Still receiving conflicting information on a potential Nikon D5s announcement in January


The title says it all - I am still receiving conflicting information on a potential Nikon D5s announcement in January. Historically, Nikon has been introducing their new top pro model every two years during the CES show in early January. Given all the latest developments, I am still not sure if this will be the case in 2018. Maybe this email will trigger some more tips from people in the know (tips can be submitted anonymously here).

In terms of lenses, a new 200-400 lens is expected to be announced in the next few months (it could actually be 180-400mm). A new macro lens is also rumored (could be a replacement for the current 60mm f/2.8).

Graphics: broxibear


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  • mok

    I think it will be every three years from now. Same as for D850 vs D810. They need cut costs and those cameras are not so fast getting old.

    • Vinnypimages

      Three years is out of phase with the Olympics. It used to be tweak in time for the winter and full version for the Summer games. Thing is it’s all a bit late for Korea but shooters could well be there with gaffer taped bodies etc.

      • Spy Black

        That only matters if Canon stays in phase with rhe Olympics.

      • Or they could drop the intermediate bodies and simply release a body every 4 years just like Canon does.

        • Yes, this is what I am thinking too – they may just skip the D5s or they may just add SnabBridge and call it D5s. I just don’t expect a lot of other updates.

          • Spy Black

            They’d have to increase the sensor resolution if it followed in the footsteps of it’s predecessors.

            SnabBridge is right…

          • br0xibear

            I think there will be a D5s for the Winter Olympics in Feb 2018, but like the D4 to D4s, there won’t be any radical changes…
            https://nikonrumors.com/2014/02/24/nikon-d4s-vs-d4-specifications-comparison.aspx/

            • PhilK

              Whereas I think that Nikon got stung so bad by the public’s perception of mediocre low-ISO DR on the D5, that a quick update that improved that a bit on their flagship model might improve their public standing somewhat.

              They made a relatively minor – but still significant – improvement in image quality on the D3s over the D3, for example.

            • ITN

              Most camera buyers couldn’t care less about base ISO DR – this is why Canon has twice the sales of Nikon in ILCs and far greater proportion of the sports market (with their 1D X being prevalent, not the new 1D X II). The D4 surrendered a large part of the market to Canon’s 1D X despite having superior base ISO DR. Other factors are more important in brand choice.

            • PhilK

              Like Apple, Canon has reached a pre-eminent market position where people will put Canon dog food on the kitchen dinner table if that’s what they are offering for sale.

              That said, one of the reasons for that is that Canon has been more competitive than Nikon in a number of areas over the last 5 yrs or so. DR is one of their weak points, but they have many other strong points. (eg live-view/video AF on their DSLRs among various other things)

              But in the case of Nikon, a back-step on a traditional strength of theirs leaves them open to criticism because among other things they don’t take control of their public message as well as some of their competitors do.

            • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

              Possibly a tweak to the sensor, 4K full readout for video, 3.2″ Tilting Screen, improvement to snapbridge, etc.

          • Chris Phillips

            My crystal ball said there will NOT be a D5s there will be a D6 by the end of 1016. It will be the first DSLR to feature a hybrid view finder(EVF and OVF). With this new tech Nikon users will be able to enjoy their current line up of glass and at the same time have the best of both mirrorless and DSLR worlds . Technology allows Nikon to go ahead and surprise us with a more sure footed step into the future.
            But then again its just my crystal ball NOTHING SOLID. Commercially it makes sense though.

            • ITN

              The EVF embedded to the side of the prism would ruin the quality of the OVF. It’s too much of a compromise I’m afraid.

          • ITN

            It’s not going to happen. The D5 already has the connectivity needed at sports arenas and unlike Snapbridge (one of the greatest embarrassments in Nikon’s 100-year history), the D5’s connectivity actually works.

        • Right now upgrading existing bodies is a successful strategy, albeit with lower volume, but we’re getting to the point where 4 years from now, Nikon and Canon will have to introduce some really radical imaging products or be eaten alive by either DJI, Apple, or Samsung. Smart phones are threatening DSLR territory way too quickly.

          • Andrew

            Are you serious? Not now, not in the foreseeable future. Smartphones have tiny image sensors thus poor image quality in low light situations. And look at the Nikon P900 83x Optical Zoom lens, Smartphones are decades away from achieving its level of performance.

            There is no competition between Smartphones and DSLR cameras. No one goes out to buy a Smartphone for its camera, the built-in camera is free. Smartphones are taking away sales from compact cameras not because Smartphone cameras are better, but because they are free and come with pretty good image quality. And besides, it is more convenient to use a camera that is part of a device like a Smartphone that is immediately accessible than to carry an extra more substantial (compact) camera.

            So for obvious reasons, Smartphones have impacted the lower-end of the camera market but will eventually contribute to more DSLR sales as more people are introduced to photography who will eventually desire a more substantial camera for capturing important memories like weddings, sports, and wildlife.

            • Quit your rational sense talking! Nobody is hearing it! They want doomsday and pipe dreams.

            • Pippo

              Smartphone is a real DSLR killer. Not exactly D5, but D XX00. Of course, all other formfactor cameras too.

            • Dino Brusco

              Pippo, Andrew
              it’s not smartphone being a DSLR killer. It’s people misusing / abusing it. Let me explain. On a technical standpoint, DSLRs are way ahead of smartphones which work decently only in bright light, producing oversharpened and often oversaturated images and of course as soon as the light goes down.. their tiny sensors show their limits. The problem is now everyone on Earth has one and most people think to solve all their photo needs with a smartphone. It happened to me (who live in Italy and am a semi-pro photographer) hearing my cousin (who lives near LA, USA) saying “Oh for the christening of my daughter we’ll make it with a friend of ours who has an iPhone” while I had suggested her to contact a serious photographer ( I happened to have one in the nearby over there ) – The ceremony is now over, they are full of cheesy group shots which nearly no detail in skin or dress tones. I bet my D200 with 17-35 and Tamron 28-75 made a better job 10 yrs ago !!! BUT they were on a budget and they wanted to spare money ! They probably don’t value photos as I (and all those who have really seen a beautiful timeless photo) do. What can you do? Nothing. However, High end DSLRs won’t be in danger, lower end will be for sure (unless people start realizing that even a lower end DSLRs produces a much better iq than an expensive iPhone or Samsung or whatever DJI etc )

            • Andrew

              Dino, Interesting story indeed 😉 And you are making a good point for anyone who would care to read about your friend’s experience. Unfortunately for her, she may have seen the Apple hype without experiencing the iPhone for herself. I have an iPhone and anyone who has an iPhone would sooner or later experience the same crappy low light performance 😉 That, in my opinion, is the best advertisement for a DSLR camera.

