018

            • Adam Brown

              That will be way out of my budget. I’d love for Sony to duplicate the Nikon 300/4 pf.

            • You are going to wait a very long time until Sony get the number of lenses Nikon has.

            • TheName

              Not really, Sony purchased the Number 3 camera maker, Konica/Minolta along with all of their R&D. I believe Minolta is still their main designer. Even the naming scheme is still Minolta’s.

            • marymig

              I have small hands…the Nikon D850 is definitely preferable.

            • PhilK

              I read reviews from – among others – publications that have a history of doing a good and thorough job of reviewing products, and which are read by millions of people. Sorry if that offends you. 😛

              That said, I do agree that DPR in particular seems a tiny bit Sony fanboy’ish, but that doesn’t automatically make their reviews completely worthless to me, nor should it.

              Re: “the only change is the thumbstick” – huh? Apparently they also increased the depth of the grip, improved the responsiveness of the menus, improved the performance of the UI/controls while the camera is writing to the memory card(s), etc etc.

            • marymig

              Sony has a company history of paying under the table for reviews…

            • TheName

              If you pick up an A9/A7rIII with a large lens, and your knuckles are pressed against the lens, then no, the ergonomics have not been improved. Now, shoot in the cold with gloves and the Sony’s are very difficult to use all together.

            • PhilK

              If it were only the case that everyone in the world that could or would or have already bought one of those Sonys primarily did so to shoot with giant teles.

              Their sales figures already make it clear that lots and lots of people don’t really care so much about that. (Even if you or I do)

              Smugly sniping at the Sony products from the peanut-gallery over issues like that while Sony continuously eats into Nikon’s market-share in the process might feel good for a minute but it certainly won’t contribute to stemming Nikon’s market losses especially if Nikon employees are doing it.

              Nikon needs to pay attention to what people are actually buying these days unless they want to accelerate their march to market insignificance.

            • TheName

              They are in good company!

            • Thom Hogan

              And where did you get this “impression” from? Data doesn’t seem to show that (at least for the A7R3).

            • Not sure what your data is Thom, but I was also told by multiple stores that the D850 outsold the a7r3. by a big margin.

            • TheName

              At least 5 D850 to 1 a7riii. Both are still in a back order situation, but Nikon has shipping more bodies than Sony and for a couple more months at that. Still more orders/demand on the books for the Nikon. Just put an A7rIII in your hands with the 80-400 or 70-200 2.8 and you will see how poor the ergonomics are. Too, the Sony camera build quality is just not there, nor are the lenses.

            • Adam Brown

              Well, Sony doesn’t have a 80-400… but I tried the A7riii with their 100-400.. and I have use the Nikon D750 with Nikon 80-400… I found the balance better with the Sony in my hands.
              As to lenses, I stuck with Nikon for several years, because of the glass. But then I switched to Sony, partially because, for what I shoot, Sony now has better glass than Nikon. (who has the best glass will be very specific to how one shoots.)

            • Allen_Wentz

              Sony has a decent 70-400m f/4-5.6.

            • Adam Brown

              Only in a-mount. We are discussing the a7riii— e-mount. They have the 100-400.

            • Yes, I was also told that the D850 outsold the a7r3 multiple times, at least in the stores I talked to (some of them major US chains).

            • MA

              Not to be too rude – But, what does that have to do with anything when a camera has been out of stock since it’s initial shipment and who knows when it will be shipping again and it was launched in September and it is Now 2018!?!?!?

            • I was responding to the previous 5:1 comment talking about Sony vs Nikon sales which may explain why the D850 is out of stock and the a7r3 is in stock.

            • TheName

              Out of stock because the worldwide demand is higher than production, not because the camera is not shipping.

            • Wade Marks

              I can go to B&H, Adorama and order an A7R3 today to be delivered tomorrow. I can’t do that with the D850; I still have to wait. Same with my local camera store; I can get the Sony immediately but not the D850.

