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Nikon D810 sensor: new DxOMark leader

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DxOMark published their test results for the Nikon D810. The new camera showed marginal sensor improvement over the previous D800/D800E models but was still able to take the top rating in their sensor database:

"Overall we could hardly expect a major-breakthrough in a mid-term update like this but it is nonetheless an excellent result. Landscape and Architecture and Interior photographers will welcome the new lower native ISO (now ISO 64) and with it the slight increase in dynamic range. New features, such the electronic second curtain and improved mirror balancer are sensible additions for high resolution captures. Anyone who hesitated over investing in one of the D800 models will likely find the extended capabilities of the Nikon D810 sorely tempting."

DxOMark top 10 rated camera sensors (by overall score):

DxOMark-top-10-rated-camera-sensors
The Nikon D810 is currently in stock at BestBuyOneCall and WEX Photographic (UK). B&H is expected to get their second D810 shipment today. Amazon will have it in stock on July 26th. A grey marker D810 camera is already listed on eBay for $3,099.99.

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  • Bamboojled

    Wow, I really wasn’t expecting an improvement in Dynamic Range over the 800E/800…that is pretty impressive.

    • Eric Calabros

      14.8 vs. 14.4?

      • not sam

        0.4 EVS gain = $3300

        if you can spare…

      • nobody cares

        I’m looking at the low light shooting, and the 800E comes out ahead. If I made my purchasing decision based on this, I’d buy an E. If the scene is well lit, they’ll all look great, but if you ever shoot in low light, the E will perform slightly better (assuming these numbers are meaningful).

        • introvert

          sony tbh

        • MUAH

          The difference between D800(E) and D810 in high ISO performance is inside “the measurement accuracy”: no real differences there. If there’s like >500 points difference, you might actually be able to see it in practice.

          Most likely the more stable mirror and shutter will mean more in practice than that point difference.

          dxomark doesn’t cover video. I wonder if there has been more advances. Hi ISO video of D800 isn’t really a beauty.

        • MyrddinWilt

          Not really. They are pretty much identical as far as performance goes with the D810 having a very slight edge due to the expanded range.

          Key to this is that once you wind the ISO up above a certain level you are not getting any more signal. All you are doing is collecting more noise. And that point is surprisingly low. Its less than 1600ISO for pretty much every DSLR ever made.

          When you crank up the gain beyond that point you are trading dynamic range for gain. Basically you are throwing away any parts of the image brighter than a certain level.

          So more dynamic range means they have the noise issue under control better. Its only a small improvement but its not zero.

          That said, sample variation and measurement inaccuracies can explain the modest improvement.

    • jk

      it is within the range of measurement error.

      • neonspark

        maybe so, but with base 64 ISO showing up, you are really going to enjoy that.

      • Measuring Devices

        Exactly.

        • neonspark

          well, they ran this test several times so you’re looking at an average. and the measurement is half a stop which is non trivial.

          • introvert

            Non trivial if you want it to be (because you’re defending your current position) but if people just want a better camera than what you own, that half stop becomes VERY trivial. You just don’t like the fact tht someone can buy a better camera than you.

            • Neopulse

              Half stop, plus a few other perks and at the same price.

    • Steve Griffin

      I bought a D810 a few days ago and it’s certainly a nicer camera than my D800E’s. Besides the nice (quiet) shutter and better rear LCD there’s almost NO AMP NOISE! I don’t know how these guys measure their low noise numbers but I can assure you the D810 allows pushing shadow levels way more than the D800E.. almost as much as my K-5. :)

      • Paula’s Chicken

        Or maybe you just don’t know how to use a camera. Your photos certainly don’t reflect the quality of an FX camera. Maybe you should stick to compact cameras or cell phone cameras. Or maybe you’re just a camera collector. like 90% of the people on this site and DPR.

        • Joe Boston

          You sound bitter that you probably can’t afford a D810.

          • Michiel953

            That comment would be so much more apt on a Leica forum…

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Agree…

            • Guest

              And everybody knows that everyone who buys a camera hangs out here…

          • Paula’s Chicken

            LOL. I make in the middle six figures. I can certainly afford the D810. I am always amused by people like Steve and yourself, who need to buy the latest and greatest gadgets, yet lack the skills to use even a compact camera. As if somehow magically you will become a great photographer, by having a D810. You won’t – you will still suck. The D800E is an amazing camera (way too good for you folks) and if you guys can’t take good photos with a D800E, it’s not the camera. Remember the old adage – a poor workman blames his tools.

            • Matt_XVI

              I *think* I’m considered a pretty good photographer and am still pushing out award winning images with our D3S, D700 and D90 trifecta. No need for the latest and greatest when there has been fantastic digital camera’s out there for 6+ years.

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Good for you Matt. Exactly my point. Nothing against people buying and enjoying the latest and greatest – but I definitely don’t want to listen to how the new camera is SO MUCH better than the older model, when these people can’t shoot a decent picture to save their lives.

            • Matt_XVI

              Agree with you Paul’s Chicken all but the last point. ;-) Photography is subjective and I’m not too quick to judge others work if they’re proud of what they’ve done. But, yes, other than that I’m 100% on board with you.

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Okay yes, I agree with you on that.

            • Paula’s Chicken

              I respect your opinion and am not going to argue against it.

            • Entitled One

              “but I definitely don’t want to listen to how the new camera is SO MUCH better than the older model”

              Then don’t listen. What a tool.

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Another moron who doesn’t know what photography as an art is, but would rather “collect” cameras. You certainly are the entitled one – entitled to food stamps and welfare.

