Sony is now the only manufacturer of XQD memory cards


Yesterday's news about Micron discontinuing the Lexar memory cards retail business has a bigger impact on Nikon shooters because in addition to Sony, Lexar was the only other manufacturer of XQD memory cards that are used in the latest Nikon D5 and D500 DSLR cameras. Hopefully, somebody will buy out the Lexar brand or jump in and start producing XQD cards. The thought of having Sony as the only option terrifies me.

Lexar XQD memory cards are still available for sale at B&H, Adorama and Amazon.

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  • Posting my 128GB 2933x on ebay for $10,000.

    • verstaerker

      I take it

    • Aldo

      In 50 years maybe…

      • 64GB 1400x is commodity right now…

        • Scott M.

          64GB 2933 is best

  • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

    Agree bad news and as the uptake is not huge in terms of camera models and manufacturers may see Sony binning the XQD line.

    Nikon should have made sure that more than one manufacturer other themselves were going this route and that the largest manufacturer of cards Sandisk was on aboard.

    Also telling about the longitivity of XQD was that the recent mirrorless models from Sony like the A9 series did not include the slot and made do with the most common Digital media slot SD/XC.

    As Canon is steadily adding CFast in their Pro cameras this may become the pro digital media now

    • ITN

      Canon is just dragging their feet with old tech.

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        Good call – must say I still prefer Nikon than any other make – I’m not sure why probably because I started out with a D100 and worked myself up

        • D100, MY first camera was the Nikkormat FTn and then the F Apollo, and I am still with Nikon

    • CrashingOut

      Scary did not know A9 was missing XQD. That raises many questions, none of them good.

      • Yep, it does….

        • Francesc Genové

          No it doesn’t. CFast it’s already dead. Based on the SATA standard it cannot handle faster speeds than 600Mb/s. Simply it can’t. There’s no workaround.
          On the other hand, XQD it’s PCIe. It can go up to 8Gb/s. with the new CFExpress standard.
          The only problem with XQD is that we still don’t need that much speed. But when we need it, very soon; XQD is the way to go.

          • Thylmuc

            The mega pixel race is somewhat over, so I don’t expect a significant increase in the requirements for storage media with stills cameras.

            The highest data rates are with video cameras recording in raw. There, however, SxS Pro+ Cards, XR media (SSD based) or Redmag are established. These are not suitable for normal cameras.

            Hence, it may well happen that XQD is cancelled.

            • Francesc Genové

              Mate, there’s no such thing as “enough megapixels” as there’s no such thing as “enough speed”. Or do you go by horse to work?
              An example, we don’t need 4K TV. Human eye, at normal viewing distance, it’s just not capable of discerning Full HD from 4K. Has this FACT stopped the manufacturers from making 4K TV and consumers from buying them? And your grandpa from telling you “how much better it sees that new 4K TV”?
              And we’re talking about cameras. More megapixels? More crop! Just ask Fuji why they’re making medium format cameras (again) and Canon why is working on sensors with hundreds of megapixels?
              Anyway. It’s not even a matter of “megapixels” or “speed”. We’re changing all of our interfaces to PCIe. And with PCIe in cameras (sorry, chipset manufacturers we’ll not keep making old chipsets for a handful of camera freaks), it’s XQD time.
              And, again, XQD IS A INDUSTRY STANDARD!!! No Beta, no VHS, no bullshit!
              You wanna bet on this? ‘Cause you’ll loose. 😉

            • Francesc Genové

              Oh, and another nail in the coffin. The consortium that made and maintains (last revision of the CFexpress Standard is from past April) it’s the CompactFlash Association. And they, who’ve created the CF and CFast standards, have already “killed” the CF and the CFast and moved to the new CFexpress (which uses the XQD form factor).

            • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

              Thanks for this info and possibly a muddled move by CFA in setting future standards which may put punters / companies like Canon, Sony, nikon in taking up their standards and what they’re proposing.

            • ITN

              There is a continuing increase in frame rates and pixel counts in still and video cameras. In any case even if this stopped (which it is not doing) I’d still want reliable, fast, compact storage.

          • ArTourter

            well currently CFast 2 uses SATA 3 speed in 600MB/s (or 6Gb/s). However it is incorrect that this is all SATA can ever do. SATA 3.2 specs specify speed of 18Gb/s or about 2GB/s.
            However you are correct in saying that CFast is a dead standard but not because of the limited speed. CFexpress is what is replacing it, and funnily enough is uses the same form factor as XQD and is twice as fast as XQD2 and as fast as the SATA 3.2 standard (although it is not using SATA anymore but PCIe 3.
            The technologies are merging. so the fact that only one manufacturer now makes XQD may not be that big a issue in the medium term

      • Antonio

        Aren’t they still using XQD in some of their video cameras?

      • Kiril Karaatanasov

        Some pro video cameras from Sony have XQD slots in addition to other more video friendly storage options.

    • Andrew

      There are alternative ways of viewing this event. Sony being the only manufacturer may be a good thing. Economies of scale can allow them to reduce the price of XQD cards and still make an healthier profit. Nikon will most likely not consider it a favorable outcome if there is price gorging.

  • Spy Black

    All the Nikon XQD pundits are now sweating bullets LOL! I suppose Nikon was bamboozled into that stillborn format to get some
    sensor production cooperation from Sony. I hope Nikon learns it’s lesson
    and stops crippling it’s UHS-II busses. Wake up Nikon!

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Agree although XQD still a handy and fast card in using this with my D500.

      • Spy Black

        That’s because your SD buss is crippled. Time to put an end to that shit.

        • Eric Calabros

          Fastest “available” SD is yet way slower than fast XQD cards.

          • Spy Black

            Doesn’t matter. You won’t miss it.

            • Allen_Wentz

              It does matter. It is called _workflow_, and 50% faster is a big deal. Note that faster PP workflow has nothing to do with camera anomalies like a slow SD bus.

              I have told you about workflow before but you keep pretending only some slow camera bus matters.

            • Spy Black

              It won’t matter when you can’t get XQD cards anymore.

            • Allen_Wentz

              No way XQD cards become unavailable. Hell, we can still buy Beta tape, zip drives and floppies.

            • Spy Black

              …until UHS-III comes out. Then who cares?

            • Allen_Wentz

              Expectations are that XQD improvements will remain ahead of SD improvements.

            • Spy Black

              Not if no one is buying them.

            • Allen_Wentz

              That could be. My expectation is that the demand for larger capacities will make XQD additionally attractive, especially for video. The fact that Sony uses XQD in its video cameras is a good sign.

              We shall see.

            • Spy Black

              By the way, apparently 128 gig XQD cards went up by $20 at B&H following the announcement. Better stock up quick.

            • I was expecting that.

            • ken

              XQD improvements will lag behind SD cards. There is only one maker of XQD and only a few devices that use them. That means no competition to drive development and less money for R&D.

            • Hans J

              Sooooo true. That’s why they should stay with Sd cards.

            • and Ilford FP4 🙂

            • hahaha I remember that crap, it went

              “When you can’t get film any more” DUH…..

            • Spy Black

              Go buy a roll of Kodachrome. Or some disc film. Or some Ektachrome 4×5 sheet film. Let know how it goes.

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          Good call and spot on.

        • Allen_Wentz

          Nonsense. Put an end to lies that it is only the bus and read the card format specs. Also extrapolate where the specs are likely going.

          We agree however that manufacturers do some weird, sub-optimal things with their camera bus builds. Like Nikon with lame SD in the D500 #2 slot, Sony in the A9 has its second slot a lame non UHS-II SD.

        • If SD speed were an issue they could be configured as a RAID. If we really want price and performance, figure out a way to leverage M.2.

          • Spy Black

            I always thought you should have the option to rig up your dual card slot as a RAID 0 array. Looking at my D600, if you elongated the grip a bit and moved the door back, you could easily fit 4 SD cards in there. I’m surprised no manufacturer ever thought of this. Certainly not Nikon now, with their XQD jail sentence.

            Also, in the space of a CF card you can fit four SD cards, I always thought it would be cool to make a RAID that way too. Someone actually made a CF card adapter some time back that took 4 SD cards, but you couldn’t rig it up as a RAID, which I thought was a shame.

      • and my D4s and D5

    • sickheadache

      Beta Cam

      • Allen_Wentz

        Amazon will overnight Beta tape to you, no problem.

    • ITN

      SD cards are fragile and undesirable. Hopefully Nikon phases them out soon from high end cameras.

      • Spy Black

        In your imagination.

        • ITN

          The dead SD cards I’ve had are not my imagination.

          • Spy Black

            There dead cards in every format, you’re not special.

            • Allen_Wentz

              I admittedly do not have the data, but some formats sure seem more vulnerable than others. CF pins, for instance are a known weakness. And SD are harder for my fat fingers to handle plus _seem_ flimsy to me.