            • Allen_Wentz

              Also it is an advertisement for better lighting and better stability. Remember using film?

              And, each iPhone has provided visually obviously better camera performance every 12 months since 2007 without exception. Contrast that with folks here discussing whether or not some new generation DSLR is improved over two years previous by arguing about an only-lab-measurable 1/3 of a stop of DR.

            • Well, I mean, come on. DSLR image quality is progressing from really good to amazing in most lighting conditions. Phone tech from 2007 -now has gone from garbage to ok as long as there is lots of light.

            • Smart phones are definitely killing some types of traditionally professional photography. I’ve been the only pro at events before and people really just want photos on their phone they can share instantly. Getting a much higher quality photo might have value to them later, but really at that point the event has passed. And during the event, people know that, and they will ignore me or stand in front of me with their phone fumbling with it for 30 seconds as they try to get it to work. Then I’ll go in and pop off three shots in a second as their backup. They still refer to me as the “good photos” but last night there was a phone operated standalone camera in front of a step and repeat that took care of all of the paparazzi style shots for the night. The end is here for some types of photography.

            • Andrew

              Pippo, you must not own a smartphone or else have never taken pictures towards nightfall 😉 And how do you think kids learn how to walk, by first crawling. Practically no one goes from a smartphone to a D5 without first traversing the path of the Dxx00, be it the D3400, D5600, or D7200. Smartphones are like amature singers, they are great to listen to but you would never pay to hear them sing at a concert; and nor would you permit a photographer for hire to use a smartphone instead of a DSLR at your special event. Ten years from now, the smartphone’s camera will still greatly lag the Dxx00.

              The smartphone’s only real killer capability is the high expectations being shattered when its blurry low light images surface. But there is a solution, make certain you use a tripod or lean against a wall to keep your hands perfectly still so as to make your low light images less blurry. Cheers!

            • “No one goes out to buy a Smartphone for its camera” Actually, I did but I also shoot with a D850 and D810. Just last week I was shooting a college football game in Santa Ana with a D500. Since it was the last game of the year, the coaches wanted some group photos so I put my 120-300 away and pulled out an iPhone. So did others. The images were on social media in seconds. Post processing was done by the smart phone, in phone. My action images made it to the school website later that evening but first required some post processing.

              Out of several thousand people that were at the game, I may have been the only person in the stadium with a DSLR. That does not bode well for DSLR makers. Yes, there are people that want quality but its a lot fewer than I could have ever imagined. It’s really quite sad although I’ve seen some really emotional images taken with a smart phone.

            • “The images were on social media in seconds. Post processing was done by the smart phone, in phone. My action images made it to the school website later that evening but first required some post processing.”
              You agreed with Lund4ever.

            • Andrew

              Mike, my point exactly, you cannot compete with FREE and that is why all of those people at the college football game mostly used their smartphones to take pictures. Using a disposable camera to take pictures is what millions of consumers used to do before the advent of the smartphone. They are called DISPOSABLE or SINGLE-USE cameras.

              And besides, how many millions of people bought Polaroid cameras to see an instant printout of their shots? Did they buy these cameras for their impressive image quality? No, there was nothing impressive about their image quality. People are comfortable living with grainy images when it becomes an affordability or convenience issue. They bought millions of these cameras for their convenience and price, confirming the concept that something is always better than nothing.

              People are talking about smartphones as if they have all of a sudden, introduced photography to the millions. But that is not the case. People, in general, have always been interested in capturing memories of special events and scenes.

              People argue about the popularity of the smartphone as having to do with their elegant user interface and connectivity to the Internet. But that again is not the case. The Internet provides a free way to upload and save images which are later viewed on computer or smartphone screens. People used to spend $12 to develop a roll of film containing 12 pictures when a cheaper or more convenient option was not available. How often do the current consumers print hard copies of their pictures? Exactly, practically never!

              So it is not accurate when people talk about the technological breakthroughs or elegant user interface for the smartphone’s dominance. It is more accurate to say that the camera (be it compact or disposable) is now inside a device called a smartphone. In other words, the camera has gone hybrid. The primary function of the smart device is a phone and that is why it is called a smartphone. Had Nikon or Canon introduced a cell phone functionality inside their camera and dominated the market, the smartphone might have been called Smartcamera.

              Going back to my original point, smartphone cameras have simply replaced NEARLY FREE disposable and low-cost cameras with FREE. All of that does not negate the fact that there are certain use-case benefits as you elucidated – uploading pictures during and immediately after a game.

              So in a sense, smartphones have not changed anything, millions of people are still taking pictures though now that cheap disposable or single-use cameras are now their smartphones, the venue has changed. And when people finance that smartphone for $800 over 2-years, they are paying $200 for the phone, $200 for the internet-connected computer (gaming device/music player), $200 for the camera, and $200 in finance charges 😉

            • Good points. However, when I scroll thru the images on the back of D500 or D850 during a football game as I am taking them, I would be willing to to pay $10 per month to the local telco to be able to double tap an image on the back of the body to be able to send it to Face Book, to Costco, or to the sports information representative in the sports booth. It just seems like a slam dunk.

            • Allen_Wentz

              Agreed. And I would be willing to pay much more than $10 per month.

            • Don’t be so sure about this statement. My wife hasn’t used her Nikon D7100 for more than a few clicks in the past couple years. She is using her iphone exclusively and has re-ignited her creative photography passion that was lagging behind with DSLR which required download and process, where now she snaps great photos and has them on Social Media instantly (after some on-phone processing). She is very happy with this workflow and quite frankly so am I as it offloads the extra work I used to have to dealing with her images. So instead of looking at an upgrade in the next few years, she will be upgrading her phone and her old DSLR is collecting dust. (My new 850 arrived last week, but I’m still away, so eagerly awaiting new camera when I get home later this week!!)