            • Guest

              Please point us to your photography so we can learn from a master. Put up or shut up.

            • Guest

              You are beyond learning with and IQ below that of a turtle. Don’t bother!

            • Paula’s Chicken

              You are beyond learning with an IQ below that of a turtle. Don’t bother!

            • Guest

              I thought so.

            • Jeff Hunter

              I was just about to type those exact words. This guy is probably 19 years old and living in his mom’s basement.

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Another nutjob. You should stick to the mediocre portraits you take of kids in Austin.

            • Jeff Hunter

              Thanks for the laughs this afternoon Chicken Man.

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Really? How are the frogs in Louisiana treating you?

            • Jeff Hunter

              Good! Thanks for asking ;-)

            • umeshrw

              Your slurs are good. Now if you could show us your work……

            • http://dizeman.com/ DIZEMAN

              You sound like a very angry and sad person. I am sorry for whatever happened in your life to make you such an asshole. You don’t have to talk to people the way you do, but you appear to enjoy being mean to people. That’s a sickness! Seek help!

            • Bokeh Monk

              I’m still using my D700 ( new 2011 ), but I will designate it as my ‘backup body’ this Christmas. As per my well thought out equipment budget.

              Here’s a couple of guidelines I follow :

              # 1 : NEVER GO INTO DEBT PURCHASING CAMERA EQUIPMENT – IF A SPECIAL NEED ARISES, RENT !

              # 2 : ONLY AFTER SERIOUS AND THROUGH SCRUTINY OF NEEDS, NOT WANT, PURCHASE EQUIPMENT !

            • alternative

              if you get run over by a truck… you will be glad you used an older D700, not new D810….

              over planning, while life flows away…
              live a little..

            • RichMonster

              I thought my D700 would be my back-up cam to my D800… more often than not though, the D800 has proved to be just too awesome for the task. Not everyone needs the massive files and detail it delivers. I love what it does, but it is a tool I use for the right job. I really did think it would be used for everything. I now have two streams of camera use. NIkon for when I’m fully on it and a Fuji X-Pro for carrying all the time!

            • MarkH

              I kept my Nikon FM, my first camera, and used constantly for over 20 years, before I ‘upgraded’ in 2005 – to an F3HP. My F3 died in 2011? and I bit the bullet and bought a D700 new and at 1/2 the price of the original.

              If I could go back to my FM I would, simply because I could operate it blindly and always got my shot. However, I love my D700 – no film! I, like you, will be keeping it a very long time.

            • peteee363

              the d700 was an awesome camera. I just sold mine, because I rarely used it after getting a d800e. but Nikon should make an update to that camera, it was great. I am now sorry I sold it, and am thinking of getting a df as a replacement for the d700. the d800 is a bit too much for a street shooter.

            • Stan Chung

              DF is very cool. You’ll love it for the right reasons.

            • nice

              with your 20 years of skill…. camera is not the limiting factor

            • Steve Griffin

              What an absurd remark. I have a fine arts degree so I’m definitely “qualified”. Lets see a link to your work loudmouth.

            • $

              well paid with time to troll…

            • Chicken Plucker

              You’re NOT suppose to include the digits AFTER the decimal point . . . Like a millionaire has nothing better to do than to troll [NR]!

            • Neopulse

              Pretty sure 6-figures is $100,000 area. Not millions

            • Paula’s Chicken

              Making 6 figures makes one a millionaire? Wow – you certainly have the IQ of a turtle.

            • 5DollarFootlong

              Paula can we please see your work?

              Also I’ve never met someone who makes 6 figures that brags about their salary, It’s usually losers pretending they’re someone, when in reality momma is gonna come down those stairs any second now and tell you dinner is ready :)

            • Sashimi

              for fuck sake shut up, please.

            • Tooma

              I’d like to see proof of income pls.

        • Steve Griffin

          I know how to use my cameras just fine thanks but I do have a habit of uploading indiscriminately, I’ll give you that. Being an artist (painter and musician) I don’t expect to fulfil anyone else’s expectations but my own so you can keep your advice. You give the impression that you actually went looking for my work with the sole purpose of attacking me – that’s sad.

          • Rey

            The artist is supposed to make himself/herself happy first before putting anyone before themselves. Any one that loves their work is a bonus.

    • Global

      Why is the D800E ISO score better, though??

      D800E is cleaner than D810? Or is this another MOE?

      • Global

        126 / 2927 = 0.042.

        Is 4.2% within the standard of error? A 5% difference sounds significant. But if its +/- a few %, then really negligible.

    • Ian Lindo

      What I’m curious about is whether it has anything to do with the new base ISO of 64.

  • Eric Calabros

    in DPR studio samples D810 has less chroma noise at higher ISOs compared to D800 but the ISO score is same here: 2853! even not a single point higher :-)

    • neonspark

      maybe due to the fact they resample the 36mp image to 8mp?

      • Eric Calabros

        So noise should be even less

        • neonspark

          what I’m saying is that there is little noise on either thus cannot really be measured by looking at the full crops like most people do.

    • HF

      Agree, I see that at Dpreview, too. But the score is a composite value, being a weighted measure and as such not reliable. Look at the measurement curves.

    • bertbopper

      The Iso score says NOTHING about very high iso. It says at what ISO the
      quality is ASTONISHING with almost no noise. So the results at
      6400-25600 iso are irrelevant for this test. That’s what pisses Canon
      fans: Canon aims at usable crazy high iso, Nikon at perfect quality to
      as high iso as possible, which is what DXO likes.