            • Brett A. Wheeler

              Finally, someone who gets it. CF pins are fragile and EXPENSIVE to repair! Not to mention the down time for those of us who make money with our cameras. XQD is a breeze and I never worry about perfectly lining up the card, then gingerly inserting it like I have to with CF! I had to use CF with a D800 and it was a pain. I only use XQD with my D4s now.

            • ZoetMB

              I realize what I’m going to say is anecdotal, but I’ve been shooting digital since the D70 and I’ve never had a single problem with a CF card ever. I’ve never had a bent pin and I’ve never lost a single shot. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t have supported a transition to XQD, but CF has never been a problem.

            • I’ve never had a slot in a camera fail, but I had a 8gb microdrive that had it’s socket fail TWICE. Still got it, but it’s just a decoration/memento now.

              Those of us who always went for bigger cards probably suffered less pin/socket failure, since we ran less duty cycles and were stayed below average MTBF.

              The guy I sold my second D300 to broke it in only a couple days. I’ve seen lots of busted CF sockets…just never done it myself.

              OH…actually, once. Someone kicked the express card reader dangling out of my laptop way back. Killed the reader, but the card and/files were safe.

            • sickheadache

              Floppy Disk is the future.

            • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

              So”’ ny Microdisk may make a come back lol

            • Allen_Wentz

              Yeah I have tens of thousands of captures with CF, SD and XQD, and strongly prefer XQD to the other two choices. Both from a handling standpoint as well as from a camera and PP workflow standpoint.

            • Spy Black

              “And SD are harder for my fat fingers to handle…”
              http://tinyurl.com/u0fo

            • Allen_Wentz

              OK send Jenny over to give me guidance.

            • ITN

              This has nothing to do with me. Flexible cards with thin, non-rigid housings have poor durability when they are taken in and out of cameras and card readers. Card types with hard chassis are more robust to handling and more reliable in use. That is why SD cards are not used in 1DX II or D5 nor in many high end video cameras.

            • Spy Black

              I’ve been working with SD cards for over a decade. In and out of cameras over and over and over and over again. I’ve never had a single issue with one.

            • ITN

              2/8 of my SD cards, 1/3 of my memory sticks, 0/13 of my CF cards and 0/4 or my XQD cards have failed so far. I believe the soft flexible chassis cards are less robust. I would have been happier not to lose any data and will do my best to avoid use of those card types.

    • Allen_Wentz

      Why do some folks here actually _want_ slower, less durable card formats? You guys are nuts.
      XQD cards will remain available and will remain substantially superior.

      • Spy Black

        XQD has been around for FIVE YEARS now. How many camera manufacturers support it? Right.

        • Allen_Wentz

          Who cares what other camera manufacturers use? All I care about is that my new camera uses best available state-of-the-art mass storage. Currently that happens to be XQD.

          • Spy Black

            Because if only YOUR camera uses XQD, nobody will want to manufacture it because there’s no money in it. The money is in selling SD cards, which the rest of the world uses. Therefore for the time being, you’re at the mercy of Sony, who manufacturers XQD cards but has the brains not to use it in their cameras.

            • Allen_Wentz

              The thing is, camera cards are not really a consumable like film was or like razor blades are. Any given $2k+ camera body basically gets a complement of cards when new, and that is it.

              So really all I care about is that a new camera uses best available state-of-the-art-performance cards. I buy a batch with a new camera and then fuggedaboutit.

              Maybe my workflow changes or prices fall and I buy a few more cards, but camera cards are simply not an ongoing purchase item.

              Sometimes a cheapo SD card may be used for sneakernet like a memory stick, but that most often happens after images have been uploaded to a laptop for backup (or sometimes in those cameras with SD as a second slot like the D500). SD cards of course are generic everywhere, but mostly slow.

            • Spy Black

              Manufacturers only care about the bottom line. There’s no money in manufacturing XQD if nobody is using it, especially when you’re buying one or two cards and calling it a life for your camera. The money is in the masses. Technology marches on. UHS-III will eventually be out and it won’t matter anymore. Again.

            • ITN

              Only a few cameras use UHS-II. It is not by any means the winner of the high speed card race. UHS-I is the popular format in consumer products.

            • But UHS II is backward compatible. That is what matters.

            • ITN

              I am not interested in using old cards in new cameras. I am tired of waiting for devices to complete tasks and want high speed and high reliability. Using old cards gives me neither. XQD card cost is quite small compared to the cost of a new professional camera.

            • It’s not always about you. There are photographers out there who want things that would be available everywhere , now and in future…. Also if one is using lot many cards then the cost accumulates.

            • ITN

              The cost of the time waiting for the transfer with slow cards is much greater than the cards themselves. Card cost that is saved maybe 30€ buying the cheapest cards. You wait 10minutes for the card to copy to computer instead of 2min. You use the card every day for three years, that’s 140 hours of your life spent waiting for card transfer. Is regaining 140h not worth 30€ to you? Of course, if they are SD cards, chances are they might not last that long. If you need a lot of cards then all the more reason to buy cards with good ruggedness, reliability and high speed. E.g. XQD.

              If you want to be able to buy cards from a local drugstore then there is no shortage of cameras that will use them. Why every high end camera should have to use slow, poor reliability storage is beyond my understanding.

              It is indeed not about me. But I’m surprised that I’m not allowed to have an opinion unless it is joining the chorus of bashing Nikon, Sony etc.

            • Why do you think nikon introduced D4s with CF+XQD cards? It was not because those users didn’t have money. I understand your “time is money” argument but like I said before, if you are given an option between getting a shot with slow transfer and not getting a shot but having a fast transfer speed, which one would take. You may be shooting with all precautions but still something may go wrong or you have used up all your cards. That is the time SD comes to the rescue.
              As for opinion is concerned, you are always welcome to have it but the thing is that all these proponents of XQD are talking as if nikon has removed the XQD slot from config. You have atleast one slot and the other one is high speedSD most probably which is good enough for shooting for now if not for transfer. You have to realize the reason behind XQD+ SD config. Eventually D830 is going to have XQD+ XQD just like D4s-D5 . And even in USA where you get everything easily, one cannot get XQD everywhere . And quickly. Think about the rest of the world. And what happens down the line when/if sony decides to cut XQD? You will get the cards, but with still more difficulty.
              Consider this, once all of us are locked in to dual XQD and discarded everything else, if sony abandons the format, what are we(us and nikon) to do?

            • ITN

              I’m not suggesting that Nikon should use only XQD in all their cameras, but they should offer it in more cameras as this is a relatively inexpensive way to increase the camera performance and reliability. XQD is the least expensive of the high speed card formats and has the most room for future speed improvements. 128GB CFast 2.0 cards cost about twice as much as corresponding Sony G series XQD. The CFast case is significantly larger than XQD so it is likely less suitable for small DSLRs or mirrorless bodies and is likely only used on relatively large devices. SD UHS-II offer faster cards than UHS-I but not as fast as XQD or CFast 2.0 (and with SD the guaranteed speed is usually much lower than the maximum speed specified, so it’s more a like a half-empty promise whereas the professional card formats offer more consistent speed). SD UHS-II cards of high speed and capacity are also more expensive than XQD cards and do not offer the ruggedness benefits of XQD.

              With mixed card cameras, one has to stock both card types and always have extra cards in pairs to continue shooting with in-camera backup. Furthermore the full performance of the camera is not available with mixed cards being used in in-camera backup mode.

              XQD and CFexpress are the future card formats of the Compactflash association based on around the PCIe bus which is standard in computers today and Sony isn’t going to abandon XQD; they use it in some of their own professional video cameras and obviously make money selling the cards as well, not to mention the money they make from manufacturing sensors to Nikon. CFast isn’t likely to be adopted by Sony because the card is so large it would be a poor fit for their mirrorless cameras which they try to keep as compact as possible. So that leaves XQD as providing room for growth for Sony’s own mirrorless cameras which are getting higher and higher fps rates and probably the pixel count increases over time as well. Correspondingly 8K video is being developed and that too will require faster cards to be adopted.

              If SD is chosen as the future high speed option then the high speed isn’t that high and the ruggedness remains poor. You pay more and get less, essentially, than with XQD. With CFast 2.0 you actually get more but pay much more (2x cost is not reasonable for only a 10% speed increase). I think CFast cards are expensive because there are no mass market cameras that use them. With Lexar out of the game, the card prices for CFast are likely to increase as well. Wouldn’t Sandisk just love that. And it will never be widely used in consumer still cameras because of the larger size and astronomical prices.

