Nikon sends invitations for September 22nd event


Nikon sent invitations in the Netherlands for an event on  September 22nd. The event will take place on a Friday which is an unusual day for Nikon to introduce new products, but somehow I think the new D850 DSLR camera will be ready to be displayed by then.

Update - there is another Nikon event in Germany on September 23rd:


Nikon will also hold two fan meetings in Tokyo (August 26th) and Osaka (September 2nd). It will be interesting to see if the D850 will be on display on those dates.

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  • Nemmondom Meg

    Hope not just 850 as it seems to be it is a very poor birthday so far. No 400mm f4 ot f5.6 fresnel, or 600mm f5.6 fresnel lens nothing what is cool usable can grow the nikon impact.

    • Jacek Siminski

      500 5.6 at an affordable price (around 2k dollars)

      • There is a 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR for $1400… Not good enough AF, optics? Buy yourself 500/4.0.

        It’s not like Nikon is not giving you a choice…

        • Jacek Siminski

          Got the 200-500, loving it.

        • Nemmondom Meg

          I have the sigma 150-600, and i am kind of disappointment. I dont know i cant use it well, it is a bad copy, or i just expect from it too much. So I am even afraid to sell it and pay that much for But the point here would be that the lens is tiny wee. You can bring a high quality prime to a travel. (and as prime, it is easier to fine tuning)

          • Lladnar

            I have the C version and like it a lot. I have the dock to fine tune it but haven’t bothered yet, but will eventually. I read it does best around 400mm at about f/8-f/9. I’m getting better results the more I use it and I think after calibration it will improve even more. I just viewed some bird images on the web yesterday taken with the Canon version of it and they were nice and sharp without any post sharpening filter applied, and near perfect when it was (without being overdone to become grainy). Consider using the dock, I definitely need to on my 18-35mm f/1.8 because of obvious back focus issues.

            • Nemmondom Meg

              i did that bt might be not perfect, for me 600 is very soft and if the bird is further than 20 meters it is like a painting even on 400. if the bird is close it can make brilliant pics. can it be air humidity what it does not tolerate well??

            • Lladnar

              Not sure without seeing what you mean. Maybe you’re not hitting focus? Depending on your camera body, that could be possible. The bird shots I saw were from rain forests which I assume were quite humid. I’m currently only shooting w/DX cameras so I’m not able to witness its sharpness on an FX, which should be better in the center. I shot the moon one night at 600mm and it was good but was hoping for sharper, however there was a slight breeze and at 900mm effective zoom I believe it was causing the camera to move a little on my tripod.

            • ITN

              With the USB dock, it is possible to adjust the focus separately for different focal lengths and distances. You can also adjust focus speed. These may help a bit in your situation.

              Hand holding at 500mm or 600mm is difficult and even if you can do it, the results aren’t likely to be as good as using a tripod.

              Atmospheric humidity, temperature variations and air pollution may degrade the image at longer distances and the higher magnification of a 600mm lens makes this more obvious.

              If you’re photographing a moving subject with a long lens, you may need to use a fast shutter speed (say 1/800s to 1/2000s).

      • Vince Vinnyp

        I don’t think we will see fresnel and affordable in the same sentence soon. I would love a lightweight 400 5.6 prime and fresnel would be great but I would expect to pay a lot for the privilege which might make it a niche lens.

        • nwcs

          No, but a 500 5.6 PF would be awesome. We know they won’t do a 400 5.6 PF but 500 would be well differentiated from the 300 and the 500 f4. Maybe $3000.

          I just picked up the 300 PF yesterday and I’m amazed at its compactness and weight. I’m looking forward to trying it out soon.

          • Nemmondom Meg

            Canon has 400 f5.6 and everyone loves it. With Fresnel, it would be a game changer, light small. Of corse 500 f5.6 is grand as well 🙂

            • nwcs

              Oh, I agree. It is just that Nikon is less likely to do it. But a 500 f5.6 PF would be great! Especially when you factor in travel restrictions and the need for length in wildlife photos.

            • Jacek Siminski

              Exactly. Canon also has a 400/f4 which is also quite awesome.

              500 5.6 in a format of the 300 f4 PF VR would be an awesome shot. It would probably be lighter than the 200-500, which would make air-travel with such lens less of a nuisance.

            • A 500 5.6 prime that wasn’t smaller than the 200-500 would be ridiculous.

        • Thom Hogan

          If you want 400mm f/5.6 just get the 300mm f/4E and then find a TC-14EIII that works well with it (some do, some don’t). Now that I have that combo that works, I’m impressed by what I can get with it. I no longer need a dedicated 400mm f/5.6.

          Yes, this is the only lens+TC I’m still using, though I’ll sometimes use the 14E on the 400mm f/2.8.

          That said, for a company that made a lot of telephoto options in the film era at different apertures, Nikon seems to have gone mostly into an exotic-or-zoom mode in the digital era. It wouldn’t hurt them to have some additional options.

          • Vince Vinnyp

            I have that combo and I think you may be right.

            • Thom Hogan

              Well I know I’m right for the combo I have. But the problem with TC’s is that it’s a little like Russian Roulette. Some combinations are lethal, not useful.

      • Mauro Schramm

        They could launch a super tele for APS-C.

      • Yeah, the 200-500 ƒ/5.6 is a stellar performer. The only weak spot is AF speed, and that hasn’t stopped me in real world use for sports. Maybe slow zoom cams? It’s one of the sharpest lenses I’ve ever used. And the price is right!

        As someone else said, the only step up is a fixed 500/4, and I’m not convinced it could be much sharper or smaller. Though that’s one of the few I haven’t actually used, so I can’t say.

        By way of comparison to everyone else, Nikon has scant gaps in it’s lens line. It’s only weakness IMO, is price. And that, only no a couple models (the new 24-70VR comes to mind…)

    • HotDuckZ

      400, 500, 600 f/4.5 PF, my wish.

      • Nemmondom Meg

        i wold be happy with 5.6 to make them cheaper. still they would might be able to handle a 1.4 tc

    • Spy Black

      It would be nice if, considering that F symbol there, they also pulled a Df2 out of their ass…

    • Andrew

      This birthday has been wonderful! Many folks have their awesome D500. Now the Nikon 100 year anniversary birthday present is the D7500 for prosumers and the D850 for professionals.

      Once you own any of these cameras, they are going to be top performers for years to come. The D800 was a nice camera but Nikon needed to fix a few things by giving us the D810. The D7200 is also a nice camera (Bigger Buffer, AF System) but not a really big upgrade from the D7100.

      But now with the D7500 and D850, they incorporate massive innovations from the D500 and they will be for keeps for exceeding the needs of many photographers for years to come. You will get a nice AF system, amazing motion tracking, and amazing low light focusing; all with a wonderful ergonomically nice body and hand-grip. So a very nice 100 year anniversary indeed!

      • br0xibear

        Peter…
        Is this some sort of new Disqus advertising in the comments section ?

        • I don’t see anything. In the comments section?

        • oh, I think I got the joke 🙂

          • br0xibear

            Lol !

        • Andrew

          It is indeed 😉 It is targeted at you so that you can dream up some new concept pictures for us to admire.

          And while you are anxiously trying to get support – I don’t know what’s up with you, and not paying attention to the details – though not everyone is detailed oriented, I am responding to a senseless comment about a “poor birthday” which is absolutely a view that I do not share.

          • Thom Hogan

            The pushback you’re getting is simple: Nikon has a lot to celebrate in their past 100 years. No problems with that. But they are not currently posed to have a great next 100 given their competitive position in the marketplace and their poor customer support.

            Nikon is bleeding user base and market share DESPITE those two excellent cameras you mention (and, of course, we’re assuming that one of them is excellent ;~).

            Nikon is shrinking. I’ll give them full marks for being the only big public company I’ve seen that can shrink to almost half size in five years and still manage to hold onto margins, profit, and other financial fundamentals. But there is no sign that the shrinkage is over, and the net result of all the cost cutting to hold margins has come exactly at the expense of customer relations. Another five years of that and Nikon won’t have a full second 100 years.

            • Andrew

              Total camera sales climbed from (a) 43.4 million in 2003, (b) to 121.5 million in 2010, and (c) back down to 24.2 million in 2016. DSLR sales in 2012 were 1.6 million, and in 2015 was down to 650,000. With regards to the Compact camera market, in 2010 about 108 million cameras were sold and in 2014 that number was down to 29 million.

              Such a precipitous drop would overwhelm any business plan. Smartphones by themselves cannot be the only culprit for this drop as they cannot compete against compact zoom or DSLR cameras. And now Nikon is being asked to fix the ship in the midst of this hurricane of decreasing market size. The question we should ask ourselves is why did camera sales spike all of a sudden from 43 million to 121 million and is the drop to 24 million explanable? The answer is simple. Many people became flush with cash and simply splurged and bought cameras by the boatloads while companies like Nikon and Canon offered fantastic holiday camera bundles at low prices. Subsequently, the camera market dropped to 24 million because a lot of the cameras were simply too good to be replaced by consumers with newer offerings. I wonder how many people are still using their early series D3000 cameras, including the Nikon D90 and D7000 cameras? The image quality and features like 1080p video in later model cameras were of such high quality that now people could hold on to their cameras for much longer.

              Was Samsung a major factor influencing events in the camera market? Then in 2009, Samsung had increased sales to 12% of the global compact camera market. Subsequently, in 2010, they came out with the NX10 14.6 MP APS-C mirrorless camera. Their goal was to gain 50% of the mirrorless market. If they had succeeded, then Nikon, Canon, and especially Sony would have been impacted especially if mirrorless cameras took a larger share of the camera market. Samsung always posed a threat to the bottom line of these established camera makers. And no doubt may have influenced Nikon and Canon to offer cheap camera bundles to maintain market share thus diluting the market.

              Fortunately Samsung has left the camera market and may indeed have sold their mirrorless technology to Nikon as previously rumored (though Nikon has developed its own homegrown technologies.). Samsung’s exit was good news for Nikon as the main player in Mirrorless is now Sony with a light foray from Canon.

              With all of these competitive battles, market upheaval, and experiments by Nikon releasing all types of innovative camera products, Nikon should be wiser and more experienced in handling the challenges of the future. So the next 5 years should be a period of optimism for anyone invested in Nikon camera equipment. Introducing a new generation of mirrorless cameras should help boost their sales. But I think the biggest challenge for Nikon and the other camera makers is that there are too many high-quality cameras out there in consumer hands that are simply good enough and so boosting sales even back to the 2003 level of 43 million would be a challenge. So the fight for Nikon should be to increase market share unless the global economy lends a helping hand 😉

            • Hans98Ko

              I was reading this with interest because you did put out some interesting product ramp figures and so was thinking about it.
              One thing I noticed about the years you put out; 2003, 2010 and the recent 2016. These dates have something to do with one thing or the other like 2003 was just a few years after the start of what we now called digital photography. I remembered my very first digital camera in late 1999 or early 2000. It was easy to use and many people including my colleagues at work and my wife at home like to use it too, because you just press the button to take a picture and if you don’t like it just press another button to delete it and then try again. This could be the main reason that digital photography ramped up so fast.
              The next date on your list is 2010 where it peak is also just 2-3 years after the global financial crisis 2007-2008. Normally the effects of a down turn will usually take a couple of years to be felt by consumers. I remembered at that time around 2008, I posted somewhere on a photographic forum, I think is FM saying that many photographers will be affected and will loose their jobs and so will affect their purchasing power. Many don’t agree with me at that time of course but time did reveal the effects.
              Since 2010 cameras on smartphones are so much better and popular that many who used to use small and low end digital cameras also permanently switched and never look back. So here I think it is very difficult to ever see that kind of ramp again in stand alone digital cameras. All things have a ramp, then a peak, a plateau, and finally a down hill. And that is exactly what we are seeing here. So no one company can say they can have a ramp forever, not Canon, not Nikon and definitely not Sony. Who knows someday, someone coming up with something will totally replace digital cameras?