  • syd

    If DxO has any credibility, D810 should be called D801……

    • Global

      You mean Nikon. DxO doesn’t name the products!

      D801E ;-)

      If Nikon did that, they’d have a good 200 years of naming left for each camera line at least, haha.

  • Michiel953

    He he. Well, so much for hurrying to the shop(s) to throw my D800 over the counter…

    OTOH, forking over some 1800 euros for a better grip and a slightly quieter shutter doesn’t sound so bad…

    • Global

      Its -VERY- much quieter than D700, just to help D700 owners understand. I can summarize like this: If you use D700 in living room, someone in the bedroom can hear you firing away, “who the eff is making all that clicking noise!?”.

      But if you are using D810 in the living room, probably no one will notice you anywhere else in the house. Its thats good.

      • Michiel953

        My visual memory is a lot better than my audio memory so, while I can see that my D800 produces files that are vastly better than what my D700 did, in many ways, I just can’t seem to remember what my D700 sounded like.

        But I didn’t fire it off a lot in my living room, that might explain it.

        • Espen4u

          Oh, it was the otherway around for you then?

          • Michiel953

            I have no recollection of how my D700 sounded, so I can’t make that comparison.

  • Sam Huffman

    Further proof that my D800 now sucks :(

    • photoroto

      Go out and take a Pulitzer Prize winning photo with it, will pull you right out of that dump.

      • Ordnas_selac

        true, after you take a Pulitzer winning photo you will probably able to afford a new camera. :P

    • Espen4u

      So does mine. Knew that the best photographers allways have shiny equipment.

  • jk

    since I got first copy of my D810 last week, I was seeing the exactly same file quality from this camera compared to my D800E or Sony A7R.
    in practice to be very honest for sheer IQ, there is no reason to upgrade your D800E to this one.

    but for some people the set of all minor but significant feature refinements really worth the extrama money, it has better shutter , better finder , better sealing, better LV mode and better video.
    I may keep it or return it I do not know it yet, but to be very very honest, I am disappointed with it.
    The EFC only be used with MLU, not in LV mode, it is silly.

    • Steve Griffin

      It’s much easier to focus a tilt/shift lens using the rear LCD in magnified and split modes on the D810 than the “hazy guess” that doing the same thing on a D800/E is.

      Also, as I stated in another post, the pink amp glow issue that plagues my D800E’s is all but gone in the D810.

      Live View buffer delays are short AND you can make aperture adjustments while it’s writing, unlike the D800/E cameras.

    • TR

      EFC works in LV as well FYI (I have one, so this isn’t conjecture).

      • KS

        Yes–the D810 manual clearly states on p. 42 that you can enable EFCS while in LV.

    • Photographer

      EFC can be used in live view if you activate MLU

    • Tooma

      They also look identical to me. I’ll need more time to compare.

  • travis

    fucc the d800e is 126 points better in low light section…..why is the d800e superior to the d810….cannot undertsand.,…anyone?

    I want the d810 leading all categories…..so lowl light round about 3350 even better than the df….that would be amaizing….so have to wait for df2 or d900 then….

    • sieno

      me too i cannot undertsand why d800e better low light score thzan the d810…..d800e no aa but olpf…d810 no aa and no olpf….so what the hell is the reason??

      No one?

      • Mike

        Most likely tolerance. Everything has a tolerance ( plus or minus something) If they ran the test again, I bet sports ISO would be a different number. Look at the numbers and what it means in real life. Nothing. Really, the D800E and D810 have the same sports ISO. You’ll never detect the difference while editing your photos.

      • Steve Griffin

        I don’t believe that figure as my D810 has way better blacks than my D800E’s. The Pink Amp Glow problem is virtually gone in the 810 and only shows up at maximum ISO’s whereas both my D800E’s suffer at ISO1600 1/30 when trying to push the shadows a bit.

        • Carl Showalter

          Most people would not even see a difference in what you call “way better”….

          • Steve Griffin

            OK, a fair point although the glow is pretty obvious in night and astronomical shots, especially if you try to push the shadows a little. There’s quite a bright pink glow along the bottom of the image (D800E) at those settings heading to a more even glow over the entire sensor at higher settings. This pink amp glow doesn’t appear to kick in on the D810 until the very highest ISO’s. The glow is usually caused by heat in the circuitry affecting the sensor and so the new camera must have a cooler running chip and/or better insulation.

      • EnPassant

        Because that was a choice Nikon made, sacrificing a tiny bit low light performance for increased dynamic range.
        Note that D810 scores 14.8 in dynamic range while D800E “only” reach 14.3 steps.
        For the type of photography D810 is best suited for 0.5 step increased dynamic range is more useful than 1/25 stop higher ISO performance.

      • photoroto

        Come on folks! A hundred or so ISO points in that range is such a flea-sized fraction of an f-stop it’s meaningless!

        • Tooma

          I’ll compare I have both

      • Tooma

        Probably because it’s a new sensor. Their goal is better low iso performance which is much more exciting. Ppl need a mind shift over iso performance.

    • Mark S.

      Those ISO differences you see are within margins of error on DXO, don’t read into such small differences too much.

    • Tooma

      Why is everybody still obsessed with low light performance? The 800 series is not for you if that’s what you’re looking for. We’re also not going to see major gains in that dept for quite some time if ever. It’s going to be a megapixel race now so except it.