            • A) I’m not suggesting that Nikon should use only XQD in all their cameras, but they should offer it in more cameras as this is a relatively inexpensive way to increase the camera performance and reliability.
              B) With mixed card cameras, one has to stock both card types and always have extra cards in pairs to continue shooting with in-camera backup. Furthermore the full performance of the camera is not available with mixed cards being used in in-camera backup mode.
              Decide what you mean to say. Right now what nikon is offering is best of both worlds. Speed as well as guarantee of availability.
              If they use XQD in both slots right now, everybody will have to dump ALL their existing cards and buy new ones(Which we are doubtful about regarding futureproofing as well as current availibility everywhere) That is all I wanted to convey. And nobody is doubting about superiority of XQD. Just its forward compatibility. Which wouldn’t be the case with UHS II as well as UHS III when it comes.

            • ITN

              I would like Nikon to offer D820 with dual XQD option. It can be like D5, with dual CF or even dual SD offered as alternative options when you buy the camera. This they can do as they have already shown with the D5. I need to be able to standardize on a fast, high reliability card. I already have XQD and it is my choice.

              I don’t mind at all if others want to choose another card type. What I resent is every camera comes with a different mixture of batteries and cards so it can be difficult to logistically manage the use of several different cameras. I already have three sets of incompatible cards and only one of them is satisfactory in handling, speed, and reliability.

            • Spy Black

              They’re still SD cards, the manufacturing pipeline is already in place.

        • Sony just released a 440MB/s 256gb card…I think we’re fine. For now.

  • XQD cards were never less than a precarious option. I still think this is part of some deal whereby Nikon adopts XQD in exchange for better access to sensors. Hope it’s worth it.

    • Spy Black

      In the long run, it obviously hasn’t been. One of the most important things Nikon needs to do if it plans to survive is to stop being dependent on Sony for sensors.

      • Anton B.

        Seems unlikely that Nikon is going to be able to start anew in the sensor business. Sony has such a head start at the moment (on everybody) it simply doesn’t make sense for Nikon to do it.

        • Sony definitely doesn’t have a head start with their lenses. Keep in mind that Nikon also produced mirrorless cameras for years (Nikon 1) and they also have the lens selection.

          • Anton B.

            >> Sony definitely doesn’t have a head start with their lenses

            Certainly not, which is why I said “in the sensor business”.

        • Spy Black

          I don’t know, and can’t say. Nikon wouldn’t need the production needs of Sony however, and there ARE other sensor manufacturers as well.

          • Anton B.

            The production needs is not the main issue. Investments in fab production would cost, if not billions, then triple digits of millions, AND they’d have to hire tons of people who do sensor design.

            Sony has a clear, and dominating, lead in sensor technology at the moment. It would be insane for Nikon to stop using Sony and/or go with someone else.

            • Thom Hogan

              Let’s start with your last paragraph. Sony has licensed technology and IP from quite a few companies to be able to make a stacked BSI sensor with PD on sensor. This is not a “Sony invented” thing. It’s a “Sony integrated” thing. Thus I wouldn’t say Sony has a clear dominating lead in sensor design.

              What Sony has is a near monopoly on Japanese fab capability (outside of Canon). That became true when they bought the Toshiba fabs Nikon was using.

              The operative question is simple: does Sony Semiconductor want Nikon’s huge sensor buys or not? They’re bigger than Sony Imaging’s sensor buys.

              I believe the answer is yes. I’ve heard nothing that contradicts that, but I’ve seen a lot of people speculating who have no sources in Tokyo.

            • Anton B.

              >> It’s a “Sony integrated” thing

              Sure, but more importantly, it’s also a “only Sony’s got anything like it at the moment” thing.

              >> does Sony Semiconductor want Nikon’s
              >> huge sensor buys

              I expect they want it very much.

              Not sure what you answered me for though, I do not feel I have expressed anything that disagrees with this.

          • Thom Hogan

            Let’s see, Nikon makes how many more DSLRs than all of the mirrorless sales? Losing that many sensor sales would actually hurt Sony Semiconductor, and by implication, Sony Imaging.

            It’s funny how everyone forgets the rumors about Sony and Nikon linking up on sensors to take on Canon, too. Gee, that seems to have actually happened. So now Sony is going to back out of the deal? How’s that work economically long term?

            • Spy Black

              So what? Look what Sony is doing now, reserving their state of the art sensors for their own products. Seems to me Nikon was taken for a ride.

            • Anton B.

              They are not reserving their state of the art sensors for them selves, this was a rumor and totally de-bunked.

            • Spy Black

              I guess you haven’t seen the sensor in the A9.

            • Anton B.

              I haven’t personally seen it, no, most people haven’t, but what’s your point? That Nikon cameras with this new sensor should magically appear out of thin air at the moment that Sony develops a new sensor?

              The fact that Nikon hasn’t yet released a new camera with this sensor is a Nikon thing, not a Sony thing. Seriously. For the Sony chip division, Nikon is a more important customer than is Sony it self. Sony and Nikon are *very* friendly in this space, and are eyeing a common enemy, the juggernaut that is Canon.

              Your comments are worthy of wearing a tin-foil hat. Time to put it on lest the evil gnats at Sony come and alter your thoughts so as to make you go buy a Sony A9.

      • Thom Hogan

        Are we going to resurrect that old can of beans again? I seem to hear this same thing every three years for the last 18.

        • Spy Black

          Although they could be, I doubt Nikon would be stupid enough to accept a stillborn format without it being stipulated as a requirement from Sony. The fact that their standard UHS-II SD card bus is crippled doesn’t strike me as coincidental either.

          • Allen_Wentz

            Sony crippled the #2 SD card slot in the a9 also. What is up with that?

            • Lower cost maybe? I mean this is their top of the line camera, I do not understand why.

            • Spy Black

              I don’t understand this crippling either, especially in the case of the A9. I can understand it in the Nikon, because they’re desperately trying to impress with XQD. I agree with you that they should either stick with dual SD or dual XQD in their cameras. Mixing the two and penalizing you for using two slots by crippling the both buses is royally stupid.

          • ITN

            XQD is a superb card format, not at all “stillborn”. Nikon is just ahead of its time in doing so. Those of us using XQD benefit from this choice and enjoy the excellent speed, durability and handling of the cards.

            • Spy Black

              XQD is FIVE YEARS old now. How many camera manufacturers have embraced it? Right.

      • Eric

        Agree. Dependency without exclusivity is never a virtue.

      • Can Nikon realistically go its own way with sensors? Only Canon has really tried and it hasn’t been a roaring success.

        • Spy Black

          I don’t really know, but even if not, there ARE other sensor manufacturers. Being solely dependent on Sony (or being solely dependent on any resource) is a bad idea in my book, especially with Sony now expanding in the camera market as they have been.

    • I also think this is how this deal went down. Never trust Sony!

      • Allan

        Peter,

        I hope you are up to date on payments for your bodyguard service.

        • Lol, who should I be afraid of, Sony?

          • Allan

            lol

            • now, Sony fanboys – they are scary 🙂

            • sickheadache

              Oh u mean the Sony Humps..I will not mention anyone’s names, Jason Hump Lanier, The Angry Queen, and I am way prettier than my wife, Tony Southrup.

            • Anton B.

              For the record, Tony Northrup, even though he’s lavished some praise on Sony lately, is a total Canon fanboy.

            • Tony Northrup tries all what could lead to much views of his videos because that makes the clicks on his YouTube channel and brings the money to him.

            • Anton B.

              Yeeeees, that is probably true, but what’s your point? Tony is still a massive Canon fan-boy.

            • Charles

              Naw… They ain’t scary. They just cry and scream a lot. 🙂

      • br0xibear

        Playing Devil’s advocate…
        If I were Sony I’d bump up the prices of their XQD cards and slow down production. Not only would they make more money on the cards they sell, it has a negative impact on one of their main competitors, and it’ll help in their marketing to get photographers to switch to the A9.

        Maybe Nikon should buy Lexar ?

        • yes, just like I said – never trust Sony (especially their marketing department lol)

          • ITN

            Actually it is Micron who is discontinuing their flash card business, not Sony.

            • I know, and now Sony is the only manufacturer.

            • Thom Hogan

              Thing is, capitalism tends to produce what’s needed. Either someone will buy the Lexar brand and IP and carry on, or given the volume of XQD cameras Nikon is selling, someone else will step in and give it a try.

            • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

              A silly question – couldn’t Nikon buy the Lexar brand and IP and manufacturer the cards under Lexar name. Then doll out the XQD slots with each new DSLR that is manufactured ?

              Then it may not be so important if Sony shuts the XQD shop down.

              Sorry to anyone I have offended in my above post and sorry for me being possibly a village idiot….

            • Thom Hogan

              Sure. But Nikon needs to be careful to spend the dollars they have wisely. They might be better off sharing future XQD plans with someone better positioned to make money off such a business.