            • Hans98Ko

              I was reading this with interest because you did put out some interesting product ramp figures and so was thinking about it. Those dates you put up; 2003, 2010 and the recent 2016 do have some relationship with some of the global events that affects digital photography.
              Take for example 2003, that was only a couple of years after consumer digital photography took off. I recalled that I bought my first digital camera sometime between late 1999 and early 2000. People like my colleagues at work and my wife at home like it. Because it is so easy to use compared to film cameras. One just need to press a button to take the picture, if one doesn’t like it, press another button to delete it and retake it again until one like it.
              The next date is 2010 which was just a couple of years after the start of the 2007-2008 global financial crisis. I recall that I posted somewhere which I think was either on PopPhoto or FM that I said that many photographers will loose their jobs and will affect their purchasing power. Of course many do not agree with me at that time, but time did reveal the truth.
              Next is 2016 which is about 16-17 years after the start of camera phones. Cameras on smartphones are getting so good that many people who used to own small and low end DSLR switched and never look back.
              Here we see a ramp, a peak, a plateau as sales flattened out, and then finally the down hill fall like all products. No product can go up hill forever, not film cameras, not digital cameras and definitely not DSLR or mirrorless, just like no company can be on top forever, not Agfa, not Kodak, not Fujifilm, not Contax, not Rollei, not Leica, not Nikon, not Canon, and definitely not Sony. Someday, someone will comes up something new to replace this format that I am sure of unless research and development stop completely.

            • Thom Hogan

              You all seem to be forgetting that not only did I predict this swing back in 2003, but I had a prescription for mitigating it. That was my role in Silicon Valley: figuring out what was going to happen before it actually happened, and how you reposition products so as not to have the market collapse.

              In essence, all the camera makers missed the smartphone swing. And it’s not just that the smartphone has a camera, it’s that the smartphone changed how photos are shared. Nikon and the camera companies all missed that turn and are STILL missing it, Snapbridge notwithstanding.

              You also characterize the mirrorless market incorrectly. At present, in unit volume, Canon has the #1 share, Sony #2. In dollar volume it probably is the other way around, though there aren’t good figures to calculate that.

              Finally, you suggest that Nikon should fight to win back market share. Their stated position at the moment is the opposite of that: they are not trying to maintain market share. And it shows in their numbers.

              Bottom line is as I’ve been writing for a long time: Nikon management is to blame for Nikon’s camera problems. They spent significant resources on Nikon 1, KeyMission, and DL, for instance, with negative return. The D3xxx and D5xxx are now hemorrhaging, partly due to lazy updates. Cost cutting managed to hurt them with the D600 and D750, which have had massive recalls (which I’m sure they blame on their supplier).

            • Andrew

              You really have not said anything here that I disagree with, so thumbs up 😉

            • PhilK

              Do not discount the impact of 2 gigantic natural disasters that Nikon was disproportionately impacted by.

              None of their Japanese competitors had their sole Japanese camera factory at basically ground-zero of the disastrous earthquake/tsunami along with the subsequent electrical grid problems and various other issues, nor to my knowledge did any other Japanese camera companies have the kind of dependency Nikon had on a Thai coastal manufacturing facility the way Nikon did. (Making basically the rest of their DSLRs)

              Those 2 things were basically just bad luck.

              That’s not to say that Nikon hasn’t made bad decisions, because they have, but I think those 2 things made matters at least 50% worse than they would have otherwise been.

            • Thom Hogan

              Sorry, but I don’t buy the “dog ate my homework scenario.”

              First, let’s get some things straight. Sony’s main camera plant at the time of the Thailand flood was just up the street from Nikon’s. Moreover, Sony had numerous other parts components being made in that area, more so than Nikon. Canon was the only major player that wasn’t directly disrupted, but even they got shutters from a plant that was flooded.

              The earthquake/tsunami impacted Nikon’s Sendai plant, the plant in which they typically only build the single digit bodies. Yes, this disrupted the D4 schedule, but frankly the bigger disruption really came in lenses (and for both Canon and Nikon, as lens production in the area requires 24/7 power).

              The most recent earthquake didn’t disrupt Nikon much (unless the DL schedule was disrupted by it). They were using a different plant for their sensors (the old Toshiba plant), not the one that was affected. That quake was disproportionate on Canon 1″, Olympus, and Sony.

              So I’m not going to buy your disproportionate problem theory. Yes, bad luck and yes these things did certainly disrupt Nikon, but not uniquely a Nikon problem. And we’re talking mostly about manufacturing here. You’d think a little more time before delivering product would IMPROVE the engineering and marketing efforts on the product, as those groups weren’t disrupted and ended up with more time to prepare product for market.

            • PhilK

              They were most definitely major disrupted by the Tohoku earthquake and Thai tsunami, and were the only camera manufacturer I know of whose major Japanese production was right on the coast where the tsunami hit. (I believe the Sendai plant also makes some of their higher-end lenses as well)

              I didn’t know Sony had a flooded Thai camera plant – hadn’t read that news anywhere – but whether or not Nikon was entirely unique in their business interruption, they were most certainly highly affected, and a much smaller company with presumably fewer resources to fall back on than companies like Canon or Sony.

              Re: “more time to deliver product” – I doubt it works that way in reality. When all your projects and schedules are disrupted and staff is being reassigned everywhere to patch all sorts of new disaster-related problems (not to mention trying to hire people to replace employees who were either lost or unable to work in Sendai after the Tohoku disaster), I doubt the atmosphere is like some kind of extra vacation-time where product planners can kick back and relax and dream of more perfect product ideas. 😉

            • Thom Hogan

              Sendai at the time made D3 and D700 cameras and was preparing to make the D4. The quake/tsunami was the primary reason why the D4 did not appear the August before the Summer Olympics, as usual. To my knowledge, no lenses were assembled at Sendai, they’re assembled in Tochigi. The Tochigi plant, like Canon’s nearby lens plant, was definitely affected, primarily by power issues.

              Copal, the shutter maker, Nikon, and Sony all had plants that were in the flooded area in Thailand. The Nikon plant made virtually all the other DSLRs and some lenses. The Sony plant made much of the mirrorless series and a few other cameras, as well. I believe Sony also had a semiconductor plant in the affected area.

              Nikon is not a small company. What it had at the time was all its eggs in few baskets. They’ve changed that somewhat since those disasters (including improving the plants abilities to withstand things like floods), but I’d say that Nikon still has far too many eggs in the Thailand basket. Disruption there would disrupt quite a bit of their business if it happened again.

            • Luca Motz

              I actually do believe that smartphones are the sole reason. I’m sitting here telling a friend that there is no point in buying an entry level camera. And surely not Nikon. I know lots of people who want a nice camera. But go ahead and tell them they will actually have to spend double the money they spent on their cameras on lenses. Their excitement dies down veeeery quickly

            • Andrew

              Your friends really do not have to spend double their money on lenses, you are misleading your friends 😉 What you are saying is that if they spend $500 on their camera they will then have to spend an additional $1000 on lenses which is nonsense. What for, a total of $1,500?

              Nikon has been offering awesome deals on their entry-level DSLR cameras at $549 bundled with two quality lenses: 18-55mm and 55-200mm Lens Kit. See B&H deal below.

              Try taking pictures with your smartphone in low light situations and all you get are grains with poor colors. And what about zooming in close to a distant subject with a smartphone? When they realize that you have been giving them bad advice they will not be pleased with you.

              It is folks like you that cause me to repeat myself often in these posts as if I do not have anything better to do. I dislike people being misled with false information. Do not act like an expert when you are not knowledgeable about what you are talking about. Send your friends to their local camera dealers for advice and get them to visit a few places so that they are not mislead. But please let them know of these amazing bundle prices and that they do not have to spend over $600 for a camera with some great kit lenses. OK, at least you voiced your view which is great as no one is perfect, not even I 😉

              Ref: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1119766-REG/nikon_13473_d3300_dslr_camera_with.html

            • Luca Motz

              That’s what you get wrong though. We’re talking about 250 for a camera here. And yes you will have to spend another 500 to get what you want out of your camera. Kit lenses? Are you kidding me? Compared to a mobile phone you lose about 3-4 stops so why the hell would they spend 500 bucks for nothing? Yes you get to zoom but that’s not what those people are looking for. Yes you get more control but that’s not what those people are looking for. Yes you get better ergonomics for photography but that’s actually a negative for them.
              So get off your high horse and try some mathematics first before you go all smart on someone. A DX body with a kit lens for that money is NOT significantly better than smartphones if you don’t care about the zoom

            • Luca Motz

              So apparently Peter thought it necessary to remove my post (which didn’t contain a single swear word or insult or whatever but oh well. I guess we don’t live in a free country where we get to say our opinion).
              Anyways I’m not going to write this all out again so I’m just gonna say: Do the maths yourself and you’ll see.

            • I did no remove any posts, it was probably marked as spam. I will check.

            • Luca Motz

              In that case I’m very sorry for that statement! I was just very very disappointed because I thought you did remove it. I’m a loooong time reader and just today gave in to the urge to start commenting (never wanted to do so because reading the comments is a huge time sink in and of itself 😉 )
              Anyways sorry for the accusation then and keep the good stuff coming!
              I also blame you for spending my money on the D850 instead of the mirrorless offering from Nikon btw. Can’t wait 😛

            • Can you please refesh the page and make sure your post is there? Sometimes it takes a bit longer for the post to appear.

            • Luca Motz

              I did and it is not showing up still. The original answer to your question was detected as spam though! 😛
              I don’t know I’m not liking this chat so far haha 😀
              Might just be on my end though? If you see my post?

            • Luca Motz

              Yes I do.

            • So nothing is missing?

            • Luca Motz

              No all good! Just wasn’t showing up on your site (now does). Seems like it simply takes a looong time to sync. Thanks for clearing this up!

      • John-F

        … And most likely, with the new D850 you will also get encrypted white balance metadata in NEF files, just like with the D800, D5, D4, D3, D2 (and every DSLR since the D2 series).

        Which means that if you want to shoot RAW with the new D850 (which would be the real reason for getting such a camera), you will have to use Nikon software to get optimal image quality. One more reason why pros are still sticking with Can… cameras.

        Let’s hope the 4K video in the D850 will be better than what Canon has come up with in their latest offerings …

        • Spy Black

          I work with Nikons and Canons in studios, and the Canon’s color is total shit. So encrypted or not, we get far superior color from Nikons, out of both Capture One and Lightroom/Camera Raw.

          • Amir

            Yep! I spend less time working with Capture One and Lightroom/Camera Raw on Nikon images(D810),rather Canon images(5DSR).

          • Lladnar

            I was getting crap color from Lightroom until I realized it was defaulting to Adobe RGB profile instead of from in camera. Was so pissed after spending all that time fiddling with the adjustments to fix what was just a dropdown box away, lol. My fault I guess for not learning everything about it before processing thousands of shots. Capture One is a pretty spot on program from the limited time I’ve been using it, although I’m missing some of the tonal sliders LR has that CO lacks.

            • Yes. The first thing I did when I started working/learning on Lr( used capture nx previously) was to search internet about getting at camera profile in LR. A couple more days tweaking the profile (I use mostly portrait profile as start point) to match closely with my usage scenarios. Never looked back towards NX.
              Since recently contemplating of shifting to capture 1 pro as it gives pleasing results as it is even without camera profiles in auto mode. May will start doing some serious trial when I get D850. (waiting, money in hand)

            • Lladnar

              Never used NX as I read too many complaints. Different shots can yield different results with each program/profile. A small percentage of mine actually looked better with the Adobe standard than the default camera profile, and also back and forth between LR and C1. I’ll get around to making my own profile eventually for each camera.

            • It will make all the difference. And give close to faithful working result.

          • Thom Hogan

            I would say that if you’re getting total shit for color, you’re probably not creating your own lighting profiles.

            • Spy Black

              We’ve tried a lot of things, we always get excessive red, especially in artwork. Massive sometimes with some artwork. We almost don’t have to do jack with the Nikon. Just shoot and some mild color balances and we’re done, straight out of the camera. With product shots we don’t have to do anything at all to the Nikon images, other than silo work needed for catalogs. In and out.

            • Thom Hogan

              What that tells me is that you’re not using a proper profiling, or you’re simply relying on converters to do all the heavy lifting for you.

              A DSLR, no matter who makes it, is an input device with a color capture that exceeds what your display can show you. Like any input device, you need to either make proper assumptions about it or profile it correctly.

              Granted, not a lot of people know how to do that properly nor is it the simplest of tasks to do, as differences in lighting = differences in color collection. Still, I don’t have this problem with Canon DSLRs.

            • Spy Black

              Yeah, we just took the path of least resistance. The Nikon files work right out of the box. What’s the point?

            • Spy Black

              …additionally, we were not privvy to resources you may have used. The company I freelance for is the kind where you need to pull hens teeth for anything. We had to jump hoops just to update x-rite charts.