  • Maji

    I thought the D810 had the same sensor as the A7R or may be the same one as D800/E. However, it looks like Nikon has some magic software to extract more from the sensor. Maybe these are within measurement errors, but the Nikons have a higher score over the A7R.

    • neonspark

      the A7R raw compression ruins it.

      • MrBig

        I tried finding an A7r RAW file showing losses but couldn’t do it. Found a website showing some sort of artifacts apparently caused by the compression but they refused to give me the file :(

    • MrBig

      I’m thinking same sensor with different systems is about it. TBH. the differences are so minute that I doubt anyone could ever tell the differences. In fact, I compared files(RAW) from Imaging Resources from both systems and could of sworn that the A7r produced better red channel output . – And so I’m really not sure what to make of it DXO’s measurements myself. Though it looks like the differences are beyond the human eyes capacity to identify.

      • Maji

        I agree… I think the differences between the output of the top few cameras are almost impossible to discern by the human eye.

  • travis

    the d810 is a bargain….even if you buy adiitonally the wt 5a 2400 euros without and 2800 euros with wt5a….sadly old europe has to pay 3300 euros in order to get a d810 without wt5a…..good to live in the states….just recomend everybody to buy their d810s while traveling to states or let you bring your d810s nfrom friends living in the states….

    • stefan

      totally agree my aunt will bring me my new 810 when he will visiting germany in autumn…..

      • Michiel953

        So your aunt is a he?

        • photoroto

          How good is your German? ;)

          • Michiel953

            Mein Deutsch reicht; glaub’ mich, du Arsch*ole… (spoken in a believable Schwarzenegger accent)!

            • photoroto

              Danke, Ich bräuchte, dass.

            • Michiel953

              Na ja, jetzt hab’ Ich die Nase voll!

              P.s.: I’m not German…

            • hagen das

              voll = troll?

            • photoroto

              Wo ist das Badezimmer?

            • mikeswitz

              Woher haben sie Deutsch gelernt ?

            • Michiel953

              In der Mittelschule, oder so etwas. Ganz egal nicht wahr?

            • mikeswitz

              Ja vohl!

          • jvossphoto

            Ich will D810;^) and that’s only because I’m a huge Rammstein fan.

            • peterw

              For Rammsstein you need something like a D4s. Or better still a F2.

    • Horshack

      Hmm, hard to consider the D810 a bargain at $3,300/USD when mint, lightly-used copies of the D800 are selling for $1,800. No doubt the D810 has some nice improvements but are they worth $1500 vs a used D800?

  • Lfber

    No reason for trading my D800 for a D810!

    • Michiel953

      My thoughts exactly. Well, apart from that much better grip, and the 20 grs weight loss!

      • photoroto

        And hugely reduced shutter vibration (and noise), that’s a biggy IMHO.

        • Michiel953

          Photo, my comment was (slightly) in jest, and probably just demonstrates the mental torment I’m currently going through (ha ha).

          As I mentioned before, it was quite a shock to me that a demo 810 (set to Jpeg and all) nailed focus every time without any finetuning, with my most used lenses (58 and 1.4/35), while I’m still fumbling around finetuning my D800. +9 for the 58, +7 for the 35? I hate the hassle, but love the results when focus is where I wanted it to.

          Shot some portraits, ambient light, with the 58 today, f2.8, f4.0, focus appeared just fine.

          Mmm.

          • photoroto

            I can now shoot with a 400mm on a mediocre tripod! That’s Huge enough for me! Over the range I tested which is 1/30 to 2 seconds.

            With the 800e I didn’t have to pixel peep to see the damage, and I never found a fully satisfactory solution to the problem when using a tripod.

            I wonder if the mirror is still in motion for those shorter exposures? Even without mirror up, there were was only very minor smearing around 1/4 to 1 second that was much less than with the 800e, but the other speeds were clean.

            But at any rate the shutter clearly got some serious attention. The “incremental things” on the D810 add up to a lot of mojo in some areas and I have to think Nikon spent a lot of resources on what seems a minor update.

            • Michiel953

              I have to agree, but I’m still wondering if the grand total of incremental improvements is worth forking out a substantial amount of the hard earned (well, I’m not a pro, that might make it easier, ha ha) against handing a 4.5k clicks just over a year old 800, which is very satisfactory.

              Apart from: unreliable AF, slightly uncomfortable grip (D700 was much better), high ISO (over 2500) could be better.

              As for the shutter/mirrorbox improvements: if that would allow me to shoot at inverted fl in auto iso, instead of one stop faster, that would be very helpful, as the majority of my mundane shots require slowish shutterspeeds and ISO’s over 800.

            • Tooma

              Stick with your D800

            • Michiel953

              You have a point Tooma… ;-)

    • neonspark

      I’m in the same boat but the ISO64 DR looks very nice to have. Basically half a stop and cleaner shadows is something I can’t have enough of.

  • rt-photography

    the numbers mean jack shit. D600 says better than D3 but in reality IQ sucks ass in D600 vs my D3, or my D3s. I dont believe these tests for a second. more resolving pwoer sure. but theres more to it than that. colors are crap with the D600. high iso as well is crap in D600 even though it says its better up to iso 6400. but really it isnt.

    • robert

      its just too many dust particles on the sensor….thtas wyh your d600 sucks….trade it in for afree and new d610….still better due to clean sensor…hehe…

      • rt-photography

        Im one of the few that got a good copy. never saw a dot of oil. and it still sucks. basically got it so I can dod 1080p video as well.

    • W

      The comparison is made by downsampling the files to 8MP. At it native resolution, D3S will be unmatched. FYI You can check native resolution numbers too on DXO’s website.