          • Lund4ever

            Smartphones are for instagram and other small images. Low dynamic resolution and in general flat images even my kids see that

  • Eric Calabros

    Just add some of D850 features, Thunderbolt 3, full frame 4k, and two more frames in burst mode. Done.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      possibly add a hybrid ovf/evf viewfinder. Maybe later introduce a D5x with an updated hi-res sensor (50mp+)

      • A hybrid VF sounds like a major new feature that doesn’t sound likely to appear in an intermediate body. Dxs bodies were always mild updates.

      • Eric Calabros

        They admitted this hybrid idea everybody is talking about is not feasible in real world

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          True Yoan and Eric – just wanted Nikon to add some innovative bits on to their excellent semi and pro cameras. They need to generate some buzz and hopefully their Nikon 2 or new mirrorless new system is a success this time – compared to Nikon 1 and their past mistakes, e.g., delaying and then cancelling DL series.

          • Well, the D6 could be a DSLR/mirrorless hybrid 😉

            • with a hybrid viewfinder 🙂

            • PhilK

              How does one call a DSLR of any form – with a built-in, non-removable mirror – a “mirrorless” camera? Or even “partially mirrorless”, or “DSLR/mirrorless hybrid”??

              That’s like calling your car a “car/motorcycle hybrid”, because you can remove two of the wheels . (But not get very far down the road) 😛

            • Imagine a D6 that works great both in regular and mirror-up mode – a hybrid OVF/EVF, fast shooting speeds in electronic shutter mode and the best on-sensor PDAF available. It should beat the crap out of the a9 😉

    • Yes that’s expected, but will this generate any sales enough to justify it?

      • Eric Calabros

        Any new sell is better than the current stalled situation.

        • that is true too

          • Dino Brusco

            To tell the truth, i’m expecting a D760 or whatever to be out later in 1H2018, however for sure the FIFA world cup will push Nikon engineers to release something as D5s or D500s even if not strictly necessary.

        • Michael Turner

          You are right. With the D850 out, no one would buy the D5 cause it’s time to upgrade. It will only be bought absolutely for what it can offer over the D850. Not much, which equals not much sales. The D5s is going to happen and soon.

          • ITN

            Actually reviews suggest the D5 is significantly better in subject tracking. But most people who need a D5 already bought theirs in 2016. Camera sales lasts 6 months after intro and then they are old news.

    • A. F.O.

      with some extra Mp, right?

      • Eric Calabros

        That’s not what target market need

  • Phil

    I often wonder what camera manufacturers used to do when a new model lasted many years before the next version. The R&D staff must have taken lots of holidays. “Here’s our new F3 and we hope you like it. We’ll see you again in about a decade with something new”

    • Fly Moon

      Like Apple Mac Pro or Mac mini 🙂

    • Andrew

      From an engineering standpoint, it now takes a lot less time to develop newer products because of the massive investments in technology that is going into all types of electronics from tablet computers and Smartphones all sporting cameras and their associated technologies such as image sensors. Consumers are purchasing over 1 billion Smartphones every year causing all types of spin-offs in new technologies as these phones are rapidly being enhanced. As a result, the R&D staff can leverage these technologies to accelerate the product development cycle.

      The F3 engineers were using Kodak and Fuji films in their cameras. But now, Nikon engineers are using image sensors instead of film, and these image sensors are evolving at a rapid pace as requirements for them to gather more light keep feeding the need for further product investments. And so now major product enhancements are expected about every 3 years or so.

    • Life in general was slow and full of enjoyment in those times.

  • T.I.M

    I don’t need a D5s but if it come with a new pro wide angle prime, I won’t complain.

    • Ken

      You don’t need many things like breast milk

    • A. F.O.

      Agree
      🙂

  • Michele Perillo

    would not that mean a D500s as well?

    • Allen_Wentz

      No way. Far too soon. The D500 is the best DX body with no close competition except the FX D850.

      • Michele Perillo

        Glad to hear that. I’m planning to get one in December, would rather avoid getting the shorter straw

        • Allen_Wentz

          I guarantee you will like the D500.

      • Lou Rivera

        I agree the D500 is the better body. Pro build, best AF, fastest FPS and best low light performance. The D7200 though, is still king of resolution. Portrait and Landscapes.

        • outkasted

          D500s will get a 24mp sensor.

          • Lou Rivera

            Not until a new refresh with the next Expeed processor to handle the extra data. Could be 2 years

          • Lou Rivera

            Not until the next refresh, which could be 2 years away. With a new Expeed processor. Also, MP’s isn’t the only reason the 7200 sensor is better for landscapes and portraits

          • Lou Rivera

            Not until a refresh and a faster processor to handle the extra MP’s at the high frame rate. Probably 2 years away.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      They have enough on their hands in trying to produce enough D850’s.

    • Spy Black

      They’d have to start buying surplus Samsung sensors for it…

  • Aldo

    Best at ISO 1,000,000…

  • Luboš

    Perhaps increased sensor to 24MP? The sweet spot? 🙂

    • Allen_Wentz

      IMO the sensor is the big question.

    • Dino Brusco

      More. A big jump would be in the 28/32 when you could start removing the AA filter and have a much remarkable improvement in imagery and details. Of course 24 and 36 MP sensors could be tweaked yet I suspect if they will change the sensor, it will be another new measure around 30 MP.

      • outkasted

        what about the RGBW sensor

        • Dino Brusco

          Sorry but I am not sure what you mean. Really.

  • Tom Bartol

    i think that would be stupid, it will cut in d850, i think its time for D650/D760 , and on the end of the 2018 it will be D5s. and if that its not the case i will buy 7Rii in say fu nikon

    • Luboš

      I think you are just waiting for an excuse to get Sony, but you don’t have justifications enough for it.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Possibly the new Mirrorless FF may be in a form factor / body style as the D650/D750.

  • Max

    I can’t wait for the D3400s.

    • 😀

    • Fly Moon

      I can wait

      • Max

        I envy others’ discipline!