            • Bijan Choudhury

              What is preventing ScanDisk to manufacture XQD cards ? If they get communicated that more future Nikon products will be using XQD cards … why not ?

            • Allen_Wentz

              My recall is that SanDisk was pushing the competing CFast format,

            • Clifford Martin

              I thought that SanDisk once did promise to release XQD cards but went back on that promise.

            • Spy Black

              Because only Nikon is using XQD. There’s no money in it. It’s much more lucrative to sell SD cards, because that’s what the rest of the world is using.

        • ITN

          Sony use XQD on some of their video cameras which would become less competitive if they increased card prices. They would be shooting their foot basically.

          • br0xibear

            There’s very few of them (3 as far as I can remember), and they’re high end broadcast cameras…miniscule numbers compared to the Nikon bodies and customers.

            • ITN

              Right but Sony want to be competitive in that field.

              Also if XQD cards become more expensive it reduces the sales of Nikon cameras and consequently of Sony sensors and cards, and Canon sell more of their own stuff. So Sony ends up losing money.

            • Spy Black

              “Anyway the XQD format is excellent and it is in the best interest of both users and the industry to move towards it.”

              Yep, that’s why it’s in the A9…

          • Spy Black

            “Sony use XQD on some of their video cameras which would become less
            competitive if they increased card prices. They would be shooting their
            foot basically.”

            Prices just went up with the announcement. So much for that theory, ay?

            • ITN

              It is possibly the opportunistic stores who figured that increasing prices is a good idea. Anyway a small increase of price has no practical impact on users. Lexar was perhaps making cards too cheaply and couldn’t make a profit from it and forced Sony to also sell too cheaply. It is a good idea to increase prices a bit so that manufacturers can stay in business. I’m happy to pay 20% extra for the benefits of XQD cards.

            • Spy Black

              Right…

        • ITN

          Japanese companies such as Sony, Canon and Nikon are “friendly competitors”. Sony knows their cameras are not going to take over the market and they know it is in their best interest to sell components (such as flash cards, sensors etc.) to other camera manufacturers.

          • Thom Hogan

            Actually, they know that so much that they separated that out into a separate company, which now has fiduciary interests to maximize revenues/profits, which means selling to third parties.

          • Nakayamahanzaemon

            If they are so “friendly”, why are they working so hard to death after spending for 15 hours a day at an office? According to some reports, the average overtime working hours for a Nikon and Sony employee is 1500 hours per annum, which is almost equivalent to the regular working hours for others.

            If Sony is so “friendly”, why did it lay off about 100,000 workers in the last 10 years? Nikon has also fired 1,000 workers recently. Is it because Nikon is “friendly”?

            BTW, Sony has given up expanding the market share (up until now) because Sony realizes that pursuing the market share, which is equivalent to sell more entry-level gears, bears little profits in comparison to promoting high-end cameras. Sony ended up failing miserably to rob Canon and Nikon of the market share.

        • Thom Hogan

          I think Sony has far bigger things they need to do than try to play the mafioso moves. And if someone does buy Lexar–and I think they will–then you’ve just shot yourself in the foot jacking up prices.

        • Andrew

          It would not make any business sense for Sony to alienate their customers by increasing prices. If their sales double as a result of their only competitor leaving the market, that by itself will boost revenue. In addition, Nikon is a big customer of Sony and it will not make any business sense for Sony to jeopardize that relationship.

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        Still have cold sweats on Sony Mini Disk / Disc springs to mind and nearly wasting a few $%$%$%$ on buying into the device and media….

        • Thom Hogan

          Well, all media types go away, and far faster than people seem to think.

          • Allen_Wentz

            Media types get supplanted fairly quickly but they do not really go away. E.g. one can still inexpensively buy floppy disks and floppy disk drives.

            • ZoetMB

              I thought you were nuts, but I found a site that still sells 3.5″, 5.25″ and 8″ discs (floppydisc.com) and drive and they’re relatively inexpensive. I’m amazed. Can’t believe it’s worth it for anyone to still manufacture this stuff.

            • Scott M.

              I still convert photos into old fashioned slides sometimes.

        • To be fair, Sony made mini disc players up until 2011 (and they still sell blank discs).

          I had a player and it was very ahead of its time in the late 90s/early 00s.

      • Thom Hogan

        Nikon was one of the three companies that contributed IP and design work to XQD from the get go. One of those, SanDisk, left the group leaving Sony/Nikon.

        While all the fanbois get off on Sony First conspiracy theories, the actual truth in Japan is that Nikon and Sony have a common competitor that they’d like to take down, Canon. There has been a lot of coopetition between Nikon and Sony that’s mostly aimed at Canon. It’s in Sony’s interest to keep Nikon on their side because without Nikon’s volume, Sony’s sensor costs would go through the roof.

        • Anton B.

          >> Sony’s sensor costs would go through the roof

          This may or may not be true, depending a lot on how the Sony fab setup is. I would be surprised if Nikon contribute more to Sony than the smart phone business does. Sure, the sensors are smaller and different, but the volume is certainly significantly higher than the volume of their bigger sensors, APS-C, FF and medium format.

          But that is a just educated guessing.

          • Thom Hogan

            No, but my point is this: Nikon contributes more than Sony Imaging does. Or at least that’s been the case. If Nikon keeps going down in volume, at some point that wouldn’t be the case any more.

            But this whole sensor nonsense has to stop.

            Sony sells 1″ sensors to Canon, Panasonic, two competitors.
            Sony sells 4/3 sensors to Olympus, Panasonic, two competitors.
            Sony sells APS-C sensors to Fujifilm, Nikon, Pentax, three competitors.
            Sony sells full frame sensors to Nikon, Pentax, two competitors.
            Sony sells small MF sensors to Fujifilm, Hasselblad, Pentax, and others.

            What Sony Semiconductor DOESN’T do is sell a sensor to competitors that Sony Imaging did the R&D on to customize. But if a competitor wants to customize a sensor themselves, they can and do (Fujifilm, Nikon, Olympus).

            And yes, you are correct it depends a bit on how the fab(s) are set up. The old Toshiba fab is where most of the Nikon sensors are run these days.

            • Anton B.

              Nikon is absolutely a hugely important part of the Sony chipset story, but I am not sure it is as important overall as you think. Again, it depends a lot on the fab setup.

              There are Sony imaging circuitry in about half the mobile phones sold today. Mobile phones have a much shorter shelf life than cameras from Nikon, so I would assume (yes, I know the first syllable of that word) that the mobile phone market is substantially more important.

              Sure Nikon is more important than Sony, but is it hugely important? Probably not compared to Apple, for example.

            • Thom Hogan

              Your analysis fails on the face of it. By your argument, Sony should really see Sony smartphones as more important than competitor smartphones in terms of sensor sales. Of course that’s not true.

              The truth is this: smartphone sensor sales are tapering off dramatically, and would probably be negative if it weren’t for the fact that so many are opting to use dual sensors now.

              Sony Semiconductor is attempting to hold onto ALL the sensor sales that it currently has: keep the monopoly in non-Canon camera sensor sales, keep the half of the market they have in smartphones, etc. And they’re targeting growth in things like security, industrial, and automotive sensors. All that huge debt they piled up building out the Sony fabs, buying the Toshiba fabs, etc., is predicated on not losing customers and gaining new ones. Simple as that. They made a huge play on infrastructure, but if they don’t 100% utilize it, the numbers all start to go haywire for them.

              It doesn’t matter that camera sales aren’t what they once were. They’re still measured in the tens of millions of units a year. That’s enough units so that any misstep by Sony Semiconductor could produce a competitor and further reduce their volume. They’ve discussed this publicly and openly in business and press meetings in Tokyo. They seem committed to keeping their customer base.

            • Anton B.

              >> By your argument, Sony should really see
              >> Sony smartphones as more important than
              >> competitor smartphones in terms of sensor
              >> sales

              I am not sure why that would be the case. I have never argued that Sony sees Sony cameras as more important that Nikon or other competitors cameras. Are you arguing against an argument I have not made?

              >> The truth is this: smartphone sensor sales
              >> are tapering off dramatically, and would
              >> probably be negative if it weren’t for the
              >> fact that so many are opting to use dual
              >> sensors now

              This on the other hand is an absurd statement. Smartphone sales were up almost 4.5% in Q1, Samsung increased quite a bit, Apple dropped by only by about 4% (down to about 50 million phones per quarter), and Chinese phone makes saw quite significant gains.

              Apple alone (and Apple is nowhere near a dominant force in the number of smartphones sold) ships 200 million phones per year. Sony has a significant part of the phone market for imaging chips. Camera sales are comparatively insignificant.