    • Ian Lindo

      Go ahead and downsize the D600 files to 12 MP and see if you still don’t think they’re better.

      • rt-photography

        I have all thre of those cameras I listed. it sucks at anything above iso 3200 compared to the D3 and D3s and while it looks like its resolving better the quality of the image is nothing compared to the D3 and D3s. resolution is only a very small part of it.

        • Ian Lindo

          So you even admit it’s sharper…but you still say the images are “inferior”, based on your own opinion and nothing else?

          Are you basing image quality solely on ISO performance? If you’re doing a lot of shooting at high ISO the D800 (probably) isn’t the camera for you. That’s all it is.

          • rt-photography

            sharper is not everything. it can hold more detail, but theres so much more than that. WB, dynamic range, color..I didnt say im shooting with a D800.

            I have D3 D3s and D600

            im talking about dxomark and their “tests” im making a point about their very fake (to me) tests these guys “do” that are very transparent.

            Imo its heavily biased on payment under the table. notice how every camera released is the “new winner”

            • Ian Lindo

              OK.

              I get what you’re saying but it’s not like the numbers are flat out lying. So many people who’ve shot a D800/E and the new D810 have nothing but praises for the wealth of dynamic range and beautiful colors you can get out of it.

              The only negative I’ve heard of regarding IQ is that green cast that many users were recording.

              And I’m sorry but under-the-table payment? Do you have anything to back that up or are you just assuming? Yes, new camera, new/modified sensor, obviously it’s going to be just a tad bit better. They took the already excellent D800 and made it just a bit better, hence the new top-rated sensor. It’s not bias at work, it’s just the way things are.

              Enjoy your D3s.

            • rt-photography

              you keep saying D800. I have no idea about that camera. my point. what dxomark says, on everything they say, I dont believe.

              Have that green color cast. its just annoying to the eye.

              its my opinion they get payed under the table. im entitled to my opinion like you are to yours. you cant prove they dont, like I cant prove they do. no one knows but all I say is that I dont believe them and I dont take numbers for how a product behaves. IQ on the D600 isnt as great as they note compared to the D3/D3s.

              I love my D3/D3s and very much do enjoy shooting with them.

            • rt-photography

              im all too happy when nikon delivers something good. they need to wake up. I love nikon but im extremely pissed at their direction as of late. im glad their stock is down and their revenues as of late has taken a down, but I want them to come back. its like hitting your own child. you know it hurts u more than it does them but it needs to be done. it isnt the nikon I know. they need to bounce back.

            • Tooma

              How come Nikon is crushing Canon on DXO Mark? Whether current or older cameras?

            • rt-photography

              what are you 12?

              numbers mean nothing. nikons stock is down in the lowest its been in 3 years. revenue is crap for 3 months straight.

              in the wedding industry, its almost completely dominated by canon dslr. there are some panasonic as of late and the regular shoulder cams but not only videogs but stills as well.

              and youre talking to me about numbers that means nothing. what world you live in?

              I live in the world where nikon is on the down and youre talking about some stupid meaningless numbers only us geek guys (and not buying consumers) care about.

            • rt-photography

              crushing..lets talk crushing on where it really matters

              in the wedding industry, in my country, canon is crushing (basically crushed) nikon in the video (where its pretty much 90%) and stills (around 70%) PJ and sports, canon is crushing there as well.

              look at nikons stock. lowest in 3 years. 3 quarterly revenues are down. china bans D600, QC issues, CS issues.

              so you want to point your finger at a number which means nothing, the bottom line is that nikon is on the down. the recent “restructuring” notice they gave in their last quarter is a huge indication they are hurting.

            • Tooma

              I was talking about DXO Mark #s and you respond with sales lol. 2 separate discussions

            • Greg

              You are rt. Sharpness is better on D600. The rest of what you talk about can be modified in LR.

            • rt-photography

              I shoot 2000 pics a wedding, I try to get accuracy in camera as close as I can. having to retouch every single picture for more than 2-3 things, then that person is not a good photographer. people have the mindset of eh, who cares, fix it in LR. but at least im not a “me too” instagram filter photog. usually those who use those filters are those who compensate for bad exposure/lighting /composition.

              I have LR but dont touch it. acdsee is much faster. much. not processing wise, thats hardware related, but the gui is much faster. LR has more tools, which most wont ever use.

              I use ACDSEE PRO 7 for exposure, crop, WB, rotate, BW, clone, perspective distortion, dodge burn, levels, sharpening all the basics. there is no competition in speed. PS for heavier work like copy pasting eyes to certain images.

    • Tooma

      I’d have to agree there’s something special about the pro bodies that set them apart.

      • rt-photography

        I can deal with the build quality of any camera nikon has. the bigger thing you can notice with the pro bodies is the speed in how fast it reacts. shutter lag, response time from the time I release the shutter till it starts shooting. thats extremely fast. you feel it. it gives you a sense of confidence. no camera except the single digit cameras can do this.

  • Amir

    I really don’t know why every time a new camera pops in,DXo puts it in the first class!

    • n11

      *Not every time
      **Technology gets better

    • Ian Lindo

      If that was true, you’d see every iteration of the Canon rebel at the top of the list as it was released. Yet, not even the highest price Canons can make it to the top ten so…..

      • photoroto

        As a landscaper the only thing that really makes sense to me in DxO rankings is dynamic range, and Canon isn’t there yet. Good Canon ergonomics alone is not enough of a temptation for me, but we’ll see what tomorrow brings.