    • PhilK

      In that part of the product range, that would end up being called the D3500. 🙂

  • Дмитрий

    ok, canon 1dx mark 2>> nikon d5
    cannon have more realy iso, more clean iso
    have dual pixel af .. best on video
    4k 60p
    nikon no have any
    and price for nikon drops more quickly
    _____________________
    if new sensor + 50p 6k + log

    • Дмитрий

      af in video. nikon looser for all

      • D700s

        Only youtubers and soccer moms use AF in video. Real videographers pull focus. So now we know which you are.

      • Fly Moon

        You should use Google Translate.

      • Allan

        Does your name translate to Dimitri in English?

        I enjoy reading your comments, and encourage you to continue posting.

        I think you say some interesting things about the differences between Canon and Nikon. People here can tell you why they prefer Nikon over Canon.

    • TurtleCat

      Ok, we know you’re a Canon fan…

      • Michele Perillo

        Don’t feed the trolls

      • Fly Moon

        He’s not a Canon fan, he’s a CaNNon fan! He can’t even spell it!!

  • Brett A. Wheeler

    ISO 26,214,400 HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Brett A. Wheeler

    Built-in Wifi would be nice, but then they couldn’t charge $600 for the WT-6!

    • Oguz

      No way for this, as this is a sports camera, and there are some countries, where Wifi in Camera is still not allowed to use. So a cheaper WT-6 or WT-8 would be good, Also Nikon should consider to lower the ridicilous high price of the WT-7 to $300-400.

      • JL

        Which countries are those?

        • Oguz

          France for example, only with permission, even forbidden for private persons to shoot films or photos send with wifi. Do not ask me why, but it is shown in the user manual of WT-5 and WT-6 in the first pages

          • JL

            I guess those are license issues at certain sports events, because e.g. FIFA sold the TV license for a lot of money to the TV stations, and they don’t want any photographer to broadcast their own stream. But if wifi is built into the camera and you don’t use it?

  • Дмитрий

    jast 12800 CLEAN iso its good
    Nikon D5

    2434 iso Dxo mark …

    • ITN

      DxOMark sports score is poorly devised and not reflective of real world performance. ISO 12800 is quite good with the D5, even ISO 104200 gives usable images in natural light.

  • Kriss_De_Valnor

    Where is my Nikon FX mirrorless camera???

  • Ken

    D5 needs to improve its dynamic range.

    • Eric Calabros

      Has industry’s highest, in ISO range usually used by its users

    • ITN

      Why? Most of the top sports photographers shoot JPG and have to submit in-camera JPGs (to the agencies). JPGs are 8-bit files.

  • TurtleCat

    If a new 60mm macro is indeed coming out it won’t be long before the 105mm macro would be updated. I’d wager the 105 outsells the 60. Still, I could see the 60 fast tracked due to the D850 and the film adapter and picture control.

    • julian_n

      I think the 200 is the one that is most overdue an update.

      • TurtleCat

        It is, and it would be one I would be interested in, but the 105 outsells it.

  • A. F.O.

    the logical route would be
    new D760
    new mirroless (DX?)+ primes
    then
    new D5s.
    I guess anyone with a D5 in the next futebol world cup wil be just fine (Russia, 2018).
    (Yes…it is futebol 🙂

    • luan

      football*

      • A. F.O.

        yes I know…:-) just kidding 🙂

        • Peter Rothengatter Photoart

          fuckbal

      • Spy Black

        fútbol…

    • Fly Moon

      N/A

    • Diogo Correia

      Nova D760 é que era, a D750 é grande câmara sem dúvida mas já tem 3 anes e se é para comprar uma nova gostava de comprar a mais recente, esperar para ver… nunca mais chega..

  • it’s possible with the olympics and sticks with the trend of the D4 and D4s

  • Vocko

    Why didn’t anybody think about an upgraded BSI sensor? It would make sense as it would give better performance on both ends of spectrum (like D850) and a few other tweaks (taken from D850 or something new) and voilà D5s.

    • TurtleCat

      BSI won’t really help on the IQ front but would help where the electronics are placed. But I don’t see a lot of aid for the D5 in BSI at this point.

      • Jim Kiefer

        wouldn’t BSI result in lower noise at same ISO, or allow ISO to be higher for same relative noise? Don’t think BSI does anything for DR, but does for noise.

        • TurtleCat

          At this sensor size it wouldn’t. Thom has explained it multiple times. At FX sizes maybe 1/6 stop at most.

    • A new sensor wouldn’t be used for an S model.

    • ITN

      BSI does not help with large photosite sensors.

  • RC Jenkins

    I’m not sure a revision would be necessary, unless it’s solving some practical issue.

    The potential practical issues I can see for a D5 would be:
    ::AF point spread (not easy to solve for on a DSLR due to physical constraints – mirror sizes between mount & sensor)
    ::Shooting speed & blackout (again, not easy to solve for on a DSLR due to physical constraints – moving mirror in sync with shutter opening)
    ::Image quality (resolution, DR, rolling shutter, etc.) – not really an issue for the intended use cases, and may require overhauls elsewhere (eg. more MP = larger buffer + faster CPU)

    However, these above problems can be solved in live view shooting. That would be assuming 1) pros would be happy to use the rear LCD, and 2) the live-view performance can match mirror-down performance.

    I think the D5 has taken it about as far as is practical with DSLRs for the applications the D5 was designed around. It’s at the point of diminishing returns relative to other technologies out there.

    • Allen_Wentz

      I disagree, because my guess is that more MP = larger buffer + faster CPU is technically feasible. Also add a flippy touch display and _good_ built-in GPS and a 5s would be justified.

  • Coffee

    I would like to see is a D500s. Tweak up the D500 sensor, touch screen, and other parts with the upgrades that came from the D850. Forget the D5s, it’s going to be overpriced anyway for most people.

    • Fly Moon

      D500 is already touch screen

      • TurtleCat

        He’s probably thinking of touch menus which would be nice. I’d like to see SnapBridge improved further, too. I know Thom had some suggestions for improvement but so far I don’t have a lot I’d change that suits my situation. Although touch menus would be a lot less clumsy than the current UI.

      • Coffee

        I was thinking more of focus peaking and the additional tweaks to the touch screen (available in menu) like turtlecat mentioned.
        For the sensor, bring the same technology/design to the crop sensor.