        • Thom Hogan

          This is hyperbole at best.

          Yes, Nikon’s WB info is not open text. But virtually every software company has access to the the information in Nikon’s WB data, including Adobe.

          What you’re more likely seeing is Adobe’s lame attempts to make Nikon color fit into the Adobe color model. But that’s easily fixed: just make your own profile.

    • PhilK

      When it comes to which lenses they choose to release, I assume Nikon is just trying to manage limited resources.

      And when it comes to tele primes, they would be correct that the absolute most important segment are the state-of-the-art, fast/sharp models. This is one of the top 2 or 3 things that set them apart from every other camera competitor other than Canon. If Nikon falls behind in that regard, they will suffer greatly, and become quick prey to Sony, perhaps others.

      So while I would also like to see some smaller/cheaper tele primes, in most cases I think they can cover that segment reasonably well with zooms, as long as the zooms are good. The 200-500 seems to have been pretty well received, for example.

      • Nemmondom Meg

        I don’t rally agree on that. Nikon is in crisis. Camera industry is in crisis. They should give something what phones are not capable at all, and Nikon should give something what can be tempting for lot of ppl, and atract ppl from other brands. Bridge cameras are selling well, with those huge zooms, but to be honest U use those zoom between 20mm- 135mm and than the very long end mostly. So if they release a budget long prime, what is way superior to those bridge zooms, way smaller than a 200-500 it is something non professional nature photographers would kill. Fresnal lens are proved in the new 300 f4. It is good lens, fast and very small. Though overpriced. I think the same 400 f4 – f5.6, 500 f5.6, 600f6.3 Can be really good opportunity for them. Fresnel isn ot giving as good iq as the normal ones, 1-2 stops slower lens so there is not even like they canibalising their own pro market. But even if they do, now the goal is to let more ppl to use the nikon brand, even if the profit margine gets smaller the mass of the new orders can let them to have decent overall income, and they are securing their place. In its current stand i give less than 10 years to the nikon to disapeare. And it takes only that lond as they has the glass. But it is just the mather of creating a good smart adapter to sony or fuji and they are gone.

        • PhilK

          If you want an example of “giving something that phones are not capable of at all”, then high-end lenses are the most obvious example of that.

          I sincerely doubt that Nikon is going to lure someone who has never shot pictures on anything other than a smartphone by producing a new, eg $1,500 400/5.6 tele lens to put on their as-yet-unpurchased $2,000 DSLR. (Along with whatever collection of more generally useful focal lengths they might choose to have) Especially when they can buy a quite good 200-500 Nikkor zoom for the same price, which for most people (particularly people who have never used a dedicated camera) would be vastly more useful and flexible than a 400 5.6 prime lens.

          That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be nice to have small/light/relatively inexpensive long tele prime options too, for us advanced shooters that already have a large collection of lenses.

          (I still have an old 400/5.6 ED AIS lens that I keep around for that occasional need. But honestly even I would probably get a 200-500 next rather than a 400 prime because I just don’t use it often enough to lug such a lens around for the rare shot that a 200-500 might not be able to do an perfect job on.)

          • Nemmondom Meg

            Why i think it would be attractive that check how small is the 300 Fresnel lens. A 400 or 500 f4 or 5.6 Fresnel could be 1/3 of the size of the 200-500, and faster, better quality, able to handle tc. You are right that it will lure only experienced ppl, as non experienced will be seduced by the zoom flexibility. However – and i am not pro or anything like that – for me wide zooms are brilliant. than there is a gap from 35 – about 200 i don’t really want zoom. 35mm 50mm 105mm macro is enough for me there. Yes it is 3 lens instead of one, less flexible? I don’t think weight size altogether smaller than a 70-200, and a each lens are bit more specialized so renders better result. (however i had a 80-200 but it might be a bad copy but i really hated it was too soft for any usage) But again i like nature and lendscape photography, maybe that is why i din’t like middle zooms. (70-300g vr whoever says whatever i think it is terrible soft, disgusting rendering especially on the long end). But the long part is interesting again. I noticed I barely use my sigma 150-600 bellow the max zoom. Ok It is not true i use it on 500 all the time because it is unusable bad above it. so most likely with a Fresnel 400 what is small enough and can take tc well, i would be very much ok, wouldn’t need any zoom. Fullframe, DX, nikon 1, would be my zooming :). Ok it become a long post. I know everyone likes the 200-500. It is just my question does everyone really use it bellow 500? If you have a 1/3 size 500mm you have space to have a lens for the lower focal length, what can does it better. (Maybe it is just a zoom vs prime arguement? I think not, i like zoom, but in wildlife i would say 99% of my time I ma on the longest side of the lens and still cropping, so I just don’t think the teoretical flexibility of a zoom really gives benefit here)

  • Sergiu Zboras

    Makes sense since D850 will be(rumored) on display in October.

  • FountainHead

    Obviously the D850 is a big deal.
    But is there any chatter about anything in-addition-to?

    • Nemmondom Meg

      My problem with the 850 is, maybe few ppl will upgrade to it who need the speed over the 810. The rest who want to go to Nikon high resolution cams will buy the used 810 or keep it if they have (that means no money for nikon). But it is not attracting more ppl to nikon tribe. And they need it as their profite is declining. They need something next to this.

      • Jim

        Everything we know about this camera is an improvement. Those will are looking to upgrade will probably be happy to do so. Not sure what you’re looking for that will “bring more people to Nikon” – if this camera meets its spec expectations it will be top of its class. And it looks like mirrorless is coming. Sooo.. what are you looking for?

        • Thom Hogan

          I understand his point. Particularly since I’ve been measuring “Nikon dropouts” for some time now.

          The D800->D810->D850 progression tends to keep the faithful at that level faithful. But that’s only one camera among many. Nikon has fumbled the D3xxx, D5xxx, and to some the D7xxx progression. The D610 is long overdue for a followup. The D750 is a recall mess. The D500 should have had significant firmware updates by now but hasn’t.

          So it’s difficult for anyone to say that Nikon is seriously attracting new users to the F-mount at the moment, while it’s clear that we’re seeing people attracted to the XF and FE mounts and Canon doesn’t seem to have any trouble keeping people in the EF mounts.

          Simply put, Nikon’s 25% drop in market share (yes, it’s that large, and it happened in only a few years) seems to tell the story that @nemmondommeg:disqus is reciting: no new tribe members are coming.

          That has implications for all of us, even those of us who are happy with our D5, D500, D850. Since lens sales tend to be a 1.7x multiple of body sales, that means fewer lens sales, too, and eventually, fewer new lenses.

          • The recent results suggest that Nikon’s top end products are still doing OK but the mass consumer products are declining sharply. Although these may be a major part of turnover, I imagine they have low profit margins. Some have argued that this sector is crucial for Nikon but is it?

            Haven’t they announced their intention to focus on high performance products and solutions? “Nikon will be reborn as a solution company providing superior technologies and ideas”. This is pretty much the sort of move that IBM made when hardware became to much of a commodity and ceased to be profitable.

            Let’s hope that if there are fewer new lenses that this will be because Nikon concentrate on high spec products. If the consumer market for cameras is declining in favour of smart phones, what is the point in spending important resources on the development of new products in this sector.

            Photography enthusiasts are very much a minority although everyone makes images. Most people seem very happy with their phone which is always to hand. I don’t see there being much chance of many new tribe members whatever route Nikon goes. I don’t think mirrorless or other developments will reverse the decline although there may be a temporary boost. Didn’t Nikon hint that they might enter the smartphone business some time back? Its too late for that now.

            I’m not saying Nikon is finished. I certainly hope not. I want them to be a strong profitable company that still makes excellent cameras and lenses for serious photography.

            • Enthusiast market-entry cameras- as we call it makes up a huge volume, and even if it is low profit, it makes most of the profits. And don’t forget that even 1/10th of that buyer gets a better camera later on, that one has bought other brand than nikon earlier and so has a maximum chance of sticking to his existing camera brand. Also every camera buyer (no matter what level) is a living advert of his camera company and is capable of making further vocal sales. Also the perception that one company has most presence in the market enhances its quality in newbies’ minds. If everybody buys this, it got to be good… Right? Of course products like leica are an obvious exception.

            • My point is that the entry level camera market is heavily in decline. Nikon seem to have realised this hence their stated change of direction. Their revenue is decreasing by a forecasted 38 billion Yen year on year but they are managing to project an increase in their operating profit of 9.9 billion Yen. How? “By fixed costs reduction through restructuring and focus on high value-add products”. Their words not mine.

              I don’t disagree that entry level cameras have helped to recruit new members for the Nikon tribe. Sadly the indications are that this is not working well anymore.

            • However entry market declines, it will still be more than pro market. And no novice(except for rich ones) will directly buy a high end camera or lenses. The least they would buy is a D7xxx. And for getting new recruits, it is necessary for Nikon to think a bit about entry level cameras. They think a lot about entry level lenses. Too much in fact 🙂

          • Andrew

            If Nikon’s 25% drop in market share is among those getting entry level DSLR cameras like the D3000 and D5000 series including their CoolPix compact cameras, that that is easily fixed. Nikon needs better marketing. But then again, that is not an easy fix as Nikon is not known for their marketing 😉

            • Thom Hogan

              We’re talking ILC market share. That means J5 and D3xxx on up. The “fix” does not appear to be marketing, as the D3400 is arguably the best, lowest cost ILC on the market and Nikon’s sales on it did not change the numbers significantly. Given Canon’s 70% increase in mirrorless sales due to the M5/M6 combo, one might surmise that Nikon’s problem is something more existential than just better marketing.

              The Coolpix/KeyMission/compact line is having the same problem, but was not what I was referring to.

            • Andrew

              Well one thing we can say is that Nikon has not brought some key products to market vis-a-vis the DL series and the late arrival of a strong arsenal of mirrorless cameras which we are still expecting. And the Nikon A disappeared without a hint of regret. So inevitably their sales are going to lag because the more “potential” products that are missing from their lineup, the lower their revenue.

              Delaying products, missed product opportunities, and downright product cancellations is not the recipe for a vibrant revenue growth. So that is well understood.

              But as you said, Nikon has 5 years to fix things and I suspect they will do just that in the next 12 months as all of these areas needing product updates would likely be addressed. At some point Nikon will get its act together and it looks as if they now have the technology to revamp their entire product lineup. But at least we cannot fault them for not trying and there is no way they will keep repeating the same mistakes 😉

            • Thom Hogan

              I’m not sure where I wrote that Nikon has five years to fix things. They don’t. Under current trends, Nikon and Sony will equalize market share in the next two to three years. Given Sony’s propensity to make more noise and get more Internet amplification of that noise, Nikon has their work cut out for them.

              I also don’t believe that a new Nikon mirrorless system will ship in the next 12 months.

            • Very true: “Given Sony’s propensity to make more noise and get more Internet amplification of that noise”

      • sandy

        This is going to be a seminal camera for Nikon. If it comes in under $3600 as spec’d here it will sell in truck loads with long waiting lines.

        • Aldo

          I hope you are right.

        • ITN

          I agree.

        • Thom Hogan

          “Truck loads” is a relative term. Yes, the D850 as rumored in spec should sell well, at least as well as the D810. But Nikon’s market share is down and headed even further downward if we’re to believe Nikon’s own forecasts for the coming year.

          Having one or two hot products but a boat load of not so hot products is still a problem for Nikon.

      • Luis F. Vidal

        If you keep thinking that ‘not many people’ are going to upgrade then you’ll see product refreshes every 8 years. First, people don’t think of upgrade equipments based only on specs on the paper. Usually people decides when they get to try one or when the product is available and they know about some features that are not necessary selling points, but are considerable incremental upgrades. Second, you have to think of people without D800/D810’s, people that use D7XXX or other crop sensor cameras, even people with D750 that will prefer to upgrade and invest to the last thing available. Also you have to thing about the switchers, the ones that don’t have this kind of camera in Canon, etc.

      • FountainHead

        With you–my D800E is more than a match for my humble skill. But I’m happy for the better photographers who can use all the 850 improvments.

        • That’s where I think D850 will have an edge. What couldn’t be achieved with earlier D8xx i.e. FPS, tilt screen etc are not IQ components so who needs it would upgrade. Even at a price premium.