    • Tooma

      You want new products to have lower standards?

  • Bokeh Monk

    As always, I take what DxO reports with a “grain” of salt, after all it’s never really representative of how a real camera, used by a real photographer, in real world situations performs! Though the updated feature set of the D810 over the D800(E) do seem to suggest it will soon become the go to DSLR for the next couple of years…

    • neonspark

      well good thing they never claim to be “representative of how a real camera, used by a real photographer, in real world situations performs”
      they are sensor benchmark.

      • Erin

        I’d rather trust “real photographers” that actually have the camera for options as to the true value of the D810.

    • photoroto

      Don’t be so hung up on the real world!

      • Jorge

        Exactly!! Lala land is so much happier!

  • Steve Griffin

    Looking at a few samples on IR I noticed that high ISO noise seems more obvious on the D810, probably due to the total lack of an AA filter. Even the D800E has AA filter (with a cancellation filter) so some degradation will occur. And the D810 shows more obvious moire so it kinda makes sense that whilst the noise isn’t actually greater that it can appear to be greater.

    • Saffron Blaze

      Not challenging your assertion, just can’t see the connection between AA filter and noise at high ISO.

      • Steve Griffin

        I only said that it is more obvious (in D810).. not that there was actually more noise.

    • HF

      On DPREVIEW I see an advantage for D810. But keep in mind that ACR is used and is not supporting D810 in an optimal way.

  • nwcs

    But does it blend?

    • photoroto

      I believe it only slices and dices. Blending will available in the D810s.

      But that was enough for me!

      • Michiel953

        Au contraire. I have a feeling the D810 will blend in well.

  • fjfjjj

    …because the newer version of a DxO partner company’s camera can NEVER EVER EVER be allowed to have the same score as the older version.

    • Yoyo

      Lets see D610 vs D600 …

      • Eno

        There is also a sensor sample variance, some sensors are a little bit better than others.

  • anon

    So basically it’s better but realistically you won’t notice it except for the improved high iso performance.

    • arachnophilia

      the higher ranking is due to the addition of a LOWER ISO (which has more DR, better color depth, etc). if you look at the rankings, it’s pretty similar to the D800(e) everywhere else.

  • neonspark

    I was blown away by Lloyd Chambers ISO64 samples of shadow and DR detail. wow. Nikon just hit another home run for landscape and studio photographers who love light and DR.

    • Saffron Blaze

      Low light is wonderful, but it not something I do. Having ISO 64 and that DR is what keeps the buyer’s remorse away :-)

  • Clubber

    I feel like Rip Van Winkle. I still own a D700. Back to my cave I go.

    • arachnophilia

      i still own a D700 too. the D810 is almost tempting.

      if they’d brought the speed up just a little, and made sRaw not the dumbest thing in the world, i’d have been all over it.

    • Jorge

      Same here! Though I do have a D800 as well

    • Saffron Blaze

      Me too… well, until last night ;-)

    • Geoff

      I know the feeling and my D700 still gives excellent images.

    • Nexus

      My D700 will be relegated to ‘backup’ – can hardly wait to get this into the studio!

  • arachnophilia

    DxO’s top ranked camera is the red epic dragon, at 101. it’s just unlisted.

  • Meaningless Data

    ………and the sample size is what?

  • Ms.KrystalMeth

    If I see dem computation just right…I am sitting pretty with my old, but number wise an excellent D800. I am gonna pass on this D801 and wait for the new D820 with 50mp in 2015. Yep that soon. lol

  • Ms.KrystalMeth

    If I see dem computation just right…I am sitting pretty with my old, but number wise an excellent D800. I am gonna pass on this D801 and wait for the new D820 with 50mp in 2015. Yep that soon. lol

    • Steve Griffin

      How do you know that Nikon won’t release a 54mp D4x at Photokina this year? ;)

      • Jeff Hunter

        because Nikon Rumors makes no mention of it

        • Steve Griffin

          The D3x was released 10 months before the “s” (all the D3 models had different sensors, unlike the D4′s) so we may never see a 54mp D4x anyway. It’s possible a 24MP version may be announced I suppose. Perhaps a 54mp D900 at PK this year?

      • Ms.KrystalMeth

        …and How do you know they are? I know they are using the 50 plus mp from Sony…but what is the camera called? and will 4K be included?

        • Steve Griffin

          I don’t know that they are at all and I am just having a conversation about the possibilities.

      • Will

        D4X is not going to happen

        A $10k+ high megapixel 135 DSLR has no place in this market

        Why would anybody buy a 50mp full frame for $10k when you can buy a 50mp medium format (Pentax 645z) for the same price?

        The D3X was released to compete with the Canon 1Ds Mark III, and they both lost HUGE market share to the Canon 5D Mark II for users that require high megapixel

        1Ds Mark III was only worth $10k+ because it could, there was no competition when you’re the only 21mp camera when the rest of the market is full of 10-12mp

        Nowadays high megapixels are nothing new, announcing a $10k+ high megapixel 135 camera is a stupid move

        • Steve Griffin

          All good points but the camera market doesn’t always appear to be logical and I wouldn’t be surprised if one came in order to try and compete with the 456Z.

        • jvossphoto

          Your comparing apples to oranges. 645z has a total of 3 good modern lenses for it. With the 90 macro costing $5000. No LF lenses No TS lenses. Plus a D4X will be smaller lighter and light years better AF.

      • Me

        Because there’s only so much light that fits through the lens which is why larger formats exist. They could make a 54 MP DX camera but it would have no greater effective resolution. In fact, even 24 may be more than the format can resolve.

