Nikon D850 DxOMark sensor review: the first DSLR to hit 100 points


DxOMark published their sensor review for the Nikon D850 and as I already predicted, the D850 is the first DSLR camera to hit 100 points (click for larger view):

"The introduction of the first BSI sensor in a full-frame Nikon DSLR with a super-high 45.7Mp resolution puts the Nikon D850’s image quality on par with, and often better than, medium-format cameras. The first DSLR to hit 100 points — rather apt for Nikon’s hundredth anniversary year — puts the Nikon D850 in a class of its own for image quality. At base ISO, it’s unrivaled for color in the DSLR class, and its headline dynamic range score is outstanding, too. Against the competitor high-resolution options from Sony and Canon, the D850 offers either better or close to comparable image quality throughout the ISO range. Although its headline ISO score doesn’t quite achieve the same lofty heights overall, it’s still a very capable performer at high ISO sensitivities, too. So if you’re looking for the best image quality at low ISOs, at significantly less cost than a digital medium-format camera, the Nikon D850 looks like the camera you’ve been waiting for."

Comparisons of the D850 with other cameras:


Here is a list of the top rated cameras:


Here are the best rated Nikon full frame cameras:


Nikon vs. Sony at DxoMark:


Nikon vs. Canon at DxOMark:


Nikon D850 portrait (color depth):




Nikon D850 landscape (dynamic range):


Nikon D850 sports (low-light ISO):


Via DxOMark


Check D850 availability: B&H | Adorama | Amazon | BuyDig | BestBuy | Cameta Camera | Focus Camera | eBay | WEX | Jessops

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  • Whoa, that portrait score of 26.4 surprises me…
    Given the fast read of the sensor, I assumed the CFA would be less robust ( color S/N ratio ) to accomodate the fps boost. But Nikon has done something very special indeed.

    • Raymond Garcia

      “Now can Nikon put this into a smaller full frame mirrorless body, because that’s what I really want”…………..most of us will pick the D850 any day vs a7r-ii even with bigger body/weight…..It is a tool and as a tool there is NONE DSLR/MIRROLESS at FF that can match its performance in so many segments

      • Raymond, I’ll be using both.

        • Raymond Garcia

          Based on 30lb weight for Nikon and just 5lbs for Sony …..That lenses are pretty big!!!! and fast!!! compared to Sony……..because between just the bodies of d850 and a7r-ii there is less than 1 pound, so the other 24lbs extra for the D850 are just lenses………..Right??

          • Mostly.

            • Raymond Garcia

              That’s what I thought, but you can really eliminate 5 pounds of your total weight if you take out the a7r-ii since there is not a single segment in which the a7r-ii outperform the D850……….

            • Raymond, you should really shoot with one sometime. It’s ok to like, utilize, and own more than one brand. You’ll see the strengths and shortcomings of both. Both are needed for what I do…

            • I would really love to own a mirrorless, Im going to hold out to see what Nikon are going to bring, but I do love the idea of having both,

            • My real question for the forthcoming mirrorless Nikon is what lenses will it launch with.

        • Thom Hogan

          Something is wrong with that, you’re not comparing apples to apples.

          The Nikon D850 with the trio of f/2.8 lenses is 154 ounces (4384g).
          The Sony A7rII with the trio of f/4 lenses is 85 ounces (2413g).

          • Never said I was.

          • Raymond Garcia

            Tom, this was my point. Matt started with 30lbs D850 Kit vs 5lbs a7r-ii Kit, in order to have that big difference in weight(since D850 vs a7r-ii are less than a pound diff) the rest of the 25 pounds difference have to be the lenses, and in order for those lenses that have those differences it has to be because Nikon are fast lenses(1.8f/2.8f) vs 4f, like you stated above.

            • Thom Hogan

              My point is that it’s more than just subbing f/4 mirrorless lenses for f/2.8 DSLR lenses. When you do that, the A7rII kit is just over half the weight of a D850 kit, not 1/6th the weight that Matt implies.

              We can’t assess Matt’s approach based upon the data he’s provided. There’s something else he’s not telling us.

            • Raymond Garcia

              I see your point, Matt point only make sense if Sony has three lenses and Nikon like 6 lenses. But another point, Big point, is how you express your points(Matt) 5lbs vs 30lbs………this will make people to automatic think that there is a huge weight difference between these two cameras/kits just to propel one vs the other, an honest point will have been if Matt would have tell us the whole story, like how many lenses?, how fast are those lenses?, are they prime or sS? and like I said, if Matt is so concerned about weight, why now eliminate the a7r-ii and save those 5 extra pounds, because Thom please correct me if I am wrong, is there are one area in which the a7r-ii outperform the D850(e.g.Landscape/Sport/Portrait), because if there are none, then there is no point of adding the a7r-ii if what he wants is to save weight.