      • Mike

        Nikon cameras (and lenses) are more than just a single spec in terms of the idea of upgrading. They are often many smaller changes that add up to a nicer, more refined package than the preceding one. So the headliner of the D850 over the D810 is pixels and video and AF, but it’ll be the ergonomics, the illumiated buttons, the smaller weight, the overall flexibility of it that make it an all around improvement over the D810. Nikon is very good at improving the things you can’t measure on a chart. Those alone make for a compeling upgrade arguement.

        • Spy Black

          “They are often many smaller changes that add up to a nicer, more refined package than the preceding one.”

          That’s not always the case. Look at the 24-70 and 70-200 lenses. One step forward, two steps back. Same goes for the D7500. So not necessarily always true.

          • Mike

            I suppose it depends on what’s important to you. I have the 24-70 VR and find it quite amazing. It’s stronger, according to the reviews, outside of centre vs the non VR version. If you put people in dead centre that will pose a problem for you. Fortunately I don’t, so it works well for me. The non VR version was plagued with a reputation of light leaks and helicoid impact damage (“stiff zoom”). So far so good with the VR version. AF is blazingly fast. The D7500 is not a true successor to the D7200. The D7000 line up til now was a hybrid of the D90/D300 lineage. The D500 and D7500 follow truer to how the D70/D100, D80/D200 & D90/D300 lines used to stack up. I’ve played with the D7500 and D500 and there is no comparison. The D500 is leagues better than the D7500. The D7500 feels like a D90. Don’t look at the D7200->D7500, look at the D90 -> D7500, D7200 -> D500 and what I said stays true.

            • Spy Black

              “It’s stronger, according to the reviews…”
              Reality may be different, of course.
              “The D7500 is not a true successor to the D7200.”
              That’s the problem, now isn’t it?
              And then there’s the 70-200.
              Anyway you look at it, not every upgrade is necessarily a good one. That said, there’s plenty of good things in various Nikon products, and other than the annoying dual storage format Nikon has adopted lately, I’m sure products like the forthcoming D850 will have some great features and capabilities.

            • Thom Hogan

              The new 24-70mm is a fine lens, far better than the older one. I thought you were referring to the tradeoffs that came in getting that optical improvement, such as size.

            • Spy Black

              I was referring to more than just that, but optically it’s trade offs as well, one just decides which one they like better. The design differences of the 70-200 are now pretty well documented as well. Most people are not happy with it.

            • ITN

              Yes, the 24-70 VR has numerous advantages and some disadvantages over the old version. Pluses: 1. Better construction, 2. more even zoom ring tension, 3. better hood lock, 4. better contrast, 5. less flare, 6. better colour, 7. less field curvature at the wide end, 8. more even sharpness across the frame, 9. faster AF, 10. less color fringing in out of focus areas, and 11. the VR function. Negatives: 1. higher price, 2. larger size, 3. slightly less center sharpness in some cases e.g. close focus at 70mm. Personally I owned both for a short while but quickly found the images from the VR version to be more beautiful and the lens more pleasing to use.

            • TheInfinityPoint

              Thanks for listing out the pros and cons of the 24-70 VR. I’ve been struggling for a long time to decide whether or not it’s worth upgrading from the old 24-70 to the new one. But given your list there and my requirements (better resolution at all apertures) I think it’s clear the new version is much better. I always find the outer corner areas of the old 24-70 to be very lacking, especially at f/5.6-8, and especially when compared to my other Nikon f/2.8 zooms (14-24, 70-200 f/2.8G VR II).

              Btw you forgot to include another negative: 82mm vs 77mm filter thread sizes lol.

            • Robert

              The additional filter cost should feel less significant once you see the results from the 24-70 VR which IMO is much better than the 24-70 G (see my answer to @ITN above for details).

            • Even I came to the same conclusion from samples and reviews. Sadly cannot buy even if I want to for some time. D850 a priority. Only after that.

            • Robert

              The 24-70 VR got some mixed reviews in the beginning. After reading good reviews from two different pros who make their living from photography I decided to trade my 24-70 G for the 24-70 VR. The new lens renders beautifully with impressive bokeh and is IMO a big step forward from the old one. My own major gripes with the old lens (on the D800) were uneven sharpness (increasingly worse towards the corners) especially at 24 mm even at f/8 due to the field curvature, and that I could clearly see the astigmatism which gave a nervous rendering of details (e.g. light metal buttons on a dark jacket). These problems are completely gone with the 24-70 VR so I highly recommend it to anyone considering buying an FF midrange zoom.

          • ITN

            The D500 is the intended upgrade for D7x00 users. The D7500 is for D5x00 users, and so on. As you progress as photographer, you’re expected to want to move up to higher end gear. Only the top of the line models get all-out upgrades where Nikon holds nothing back.

            • Spy Black

              That’s why the D500 has a dual format storage system, because Nikon wants you to buy a D5…

            • Thom Hogan

              Okay, let’s say we agree with that (we do). Where in Nikon’s marketing are they saying that? ;~)

            • PhilK

              We know Nikon marketing is not always the best, and particularly at the moment when resources are being cut back everywhere.

              But also, perhaps they are between a rock and a hard place because the amateur crowd has been propagandized to expect advancing specs with every new generation and in the case of MP the D500 takes a step back in that regard – so they are uncomfy trying to convince D7xxx users to ‘upgrade’ to a camera with lower MP than what they already have, and hope they will just ‘figure it out’ if the D500 appeals to them.

            • Thom Hogan

              And how do you get out of the “propagandized advancing specs”? Marketing. Embracing consumers. Empowering consumers.

              I note that the D3400 is not only a failure due to lack of marketing, but it even fails despite having at times incredible pricing advantage. As I wrote in my review, the D3400 and the AF-P lenses are arguably the best you can buy at the cost point, and I’d say by a large margin. Yet somehow that isn’t translating into sales. And for that, you must blame Nikon marketing.

            • Luca Motz

              But isn’t that simply down to the fact that it’s a)not a smartphone and b)not mirrorless (or rather small and quiet)?
              One of my best friends just had a sit down with me because he was considering buying a camera to take better photos. He saw photos that his friends took with a Canon M10 and was impressed by the quality. He found a nice and cheap kit for the camera online and asked me if I had any suggestions. I told him it’s a great idea but that he needed to buy at least a 50mm prime (as that is dead cheap) to get the quality he wants out of the camera. When I showed him photos taken with a kit lens (those of his friends. I actually don’t even own one) he wasn’t all that impressed anymore because obviously when he compared them to his own IPhone 7 photos the difference wasn’t too big. So we looked at a 50mm on Amazon. Seeing that it was going to be at least 150€ (new) the discussion was over.
              All those so called advantages that I get from “real” cameras don’t count for him or any other non photographer out there. Better ergonomics? For them it’s worse than a Smartphone. More control? Most of them don’t even know what “shutter speed” or “aperture” is and they sure as hell don’t want to control it. Yes you get a bigger sensor and gain like 5 stops (comparing DX to an IPhone 7 and guesstimating). But that smartphone will have a lens sitting around f2 and your kit lens is probably around f5.6 or something so you lose a lot of that advantage right away. Sure being able to zoom is a real advantage and people appreciate that but when they realize you have to pull those photos from an SD card and you might wanna do some editing they are simply overwhelmed and say “I’ll stick with my Smartphone for now”

            • Thom Hogan

              You mean that marketing messages from smartphone and mirrorless camera companies say “DSLRs are dead”? ;~)

              Remember, Kodak was a whiz at marketing. The old “make sure your memories are recorded in the best possible way forever” message they used in all their marketing was a winner. Curiously, not a single one of the camera companies seem to have noted how both Kodak and Fujifilm marketing in the film era worked. It’s about the fear that you will have something inferior or even gone in the future.

              Marketing is about perceptions. The camera makers have let the perceptions of their cameras–even mirrorless–degrade.

            • Luca Motz

              Well to a certain degree I agree (that sounds weird) with you. What bothers me is that this sort of marketing would only capture the “I want to capture this moment and keep it forever” crowd (don’t get me wrong it should still be done). I would argue that you need to go beyond that though and get the “Look at this hamburger I just ordered” crowd that post their stuff to Facebook and forget about it, too. How to do that? I don’t know and it would involve a lot of money and time spent to find out. (Though that’s what the companies are supposed to do so why on earth haven’t they..)

            • Thom Hogan

              The irony, of course, is that Nikon has all the necessary parts (SnapBridge, Nikon View-NX-i, Nikon Image Space, etc.) to do everything necessary to build out a proper modern workflow that is Internet based but customer managed. Unfortunately, every piece of that is terrible in some way, and Nikon doesn’t seem to know how to connect the dots properly.

            • El Aura

              The question is how many ‘workflows’ (or rather image repositories) can co-exist? Most people pick one primary repository (eg, iCloud Photo Library, Google Photos) and then a small number of publication channels (eg, Instagram, Facebook, also Whatsapp, Twitter).

            • Thom Hogan

              Sure. This was the n^n problem I described back in 2009. But if n = 0, well…

            • El Aura

              You can look beyond Nikon, even beyond Japan and even there no third-party has cracked the image repository ‘natural monopoly’ that iCloud Photo Library or Google Photos represent.

              There are competitors, eg, Lightroom Mobile (with Creative Cloud) or Mylio. But they all cost more and only get niche audiences. Flickr, Shutterfly and others are still around but are more geared towards sharing/publishing. Others like Everpix have shut down. General file syncing services like Dropbox tried to get in with features like automatic Camera Uploads. But anything that requires an extra step to either ingest images taken with the smartphone or to select an image from apps like Whatsapp is at a structural disadvantage.

            • Thom Hogan

              As I described in 2009, you build a platform that’s agnostic and open and get the others to write the app for it. Nikon’s trying the proprietary approach, which will never work. Certainly not now. That’s exactly what Apple and Google did ;~).

            • El Aura

              There are apps that work with the iCloud Photo Library? To my knowledge, apps work only with the local copy of images contained in the Photos app which is linked to the iPhone (or iPad) hardware.

              Examples of platforms that are agnostic in regard to the operating system (ie, iOS or Android) are Facebook, Whatsapp, Twitter, Instagram, or even Lightroom Mobile, etc.. All not tied to or originating from any hardware vendor. In my view, the best, Nikon could have ever hoped to achieve was to become something like a successful version of Flickr or Everpix or maybe Lightroom Mobile. But that all would have required to write software that would work with any camera from any brand (a bit like Capture One), negating the advantage Nikon would have over other camera makers.

              And we know now that nobody has achieved to replace iCPL or Google Photos. So at best we talk about something like Lightroom Mobile. And for any Nikon camera to become a first class citizen on that platform, the same way a smartphone camera is a first class citizen.

              If Google Photos is pretty much what Nikon should have ideally achieved, how does Google Photos sell Google hardware? And how could Google Photos have achieved its position if it only ever worked with Samsung phones?

            • Thom Hogan

              Apple’s iCloud Photo Library is really just an extension of Photos. If your software links into Photos well, then whether or not the user has turned on the iCloud aspect is moot, for the most part.

              But that gets me back to my gearophile article on what I called “nests.” Apple seems to be going pretty much the route I described. Once something gets into the network of nests, it can be accessed anywhere on the network.

              The problem is that cameras aren’t linked to any nest other than by manual workflow labor of the user. And even then there may be additional workflow that has to happen.

              I don’t believe you got my point: by establishing, evangelizing, and supporting an open API, Nikon wouldn’t be writing anything specific to a platform, the platform maker would be. The only chore Nikon would have is to convince the Facebooks, Twitters, Lightrooms of the world that an installed base of millions of units was worth putting a bit of coding energy into.

              Everyone seems to want to own the database of your images. Why? Because they want to sell something against it (e.g. Facebook, Instagram, Snap, etc.). There’s no upside for Nikon (e.g. Nikon Image Space) in that realm, as they simply don’t have the mass or the business case to make money off of accumulating your images. That would be like the camera companies trying to own the stock agencies back in the film days.

            • El Aura

              “The only chore Nikon would have is to convince the Facebooks, Twitters, Lightrooms of the world that an installed base of millions of units was worth putting a bit of coding energy into.”
              And I contend that there never was even the slightest chance of that happening. Not only has Nikon not managed to get there, neither has any other camera maker. Or any more computer-savvy company like GoPro or any drone maker.

              The closest anybody might have gotten was with Flickr who’s API has been embedded (even if in the form of third-party plugins) into Lightroom and others. But Flickr is more of output channel than an input channel for LR.

              I ask again, do you have any example of somebody pulling something off even remotely similar to what you say Nikon should have done?