    • SteveWithAnS

      D500 is still amazing; what would you change about it?

    • Andrew

      D850 (High Resolution) + D760 (Low Light) > D5 (Low Light / Speed).

      Note: A + B > C means A plus B is greater than C.

      • Allen_Wentz

        Ergonomics, durability, speed: D5 > D850 + D760.
        By a lot.

        • Andrew

          For certain use-case, I agree 😉

  • BG

    New macro? Make it 200/4 please. I don’t think the current 60 needs replacement.

    • everybody is waiting for a new 200mm lens, I hope they refresh it

      • Keith Calvin Leong

        That’s right, it’s been so long, I suspect if ff mirrorless using different mount will hold the new 200mm fl refreshing?

      • BG

        But your sources suggest it’s the 60?

        • Only from one source, no confirmation from other sources yet.

          • BPhoto

            Could it be an upgrade from the current 60mm because of the D850 negative digitizer?

            • could be

            • BPhoto

              Hmmm, perhaps worth waiting for then. Though a refresh of the 200 is more exciting.

      • It will likely be an E. I would update my 200f/4.0 to take advantage of focus shift.

        • Benjamin Brosdau

          For a second I was thrown off. I thought focus shift would be very disadvantageous for macro work. Then I remembered that Nikon chose to pick a term that is widely (negatively) associated with the shifting of the focus point during stopping down the aperture for the -indeed useful- automated series of images while racking the focus back to front. Focus stacking would habe been my choice of wording for Nikon.

    • Lihkin

      If they update the 200 / 4 macro, it will be a G version with no aperture ring. I don’t understand why Nikon can’t update the macros, but leave the aperture ring on.

      • BG

        Or give us a good set of tubes with CPU contacts I guess.

        • Lihkin

          I agree.

      • ITN

        Also it would have a modern, vibration probe tripod collar making the lens useless for its intended purpose. I think it is better to keep the AF D with its solid collar since Nikon can no longer design proper collars.

  • Kenny Macfarlane

    If the D850 was the same price as a D5 , which would most people buy ?
    The D850 must be outselling the D5 by at least 2000 to 1

    • Allen_Wentz

      But the D850 is not the same price as a D5. And D850 was not released until after the bulk of D5 sales were largely finished.

      Some photogs, including me, are waiting to see details of D5s before jumping on the D850 bandwagon. I am getting really impatient though…

      • Sawyerspadre

        What’s your use-case? I don’t see a new D5s replacing the D850.

        I would think the D5s would continue to be 20 MPish, and fast, but not really the all-arounder that the D850 is.

        • Allen_Wentz

          I do not see a D5s replacing the D850, but for someone like me buying (one) new pro FX body to finally replace my D3 I will be choosing between D5s/x and D850.

          20 MPish is not enough to justify building a D5s. But 36 MP plus good integral GPS and flippy display would be.

          • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

            They will offer same res between D5 and d5s and no S series has ever increased the resolution.

            May see a D6 / M6 using a 24mp sensor.

  • MonkeySpanner

    The elephant in the room here is where is the upcoming mirrorless info?

    • Jim Kiefer

      I’m now thinking about the Sony a9 or the new a7riii. not sure how long nikon will be to bring mirrorless, and the sony GM zooms seem better than the nikon zooms – at least the 24-70 in the corners, hugh differnce. i’m currenlly shooting D3s, and contemplating my next steps.

      • MonkeySpanner

        I have no idea which direction Nikon will go here. I think making a clone system to Sony’s E Mount would be a mistake – I mean Sony is way ahead. I think there is room for Nikon to improve on what Fuji has done in DX.

      • MonkeySpanner

        I actually wish they would have followed through with the DL camera. I would have bought 2 of the three they were developing

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          me 2 – had to buy the Sony equivalents in the end

      • ITN

        https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/sony-goes-world-class-the-24-70mm-f2-8-gm-mtf-and-variance-tests/

        Very small differences between current Nikon, Sony and Canon 24-70/2.8 lenses.

        On the other hand, Sony 70-200/2,8 appears to be considerably worse than the Nikon:

        https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/01/an-update-and-comparison-of-the-sony-fe-70-200mm-f2-8-gm-oss/

      • MonkeySpanner

        Yes, I currently have a fleet of Nikon DX bodies and lenses. I am tempted by some of the deals going on right now – but I am holding off to see what Nikon does with the new mirrorless system. If it is big, and expensive I will wait. But if it is small and in the price range of the Sony a6xxx series I will probably dive in.

        • KnightPhoto

          Likewise am building a war chest for Nikon mirrorless. I intend to shoot a mix of my current Nikon DSLRs and Nikon mirrorless…

  • Mike

    36MP, better DR, features of the D850, another half stop better in higher ISO noise – makes the best replacement for my D800 to get all of the D5 and D800 capability in one camera – sold!

    • Dino Brusco

      If a new sensor has to be revealed, I’d expect it to be less than 36 MP, something in the 28/32 MP, enough to start removing the AA filter and to have a crop of approx. 13.5 MP and still keep the impressive fps

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        Only see an increased in MP between model releases, e..g, D4 to D5 and not in a miror refresh, e.g., D5s

  • DeNo_F49F

    I would love to see the specs. I keep hearing that fat camera hoarder talk about how bad the D5 is at lower iso. I don’t know if it is true or he is just being him. But if it is, that isn’t really a good look. Hopefully the D5s will address this. In the past, what have they generally done with the updates to the “s” models ?

    • RC Jenkins

      Not sure who the fat hoarder is, but it’s true that the D5 doesn’t perform well (compared to other Nikons) at low ISOs. In fact, the D5 has the lowest max DR of any current full-frame Nikon. Even the D610 has (much) better DR at low ISOs than the D5.

      But this isn’t what the D5 is designed to excel at. The D5 is a very specialized camera for high-speed shooting, with high shutter speeds (for minimizing motion blur in action). And these high shutter speeds limit light, meaning high-ISO. And this is where the D5 is better than other cameras. If you want max IQ with more available light, you’d have to look at Nikon’s other cameras, like Nikon’s other pro full-frame flagship, the D850. Or even the lower-end models like the D750 & D610.