              >> It doesn’t matter that camera sales aren’t
              >> what they once were. They’re still measured
              >> in the tens of millions of units a year

              You are absolutely right, and smartphone sales are measured in tens of millions of units A WEEK.

              But again, what exactly are you arguing against here. What is it you think that I am saying.

        • But Sony makes much more money selling sensors to smartphone devices. Why should they need Nikon? I don’t think that Nikon is a reason for Sony to sell a lot of more sensors because the camera market sales aren’t that huge compared to smartphones.

          • Andrew

            The sensors Sony sells to smartphone manufacturers likely cost 10 times less compared to full frame and crop sensors than those sold to camera manufacturers. The lower cost for smartphone sensors can be attributed to sensor size and aggressive discount pricing due to high volume production.

            No company including Sony will consider leaving money on the table when the revenue potential for supplying Nikon and others is still quite sizable.

          • Thom Hogan

            This is a failure to understand how businesses optimize. Actually, the biggest growth for Sony Semiconductor would be in automotive. Smartphones and automotive are highly competitive, and Sony doesn’t always win those design decisions.

            But you’ve got many tens of billions of dollars invested in fab infrastructure. You want to maximize their utilization as close to 100% as you can. You don’t want to allow competitors to siphon off even a small bit of the market that you currently own, as it can change the financing dynamics for you dramatically.

            Sony Semiconductor basically targeted a near monopoly on the non-Canon produced camera sensors. Their underlying financial fundamentals are partly triggered to holding onto that volume/sales while jumping on the growth of security and automotive image sensor use.

    • Francesc Genové

      XQD is a standard. It was made by a bunch of companies working together, Sony and Nikon being one of them.
      So, I’m sorry, drop the tinfoil hat.
      The reason why there’s no other manufacturers of XQD cards is pretty straightforward: we still don’t need them, and the processors, memory,… needed to handle them make the cameras go hot (Sony!!! Any idea why the A9 doesn’t have XQD?).
      The XQD cards are based on the PCIe interface and are capable (in the just last April defined PCIe 3.0 x8 standard of speeds of up to 8GB/s.). The slowest incarnation of the XQD card goes up to 500MB/s, and the cards we’re using in our Nikon’s go up to 1GB/s.) The fastest CF cards can go up to 600MB/s (and no more than that, as we have reached that maximum throughput of the SATA interface).
      And now, why Nikon is using XQD already? ’cause they can. They could put better hardware (faster interfaces, memory and processors) in their flagship cameras and, still, make a profit. And, as the bodies are big enough, they don’t have problems with the added heat. With the added benefit that in 10 years we still we’ll be able to buy backwards compatible XQD cards for our “old trusty” Nikon D5 and D500. So, the “evil” Nikon is, also, working in the customers interest in this particular regard.
      So, don’t worry, very soon you’ll see more cameras and devices compatible with XQD. The other manufacturers will make this cards (Sandisk is another “father” of the standard) and… pretty much, there’s no problem at all.

      • Spy Black

        “XQD is a standard. It was made by a bunch of companies working together, Sony and Nikon being one of them.
        So, I’m sorry, drop the tinfoil hat.”

        XQD was started by 3 companies, not “a bunch”, and one of them dropped out, which means XQD was developed by Sony and Nikon. Considering how much experience Nikon has in developing storage, it’s pretty safe to say that XQD was essentially developed by Sony.

        As in, ONE company.

        • I also consider XQD to be a Sony creation.

      • XQD is a “standard” agreed on by Sony, Sandisk (which doesn’t make them), and Nikon (which doesn’t make them). Lexar somehow got involved but is now in doubt. Compare this to, say, Apple’s much maligned proprietary “lightning” cables which are available from hundreds of hole-in-the-wall manufacturers.

        All vaguely modern high end storage media (UHS-II, CFast, XQD, M.2) are based on PCI in some way because, guess what, it’s all just computer hardware. The difference is M.2 delivers those speeds at commodity prices from many, many manufacturers today (and for the last five years) while XQD is horribly behind in capacity, speed, and price. Why? Because M.2 drives are used in all kinds of computer hardware — laptops, video cameras, rack storage — while XQD is used by a small subset of Nikon photographers.

        It’s like making your flagship cameras dependent on film that costs more and is worse than the film everyone else uses. But hey, it’s a “standard”.

        • Francesc Genové

          From the web of the CF Consortium, talking about cameras, quote: “CompactFlash can only be developed to a specific speed and capacity. The format simply won’t be able to support the blazing fast shooting speeds and high capacity of RAW images and video that future cameras
          will require.
          As cameras can offer faster and faster continuous shooting rates and longer video recording times, the media cards need to keep up, otherwise your camera becomes slowed down or limited by the
          card.”

          On the other side, the “horrible” XQD uses the same interface and flash memory that the M2 drives. So you know what you’re talking about?
          XQD can go, today, to the “horrible” speed of up to 1GB/s. with projected speeds of up to 8GB/s on 2TB cards. Yep, “horrible”.

          But hey, we can spend all the day talking about this. Which want change anything at all.
          I just hope, that all of you are really very good photographers.
          Don’t come to the technology side. You’ve no future here.

          • CFast is their answer to XQD and has the same performance ceiling. But I’m not arguing for Compact Flash, it’s also overpriced garbage. Use M.2 or, heck, buy a camera with 512GB of built in storage and provide USB-3 and 802.11ac file transfer.

        • Eric Bowles

          Lexar is not a member, but the parent entity Micron Consumer Products is a member of the Compact Flash Association. The group is co-chaired by execs from Canon and Nikon.

  • alvintoro

    Right now it sucks for me, but thinking long term and how everyday day that goes by, Nikon’s lack of innovation is pushing me closer and closer to jumping ship, I really hope the standard just rolls over and dies. Although knowing how much Sony loves pushing their proprietary obsolete standards way past their expiration date, chances are we’ll see the overpriced cards on the shelves for years to come.

    • ITN

      XQD uses PCIe which is the standard bus currently used in desktop computers. It’s not a Sony invention nor Sony proprietary tech.

      • alvintoro

        Thank you for the clarification. Stillborn format none the less.

  • T.I.M

    CF cards is the way to go, reliable, large enough not to be lost, less sensitive to magnetic fields.
    There must be a reason why T.I.M have one as an icon!

    • Eric Calabros

      T.I.M judgment about storage tech is as reliable as his prediction about D810 replacement.

      • Allan

        T.I.M’s D900 will be Nikon’s next-year’s “wow” (mirrorless). Though the name might not be D900. It’s hard to predict at 100% accuracy (tongue-in-cheek).

        (We still don’t know for sure if his prediction is incorrect. We do know that those Nikon guys didn’t release it for his 50th birthday – not nice.)

        🙂

        • T.I.M

          Nikon making a mirror less high end camera would be a mistake.
          Nikon already lost many customers, taking away the mirror and Nikon will lost most of its females customers !

      • T.I.M

        There is billions (yes, billions) people who believe in Jesus.
        I have not seen him yet….
        :o)

        • TwoStrayCats

          Jesus uses XQD cards on his D5. And he also gets an extra stop of DR at sunsets. And he doesn’t ever, ever need a tripod.

          • T.I.M

            LOL, I don’t think so, he use a Polaroid camera with a huge flash, he is taking a lot of pictures here in Florida (especially in summer)

    • ITN

      CF cards are no longer being developed with faster tech. The pins used in camera CF card slots are one of the most common points of failure.

      • T.I.M

        Yes, I’ve heard people fearing that the pins (in camera) would broke.
        I’ve use CF cards for many years and never had any issue of any kind with CF cards.
        Maybe I should start playing lotto, or maybe I take care of my gear, who knows ?

        • Allen_Wentz

          Your anecdotal experience would be of some interest if you were an aggressive gear beater, but it appears that you are not one of those.

          Bottom line though is that _lots_ of pros have had pin issues with CF cards. Even me, and although I am a camera/lens beater I have always been OCD with image data (film and camera cards) yet still have had to field-repair CF card pins.

          • T.I.M

            Have you ever see a 300mm f/2.8 used by a pro (like sport events), they look like TRASH !
            Any camera gear will broke if you abuse it.

    • Allen_Wentz

      Nope. XQD far superior. The TIM icon supports my premise…

    • Hans J

      NOOO Sd is great just keep using them.

      • T.I.M

        I do use SD cards for video, but I never make videos.
        :o(

  • sickheadache

    Oh No! Another Delay in the Delayed Discontinued New DL Camera Series From Nikon.

  • sickheadache

    Even Sony, except from some video cameras, has not placed their own XQD in their digital cameras…Poor Nikon…Closer being shut down, and being bought from Sony! Gloom and Doom. LOL…Still not buying dusty censor cameras from Canon.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Agree still find Nikon hard to beat.