              Now maybe one can say that Sony is that much more efficient at supplying for demand, but Sony is not that great at manufacturing logistics.

              Overall, the reaction for the Sony has been far more muted than for the D850. But as I noted, this is simply my impression, not backed up by hard data.

            • TheName

              Simple, more people want the Nikon D850.

            • Adam Brown

              Most sales of all advanced cameras are to existing owners. Of the “big 3” — I dare say that Sony is the one who is doing the best at attracting switchers. I don’t know anybody who switched in to Nikon to buy the D850 — all the buyers I see, previously owned the D8__, D7__ or D6__, etc. But I do know a quite a few people (including myself) who switch in to Sony for the A7riii.

              I don’t think we can make any comparison of actual sales. The Nikon D850 has been “sold out” more, but that doesn’t imply greater demand — it implies that Nikon is doing a poorer job at supply. Looking at the highly unscientific Amazon sales rankings — the D850 is #626 seller in the camera section, while the A7riii is #694. That would suggest they are fairly close.

              When Canon and Nikon enter the FF market, Sony probably will lose market share — That’s entirely natural, when facing more competition.

              But to what degree? And lose it to who?

              Canon has been gaining market share over the last couple of years… Sony has been gaining, and Nikon has been losing. So what will change when Canon and Nikon go full frame?

              We already know Canon can do solid mirrorless, but they haven’t applied it to full frame yet. But with Nikon? If they release a mediocre full frame camera with very few supporting lenses, then I don’t see them taking any market share away from anyone else. They may even continue to lose market share.
              On the other hand, if Nikon comes to market with a camera as good as the A9/A7riii and with a lens lineup equal to Sony and Canon — then sure, they will take market share away from Sony.

              Essentially… it’s much too early to speculate about what a non-existent product might do to the marketplace.

              And on a personal note — personally, I greatly prefer the handling, ergonomics, performance and control of my A7riii over my outgoing Nikon D850.

            • MA

              That’s one Huge Ass assumption that Nikon might come to market with a camera as good as an A9 – That’s not happening – Nikon doesn’t have the Stacked Sensor tech. Nor is it likely to produce a mirrorless camera anywhere near as good as the A7R III – have you checked out D850 live view AF lately? Nikon has a Long, Long way to go to suddenly jump into the mirrorless FF waters and compete with Sony state of the A9 & or A7R III…

            • TheName

              If you look at Nikon’s V3, they have the technology, Do not assume that their waiting is a sign of weakness. They may just be waiting for technology to catch up to their design.

            • TheName

              Not as many as you may think. As Sony have offered trade in programs, most have been Sony upgraders, not switchers. The Sony does not age gracefully either.

            • Adam Brown

              The growth of Sony market share over the last 5 years is solid evidence of switchers.

            • TheName

              Many Minolta A mount shooters, as far as Nikon and Canon, yes, but again, not as many as you think.

            • Adam Brown

              Well, I’m a switcher from Nikon and I know lots of switchers like me.

            • TheName

              A9 is a true sales flop. The A7rIII has had much higher demand. Many have returned or sold their A9 Camera for A7rIII instead.

            • Yes, I also saw several reports and videos online of people trading it their a9 for the a7r3.

            • TheName

              A9 sales are almost non exist. I suspect the price will change with a steep discount. They have overestimated the value proposition for this product.

    • TheName

      Sony did not ship as many cameras on the first wave as Nikon did. The D850 has had unprecedented demand. Sony being caught up is not surprising considering how much they were discounting the A7rII before they launched the III.

    • TheName

      Demand for Sony was much much lower. Nikon has shipped more product but the demand is unprecedented.

  • Hans J

    Loving my D850!

    • surgeon67

      Me too-so far not a single iota of buyer’s remorse (credit card statement notwithstanding of course).