            • Thom Hogan

              At the extreme, yes, Apple and Google. At a lower level, Lightroom.

              It’s really a matter of numbers. When I first proposed this, Nikon certainly had the numbers that would interest some of the Internet companies (e.g. >20m units a year). Of course, as you scale volume down intentionally, as Nikon is now doing, you become far less interesting. Nikon is now only 25% of a smaller market. The case for evangelizing gets more difficult. Incredibly more difficult. It’s tyranny of numbers.

              However, a truly open API with true support would have attracted the middle-men coders. The fact that we have Instagram bots, etc., indicates that there are people coding against open APIs. The problem is that we have proprietary at one end (the camera), so third parties can’t come in to deal with the issue.

              This is where the Open Letter by Gunther comes into play. While Gunther is really only interested in a narrow angle (controlling timelapse), the lack of open APIs and support on Nikon’s part is what is holding him (and others) back, and what is keeping the middle-men coders from doing things we’d find more useful with THE EXISTING hardware.

            • Adam Brown

              Entry level market, competing with Canon SL2, Sony a6000…
              While the d3400 has some traditionalist advantages over those other cameras, I think the d3400 is the worst of the 3 especially for entry level shooters.
              Of the 3, it’s the only one without fast smooth reliable phase detect live view autofocus. That is a big deal, as people try to use it like they use their phones.
              And entry level shooters are far less wedded to the optical viewfinder than traditionalists.

            • Thom Hogan

              Not exactly true. Try AF-P lenses with the D3400 and things are very different in Live View.

            • Adam Brown

              Ok…. so where can I get an af-p 85mm prime?
              Or an af-p 2.8 zoom?

              And how’s live view continuous tracking AF?

              Unfortunately, AF-P is only a small fraction of a potential solution.

            • Thom Hogan

              And those are “entry level market” lenses? ;~)

              Your premise was competing with entry level market competitors. Now you’re trying to take that upscale. Stick to one argument at a time.

            • Adam Brown

              Lol, I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
              But continuous live view video autofocus is certainly something entry level users would appreciate (especially with nice touch screen implementation as in the Canon SL2. Sony lags behind in touch screen implementation).
              And even an entry level shooter may eye a nifty fifty lens.

              Serious question maybe you can answer — Nikon has had excellent OSPDAF for years, in the “1” cameras. Why haven’t they stuck that system into their dSLR live view? Is there a problem getting decent compatibility with f-mount lenses?
              Now that Canon is integrating Dual pixel AF into all their new cameras, this seems to be a growing disadvantage for the Nikon system.

            • Thom Hogan

              No, the correct analogy is that you’re arguing out of both sides of your mouth simultaneously.

              Look, I’ll stand by my point: with the AF-P kit lens (and other AF-P lenses, which is what the budget, entry level buyer is likely buying), Nikon really doesn’t have a deficiency in Live View focus performance any more, though tracking continuously is still a little wonkier than it could be.

              As for integrating on-sensor PD, this is trickier than it seems. On-sensor PD has geometries that aren’t nearly as accurate the DSLR PD, and most lenses up until AF-P were designed primarily for speed at long leaps to fixed points. Virtually everyone with on-sensor PD is doing some sort of followup CD confirmation, which requires lenses designed to step in small increments. Nikon wasn’t really designing all AF-S lenses for that.

              Canon’s dual pixel implementation has other implications on sensor performance. Moreover, it’s an upfront cost (which is why everything Canon now has it: distribution of fixed R&D expense). Nikon’s sensor use has been targeted differently to date, and hasn’t had a single sensor platform from which they could make monolithic changes. That may change going forward. We’ll see in 2018.

            • Adam Brown

              While I’m not claiming OSPDAF should be easy, I also find it difficult to believe it’s that hard. For years, the Nikon 1 cameras could drive F mount lenses with the FT1 adapter. While it had limitations, one would think they could have advanced it quite a bit by now.
              Sony OSPDAF can drive dSLR lenses pretty effectively — it functions well with a-mount and Canon lenses. And with the Commlite adapter, it is even effective with some Nikon f-mount lenses.
              Finally Canon– they have managed to integrate dual pixel while also increasing sensor IQ. Thus, I don’t believe it has a significant detrimental effect on sensor IQ.

              So from what I can tell… Nikon is either facing a major engineering hurdle unique to f-mount lenses, or they have foolishly opted to ignore the feature. But it does make me wonder whether we will ever see f-mount mirrorless.

              All Canon has to do — take the 6dii, rip out the mirror, add a high quality EVF… and suddenly they have a pretty good competitor to the Sony a7ii. Nikon has no clear path.

            • Thom Hogan

              Sony PD focus is one of those that do follow-up CD focus. That works with some DSLR lenses better than others, and for awhile Nikon was designing lens focus mechanisms in a way that probably was sub-optimal for that use.

              But “works” in this context is different than “works well.” At least in my opinion. I see a very clear difference in designed for FE lenses versus adapted lenses in focus performance, particularly as you start trying to do continuous autofocus.

              As for why Nikon is where they are, simple answer: somewhat lazy engineering driven primarily by cost cutting. Couple that with not being in direct communication with their user base, and you end up with the patriarchal approach we’ve had from them.

            • PhilK

              Unfortunately the propagandizing is done by almost the entire industry, so they are at the mercy of it more than in control of it for the most part.

              After I spent some years in the camera retail biz I also worked in home electronics/audio retail. I remember during the early years of Compact Disc, after the 1st/2nd generation products where everyone was just wowed by the stark difference from vinyl, manufacturers started looking for ways to differentiate their products from the competition.

              The industry started looking for new measurement techniques to differentiate different players, and discovered that DAC linearity and brickwall anti-aliasing filters were one area that could use improvement, so “oversampling” and hi-bit DACs became the next vendor buzzwords to address some of those issues. Panasonic figured out pretty soon that it was becoming hard to differentiate themselves since everyone was now doing oversampling and hi-bit DACs, so they decided to go in the opposite direction, and proclaim that their new “single-bit DAC” (really not single-bit, more like one-bit-at-a-time) was the superior choice. Not many vendors followed that path, and I doubt it helped them much, as most of the rest of the industry was still pushing a different mantra.

              I think that’s a similar issue to the incessant “MP race” in the camera business, particularly at the lower end.

              Another parallel between Nikon and Blackberry is that during Blackberry’s declining years as their sales and share price were declining, their ability to run widespread ad campaigns – even if they knew how to market themselves – was severely compromised. They simply didn’t have the funds their major competitors had to keep up any kind of major advertising presence. And mass market products are very dependent on effective advertising.

          • Current 24-70 or 70-200 are a step in the right direction. Rather it’s a correction in Nikon’s earlier wrong direction. Agreed center sharpness is reduced than before but the lens is uniformally better than before. Same with 70-200. Newer one has corrected zoom breathing and has corrected near bokeh characteristics. I would like think that next iterations will be at par with sharpness compared to earlier version and have better and balanced performance throughout the frame.

            • Spy Black

              Yes, but he majority do not like the repositioning of the zoom ring, which was definitely a bad move. So not every incarnation is necessarily an improvement.

            • That’s very true. I cannot imagine how I am supposed to hold the lens comfortably and technically correctly for longer periods when I buy it.

      • Southerndude

        I think Nikon is counting on the D850 to sell to Upgrades Enthusiasts, Pros, and anyone looking for a Medium format camera. I know that the Nikon D850 is not a true Medium format camera. but it’s very close, with the increased pixel count. There are a lot of D750 owners out there that I think will be willing to Upgrade to the D850. I’m a D750 owner and I think I’ll be upgrading to the D850 for the pixel increase, and the weather resistance features that the D750 doesn’t have.

      • Aldo

        Right? Why spend close to 4k when you can wait and get the little brother d760 (that you know it’s coming) for half the price. But I hope a lot of people buy the d850 or there wont be a little brother at all.

        • ITN

          The Multi CAM 20k is not going to fit in a D750 style chassis. In fact they couldn’t even fit a full size Multi-Cam 3500 in there, but made a smaller version to allow making a more compact body.

          Without the D5 AF module a D760 is not going to sell as well as the D850.

          • Thom Hogan

            Nikon has a long history of making lesser versions of their top AF system. I’m sure we’ll see some variation of the D5 AF module that has been trimmed for the lower cameras. The real question is whether those lower cameras get the added CPU.

        • Andrew

          Aldo, you have changed your tone. Now you are saying spare Nikon 😉 Because of that, I will pray that the AA Filter is removed from the D760. But it won’t happen if you do not permit Nikon to up the Pixel count a bit to 28 MP.

          • Aldo

            I love nikon Andrew =)

          • Most of us are saying, ” spare us the Nikon catalogue”.
            P.S. I know, I know, that is your writing style.

            • Andrew

              “Most of us”? A nation that conducts social engineering dictates how people should behave. And when we are convinced that our views are part of the prevailing mindset (or others are in agreement with us) without any scientific data, that inevitably may result in decisions being made with gross consequences.

              But at least one observation you have made is correct, and that is about my writing style 😉 My writing style is congruent to my thought processes. With always the need for clarity, I write a few more words than most.

      • Peter

        That is my concern, too. I for myself would have been an upgrader if there was something more exiting than more resolution and more speed and better video. Better dynamic range, global shutter, hybrid viewfinder or ibis are features I am looking for.

      • I will. I have my good old 750 and it has enough mileage to go. I miss the fast shutter for daytime shoots, and I don’t like that loud mirror box noise, and I don’t like that it freeze frequently for no reason. I do like the flipp screen, the comfortable grip, the smaller size and the speed. The D850 seems to me reasonable next step. Together with the D810 I am gonna have all what I could get. But yes, you are right, the new D850 will not be the camera which will makes ppl lining up front of the camera stores. I say now, that I don’t like mirror less, I don’t want mirror less for work, but all the rest say yes. And there is none from Nikon to satisfy those who wants. That could attract ppl. The D850 will remain for the leftover professionals and the dinosaurs.

  • NikonFanboy

    wow super new…tfs

  • Pablo And-Jennifer Gabetta

    Probably D850? but i’m thinking since it looks that it will be a “baby D5” this camera might cost at least us$3999, Id even say $4299…

    • ToastyFlake

      It’s an adult d500, not a baby d5, so it will be $3,499. $3,299, if we’re lucky.

      • Pablo And-Jennifer Gabetta

        I sure hope you are right…

        • ToastyFlake

          Me too 🙂 $4k just seems a lot more painful.

      • Luis F. Vidal

        If the D810 will still be selling with the D850 don’t hold your breath on a $3,299/$3,499 price tag. With those rumored specs it will be no less than $3,999, and I’m being optimistic.

    • Jim

      Nikon specifically called it a D810 successor in their release. Hopefully they make the price relatively similar.

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        Possibly on par with Canon 5D MK 4 £3499.99 / $3499.99

  • Michiel953

    I’m not going! (I live in The Netherlands)

    I’m not going.

    I’m not going…

    I may be going….

    • I think this is an “invitation only” event.

      • Allan

        Very hoity toity.

      • Michiel953

        Don’t worry, I’ll get one

        • well, then take some pictures and report back please 🙂

      • sickheadache

        I am crashing that event…but there is a big possibility that I might have a massive sick headache on that day.

  • doge

    Announcing their new bicycle.

    • Allan

      Maybe a new flavor of yokan. (I’m hoping for chocolate.)

  • Aborigene

    Does that uppercase “F” means anything?

    • ToastyFlake

      Probably just nostalgia for the Nikon F series. It’s the same big F that was on those cameras.

      • Well we can hope it’s not that other common big “F” that we use commonly sometimes!

    • PhilK

      Symbolism is very important to a company like Nikon.

      Maybe it does mean something……..

  • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

    Like to go to this Fan meeting in person lol

  • Shubhabrata Adhikary

    How about the FF mirrorless ? Any chance to announce it on these events ?

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Be good if they do / produce a mirrorless roadmap – with expected models (AFS/FF, etc) and lenses

      • Jim

        Do they ever do that?

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          no

    • sickheadache

      Yes…in your dreams.

  • br0xibear
    • NikonFanboy

      lol

    • Allan

      As Thom has pointed out, Nikon has cut back on their spending on various aspects of customer relations. This is a mistake.

      It’s better to have no “meeting”, than to have a lame meeting.

      • Nakayamahanzaemon

        Canon and Sony also closed some of their service centers.

        • decentrist

          Sony has service centers?

          • Nakayamahanzaemon

            Yup. Sony closed 7 out of 11 service centers in Japan in 2014.