    • yes, even the “greatest” a9 doesn’t have XQD and you have to wait while writing those 20fps files….

      • Allan

        Why did Sony decide not to use XQD in a9?

        • I have no idea, they probably plan to abandon it like they did with other tech in the past. Remember the Sony memory stick? Sony is very good at creating tech and then waiting to see if it will pick up. They have been doing this with their cameras as well.

          • Allan

            Thanks.

          • Allen_Wentz

            But “abandon” is a misnomer. It leads to wrong-headed thinking.

            Just because a memory format has been surpassed or is no longer promoted does not mean it stops existing. Zip drives, Beta tape, etc. are still available, and CF will never go away even though it has been surpassed.

            The most relevant things with camera card memory formats are durability, speed today and speed tomorrow. Right now XQD is at the top in that analysis – by a lot.

          • Thom Hogan

            Ultimately, the video cameras will need even more speed than current XQD. Almost certainly the answer will be direct access SSD.

            • Allen_Wentz

              ?? What do you mean by “direct access SSD?”

              The reason I ask is because it seems to me that PCIE pretty much means an XQD card already is a direct access SSD. We just need to see capacities build out to TB capacity.

            • Spy Black

              Because SSDs are already in the production pipeline and can hold far more storage. Their development and evolution cycle is the fastest of all storage mediums. Direct access SSD makes far more sense than incorporating XQD, or even SD. You can stick an SSD in a camera, pull it out, and plug it into a computer and start working immediately without having to transfer data.

            • Thom Hogan

              I mean you use the existing SATA and other connectors with the raw drive (or a sled). That’s being done a lot in the video world already.

          • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

            and another one I nearly got caught on the S’ ony Mini Disc. Thanks to Apple for stearing me to the Apple IPOD classic.

        • doge

          Because they wanted to get the most people possible to switch systems to their new camera. And to do that, you use the format that the most people are currently using. And that’s not XQD.

          • Allan

            I think people willing to pay the high price of an a9, are willing buy XQD cards.

            • doge

              Not when they have a stack of SD cards already in their 5D or D5 or whatever else they’re switching from

            • ITN

              D5 doesn’t use SD. Neither does 1DX II.

            • Thom Hogan

              Sure, and wait until they find that those are really slow cards in their A9 ;~).

            • Allen_Wentz

              Agreed. Buy fastest new cards for fast new cameras. Let slower older cards live with the slower older cameras.

              When one sells or gives away an old body the slow old cards go with it.

        • Allen_Wentz

          My guess is they chose lame SD for size reasons.

          • Hans J

            The SD size is the BEST Choice

            • Allen_Wentz

              Not if one wants speed/bandwidth. SD suits the compact camera world I guess, and I can see how it allows for a bit smaller camera.

            • Thom Hogan

              Actually, I’d argue that XQD is the best size of the currently available cards. And best protected.

    • JJ168

      It will be funny if in coming weeks nikon introduce an a9 spec mirrorless camera 20fps 24MP etc with qxd card that has no lag in clearing its buffer. It may push sony to start using qxd in their camera at last 🙂

  • mikerofoto

    other option might be Nikon recall for switching XQD for CFast cards :/

    • Allen_Wentz

      Why?

  • decisivemoment

    CFast is inferior in terms of potential speed, because it’s SATA and not PCIe and SATA is not scalable past 600 megabytes a second–simply not adequate for emerging standards in video. CFast cards basically can’t get any faster than they are now…..XQD or another PCIe standard has a huge amount of scalability. Adoption has been so poor of CFast as well as XQD that we might end up with the even more hardware-limited SD as the be-all-and-end-all.

    And the Compact Flash Association over the past year has been switching its future planning from CFast to PCIe, with a proposal for a new standard, CFExpress, that uses the XQD connector and form factor and will work with XQD cards.

    So I don’t see how XQD is a dead-end unless we’re all doomed to be stuck with SD UHS-II.

    • br0xibear

      “CFExpress, that uses the XQD connector and form factor and will work with XQD cards.”

      Apart from the physical size being the same as XQD ,there’s no real information about backwards compatability yet, or which type of backwards compatability…
      Will a proposed CFExpress card work in a XQD slot?, or is it only that an XQD card will work in a CFExpress slot ?

      http://www.compactflash.org/assets/docs/cfapress/cfexpress_1_0_press_release_2017417.pdf

      • decisivemoment

        I would assume the use of the XQD connector, or as they put it, “XQD®”, would strongly indicate new cards work in the existing socket. Presumably they’d also be limited by the existing bandwidth. But yes, I’m curious if someone has come out and explicitly made that clear.

        • Thom Hogan

          Not that I know of. But considering that SanDisk is part of that and they were in the original XQD consortium, I think CFExpress is really their way of saying “oops.”

          • silmasan

            Saving face…

        • silmasan

          From the press release br0xibear linked to above, we have to read between the lines, but it’s interesting that the one to say anything about “backward compatibility” is a man from Nikon.

          “The CFexpress* 1.0 will enable many hardware manufacturers to leverage the performance benefits of the well established PCIE® and NVM Express® eco-system, allowing for many years of higher performance and backward compatible products.” said Mr. Koichiro Kawamura of Nikon, co-chairman of the board, CFA.

          Backward compatible with what? 😉 We know it can’t be CF or CFast, hence nobody else is going to say that.

      • silmasan

        Connector and form factor…

        So, who’s still thinking this is not XQD 3.0 + political consolidation? 🙂

        • br0xibear

          Until more comes out I’ve no idea about backwards compatability means in reality.
          Meanwhile Delkin have announced their CFexpress card…

          “Delkin has shown the first industrial CFexpress 1.0 memory cards, a combination of existing XQD 2.0 and CFAST 2.0 standards. These new cards have the same dimensions and connectivity as the XQD variants, but are addressed via PCI-Express 3.0 and NVMe. The aim is, of course, to enable working with files in high resolutions.
          Version 1.0 of CFexpress (or CFX 1.0) works with two PCIe lanes, enough for a theoretical throughput of almost 2 GB / s. For further scaling in the future, the CFexpress standard can be
          scaled up to eight PCI-Express 3.0 lanes – and thus a speed up to 8 such GB / s.
          The CFX cards announced by Delkin are in a metal housing and are based on SLC or MLC memory chips. They will initially be available in capacities of 32, 64, 128 and 256 GB, but there are also 1 TB copies of the schedule.”
          (Google translation.)

          https://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/52623/eerste-cfexpress-geheugenkaarten-met-pcie-30-en-nvme-bij-delkin

          • silmasan

            Well, the easiest example is if you take a PCIE 3.0 graphics card and put it in a PCIE 2.0 or PCIE 1.1 slot, it’ll work. Conversely, you can put years old PCIE 1 device on any newer PCIE 2.0/3.0 slot and it will work.

            There are details which involve the maximum bandwidth they can allow for a given number of lanes (e.g. x1, x4, x8, x16) for each version which affects their maximum transfer rate that you can see on wikipedia (it gets complicated fast) — but the core principle is that the standard is made for both backward and forward compatibility.

            • br0xibear

              Sorry, I didn’t explain myself properly…I build PCs so understand the principle as far as the tech goes. My question, and what no one so far has said, is how it might work in cameras that have XQD slots.
              Is it as simple as a firmware update for the D4, D4s, D5 and D500 which means CFexpress cards will work in those bodies, do they need to be sent back to manufacturers for a hardware update, will they work at all ?
              As of today there’s no information, wait and see I suppose.

            • silmasan

              Oh OK 🙂 I would also like to ask Mr. Koichiro Kawamura in person if possible… I’ll look it up Nikon’s website…

            • br0xibear

              Just got an email from Delkin.
              CFexpress cards WILL NOT work in XQD slots even though the connectors and size are the same.
              I’ve sent the details to Peter to post.

            • silmasan

              That’s a major bummer. 🙁
              Thx for letting me know though.

              So, is the other way around a no go too? I mean, XQD cards in CFexpress slots?

            • br0xibear

              I think they’re not going to work in any way.
              Here’s the email (I’ve redacted my email address for privacy reasons)…

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7bbfd878beae35a9967c635087e7ee2561dcaf20b80d8f8c353018e4017498cb.jpg

            • Thanks, I will post this online.

          • sandy

            In theory. In reality the fastest cards (Delkin) are about 540 mbs. Pretty damn fast, but still.

    • Spy Black

      “So I don’t see how XQD is a dead-end unless we’re all doomed to be stuck with SD UHS-II.”

      Right. Because SD will never evolve out of USH-II. Just like they never evolved out of UHS-I…

      • Allen_Wentz

        No. Because XQD will forever be a superior handling format that is also performance-evolving and expected to remain better performing than SD as both evolve.

        • Spy Black

          Right. Because YOU desperately think the world is going to stop using SD and embrace XQD.