      The “S” revisions don’t really have a common theme that I can see other than being mid-cycle refreshes. Nikon also used to do “X” (higher resolution) and “H” (higher speed), but they haven’t done this in a while. With “S,” sometimes it’s new sensors, new AF modules, new CPU, tweaks, etc. But the D5 already introduced a new sensor, new AF module, new CPU, new high FPS, etc.

      I can’t imagine major improvements other than to live-view & video (or 1-2 bump in FPS)–if there even is a refresh. These cameras appeal to a very small group of users–mainly professional sports & wildlife photographers–and the D5 is still cutting edge here.
      Many of these people have multiple cameras, so it’s trivial to pick up the D5 for sports, D850 for portraits, etc.

      • PhilK

        Yes, but I think it’s a fairly new thing for a Nikon flagship DSLR to be inferior in some respect to their lower-end models in terms of IQ, outside of native resolution and low-light-sensitivity differences related resolution. (Case in point: the limited ISO range of the D3X, which was considered a reasonable tradeoff for what at the time was a very high resolution sensor)

        Which is one reason why people made such a big deal out of that revelation about low-ISO DR on the D5.

        Another reason is that Nikon had become more or less the gold-standard for digital camera DR for some years, and when they released a flagship model which was partially uncompetitive in that area – even in just part of the ISO range – it raises eyebrows among some crowds. (Of course including the fanboy trolls for the other brands)

        • Allen_Wentz

          The physics have always made highest fps speed incompatible with best IQ, e.g. D2h and the D2x.

          IMO describing a Nikon flagship DSLR as “inferior in some respect to their lower-end models” just because that body is not the very best at some parameter like low-ISO DR is wrong-headed thinking. Different high-end bodies are just different. Requiring the highest priced body to be best at every metric would be just wrong.

          • PhilK

            What I was pointing out, by excluding aspects such as smaller ISO range on the D3x, is that photographers understand basic tradeoffs like resolution versus ISO sensitivity. This goes back many generations from the early days of silver photography, when more sensitive emulsions had lower resolution and higher grain than less sensitive ones.

            What I think they are less tolerant of, are other sorts of compromises, like an area where Nikon has been class-leading for a number of years, eg dynamic range at a given ISO setting.

      • DeNo_F49F

        I was referring to the angry “photographer”. He seems more a camera hoarder than a photographer.

        As for the intended uses though, that makes sense. I was thinking perhaps wedding photogs could make use of the higher iso capability in the ceremonies they would shoot. It’s dark as hell in most churches that I have been in.

        • He is just a troll

          • DeNo_F49F

            I agree. He watches everyone else’s videos and makes videos based off of them. What kills me is he says Tony Northrop isn’t a photographer but he is ? Lmao
            Also he talks crap about this site as well. I’ve gotten more relevant info from this site than him, so why talk bad about you ? Smh

            • I think people should just boycott him and not watch his videos. That’s the only way he can go away.

    • Bill Ferris

      The D5 has base ISO dynamic range a skosh better than the D700. By ISO 1200, it’s on par with D4 dynamic range. At about ISO 2400, the D5 becomes a low light monster.

  • sgredsch

    a new 60 2.8 would be bamboozling – considering what a beautiful lens the 60 2.8G is – what would they want to improve? imho overall its one of nikons finest.
    the 200 4 is due for an upgrade – not optically tho. this lens delivers incredible image quality – maybe the long waiting time for a replacement is caused by scared nikon to release a worse lens, lol.

    • AYWY

      The current 60mm micro vignettes substantially wide-open. I can see visible fall-off on the camera LCD and sometimes need a +0.3 to +0.7 to compensate. Reduced at f/4 and invisible at f/5.6. In general i prefer it to the current 50mm f/1.8 for non-closeup shots as well and agree it is a nice lens.

      So yeah improvement to the wide-open vignetting and maybe adding VR will be nice improvements. But i think this lens is barely a decade old, so i have some doubts this rumour will turn out to be real.

      • sgredsch

        i dont necesarily see a potential new 60 micro vignette less than the old. mind you, photozone measured a 1,8 steps falloff for the 60 2.8g and 1,5 steps for the 50 1.8g full open. the 50 1.8g recovers faster, but the 50 1.4g is basically the same like the 60 2.8g (on FX that is).
        thats right in the middle of the pack of ~50mm high speed lenses.

        when looking at the 85 1.4 (D&G) the old lens also has less vignetting than the new near max aperture – g lens is being better at f4 onwards.

        bottom line is that history doesnt exactly show nikons new lenses have better vignetting characteristics than the older.

        and VR isnt really bringing anything to the table – it would make the lens more expensive, but not much more useful.

        1. VR can degrade image quality (esp. in macro range with the massive hand hold 3 axis movements).
        2. handheld macro (not doing stills) also needs high shutter speeds to overcome subject motion blur.
        3. still macro is mostly being done with tripod for composition.
        4. flashes.

        VR would be useful in general photography, but after all this is a macro lens, right?

        VR is useful when u’d need a mono or tripod but cant bring one to the party (when the shutterspeed requirement comes from the lens movement and not subject motion blur) – which in my case has been low light concert photography with the 70-200 VRII. but then again, i also did get great shots with the af 180 2.8 and 85 1.4 without VR. and the 60 2.8G would be the last of my lenses to deploy at that usecase.

        • ITN

          Older lenses were designed for film which did not permit any vignetting correction. Later (digital era) designs allow for some vignetting to gain benefits in other areas such as corner sharpness since a moderate amount of smooth vignetting is fixable in post.

    • monocolor

      VR.. that would be a nice addition to many of their primes I think.

  • Vincent

    Anyone still hoping for a D750 replacement like I am?

    • Jeffry De Meyer

      Hope sure, don’t see it happening.
      They were going to simplify their product lineup, more competent and expensive D6xx at around $2000

      They became pretty unpredictable by introducing that pos D7500

      • RC Jenkins

        Considering that the D750 sells much better than the D610, I’d expect them to do a higher-end D750 replacement at some point and discontinue the D6##.

        I think the D6## line in some form will move to mirrorless.

        • Rainier Zweers

          The other way around makes more sense. And the D750 sales figures still prove they have time for tweaking the development of that FF mirrorless solution.