  • Global

    When DxO hits “100″ we can all buy that last camera and never visit a gear site again! :-D

    (Wives and pocket books — rejoice).

    • Michiel953

      That would be, judging current and past progress, and assuming the goalposts will not be moved while we’re waiting, uhhh… 2019?

    • El Aura

      I would bet a lot that the Pentax 645Z will reach the 100 mark.

    • MonkeySpanner

      I am not sure how they do the final score. But I don’t think 100 is a maximum.

  • Egami

    Nikon motion explained the higher exposure/brightness of D810 compared to other models in thier youtube vedios by the increased dynamic range of D810, but these numbers given by DoXMark are not justifying that, what is going on?

  • Saffron Blaze

    So, I have the best camera in the world. It should be for the price of it.

    • photoroto

      It is a miracle that a camera that takes pictures like the D810 does not cost $30,000+. Plain and simple. Better buy one before Nikon figures this out.

  • Nikon User

    Sony sensor technology is the best. Nikon is very thankful to Sony helping them to make their sensors. However, Sony knows the secret recipe of how Nikon’s sensors work, that makes Sony even stronger in the future.

    Need to say goodbye to Canon.

    • Justtakethepicture

      haha… funny.

    • MonkeySpanner

      I think Canon is aware they need a pretty strong showing this year in new sensor tech. Lets see what happens in the next few months.

    • jvossphoto

      I think Sony still has some catching up to do when it comes to tweeking and implementing their sensors. Nikon and even Pentax seems to be able to get more out of them than Sony does.

      • Damien

        Yeah, it’s crazy! Sony make the best sensors in general, yet their cameras don’t take the best photos…
        It’s the same with their smartphones. The same sensors in the LG G3/Oppo/Galaxy Note 3 take better pics than their higher resolution and supposedly better built 20MP sensor in their Z2. I think the camera technicians need to work closer with their imaging chip department.

  • vFunct

    Nikon needs 16-bit Raw file format at this point.. the sensor is past 14 bit Raw.

  • introvert

    where those canons at..
    haahahahahahhhaahahahahha.
    heehehehehehehehheeh

    ahhhhhhhhhh. deep breath and breath

  • Paddy

    Two nights ago, I sold my 800E, and immediately purchased an 810. No regrets. The shutter is noticeably quieter and smoother, and two of it’s other new features sealed the deal: electronic first shutter curtain, and a radically improved screen, esp. for critical manual focusing w/live view @ 100%. Wow. What an improvement. For any studio/still life/landscape shooters, these upgrades alone are really worth it. Nikon has (oddly) seemed to listen to the feedback, and made many subtle refinements to this most popular camera.
    I loved the 800E, and I have zero complaints with this latest version.

    • Egami

      Have u tried to use the live view in low light/night scene and to focus at 100%, how is it ? Has the bad and unusable interpolation in D800/E gone, if yes this will be the most important feature for me to upgrade from d810

  • Aldo

    minimal improvement… looks good on shelf… sold!

  • Halfwit pixel peeper

    hahaha….wow so big difference 14.8 vs 14.4….dxomark has been on holiday thats why no updates on their webpage for several weeks. I think I go for the D610 with 94points vs D810 97 points so small difference

  • G0nzo

    Can anybody explain me, how they score?

    (at this time, Server it down, just wanted to click on the ?)

  • pd2009

    Just got mine yesterday. Did some 50k Iso tests of my black dog for fun…..no color noise, amazing. Of course you need to shoot a stop or two higher in ISO compared to say D700 because of the pixel density / camera shake.

    • MonkeySpanner

      How is camera shake a worse problem with the D810?

      • Carleton Foxx

        Like everything with cameras, it’s all a big tradeoff.
        Imagine for a minute you’re using a camera with pixels 2 mm by 2mm and photographing a line that’s 1 mm wide. Even if the camera shakes back and forth .5 mm, that line is still going to stay inside the boundary of that 2mm box and it will be recorded as a nice sharp line. But shrink the pixels to 1 mm and now when you shake the camera that line is going to be partly recorded by adjacent pixels which will appear as blur. The smaller the pixels, the more they’ll record camera or subject motion.

        • MonkeySpanner

          Maybe I am thinking of this the wrong way, but if you view both images at the same size – the problem goes away. I am thinking the only time you would have a problem is if you do extreme crops – in which case the extra resolution would help you anyway.

          • Carleton Foxx

            Or lets say you buy two small new buckets to replace your one old big bucket. If you try to fill the bucket using your same old shaky technique you’re going to spill water all around the buckets. Same with photons… they’re going to expose the photo sites adjacent to the ones you want and give everything fuzzy edges.

            Plus cameras and lenses are so great now that they resolve everything—especially movement and shake.

            I learned how much eliminating all possible shake would improve my pix when I started using mirror lockup and a tripod with my D200. The difference between handheld and tightly locked down is at least two orders of beauty.And you can enlarge the photos a lot more before it gets objectionable.

  • Ndog

    What a waste of engineering effort. Nikon, you are a failure.

    • photoroto

      Devastating!

    • joe

      I agree. As a d800 owner the 810 is not a significant upgrade. I was gonna switch to Sony but what the hell. The a7s can give it some company. When Nikon really fucks up…. Which they might…. Then I will switch.

    • HF

      What kind of comment is that? No substance, just claims.