        • This reasoning is exactly like that between Fx vs Dx. At the point that Dx IQ reaches” being sufficient” one no longer is heavily biased towards Fx.

        • sandy

          312 MPS is slow? In who’s universe? It’s not the fastest but your comparing a Porsche to a formula 1 car. Both are faster than I can utilize.

  • Viktor

    Another reason why not to want XQD in D820 🙁 It seemed optimistic, but now Nikon the only user and Sony the only producer….. ?@!….. not my choice anymore. If Nikon gives us a choice I would go CF+SD again, better than the risc 🙁

    • Spy Black

      The two format option needs to come to an end. Choose one and optimize it.

      • Allen_Wentz

        XQD is so far superior to SD that I want XQD in any new camera, period. If that means XQD + SD like the D500 that is preferable to two SD slots, by a lot.

        And do not fantasize about UHS-III because that is not an option in any camera. And when SD UHS-III does become available the latest XQD version will still be faster.

        • Spy Black

          I don’t care if it’s XQD or SD choose one, and optimize it. If Nikon wants to use XQD in their high end cameras, make it all XQD. If Sony wants to use SD in their A9, make them both uncrippled UHS-II SD.

    • Allen_Wentz

      What risk?

      • Viktor

        Risk, that there will be now producer of this product in the future…. such a “dead end” like ZIP drives, RAM-DVD, Socket 1156 and many other such examples………..

  • disqus_ErOzKSxw9P

    Nikon could produce it in house, that could help turn in More revenue
    for the company and secure a future for the format.

    • With what manufacturing technology? (They don’t have any for making a widget like this) For how much? (making the number of units necessary to service the market demand for these would be prohibitively expensive) And for how long? (Perhaps long enough for Sony to decide to sell them a 1% over cost and REALLY drive Nikon down hill). They COULD buy out the Lexar name and product line, though. Hmmmm.

      • Brubabs

        Nikon buying Lexar is an interesting thought. It would really demonstrate Nikon’s confidence in the longevity of the XQD format and also give Nikon another revenue stream. It seems very unlike Nikon to do that, however.

  • bobgrant

    XQD isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Most people upgrade their cameras FAR faster than card tech changes. So this new is not very important. Anyone want my Zipdrive?

    • I don’t see XQD getting more main stream either.

      • ITN

        Eventually as fps rates and resolution increase the old card standards such as CF and CFast will be phased out and newer standards such as XQD and CFexpress will become more widely used. Who wants to wait forever for data transfers and buffer clearing?

        • The technology not always linear, up to a certain point when you need more power, they give you because the tech can be developed more. But then it can not be pushed more efficiently anymore. Then someone comes out with some new thing, turn upside down everything and there you go, something faster better more efficient is there for you what might not even similar to the tech what we have now and praying to be faster, better.

          • ITN

            Flash card interfaces follow closely the development of computer bus interfaces. PCIe is the current high speed standard bus.

    • Ric of The LBC

      trade you for a Colorado tape drive

      • Tom Bruno

        Only if it has FireWire.

  • Well, as I see the D5/500 have the option to use SD cards, so if this type of card die out there is a way to go back to SD.

    • ITN

      SD is not supported by the D5.

      • no? my bad, sorry.

        • Brubabs

          There is the option of sending the D5 to a Nikon repair facility and replacing the twin XQD slots with twin CF slots. There is a charge for that, of course.

    • Allen_Wentz

      XQD cards are not going to “die out.”

  • Does anybody else fear that Sony will hold premium sensor tech and storage stuff away to keep the competition lower for their own cameras? They are trying hard with the A9 to become the next Canon or Nikon.

    • Bob Thane

      Sensor tech maybe, storage not so much. XQD was developed by the CompactFlash association, so if Sony tries to raise prices too much another company could easily start making the cards at more reasonable prices.

      • Anton B.

        Also, considering Sony hardly uses XQD themselves, they are more likely to leave that business than to push prices up.

        • yes, exactly my point

    • nwcs

      Not in the slightest. Sony Semiconductor is not the same as Sony Imaging. It would be against their own financial interest to act as you suggest.

  • Hans J

    Fu*k!

    • T.I.M

      check your keyboard, must be something wrong with the fucking “C” key

  • TwoStrayCats

    Why? I thought Lexar was a profitable, successful venture…

  • Kári Jensson

    oh….. sony could do such a hitjob on nikon right now “sorry we stop making XQD cards now”

    • yes they can

      • Allen_Wentz

        Not really. Sony participated in a civilized process of format development, and as a civilized (esp. Japanese) firm would never sandbag an industry without first arranging another manufacturer to build cards.

        The firm’s name is Sony not Trump.

        • Ric of The LBC

          but Sony has a pen and a phone

    • T.I.M

      Yep, it’s Sony, not Sonny and Share.

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        lol

  • zombietimeshare

    Hmmm. Is the mythical D820/850/900 still rumored to have a XQD slot?

    • Allen_Wentz

      I sure hope so. SD is much slower, both in-camera and during PP workflow. Especially with expected larger file sizes lame SD-only slots would be really dumb.

      • Jeffnky

        I have had several SD cards fall apart after many uses, the XQD cards are the best I’ve used.

    • yes

  • T.I.M
    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      she looks nice.

  • T.I.M

    WE WANT THE D820/850/900 RIGHT NOW !
    (please thumb up, if we get more than 1 million thumbs up maybe Nikon will get smart and release it now…)

  • AnotherView

    All I can say is BETAMAX!

    • T.I.M

      SVHS!

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        Mini… Dic/sc

  • Gilboa

    I was so pissed off with Micron when I heard that they’re dumping Lexar, which was a great brand!

  • CrashingOut

    That terrifies me as well.
    “Due to ongoing business constraints and market movements, Sony will no longer support universal XQD compatibility – all XQD cards are now XQD1.1* – you will see speeds increase by 0.04% with our new technology, all your old XQD will be upgraded to the new standard seamlessly via Sony rootkit/leaked NSA air gap USB worm/Mossad team at 3AM.”

    *XQD 1.1 is not compatible with any cameras other than Sony. Non-Sony cameras used with XQD 1.1 may result in uncontrollable magnesium fires.

    • T.I.M

      Remember the 35mm film when you could use any brand of film ?

      • Jonno

        I still use film, so digital angst is just something that happens to other people:-D

  • Eric

    Sony this, Sony that. It is obvious that the Sony folks, like Ninjas, are strategically moving over the camera market one step at a time. They don’t dominate that market yet, but their branches are pretty much reaching all over the market in ways that it’s becoming impossible for other participants to act independently from Sony. Most of the others simply MUST deal with Sony products somewhere along the way, and that places Sony at a very strong position against its opponents. Its influence is not diminishing, but rather getting stronger, and for the other players in direct competition with Sony, dependency will never be a sign of market strength.

    • RC Jenkins

      I’d describe Sony as far from being “Ninjas”–they’ve got some of the loudest, attention-seeking marketing out there.

      Sony has been making digital cameras, sensors, and memory for digital cameras for (literally) decades and have often pioneered technology. They’re not new to the industry.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Mavica
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-shot
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_%CE%B1
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick

      And yet, somehow, others have been fine.

      For memory specifially, we’re in just one of many transition periods we’ve already been through. XQD isn’t yet an industry standard, and CFExpress is just on the horizon. Nikon & Sony are pretty much the only ones that use XQD today. You’ll note that the largest industry leader (Canon) doesn’t.

      The question is: should camera companies try to produce every component themselves and avoid standards? Because that requires an incredible amount of time, overhead, and risk that very few can afford, but Sony is one of them. However, while Sony is all over the place and finding its bearings, other companies can often concentrate on making systems that use best-of-breed parts, including from Sony.

      It’s in Sony’s best interest to work with others here. Where would XQD be without the Nikon cameras? And where will it be when Canon presumably goes CFExpress? Likewise, where would Nikon be without Sony sensors?

      My take is that Sony knows (and has known) that imaging is a big industry–and they’re willing to bet on many ventures to ensure they’re always at least tagging along for a piece of the action. That doesn’t mean that they are now or will be in a position run the industry: they’ve got more competition with all others than others have with them.

  • Ben

    Sony is laying down the pimp slaps lately. Nikon better have something more up their sleeve than a bunch of workers forming a camera for an aerial photo. I’ll go out on a limb and say that a new D820 isn’t enough. They need a company image facelift to go along with some forward thinking products. We aren’t in Kansas anymore Toto. Things are moving at light speed and times are a changing’

  • sickheadache

    Sony’s Master Plan is taking hold.

  • Roland Lawrence

    another sony format bites the dust. Sony memory duo anyone?

  • Thomas

    So what about the future Nikon camera models like the rumoured D820 having other than XQD?