            • Eric Calabros

              So we outsiders are screwed up

    • br0xibear

      Unboxing of the 100th Anniversary Miniature Nikon F…
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SeGMaxFl4w

  • animalsbybarry

    It is not hard to guess that this will be the D850

    • actually it is, this could just be a 100 years anniversary party

      • Thom Hogan

        That would be lame. They’ve been celebrating the 100th for over six months now. Enough already. Pivot to the next 100.

        • I think they had nothing to show in July, that’s why they postponed it.

          • Not even the Tees or pins? That sounds a bit too much!

            • they just started shipping those… 2 weeks later

    • I’m not sure I agree but I hope your guess is correct.

  • deepshade

    I am amazed that heads haven’t rolled. Nikons MAJOR ANNIVERSARY and NO new products launched ON that deadline. Other BADGE ENGINEERING products that are LATE. Maybe the CEO needs replacing! – Appalling public strategy and performance from a company that used to to be the epitome of quality and eastern edge.

    • Vince Vinnyp

      Well I assume once they read this they will be sacking them tomorrow, Especially as you used SO MANY CAPITALS. Thanks for your input, I assume that you say this because you have been more successful in leading a multi billion dollar company? Current market analysts think it is doing very well but now we know, the best way to improve things is to sack people. Next time you get on a plane don’t forget to let the pilot know how he can better fly the plane, or better still sack them because you wanted 2 glasses of champagne before takeoff. 😉

      • deepshade

        So if it were your job, you’ d screw up as well. Forget the caps thing – that was just for emphasis. There are occasions where things need to just happen. It didn’t. That doesnt reflect Ganbaru in any shape or form.

        • Vince Vinnyp

          I would like be happy to be judged to have “screwed up” as well as they are.
          Yes I wanted more, but i think the D850 will be well received and I think if Nikon can get a full frame or DX MILC that will work with their existing lens range they will be very well placed.
          As well as being a Nikon shooter, I do have a dog in this fight as I am a shareholder. So I am glad that in the last year they have made me 30% on my investment in addition to paying me a reasonable dividend, and no I don’t think some perceived failing to meet my and other fans wishes should lead to sacking a team who are doing pretty well.

          • deepshade

            But….and a big but… they didn’t deliver on THE most important date in their recent history (I don’t think I’ve ever use caps in the last 20 years – but Nikon have amazed me at missing such an important date). This is not about missing features and Nikon fandom. This anniversary is a mess. And if someone is being paid big bucks to manage it – they seriously messed up.

            • sandy

              It’s the Anniversary YEAR, DOOD.
              Who gives damn about a corporate DAY from 100 YEARS ago.

            • Lladnar

              They apparently celebrate April Fool’s Day all year also.

      • Andrew

        You missed the punchline, sack them while they are still in the air 😉

    • nwcs

      Better to put the product out when it is ready instead of holding to an arbitrary date. I think that an anniversary of this kind doesn’t need an anniversary product. It should be a day of cake and ice cream for the employees and some giveaways for the fans and back to work afterwards.

      • Hans98Ko

        You are so right about celebrating the 100th anniversary with their employees. That is exactly what Nikon Singapore did. And I think is the right thing to do, to encourage their employees to strafe harder during this tough times. One must understand that, it is not just Nikon being affected but almost everyone else. Sony fans might think that Sony is doing well, but as a whole the company cannot be considered as doing well. One must not look at Sony as just an imaging company.

    • There aren’t enough heads left to roll. They’re running pretty lean as is.

    • Claude Mayonnaise

      You do realize that every camera company sucks right?
      It’s true. In most cases It depends on which brand of camera you own. If you own Canon, everyone else sucks, but this isn’t even guaranteed. Canon could suck as well even if you own Canon. Camera brand sucking is very unpredictable.

  • jagigen

    Soo.
    How soon will Nikon recall the body for shutter/sensor/oil problems?
    3 weeks after first sale?
    3 months?

    They reallyy need to get it together with this release. They can not celebrate 100 years with anotehr failure. That is not an option 🙂

    • BVS

      I know your joking, but to be fair, there haven’t been any recalls so far (that I’m aware of) on their last 5 DSLR releases.

      • Lex Cross

        It’s more. The last SEVEN dslrs (7200, 5500, d5, 500, 5600, 3400, 7500) are recall free. 8 ILC’s if you count the j5. In a row. 3 years worth of announcements. No recall. But facts are annoying aren’t they.

        • BVS

          Actually, I think the D810A also came out after D750, if you count that.

        • nwcs

          A couple, like the D500 and D5 technically didn’t have recalls but they did ship with problems.

  • Ric of The LBC

    Limited edition 100 year Df soft shutter release button.

    • Allan

      How much?

      • Ric of The LBC

        $100 or course.

        Nycon, I can’t quit you.

        • nwcs

          Well, Lensmate seems to make some good money making them…

    • Aldo

      speaking of the Df… the rumors of a new Df are dead with the lackluster anniversary passing?

      • br0xibear

        I think any new Df will be a while yet, got the D5s in January and some sort of mirrorless (whenever that’ll be)…
        Df update in 2019 maybe…or maybe there won’t be any and it was a one off ?

        • Aldo

          I remember getting so excited when the Df got speculated. For a while I thought I would be working with an F3 again, but nikon screwed that up for me. I think if they don’t update the Df the ‘right’ way better they don’t update it at all.

          • br0xibear

            I think a little bit of tweaking, outside and inside, and a Df ver2 could be what many people had hoped for in the first place.
            Move some of the buttons, get rid of some, better AF module, smaller body, simplify it further and the D750 sensor…

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fdb8cf6501f74e50eaabc5a57bd5c41de35400c4fba24f7e2254ab68ddcda174.jpg

            • I like it – cleaner than the Df

            • Ric of The LBC

              Really? Analog timer?

              The form factor is fine. Quality is great. Make the dials easier to use, less locking buttons.

              The think I HATE is the vertical sub-command dial. Make is horizontal like on all the other bodies and we are in fat city.

            • br0xibear

              Analog timer…replaces all the function buttons on that side of the body, decide inside the menu what you want it to do. Push it right to do one thing, left to do another.

            • Ric of The LBC

              Ok. +1

            • Make screen small and monochrome. Pure photogrophy. Well, if they can make pure viewfinder nothing like it. But I understand it is difficult.

      • Yes, never heard anything since.

  • JXVo

    We should be due another teaser video or two before then to keep the hype machine on the boil.

    • Ric of The LBC

      the pooh pooh’ers need something to bitch about

    • ninpou_kobanashi

      Sometimes the journey is more fun than the destination!

  • nwcs

    I wish Nikon would hold a public fan event somewhere within 1000 miles of where I live… or even in the same country.

  • Allan

    lol

  • Allan

    Off topic.
    Did they put their KeyMission cameras in their museum?

    • I think the KeyMission cameras are under the museum.

    • Andrew

      If Nikon is smart which I know they are, they are now working on KeyMission 2.0. But actually, the KeyMission cameras represent three different products, the most promising of which is the KeyMission 90 which has consistently gotten 4 of 5 stars user review.

      It is a small and pocketable camera that you can hang on your belt. It has 1080p Video and 12 MP Stills, and it even has a Rear Camera taking 5 MP Stills. And while we are still at it, it comes with an Optical and Electronic Video Stabilization; and is waterproof.

      So all in all the KeyMission 90 seems like a nice camera.

      • Thom Hogan

        Not in my review it didn’t. I wouldn’t even give the KeyMission 80 even 1 star. (Where you get KeyMission 90 from is beyond me.) And by the way, on the NikonUSA site the review rating is only 3 stars, which consists of two 5 star ratings and two 1 star ratings.

        But given that GoPro is losing money and having trouble selling their cameras, what exactly has Nikon added that would let them do better? Worse still, the “record my day” market the 80 seeks has completely died, with multiple corpses of companies along the way. Dealers are pretty much in complete agreement in the US: ditch the entire KeyMission line. Many have sold zero–particularly of the 80–and NikonUSA had to do a quiet take-back of inventory.

        The shame is that the KeyMission 170 is as good as a GoPro (and may have slightly better image quality, particularly up sun). But it is a mess with SnapBridge, and the mounting accessories are a joke. The KeyMission 360 was promising, but it’s just not there yet. Too many stitch issues.

        • PhilK

          I never looked in detail at Keymission but given the timing, and the release delay, when I saw the announcement I had simultaneous feelings of happiness (that they had branched-out into something new for them – which they really need to do), and doom. (Because GoPro was already tanking and Nikon’s crappy history with software would seem to doom such a venture.)

          Given your comments about Snapbridge and stitching problems, it seems I was unfortunately right about that.

          I don’t know why they can’t just hire a good software developer to help them in an era where software is really a key part of any product that has electronic parts.

          • Thom Hogan

            KeyMission is one of those things that make you wonder if Nikon actually has a real strategy or not. SnapBridge is one of those things that make you wonder whether Nikon understands that software is now more important than hardware.

            Nikon is a company that is mostly fueled by cameras. But what cameras, and how well fueled? It appears to me that they’re repeating the mistakes they made with the Precision group, almost to the letter. The net result of those mistakes was to give up market share in semiconductor equipment and then struggle to keep their heads above water in such gear.

            Nikon seems to be stating the Japan-wide line at the moment: consolidate to high-end gear to keep margins intact, even though that kills growth and market share. But that doesn’t work for Nikon with more than 50% of the company sales being cameras, and much of that to consumers. Relentlessly following that strategy would mean the Imaging group getting even smaller.

            I’ve said for years now that the key to growth in the camera business isn’t image sensor improvement, feature additions, etc. It’s fixing the terrible workflow, and that’s a software problem. Moreover, it’s a strategy (e.g. software propels our hardware).

            • PhilK

              I see some parallels between Nikon and Blackberry. (Formerly Research in Motion)

              In the case of RIM, they basically got lucky with a handheld product that was originally targeted towards email-centric executives, whose lucky timing meant a lot of other people eventually found it useful and they led the popular market for a while.

              But after Apple and Google jumped into smartphones, RIM quickly discovered they didn’t really understand the mass-market very well, who were more interested in trendy stuff like playing music and shooting/sharing selfies and didn’t care much about arcane things like security and MS Exchange integration (and Apple/Google were executing much better in general), so their luck ran out and they slid into irrelevance.

              In the camera market today, smartphones rule the roost. The difference between a great ‘camera’ and a mediocre ‘camera’ on a smartphone often has little to do with the hardware camera module and everything to do with the software doing image-processing, the camera application and O/S integration.

              Nikon has not adapted well to that transition, largely because they still seem to be run by old-school optical engineers who don’t follow pop-culture trends and still think that (as in the MILC musings from Nikon management quoted here-and-there in NR recently) if they produce fabulous lenses for their planned MILC using “industrial technology”, that will make for a winning product.

              They still seem to cling to this old-school idea that if they just produce a slightly better lens than their competitors, that’s all they need.

              As if.

            • Thom Hogan

              I certainly don’t understand Nikon’s recent statements regarding mirrorless. Ushida-san’s statement about generations growing up on smartphones and playfulness don’t at present make any sense, especially when coupled with the “better lens technology” aspects of those statements. Those statements also don’t seem to match what I’ve heard from others in Japan about what Nikon is up to.

              But then again, mirrorless is not the answer to the question of market growth. It’s the answer to cutting costs and keeping pricing down while catering to some trend lines like smaller/lighter.

              The future market is in software, as you note. It’s the integration of the image sensor to the modern world, and that’s a software problem, not a hardware problem. So much of the future world of hardware is devices that are integrated into other things, and that’s always a software problem.

            • PhilK

              I don’t think mirrorless is simply a margin play or a smaller/lighter appeal, I do think that eventually they will take over from flipping mirrors entirely, but we have a ways to go before that’s realistic. In the meantime, Nikon are giving up sales by not offering something in that area.

              But more importantly, Nikon has to find a growth market to build for. Dedicated retail cameras are not it.

              I said a few years ago that Nikon should partner with a smartphone maker because that’s where the consumer optical business is these days, but they failed to do that and it seems like the window of opportunity for that is almost closed. Schneider did partnerships, Leica did partnerships, I think Zeiss did partnerships. Perhaps Canon and Nikon are too fearful of undermining their brand with such a venture.

              So whether it’s medical products, industrial/metrology products or whatever, Nikon needs to find some industry they can commit resources to that isn’t rapidly shrinking.