          • RC Jenkins

            How does it make more sense? So Nikon should discontinue one of their most popular models that excels in a current DSLR strength (AF) in favour of one of their least popular models that has a higher overhead cost than its mirrorless counterparts?

  • Jeffry De Meyer

    No aa and exceed 6, offering h265 4K 60fps, inbody hdr and a preview of their mirrorless solution by offering a fast electronic shutter with object tracking when using e lenses.

    Is what I would expect.

    • Dino Brusco

      No AA would mean a higher MP count (something in the 30+ MP range) and thus a new sensor

      • Jeffry De Meyer

        why? the 20mp d500 doesn’t have an aa filter

        • Dino Brusco

          True, but you forget that 20 MP are crammed in a DX sensor, which equates to about a 45 MP FF. In fact also the D7200/D7500 and D5300 onwards are all without AA (they equate to an even higher MP count sensor). It’s not the absolute number but pixel density you have to consider. Probably 24 MP is near the upper limit requiring an AA filter. If D810 is FF and without AA filter, I expect the DX counterpart being somewhere around 20-24 at most.

  • Ed Hassell

    Tweak the D5? I don’t really see the point although there are certainly tweaks that could be made as others have pointed out.

    On the heels of the D850, a D5x high/res makes little sense.

    Not really much point in tweaking the D500 either. Yes, there are a few things that could be done but they are so minor as to be mostly unneeded.

    Maybe an iteration towards a D650/760; but . . .

    I’d rather Nikon concentrate on mirrorless. I want both a DX body and an FX body that can use new lenses un-adapted or most current lenses with an adapter. It MUST be compatible with current Nikon DSLR accessories / strobes / remotes / batteries, etc. Give me something that ADDS versatility; not something that requires that I replace or duplicate.

    A new 60mm macro? Again, unnecessary, unless, maybe they find the missing aperture ring (very useful on macro lenses).

    What DOES make sense to me is an updated 200 f/4 macro (but, PLEASE keep the aperture ring); or, even better, a resurrection of the 70-180 macro zoom. That lens was an unappreciated gem.

  • Webdomi

    Not sure the professionals and nikon passionates need a new D500. But a new 12-24 yes !

    • They have brought out 10-20 for this market.

      • Allen_Wentz

        Yeah the DX AF-P 10-20mm is well aimed at the DX UWA space. The new lens is probably very appropriate for the lower of end DX buyers, but the speed (and maybe IQ as well) of the 12-24mm that higher end DX shooters look for is not fully met by the inexpensive 10-20mm f.4.5-5.6.

        I was going to buy the 10-20mm for my nephew, since the WA kit lens that came with his D200 died and 10-20mm would be a perfect replacement (I already gave him a 35mm f/1.8). However he shoots a D200 which turns out to be incompatible with AF-P lenses. Neither would it work on the D5100 that lives in my truck.

        • I still remember my old(now sold off) 12-24 fondly. It was so good.

          • Allen_Wentz

            The 12-24mm was a very good lens for its time. I wish I had sold mine instead of it being stolen. :~(

            • Sawyerspadre

              I still have mine, good lens, but gathering dust, with FX cameras being my primary ride.

  • darkedgex

    Thinking a successor to the D750 would be more welcome. Unless they plan on putting something impressive into a D5s…

    And while I know most of us shoot stills, it’d be nice if Nikon took video shooting more seriously. The “flat” profile is nice, but a format that preserves dynamic range would be better. In-camera support for anamorphic desqueeze would be cool too (and ridiculously easy to add). If they want to send a message to Canon, they could even add in some slightly higher than 4K resolutions and/or add in-camera stabilization for video. 5K or 6K video would be nice to either a) crop in to in post, or b) downsample to 4K for added sharpness. Also, being able to shoot at non-16:9 aspect ratios would be nice (especially for the previously mentioned anamorphic lens support).

    • Allen_Wentz

      Yes we need a good price point D750 modernization that includes solid video for the wedding photogs who love that body. Just not until D850 early demand is fully sated.

      A D750 successor should not come anytime soon because:

      1) D850 is not even freely available yet, and a modernized D750 would cannibalize D850 for no good reason. I believe in allowing cannibalization as needed – – but not stupidly.

      2) The D750 is a great body that many folks still love and are still buying. Heck, we read here posters saying that their D850 order was delayed so they bought a D750 instead.

      3) Video competition in the shorter term probably should be dealt with via Nikon’s mirrorless response rather than by a D750 modernization.

      The D600/D610 line should die.

      • I agree, also given everything else going on at Nikon (cost cutting, layoffs) I just don’t see a D750 replacement coming anytime soon. I believe Nikon is now concentrating on their mirrorless solution.

        • Hector Gonzalez

          Hello Peter, do you think the first mirrorles will be pro level, (a9, a7riii)?

  • What ever happened to the Dƒ2?

    • PhilK

      Based on at least one interview with a key Nikon executive that was heavily involved in the original Df project, it seems that low sales of the original Df have made it an uphill battle to convince the management to replace it any time soon.

      • Dino Brusco

        Probably there were too many cons (related to the operability or use with mf lenses and scarce af sensitivity etc etc) that could be simply reworked better… it’s obvious it’s a niche product, however this might be not a problem, if the niche is right, the features for that niche are there and you don’t overprice it.

        • Niche product = Overprice.

        • PhilK

          One of Nikon’s big problems is that they don’t understand the market and the customers and culture in general well enough to be top-of-market good at either producing exactly what people want, or predicting demand for what they do produce. Neither do they have the marketing acumen of someone like Steve Jobs who knows how to basically tell people what they want and get them to buy whatever you make for them. (I’m amazed that Apple still seems able to do this in the post-Jobs era.. witness the iPhone X. A guy I know who makes basically minimum wage just bought one of those ~$1100 things to replace a damaged low-end model. Boggles my mind.)

          Personally while I think it was a factor, I don’t think the low sales of the Df were mostly due to price. I think it was mostly because it appeals to a kind of niche customer which is less common than Nikon thought.

          The price wouldn’t have been as big an issue if it was an elegant and classy “fashion accessory” the way many Leica models are. But instead, they were obsessed with channeling their old “FE” design, which was never a very appealing look to me, and I wasn’t a huge fan of its ergonomics, either.