  • ちあき・Insignia_chiaki

    Great. Nikon is on the wrong side of history. Again. Good luck trying to play catch up though.

  • maxx

    This is the end… My friend…

  • gly

    Time for Nikon to start making that dual Cfast 2.0 slot for their D5.

    • silmasan

      Pay attention to CFexpress (“continuation” of XQD). Adopting CFast while it’s on its deathbed is not smart. Nikon got it right choosing the one that’s based on PCI express.

  • bharat

    Monopoly in any business is terrifying. That allows a company to set whatever pricing as they please and dictate the market. Worse, since competition is absent, companies no longer see the need to aggressively innovate………………

    • nwcs

      Except they don’t have a monopoly in memory cards. As clearly demonstrated today there is quite a variety of memory cards and usage in the marketplace. And there is no reason to suspect Sony would refuse to let another manufacture XQD. Therefore it’s not an issue.

  • eclairz

    Sony are so big and calculated they can afford to make failures just look at BetaMax, PSVita memory cards, MemoryStick, MiniDisc. Yes they have had successes in CD, DVD, Blu-Ray but looks like XQD and Blu-Ray QHD look to be failures which for them are just a lost opportunity.

    For the people saying that XQD is the future, well if only one company requires them and they aren’t backward compatible with the most popular (SD) storage, then it hasn’t even become standard yet. It doesn’t stop SD cards making a technology which is even better than XQD and making it the new standard even better by making it backward compatible .

    • Eric Bowles

      SD cards don’t approach the speed of PCIExpress. The next generation of CF will be using the XQD format and PCIExpress – it has already been announced.

  • Tom Bruno

    I have some old Betamax tapes that might substitute for digital storage. Hey, they’re Sony. They’ll never be discontinued…

  • Caffeine

    I wonder if Nikon has made last minute changes to the D820 to counter the Sony a9 and pending a7III announcements?? Really want to hear some news!

    • Bob Thane

      Unlikely. The A9 is the D5’s problem, and the A7 the D750’s problem. The D820 is going to be tackling the A7RII and future A7RIII.

      • Caffeine

        a7R III I meant to write. I meant that Sony is trying hard to to steal the limelight lately…

  • Eric A

    Need an SD to XQD adapter card.

  • Eric Bowles

    A couple of items missed by some:
    Micron is discontinuing all consumer memory products. Volume was down 20% in their most recent financial reporting. Most likely they are selling Lexar. Toshiba just sold their consumer memory card business to Bain Capital.

    XQD is being migrated toward CFExpress – same as CFast. The plus is the CFExpress standard uses the XQD form factor and uses PCIE 3.0 – an update from PCIE 2.0 on the XQD cards. There is a good chance of compatibility between XQD and CFExpress. There is no chance of compatibility between CFast and CFExpress.

    I’m not sure whether this means XQD prices will go up or down. I don’t like having a single supplier – but we are not there yet. Lexar will continue to produce memory cards until there is resolution on what happens.

    • Brubabs

      So why isn’t CFExpress being migrated towards XQD rather than the other way around if they are that similar and XQD already exists in the marketplace? Are PCIE 2.0 and 3.0 incompatible?

      • Eric Bowles

        CFExpress is the next iteration of XQD – it incorporates PCIE 3.0. PCIE 3.0 appears to have a second bus (referred to a 2 lanes, but in future iterations up to 8 lanes) so there is a physical difference – much like SD cards with UHS-I to UHS-II. CFExpress cards are likely to work in XQD compatibility mode in an XQD camera.

        • br0xibear

          ” CFExpress cards are likely to work in XQD compatibility mode in an XQD camera.”
          I’m afraid not, there is no compatability between XQD and CFexpress.
          Scroll up and you’ll see my reply to silmasan, and the email Delkin sent when I enquired about this very thing.

      • silmasan

        Actually, it seems to be more political than technical. SanDisk, Canon and the CF Association itself favored CFast despite XQD’s technical advantages (esp. in the long term).

        “XQD” is however, a trademark of Sony (this alone could cause a lot of issues/concerns to the other parties), and something must have been happening between them that prevented consensus between the makers. “CFast” and “CFexpress” are trademarks of CFA.

  • Allan

    I don’t understand why Micron would announce their discontinuing consumer cards before they had a firm buyer for Lexar.

    • Brubabs

      It does make me wonder if Micron has already quietly tried to peddle Lexar and found no takers.

    • Eric Bowles

      Part of it is financial presentation. The top line business is off by more than 20% so it is losing money – and the main use is in cameras which are in decline. Announcing that it is discontinued means that the losses will not be held against the Micron stock price. It will be stated as “Income/Loss from Discontinued Operations” and not be considered part of the operating results. Toshiba did exactly the same thing and it took about 9 months to sell the unit to a consortium including Bain Capital.

  • Hans J

    SD cards for life!!! Maybe they will make an XQD adapter to SD cards??

    • Antonio

      You’d need two adapters as the camera has two XQD drives and they would get the video professionals asking them the reason for the change and if they would exchange their cards for the SDs..not a par value for sure…

      • Hans J

        XQD is dead :-/

        • Antonio

          If you say so maybe its time for Sony to reconsider what to do about some models of their professional video cameras and the explanations to give customers paying 15K and above.

  • T.I.M

    An other D900 listing page.
    Translation (from Vietmamese): “Camera is about to appear, parameters are updating”

    http://www.mayanhjp.com/nikon-d900_7l38l847.aspx

    • Allan

      T.I.M,

      I have faith in your predictive abilities.

      (Peter and Thom are looking over their shoulders, at you.)

      🙂

  • Ric of The LBC

    So this is why Thom is taking his annual internet sabbatical a month yearly.

  • Spy Black

    I didn’t say it was owned by Sony, and I didn’t say anything about CF cards. Perhaps you should read a little more carefully.

  • br0xibear

    There is no compatability between XQD and CFexpress, I’ve had that comfirmed from Delkin.
    Scroll down to my reply to silmasan and you’ll see the email I recieved from Delkin.

    • Francesc Genové
      • br0xibear

        That article is from October 2016, I recieved an email from Delkin a few days ago. The article says “theoretically, any camera produced to work with CFexpress will work with any XQD card currently on the market.”
        Note the word “theoretically”.
        It does not mention anything about CFexpress cards working in XQD slots, which is the main point…ie will the CFexpress cards work in my D5 or D500.

    • Francesc Genové

      Where it says what you say here??? For the rest PCIe is backwards compatible. Look at my previous post.

      • br0xibear

        Scroll down the page.
        CFexpress cards will not work in XQD slots, that information is from Delkin.
        Delkin are the only manufacturers to announce a CFexpress card so far.
        Peter (admin) will be making another post about this.

        • Francesc Genové

          I did, but that doesn’t say what you claim. One rapid question: why make it not compatible if it uses the same form factor and the bus is backwards compatible? To f*ck the users?

          • br0xibear

            Sorry but I don’t understand what you’re talking about ?
            The question I asked Delkin was very clear…
            Q: I have a question about the Industrial CFX 1.0 Cards you announced…
            Do you know if these cards will work in a DSLR camera with an XQD slot, ie Nikon D5 or Nikon D500 bodies ?
            A: Thank you for your inquiry!
            CFX 1.0 will not work in a host that currently requires an XQD. The connector is the same, but the technology is different (per the CF
            Associations specification).

            • Francesc Genové

              Interesting answer, but why on Earth XQD 2.0 cards work on a Nikon D4? First XQD 1.0 cards where more different than XQD 2.0 are from CFX 1.0 card?
              And, another interesting question? On what card readers are they testing this new incompatible CFX 1.0 cards? ’cause no one is making them. And, in the presentation of the last Flash Memory Summing it says that “there already available” (XQD 2.0 card readers perhaps?).
              What I’m trying to explain to you is that it makes no sense what they’re saying.
              CFX uses the same form factor, connector (again, why use the same connector if the card is incompatible, to generate confusion in the costumers?) and the only technological difference is the NVMe (XQD 2.0 is already PCIe 3.0) and the controller (from XQD 2.0 upwards) are embedded on the cards (that’s the thing that make the “jump” from XQD 1.0 to 2.0 scarier, the “USB” cards that had no internal controller, the reader has to had it).
              Thus, the final question, why are incompatible? It makes no sense.

            • br0xibear

              Since Delkin are making CFexpress cards, they then must have access to cameras, or other equipment, that allows the cards to be tested on…otherwise how would they test and make them.
              If they were compatable then they would say so. Whatever the reasons are, CFexpress cards will not work in XQD slots say the only company who are making them so far.

              You could do what I did and ask them ?
              https://www.delkin.com/products/industrial-cfexpress/

  • The Hollow cost

    Ufs is the future

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