  • Robert Isha

    i was such an anti sony guy. until i sed the a7rii. boy was i blown away my zeiss 135f2 on my d850 was pretty much useless without a tripod. with d810 i was shooting with my zeiss 100f2 with no problem since the d810 was much more forgiven for a handshake. with the d850 forget it. that green dot focus conformation on d850 is so sensitive. its nearly impossible to get it locked in. yes i know there is the focus peaking using live view. but try and hold d850 and lens using live view that extremely awkward.on the a7rii my zeiss 135 came alive. i get focus peaking in evf plus i get image stabilization. its a game changer. for me personally. i know my comment will get a lot of hate. i just wish nikon would’ve implemented all these live view features into the view finder

    • As long as you are not a troll, you won’t get hate. Peter’s troll detector is well tuned…….

      • A. F.O.

        🙂 indeed!

    • bobgrant

      If these mirrorless bodies had better handling, I’d buy one. There is no issue with hand shake on the D850. I already demonstrated this over at dpreview by posting my pics at 500mm at 1/20th sec. If you can’t get sharp shots, it’s not the camera. It’s your technique and you need to practice. As for manual focus, that was absolutely NOT the goal with a D850. You can do it with practice, but the D850 is a pro-style body with great handling and leading tech AF. The AF is the whole point here. It’s the main reason to upgrade from D800 and D810. While I’ve owned Zeiss lenses and liked them optically, there comes a point where the lack of AF has become plain stupid. And no Sigma is making some primes I actually prefer to Zeiss. The Zeiss legend is slowly dying against very determined designers out there and they had better wake up. It’s time to add AF.

      • Robert Isha

        trust me. its not me. on my d810 i used to get tag sharp images. with d850 its hit and miss. or maybe its just me. yes the majority would prefer af obviously. but i am not one of them . dont get me wrong. d850 is a monster. the touch screen hell the screen alone is the best ive seen in any dslr period. now for your complain about handling. yes they tend to be awkward. i haven’t had a problem handling it. and the grip will help. but this is a personal preference. as for zeiss making af lenses. well ive spoken to one of zeiss representative when henrys used to host a photography show. an he said to me. that they signed an agreement with Nikon and canon to not make any auto focus lenses. thats why they are making af lenses for sony and maybe couple for fuji. and he said they are working on negotiating new terms. and that was 8 years ago. so go figure. lol . ive tried the sigma 135 art. i had so much focusing problems. the camera will just lock and wont focus i had to turned on and off and it wasn’t even close to zeiss 135 apo im sorry but zeiss is zeiss

        • PhilK

          That’s a very strange agreement – the kind of thing that gets companies in hot water for market collusion in many jurisdictions. (Though it is not exactly unheard-of for camera reps at public shows to spew made-up nonsense, too)

          I also don’t see the upside for Zeiss on that sort of thing if it is in fact true, unless it has something to do with marketing lenses in Canon/Nikon mount without patent litigation or something. AFAIK all 3rd-party lenses for many of the top brands are designed without direct help from the original equipment manufacturers, they have to reverse-engineer everything. (Exceptions include the old Pentax/M42 screw mount, the Pentax K mount, and the 4/3 and M4/3 mounts which were designed from the beginning to be open standards)

          As for Nikon implementing features like focus-peaking in the viewfinder – that requires a completely different design of the optical system than a DSLR along with a variety of compromises that Nikon probably isn’t willing to make. (eg, battery life) So you will probably have to wait for the new Nikon mirrorless for such features. I’m personally 100% OK with that given the current tradeoffs. (And will give the new mirrorless due consideration too, depending on how well it suits my needs.)

          • Thom Hogan

            Almost certainly made up by the rep. There was that agreement between Nikon and Zeiss on the equipment division side that is now under contention again and has spilled over to the camera side. Were there an agreement as stated, it would have been terminated with Nikon’s recent suit against Zeiss.

            As for your contention about no design help from the third party lens makers, that would be wrong. Companies like Tamron have had design relationships with Sony (who partly owns Tamron) and Nikon (who doesn’t), for one. While technically there should be a firewall between such designs and the internal designs, I don’t think there is based upon my discussions with lens designers. So some lens makers have gotten mount info via other methods than reverse engineering. Sigma, however, has not had such a relationship that I know of. They do reverse engineer lens mount info, and it shows, as their lenses seem to have issues with small changes in the signals that Nikon keeps making, whereas Tamron does not.