              Given the current political leadership in Japan and the situation in Korea, maybe Nikon will return to their actual roots and start building lots of military equipment. (Only half joking. 😐 )

            • Thom Hogan

              No doubt. Nikon seems to think that the medical business is their future, but so does every other Japanese electronics company. Nikon got started on that track far too late, and at a small scale. They are too small to have bid on things like Toshiba’s medical group, which Canon snapped up.

              As for cameras, they’ll all be mostly non-mechanical at some point, which means mirrorless over DSLR as an interim step. The thing driving that, though, is costs. Canikon had clear volume benefits, which is why DSLRs are still lingering. But those benefits are slowly eroding.

  • Mehdi R

    I hope they also show up something next to it, maybe D650 or new glasses 🙂

  • RC Jenkins

    To re-iterate a point I made earlier, Nikon should learn about the concept of ‘timing of events.’ For example:
    http://photographyroundtable.com/the-best-time-of-the-year-to-photograph-the-milky-way/

    September-October is the worst timing to release a camera where the promos seem to be all about night sky shooting & milky way shots. It coincides with the time of year when the Milky Way begins to be invisible from Earth until the following year. So we’ll be waiting until 2018 for any Milky way shots.

    It also misses the first North American solar eclipse for decades for photographers in the States–which I assume is a large segment.

    Obviously not the only use cases for this camera, but leave it to Nikon to be late enough to miss these excellent opportunities.

    Nikon’s 100th would have been a perfect time to release this, and it would have given great viral marketing material as photographers immediately post some of the most technically brilliant images that only this new camera is capable of. It also would have given Nikon an opportunity to prove & discount in time for the holiday shopping season, for people who don’t want to immediately buy this camera.

    What a timing fail.

    • Hans J

      I was going to say the same THING!!! so true!!!

      “It also misses the first North American solar eclipse for decades for photographers in the States–which I assume is a large segment. It’s the first one in 99 years…wouldn’t that have been a great “Happy 100th, Nikon!” shot?”

      • RC Jenkins

        I can’t think of any scenario where the combination of megapixels and dynamic range is as challenging as when taking a picture directly of the sun and the dark/opposing side of the moon in the same frame.

    • nwcs

      Nikon definitely gets marketing wrong — or at least suboptimally. However, I don’t think a new product would be needed to market these upcoming events. The current ones would do just fine. If they simply marketed what they had — and maybe bundle it with some literature or a solar filter, etc. they would have been fine.

      It’s not about whether new product is ready but rather seizing the timing.

      • RC Jenkins

        We’re not talking about marketing the event or “doing just fine.”

        We’re talking about marketing this specific camera body as being “better” or even “the best.”

        Sure, Nikon (and any camera company) can still take advantage of the timing of the eclipse only (not the milky way, since it happens every year). But this is only because it failed in the D850 release timing.

        The D850’s (presumed) combination of very high DR, very high MP, tilty screen, mechanical shutter, available lenses, etc. would have given it a compelling and differentiated demonstrative story.

    • Aldo

      It’s hard for them to time products to world events when they can’t even time their products to their own books.

      • A. F.O.

        eh eh eh
        too much math envolved….:-)

    • ZoetMB

      Not everything is about astro-photography. September-October happens to be exactly the right time to release a new camera because it’s when retailers make their buying decisions for the holiday buying season. That’s not to say that it couldn’t also be released in June, July or August, but there’s a tremendous amount of sales that happen for Xmas and Nikon has frequently missed that date.

      • RC Jenkins

        You seemed to have missed the point.

        Also, it’s not “exactly the right time to release a new camera.”

    • Constantine Aivazidis

      Of course they can photograph the eclipse with D850 if they want to,. They could make a video of it also!

      • RC Jenkins

        They can. We can’t.

        Just like they can (and did) photograph the milky way galaxy center.

        But what does that have to do with us? It’s the difference between a company’s own promo and an independent hands-on review with samples.

    • Allan

      Just got a long email from Nikon about how to shoot the solar eclipse (Peter might already have posted the videos), and which cameras and lenses to use.

  • BRNSMRF

    Skeptical

    • sandy

      Oh, wow.

  • deepshade

    So the Nikon 100th anniversary – July 2017 – has turned into a diluted product launch announcement at a fan meeting is on the 22nd of September???

    • this is not a fan meeting – it’s an invitation only event

      • deepshade

        An invitation to celebrate not actually delivering anything ON the Nikon Centenary – Hope the Nikon execs are proud! 100 years is not a day you’d miss and try to make up later with a party.

        • nwcs

          Why do they have to deliver anything on that day? Just because you wanted them to?

          • deepshade

            ‘I’ didn’t want anything delivered on that day – what are you talking about?? Any corporate worth its salt (including Nikon) celebrates every anniversary. Can’t you see its about a major worldwide corporate not delivering or living up to its historic reputation in so many ways on its most important anniversary to date. Then trying to fix the hype with a party two months later.

            • sandy

              Oh, bother, it’s their freaking Anniversary year all year long. Like anyone cares about the exact day, hour min. It’s the 100th YEAR.

            • deepshade

              Tell anyone celebrating a centenary that the day doesn’t matter. If you make it that far – then remember to tell everyone on that year that your birthday doesn’t matter – its the year that’s important – yeah right! Look up Nikon Centenary – it doesnt say – this year…ish! it always refers to July 2017.Get real. It was someones job to make that month and year special. So far we’ve seen, boxes with badge engineering and a late product launch.

            • Ric of The LBC

              Didn’t you see the awesome music video?

            • deepshade

              OK – that made up for it all 😉

            • sandy

              A company is not a person. Really. And a pending announcement of one of their most exciting camera launches. I think I will forgive them, but then I am no marketing genius like you.

            • Roger S

              Yes, much too much has been made of this IMO. I’m looking forward to getting a d850 one day, but I certainly don’t care one what particular day it was released.

            • Thom Hogan

              To me, a big milestone like this is a pivot event. “We’ve accomplished all these things in the first 100, here’s how we’re going to make the second 100 even better.”

              So far, the pivot is “we’re still iterating our higher end products, and we’re still cancelling our lower end products.”

            • nwcs

              No, not every company worth their salt celebrates anniversaries with big products. Most of the time they simply make an ad to celebrate and have an internal party. You’re making this your hill to die on but I don’t see it as a big deal. Sorry.

            • deepshade

              Hill, dying – where did that come from or have any relevance to the conversation – I guess we can all try to attach a random metaphor for effect. For any company – or indeed, human being for that matter – celebrating a centenary is a huge deal. When you get there – I hope everyone lets you know that they ‘don’t see it as a big deal – sorry.’

            • nwcs

              Whatever dude. You seem to have some weird agenda. Not worrying about it anymore.

            • ZoetMB

              No, corporations don’t celebrate every anniversary with new products. When did Apple celebrate their birthday with a new product on that anniversary? When did Sony or Canon? It would have been nice for Nikon fans if they had released something on that day, but in the long run, it’s not that big a deal.

        • Not complety true – they announced the D850. The new mirrorless is obviously not ready yet.

  • I think you know by now that this website doesn’t work based on guesses 🙂

  • Aldo

    MLKjr’s dream is still a work in progress and it seems yours is too.

    • Hans98Ko

      No, I am not dreaming of HVF but something else.

      • Aldo

        gotcha…but I thought the main selling points on the EVF was focus peeking and the fact that you could see the actual resulting image before you shot it? These things are basically impossible with an OVF

        • nwcs

          Those and you can get a live processed histogram with your camera settings. That’s pretty helpful, too. It’s also easier to overlay additional info. EVFs have their usefulness just like OVFs.

        • Hans98Ko

          Your 2 major concern can be overcome easily with some sort of substitute, and I knew exactly how it can be done, but do not want to discuss it here at the moment. Maybe at a later time.

  • sandy

    They day I start dreaming about cameras is the day I sell them all.

    • Hans98Ko

      For me, I will be looking for ways to finance it rather than selling it, because I build up my systems rather than swapping them.

  • Aldo

    I hope Peter gets invited, he is as good a nikon fan as they come these days.

    • Eric Calabros

      They hate him

      • A. F.O.

        They should not.

      • Allan

        Overall Nikon Rumors and its readers are very pro Nikon. Peter provides well-balanced, positive, free, advertising for Nikon.
        { So he occasionally leaks information that Nikon would rather not have leaked. 🙂 }

        • it’s 2017 – if I don’t leak it, somebody else will

          • you’d better watch out the Mooch is gonna fire you!

      • yes, a while back they even asked some major websites not to link to me or use me as source…

        • A. F.O.

          they are old old school….and 100 years old, I guess.
          “-Web what, duh???”
          🙂

    • Never, they will never invite me.

      • MB

        Why not for crying out loud?
        Yours NR site has done more for Nikon than all “I AM without a clue how to use” advertising campaigns put together …

        • They don’t see it that way apparently.

          • Thom Hogan

            Criticism of any kind is not well received in Japan.

      • Aldo

        Well they are foolish !

      • Thom Hogan

        Maybe we should have our own event ;~)

        • Allan

          I’ll bring the chocolate.

    • Allan

      And they should fly him first class.

    • It seems Nikon doesn’t like the fans who criticize them with good intentions. See also Thom….

    • Eric Calabros

      What they mean by A Day Behind The Lens? Its a workshop?

      • no idea

      • br0xibear

        “On this day, we offer you the possibility to participate in various talks,workshops, live shoots and photowalks with famous international and national photographers such as Mayk Azzato, Stefan Forster, Markus Gilliar, Marcel Lämmerhirt, Michael Martin, Joe McNally, Fabian Oefner,
        Paloma Parrot , Harald Schmitt, Sascha Schürmann, Florian Smit and Stefan Warter.
        In addition, we offer check & clean for your cameras (against showing aticket), advice from our Nikon specialists and the possibility to test the latest camera models and lenses for a limited time.”

        Google Translate from their Facebook page.

        • “possibility to test the latest camera models and lenses for a limited time” so maybe they will have the D850?

          • Eric Calabros

            No need to be “limited” if its already released camera.

            • Exactly, but again – just speculations. It is just strange to have a 100 anniversary party two months later. I think Nikon wanted to have all this in July but they were not ready with the D850, so now they had to push the 100 years celebrations.

  • Jeffry De Meyer

    invitation doesn’t really look like d850 more d750mk2

    • MB

      How’s that?

      • Jeffry De Meyer

        the setting doesn’t look like something a landscape portraiture camera would be used

        • MB

          Oh yeah … I presume they should have organize it in Lhasa featuring Dalai Lama as a host then …

        • BVS

          But it’s not just a landscape and portraiture camera anymore, if the rumors are true.

  • absolutely! 🙂

  • Ric of The LBC

    Peter, Ready to let the gimp, errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, T.I.M out of his cage?

    • I just removed his ban. He is welcome to come back if he stays on topic.

      • Allan

        Thanks Peter.

      • A. F.O.

        Thanks.

    • Allan

      T.IM,
      Get off of your French ass and post something. 🙂

      • Ric of The LBC

        oh no.

    • he can post only if he stays on topic – I don’t care about his motorcycle or what Russian websites he visits…

  • Studiorene

    It is not unusual for Nikon Germany and The Netherlands to have an event in a year without Photokina. This has been done earlier with the D3/D300 introduction. Note that 22 and 23 September is exactly Photokina weekend shifted by one year. Looking at the photo in the Dutch invitation my guess would be a public event, or maybe restricted to NPS members. Made a note in my agenda!

    • Chris

      I’m a NPS-member in the Netherlands; no invitation (yet).

  • Juan Nunez

    For those of you talking about pricing and reason to upgrade, etc. I’ll give you my .02
    I’m a Canon guy with all Canon lenses, most are L lenses and a 400 DO lens. All expensive gear. I shoot stills and no video, however; I might want to try going forward. I currently have a Canon 5D Mark ii and didn’t see the need to upgrade to a 5D Mark iii when it came out. Not for my purpose. I’m now in the market for one and from everything I’ve read then Canon 5D Mark IV doesn’t impress over the 5D Mark iii. Which leaves me in limbo…I tried the 1DX Mark ii and it is an absolutely amazing camera, however; overkill for what I need given the price. $6k for a body is really geared towards sports pros, birding, or video shooters who demand 4K, hides and slow mo. It can of course be used for anything but it’s really meant for those who don’t have the time or want to do post processing.