  • Click

    I compared D810 with D700 and D90 on DXOmark “measurements” . If I choose “Print” the D810 is about 1 STOP better than the other both (SNR 18%, Dynamic Range, Tonal Range, Color Sensitivity). But if I choose “Screen” the D700 beats the other ones. Why?

    • HF

      D810 has smaller pixels and shows more noise/pixel at higher ISO. But down sampled you increase S/N ratio and things look better.

      • Click

        Thank you for your explanation.

  • Egami

    I’m good at interpretation these results from DoXmark but i watched this video and got hesitated to buy D810, he seem so disappointed with it, what do u think guys
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwREnin_0vs

    • Egami

      opps i mean I’m not good at

      • mikeswitz

        That maybe the most annoying youtube video I have ever listened to.

        • Egami

          That is true but what about his analysis ? isn’t scary ?

          • mikeswitz

            No idea what he was trying to say… every time he seemed to come to some sort of conclusion he’d start snorting and coughing, the pointer never seemed to be highlighting what he was talking about and sometimes he was complaining that the D800/e and the 810 were very similar. Well, yeah.
            Wait for more reputable reviews, try the camera yourself, then decide. Certainly don’t make any decisions based on this guys Youtube video.

            • Egami

              I had to be patient to complete his annoying presentation, you are right, it is better to wait, but what worries me is that it one week now since the D810 is in the market and non of these reputable reviewers came up with their results except Doxmark, I’m afraid that is because they do not want to disappoint people or they are themselves still in shock

  • Rafa R

    a bit disappointing on the RAW small file, only 9 megapixels.. wow, we wanted small but perhaps something like 14 MP or so would have been nice, more like the DX crop mode RAW size, 9 is too few coming from a 36 MP camera I think

  • Trond Arild Ydersbond

    A bit amazed that the “new” sensor gives DxO results virtually identical to the old one in the common ISO range. No significant high ISO improvement may mean that they have got as far as practically possible with the current sensor design. I’ll wait and see how the sRAW works out for high ISO, but I’m very content with my D800, so I’m in no hurry to upgrade. The sRAW is a cookup unsuited for general use, but it would have been interesting to see how the pixel level (9 MP) sRAW scores would turn out compared to the Df. On native pixel level, the Df has almost 2 stops better color sensitivity than the D810 in the upper ISO range – that’s quite a lot, and color sensitivity is what matters most to me. Not too interested in full 36 MP resolution @6400 ISO.

    • El Aura

      I am amazed that you except a jpeg created by the camera by downsampling the result of the internal raw conversion (ie, sRAW) to behave any differently than a jpeg created by a raw converter by downsampling the result of the raw converter’s raw conversion.

      • Trond Arild Ydersbond

        If you look at the post here with comparisons including sRAW on the D4s, you would see that there are indications that sRAW may have some merit at high ISO. Furthermore, Nikon’s implementation seems to be quite similar to Canon’s, which has been considered useful for high ISO by many.

        I prefer looking at actual results, and frankly, I haven’t too much interest in opinions not based on experience or hard data. Trivially, sRAW is an inferior format for general use, but that does not imply that there can’t be corner cases where it may have some merit. And even if it is possible to achieve the same results manually, it may be a significant practical improvement if sRAW makes it easier.

        Assumptions of equivalence necessarily depend on whether ordinary RAW truly reflects all information that is accessible at exposure time. I’m not so sure about that either.

  • Carleton Foxx

    I’ve used this camera for a week now, and I would have to say that whether or not the image quality is better is immaterial because that depends so much on lenses, lighting, and technique. But this camera has a better user experience than the older models. The focusing is really nice, the shutter sound is 100 percent better, even the jpegs out of the camera are beautiful. The whole thing just feels a little better—faster, smoother. So if one of your bodies is getting long in the tooth it’s a great upgrade.

    • Michiel953

      A little better. My impression as well after trying it out twice with two different primes. AF appears to be reliable without the fine tuning hassle, viewfinder, grip, shutter action. All noticeable improvements, though not so impressive that they make the D800/E a bad camera.

      Of course.

      • Carleton Foxx

        Agreed. I drowned my last body, so that’s why I went for the D810. But if you’re one of those people who shoots 10,000 or 20,000 images a month, you could be coming up on replacement time for your D800…. I wish I could do the arithmetic on the optimal time to replace a camera—when resale is still reasonable and after the new cams have dropped a little.

  • Carleton Foxx

    And why is everyone hating on sRaw? Has anyone used it extensively? Nikon’s management may be slow, but i think we can agree that they still have awesome engineers…

    • El Aura

      Why does everyone ‘hate’ scene modes? Has anyone [of those 'hating' them] used them extensively?

      Sometimes it is possible just from the description of a feature to know that one won’t use it, that it is effectively a useless feature. It is not rocket science to figure out that a 12-bit raw has more bit-depth than a 11-bit jpeg (by the nature of 12 being a higher number than 11 and the fact that if you compress and stretch a 12-bit image data, aka raw conversion, the result, even if saved as 12-bit, will have less bit depth in the compressed zone.

      • Carleton Foxx

        No, it’s not rocket science. It’s imaging science. And how many of us really know enough about that discipline to be able to criticize something without using it? Maybe someone with a master’s or PhD in computational imaging can get a sensor to do something that we couldn’t even begin to imagine because we’re not in the industry.
        Whatever happened to respect for science.

  • jvossphoto

    Not sure how many of you follow Ming Thein’s blog but he said just the new mirror shutter mechanism and the improved grip was enough for him to upgrade from the D800E to the D810. http://blog.mingthein.com/

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