            • Proto

              Hence the “free” dock… to transfer the headache of AF calibration to lens users

            • PhilK

              The situation of course changes when a camera maker has a separate or existing business relationship with a company that they already use as a subcontractor/supplier (eg Nikon with Cosina, Pentax with Tamron, etc) or just have some kind of financial relationship with. (Sony/Tamron, etc.)

        • A. F.O.

          I think those kinf of agreements are illegal: perhaps the EU will take a pick on your words…and dig.

        • Proto

          Zeiss representative in US explained that to enable AF for Nikon bodies, they will have to reverse engineer – like Sigma does since they do not have Nikon;s proprietary AF info. Zeiss does not want to hack / reverse engineer unless Nikon gives them official info – which Nikon is not planning to. So, no AF in Zeiss

          • Thom Hogan

            That would be correct. But that doesn’t cover the mount communications for AI-S that Zeiss calls ZF. Was that reverse engineered or licensed from somewhere else? (There are Russian and European AI-S makers.)

            • Proto

              I did not know about ZF to ask that specific question to the Zeiss rep : ) I was asking basics — to add AF and reduce price (coz their new models are awesome).

    • Thom Hogan

      It’s ironic that your avatar is a blurry photographer.

      It’s also strange that somehow a 36mp camera is more forgiving to handshake than a 45mp one, when the implied resolution change is 9%, which is below the level most people can actually see.

      Yes, the D850 focus confirmation dot is much more sensitive. More sensitive than the focus peaking you’re using on the A7R2.

      • Robert Isha

        not a chance the focus peaking on Sony is fantastic. i took 100 shots the other day and i can tell you that 90 of them are in focus razor sharp. dont look at my icon and assume that i dont know how to take pictures. you do realize. that photography is not just wedding and portrait and fashion

        • Thom Hogan

          You seem to not understand the use of the word “ironic”. And then in haste your first sentence here says exactly the opposite of what you want to say (“is” should be “isn’t” because you’re trying to use a double negative).

          Since I have no way of evaluating your statement of purported fact, it’s tough to respond to it. But I looked at your previous Discus posts, and you seem to overstate your case a lot.

  • Bijan Choudhury

    Sony is getting close … We can not ignore SONY anymore … 😉

    • A. F.O.

      but we can ignore some people, here in NR 🙂

  • A. F.O.

    less than 13000 opinions in 127 million japonese… even so D850 wins 🙂

    • Wade Marks

      In statistics, one can have a much smaller sample of the population and have valid results. Many times in elections only a few thousand people are polled to extrapolate results for several millions. So it can be revealing.

      • TurtleCat

        When properly randomized and performed, of course.

  • br0xibear
    • yes, there was not much else this year 🙂

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      ..ships in 2018. Whaaat?
      Oookay, never mind.

  • photographer4

    Excellent camera the Nikon D850.

  • photographer4

    I think the Nikon D5s Will not appear, it will be the D6 2019. Just a feeling i have.

  • Allen_Wentz

    The interesting thing is not that the D850 is #1, which is a no-brainer, but that Sony shows at the #2 and #3 spots.

  • Jeffry De Meyer

    It is sad to see the 7500 and omd10mk3 in there, those things should not be bought as they are gelded POS that don’t deserve to wear the name of the product line they are in

  • Argeswara Ṭur Sina

    Yay!! Keep it up Nikon!

  • Rubén Orozco Cabrera

    Maybe the D850 is a great camera…
    But for me is just a myth or phanthom or perhaps a internet’s legend.
    I paid for one Nikon D850 in November 20th here in Mexico (GDL) and there are not any news about when I can have it.
    Incredible from Nikon.

    • KnightPhoto

      Again is just a factor of demand exceeding initial supply. Good to see this success for Nikon.

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