    Anyway, my point is this. As a Canon guy, I think Nikon needs to prove themselves at Canon’s 5D Mark IV price tag or just a tad above, say either 3499 or 3699, anything about that and I personally think people like me will loose interest. Consider the fact I’d have to sell all my lenses and switch to Nikkor lenses, that a heavy load. Now you may ask is 3699 or 4000 that big a diff in the grand scheme of things, no of course not, but mentally speaking and how the price is perceived, it is.

    Since the 5D Mark IV is not up to par with the others, that leaves me personally looking at either biting the bullet and getting the 1DX Mark ii and staying with Canon or wait to see how a real world review of the D850 stacks up and crossing over.

    So, I’m inpatiently waiting to see how the D850 performs. Specs wise it sounds fantastic and it will be the camera for Canon and others to beat, but time will tell after it comes out. The other question is whether Nikon can ride out the shrinking market, Canon is well positioned to do so not so sure Nikon is. Be nice if my crystal ball actually worked.

    My .02
    Take it for what it’s worth.

    • Andrew

      We’re equally excited in the Nikon camp. With the D850, no need for an upgrade for the next 15 years 😉 I can then get a D7500 which gives me much of the internals of the flagship D500 in a much smaller and lighter camera for only $1,250.

      Nikon is a top company, has awesome technology, and the market is really offloading a lot of the excess sales that were obtained during the financial bubble that caused camera sales to spike up. Samsung took away sales in the camera market hurting a lot of players. But with Samsung closing its camera operations, that should put Nikon and Canon in a better position.

      But also you should note that Nikon did not release some important products, their DL series which impacted sales. They stated that those products were cancelled because they did not feel they were competitive enough for the market Nikon was targeting. Now Nikon is working on some new mirrorless cameras that should expand their market share. The cyclical change in business is typical in any business environment but can never affect a company that is as strong and well positioned as Nikon.

      • Thom Hogan

        Gee, Andrew, what will Nikon live off of if we all keep our cameras for 15 years?

    • Lladnar

      Well you could still get a Mark III, lol. If you have all that glass I see why you’d be hesitant to switch away. Not sure what your needs are but Nikon even has a 70-200 now without the focus breathing a lot of wedding/event photographers hate, there’s plenty of glass to cover any need. Even a D810 is better than any 5D IMO, but yeah will be great if the D850 knocks it out the park.

    • Ivanku

      JN, I don’t know what your needs are, but as a mostly-Canon user, I can tell you that the 5D IV is actually more of an upgrade than seems on paper. Highlight and shadow detail are significantly improved, high ISO is a BIG step forward (12,800 is very useable), AF is significantly better than mark III, white balance is extremely reliable (especially the white priority mode). It’s still a conservative update in some specs, but it is considerably improved in practice over the previous two 5Ds.

      • Allan

        How’s the dynamic range?

        • Ivanku

          Depends on what you want from it, but for me it’s good enough. I don’t do a lot of landscape, but do sometimes expose for highlights at base ISO. I can pull up exposure two stops without introducing a color cast or noise. More importantly for me, at ISO 1600-6400, I can push shadows selectively by about a stop without ill effect. That’s something I find very valuable.

        • Ivanku

          But I also learned photography using slide film, and a lot of my favorite photographers made images that had crushed blacks. That doesn’t excuse Canon’s previous generation of outdated sensors, but their current sensor technology has reached the point of suffieciency for my needs

      • JN

        Thanks. I played with it briefly and wasn’t impressed with the AF in comparison to the 1D Mark II. I would have expected it to have the same or relatively close AF to that of the 1DX Mark II based on released timeframes. I do like the FPS rate for the price, although it looks like Nikon is going to blow it away at either 8-10 with the new D850. I felt the dynamic range was not on par with other cameras of its class including the D810. Something Canon always lacks in. With the exception of the 1DX II which has excellent dynamic range, great white balance, insane fps and an amazing AF system as well as incredible performance in low light situations. I shot a few shots with the 5D Mark IV and felt that anything past 6400 ISO produced too much noise, also AF didn’t work well if at all past 6400 ISO. In terms of comparison to what I’m using today, a 5D Mark II it’s of course a world of improvement, no doubt. However; weighing my options for what’s out there I have to say that I’m a bit disappointed in Canon. I feel if I were to pick up the 5D Mark IV, which came out I my a year ago, i would be 3 years behind tech wise once the D850 comes out. Again, real world test will tell the story but on paper from what’s been released/leaked thus far Canon will be no match, with the exeception of the 1DX Matk II, however; that’s just shy of double the price, which if I were a professional sports photographer or shooting wildlife in remote parts of the world I wouldn’t even think twice given its performance, spot on AF and other amazing features. Just like the D5, another amazing camera. On one hand I like the refresh cycle of Canon vs Nikon which seems to be every 4 years for pro dslr’s but at a year old and the new Nikon promises (at least on paper thus far) blow anything Canon has out of the water, which only means Canon will probably have something in store by 2018 which may or may not be rushed which introduces a whole other set of issues but also making a 2 year old camera obsolete. I think Canon missed the mark with the 5D Mark IV especially when it comes to video (again I don’t shoot pro video today but may want to start tinkering with it) so the right body becomes that much more important. Now, I’ve only played with the 5D Mark IV and the 1DX Mark II for about a day each and they are worlds apart when it comes to low light shooting, AF on fast moving objects and even on detail. The 1DX Mark II, even though only a 20.8MP camera in comparison still produced better tones and detail than the 5D Mark IV.

        That’s my experience given the short time I had to test each and based on other pro reports I read, in par with what I found.

        That’s why I think this D850 is going to hit it out of the park, it if performs as expected, because Canon will have nothing close to it today in its line up, so for someone like me who is looking today to upgrade vs 12-24 months, that’s a big deal.

        • Ivanku

          It sounds like you’ve spent some time with the 5D and you should trust your experiences. However, I’ve used the 1DX several times and own the 5D IV. When you downsample the 5D to 20mp, the high ISO noise level is nearly identical, as is the level of detail. Metering on the 1DX is better, and so is the tracking consistency. Overall focus speed and initial acquisition with fast lenses is close enough to be a wash, unless you’re shooting extremely fast subjects. The 1DX holds on to moving subjects better and will reacquire focus faster when it loses it, but I don’t think there’s a huge gap between the two systems. Noticeable, but average subject matter, not very big. White balance on both cameras is spot on. Dynamic range across the ISO range is nearly identical, and definitely the same at low ISO values.

          • JN

            My findings were not on par with what you’re describing, especially when it came to dynamic range, in my tests the 1DX mark II had much better dynamic range, also shooting birds for example, the 1DX missed 2 shots out of 20, whereas the mark IV had about 8 misses. To be fair I only had a day to play with each. The rest I have to rely on real world reports of various pro reviewers.

            That said I still think that Canon will be way behind the ball if this D850 delivers, and in many fronts. Enough to make me want to wait and see what Nikon has to offer and consider switching, as I don’t like to refresh often like many do. Only thing I don’t like about Nikon is their glass prices, which seem to be much more than Canon.

            Side questtion for the Nikon folks, why is that?

            • Ivanku

              That’s interesting. You should trust your own judgment and your needs, but I found, and DXO measurements support my observation, that dynamic range between the 5D and 1DX II is almost identical. You’re also right that regardless of subtle differences between the two Canons, the D850 will have them both beat. But that brings you to two important questions. 1) is that difference significant enough to make an impact on your work and output? 2) does that difference justify a complete switch given other differences between the systems and your investment in top-line lenses?

            • PhilK

              Re: lens prices, I would say 2 things:

              1) Nikon can get away with it, so they do, because they need the margin.

              2) Canon’s production technology is probably more advanced than Nikon’s in general and I suspect they can mass produce an equivalent product a bit cheaper than Nikon can.

              High-end lenses are not really super mass-production items but components like AF electronics will benefit from every cycle of improvement and rationalization and miniaturization and power-efficiency and so on, for any EF lens.

      • Eric Calabros

        A resurrected DL

        • Yes, or a new J6 🙂

          • Lladnar

            Or J7 if they decide to skip numbers again.

          • Eric Calabros

            J5 has a HDMI port. Look at left side of this.. no port. Nothing.

            • yes, it is not the J5 for sure

            • Eric Calabros

              At this point a replacement for it would be the most weird releases we’ve ever seen.

            • Is it? Was just looking at those little cameras…I strongly believe there is a place in this world for the 18-50 DL, even more so if they ditched things like HDMI ports and doodads and were able to make it smaller. Looks almost pocketable…

            • Just make a new mystery post already, title it super click bait “whats dis?”, we can debate it all day and eventually get to calling each other Hitler.
              (G Law Joke)

            • Allan

              I don’t understand, “G Law Joke”.

            • Allan

              Thanks.

            • don’t forget the exclamation marks – otherwise you are not legit: “What is this?????? New Nikon camera leak!!!!!!!!”

            • Lladnar

              AND WHAT THE HELL IS IN THE PICTURE ON THE SCREEN????!!!!????

            • Oh, I forgot ALL CAPS!!!!

            • Lladnar

              xD

            • That too is one of the laws.

            • That was for those times. Now it’s Trump.

      • Juergen.

        Coolpix A900 has SnapBridge.

        • Yes, that’s it.

    • Allan

      It looks very deep, thick. What’s that sticking up on the left side?

      • Sanosuke Yap

        That’s what she says!

    • Lladnar

      It’s the D850, they held off the release to redesign it. XD

      • Ric of The LBC

        Panda version

        • RC Jenkins

          100th anniversary metallic grey edition lol

          • Lladnar

            Too rich for my blood.

      • C-M

        You haven’t worked with product development have you
        The specs been fixed for 1-2 years

    • br0xibear
      • That’s gotta be it. It has Suckbridge, so the last part of this puzzle has Snapped into place.

        • Lladnar

          Suckbridge and Foolpix, perfect together.

      • yes, that’s it – I never check the Coolpix cameras 🙂

        • br0xibear

          Do I get a prize ? lol

          • You win a coolpix!
            *gives look of disgust*

          • a virtual prize 🙂

          • Lladnar

            An even larger version of the blurry photo will be emailed.

    • Captain Megaton

      i’m pretty sure its just a (blurry) J5

      edit- nope A900 ;D

    • Juergen.

      Coolpix A900

  • Allan

    I wonder if Peter is also responsible for all the leaks coming out of the White House.

    • Ric of The LBC

      no, Justice Dept for sure.

  • Lladnar

    For about 40 bucks US it better damn well be chocolate flavored.

  • saywhatuwill

    September? That’s a long time from now…oh wait, it’s already August? Dang it? Where’d the year go?

    • That’s why they pre-announced it, they are not ready and need more time.

  • Senor Magnifico

    Nikon history museum, fan meetings… No, we are not waiting for that !!… Isn’t it?

  • outkasted

    Nikon IS ALWAYS A DAY BEHIND . They need to catch up.

    • RC Jenkins

      …or months (eg. D850) or years (eg. action cams) or even decades (eg. all-electronic lens communication)…

      🙂

      They are brilliant for the constraints they put on themselves, but they really need to sort out timing.

      In other words, Nikon will put out the best products just after relevance or consumer in many cases. Note: the D850 is still relevant and brilliant if the rumors align to specs. My only issue is timing: I woulf have loved to see it released on the 100th anniversary a few weeks back.

  • verytoxic

    All the way out to Sept 22nd? It’s not a “day behind a lens”, it’s a “day behind”.

  • TinusVerdino

    Nikon held events for the D5/D500 in the US about a month after launch on CES. Probable launch date august 24th

    • Except that they haven’t said it is an event about D850.

      • TinusVerdino

        they wouldn’t

  • Thom Hogan

    My teaching assistant does just that (XRite). Personally, I adopt a more complex approach that attempts to dial in color more as I see it than exactly as is neutral.

    Adobe’s color model better matches Canon than Nikon, but Adobe tends towards excess in the red channel and additional contrast.

    • Ivanku

      Yep, sounds like Canon! (Bias toward red) Though I’ve found the new 1D/5D models to be more neutral while still retaining that easy to dial in quality.

  • PhilK

    Lots of cars nowadays have heads-up displays that project digital data onto the car’s “optical viewfinder” – its windshield. (There are also various inexpensive 3rd-party products to add this capability to any car)

    Surely Nikon can produce a hybrid VF with similar capabilities, providing both “direct view” advantages such as high visual acuity along with EVF benefits such as focus peaking, histogram, etc. (Perhaps not image playback in the VF, tho)

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