          Instead of looking into the mirror and being obsesessed with their own history, what they probably should have done with the Df instead of trying to copy an old film camera look is just use the traditional, proven film camera ergonomics like many other makers have done (eg, pull important shooting controls out of the menus and have dedicated, simple/quick physical controls for them), but keep it competitive feature-wise. (eg video is not so important, but competitive AF is)

          And if you’re going to price it 50% or more higher than an existing model, at least make it a thing of beauty that wealthy people don’t mind showing off at dinner parties, instead of looking like grandpas decrepit 35-year old film camera. 😉

      • Allen_Wentz

        Df is positioned for folks who want “classic” (i.e. legacy) type bodies. That is a small subset to begin with, and very likely shrinking simply because of time.

        A Df upgrade would need to sell to folks who want legacy-type bodies but did not spend the big bucks necessary the first time around, or who will buy an expensive Df-2 on top of their expensive Df version 1. That presents a _really_ small subset of potential buyers.

        We have a shrinking DSLR market. IMO a Df-2 should not happen. Nikon should continue to do what it is doing so well at the high end (except add GPS and make SnapBridge work better). Then use the halo around best-in-class D5, D500 and D850 to help market a great-value response to mirrorless.

        Just my 0.02.

        • Sawyerspadre

          Hipsters would buy it at $999, on Black Friday, if you put a good DX sensor in it.

          • Allen_Wentz

            Except one-time 50+% off sales do nothing good for anyone except the retailer.

        • PhilK

          See my comment to Dino Brusco. I have doubts about a Df2 too, for similiar reasons.

          If they could pull off a stylish, hipster hit, then it might be interesting. But I think Nikon is too out-of-touch with cultural trends to succeed at such things.

          Instead, it seems like more of a self-indulgent belly-gazing exercise for septuagenarian Nikon execs infatuated with their own corporate history and mythology.

      • Mike

        Sort of a self fullfilling prophecy…. price it stupidely and sales will be low.

        • Sawyerspadre

          Agreed. At $1800, or less, it would have sold like hot cakes. If you price it high, because you think it will be niche, and not a big seller, guess what happens? It honestly can’t be harder to build than a D600.

        • PhilK

          As I replied today to Dino Brusco, I don’t think it’s simply – or even primarily – a matter of price.

    • RC Jenkins

      The Df is all about tactile control & the experience. This may sound ironic, but I think the best Df2 successor (if any) would be a mirrorless model. In-viewfinder manual focusing aids alone would make this worth it. Think Fuji XT2 or XPro2.

  • DrNo666

    To be honest I am not that comortable that will be able to deliver according to the 2 year tradition. Too much headache for them in many areas. D850 seem to be top priority now. Considering that a D5s is expected to have the same pixelcount as D5… what should be improved in a D5s? Videoabilities?

  • Dino Brusco

    I wonder what they could still improve on the D5s, aside the MP count… maybe another 1-2 fps? GPS? Really I have no idea

  • waterengineer

    Peter, in the spirit of the day, happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. I will write for others saying we are thankful for your willingness to continue the good work on this site. Thanks. Peace.

    • Thanks for being a reader and Happy Thanksgiving!

  • Dino Brusco

    Oh yes, happy thanksgiving to all of my US friends here !

    • Allan

      Thanks. I, and millions of others, ate too much today. So many of us are too sick to post comments on Nikon Rumors.

  • Webdomi

    Sorry, hope you have made the correction, for D5 instead of D500 … Best regards.

  • saywhatuwill

    Love the Homer lead picture.

  • John Viscovich

    i was expecting a D5X ????????????????????
    and maybe a 5x macro lens would be welcomed.

  • BernhardAS

    Just my two cents. Seen at a conference last month

  • BernhardAS
    • Dino Brusco

      Too funny, may I share, crediting you as the author ?

      • BernhardAS

        Be my guest

    • AYWY

      Is it because the Canons don’t do 4K so he has to use a mobile phone?

    • Allen_Wentz

      Y’all laugh, but I shoot exactly like that guy, except with a monopod on any lens as long as that Canon appears to be. The iPhone snaps add tight time and location info, in the cloud, and for practical purposes in real time.

      The iPhone’s precise time/location accuracy has great benefits for time billing and other business management purposes as well as for legal documentation of one’s work.

      Pix are auto loaded into Apple’s Photos app via the cloud, and Photos shows a date and location based hierarchy with easy keyword capability. With a fair degree of frequency I will seek out info regarding captures from 5 years ago or longer, and it only takes a few seconds to refresh my otherwise poor memory. Associated full-size NEFs not stored in the cloud are easily located once one has precise time and location info.

      Aperture was even better, but unfortunately Apple killed Aperture in favor of the consumer-oriented Photos app.

      • BernhardAS

        Dear Allen,

        Posting this I was rather sad than laughing. You mentioned some good reasons for the picture, my friends have told me many more.

        The sad part is, that we all should join Tom Hogan’s lament: CaNiSo are all sleeping at the wheel. Their cameras and software attempts are divorced from the workflow and the reality of working pros and amateurs.

    • rob

      This is Effing Hilarious! LOLOLOLOL

      • rob

        I downloaded this image, just so I can stuble upon it in my downloads folder later to laugh again… and maybe show the wife! Just Lol

    • vFunct

      The reason they do this is because pros have to also post on Instagram.

      Their workflow with pro-camera doesn’t really facilitate quick instagramming.

      It’s actually a real problem with pro-level cameras. They have to update their process so that they can post to Instagram as soon as possible from the dSLRs.

  • Gerard Roulssen

    I think 105/2.8 Micro-NIKKOR is more in need of a replacement than the shorter 60/2.8 … well, they both need updated/added VR and better optics.

    • a.almeida

      What about the 200/4.0 micro nikkor?

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        all 3 would be most welcome of an update but in order of:- 200 F4, 105 and then the 60 f2.8

  • AYWY

    TBH a D5S with D850 usability upgrades will be enticing to the demgraphic of photographers that use D5.

    Meaning features such as:
    Articulated touch screen
    LV silent shutter
    Image stacking
    DX mode viewfinder blackout
    Full sensor 4K recording

    All updates that can make huge difference for users in their work – more worthwhile than MP and DR improvements.

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