            • Lladnar

              People can think what they want, he never said anything about them being equivalent systems, or the weight difference making one better than the other. I took from it that he had a much broader selection of lenses for Nikon and therefore his work most likely favored using that system. If people are going to infer from and be persuaded by a comment in a blog then there exists a much bigger problem. Too many trigger happies here just waiting to argue.

            • Raymond Garcia

              yes, but when you put the weight as a factor:

              “Now can Nikon put this into a smaller full frame mirrorless body with competitive PDAF, because that’s what I really want”. and

              “Raymond, I’ll be using both.

              My 30lb f/2.8 Nikon D850 kit, and, my 5lb f/4 Sony A7RII kit.” Well, Thom and me, took it the other way, if you are going to compare compare apples to apples, and if you are going to bring the weight issues from 30lbs vs 5lbs is that an advantage?, if so how?………Just because your selection is different you are not making a good comparisson

            • Sorry to be so vague.

              I have my main Nikon “Kitchen Sink” large fstop tilopa travel pack that has several Nikon lenses, multiple 165mm filters, RRS rails, adapters, etc etc.

              I now have a Sony setup with a A7R2 some f/4 Zeiss lenses.

              I’m really diggin the lighter setup for mobility. It took me a week to learn the Sony handling/menu, but I’m fairy good at it now.

              As I mentioned below to Raymond, he really outta try a couple brands. Each has their strength. I have some grueling hikes coming in a week where I’ll be physically tested in the hot tropics, and the last thing I want is my heavy Nikon DSLR and glass. 90% of the shots will be 35mm or wider. I also need 4K recording as well. The Sony system is going to be perfect for this.

              Each setup will have it’s ideal purpose. Will I use the Sony in sub zero weather with gloves on. No way.

            • Raymond Garcia

              “Each setup will have it’s ideal purpose. Will I use the Sony in sub zero weather with gloves on. No way” that, I agree with you……….but why would you want the Nikon to bring a d850 mirrorless with the same issues of ergonomics like you have with the Sony………At one point you have to accept both formats, one compact/video/just one lens, the other Ergonomics/resolution/High DR/build like a tank/better video(af suck, but better video)/faster fps/heavy. I am glad that what I do I don’t need to have several brands/formats, just one that kill it

            • Unless you’ve tried both, you won’t understand IMO. I use to shoot with Hasselblad and Nikon at the same time. FWIW, my Hassy pack was even heavier than my current Nikon Pack. ( H3D-39, 28mm, 55-110mm, 80mm, 120mm ). And, I use to worry about having $60,000 on my back, in my rental car, etc… My shooting needs ( clients as well as licensing ) allowed me to transition to 35mm DSLR. I don’t miss hauling around MF. I’ve gone back and forth between Nikon and Canon over the years. Once again, mirrorless has created another transition for me. My pack can be lighter and nimble. I love it. You should try shooting with a variety. It will give you a larger perspective on UX, technology, and handling. Each has their own +/-

              Unless you’ve tried multiple brands and models, it’s impossible to know if “just one that kill it”. I think you’ll find, there isn’t one single camera or brand that is the best at everything and all conditions – situations.

            • Raymond Garcia

              Matt, it is very simple, at this point in time there is not a single camera that can do everything above anybody else, but the ONLY CAMERA in the market right now that can do everything with a good results is the D850. If you don’t agree with me it is fine, but at least answer this points to see if it is true D850 vs 7ar-ii:
              1-)Ergonomics: Advantage D850
              2-)Portraits: Advantage D850
              3-)Landscape: Advantage D850
              4-)Fps: Advantage D850
              5-)Resolution: Advantage D850
              6-)Heating issues: Advantage D850
              7-)Battery life: Advantage D850
              8-)Build quality: Advantage D850
              9-)Lens selection: Advantage D850
              10-)Price: Advantage a7r-ii
              11-)Weight: Advantage a7r-ii
              12-)IBIS: Advantage a7r-ii(good for video)
              13-)Picture AF: Advantage D850
              14-)Video AF: Advantage a7r-ii
              15-)Full 4K: Advantage D850
              Can you tell me that I am wrong in one of those 15 points? or if some of those points are based on taste?

            • Raymond Garcia

              I forgot another point SD cards reads: Advantage D850

            • sickheadache

              That Sony camera is 100% Dated.

            • Richard Hart

              I am still happy with my d800s and they are even older!

            • sickheadache

              I think u told me ur address is 1313 Mockingbird LN..I will be around Monday to deliver the truth to u.

            • Richard Hart

              Know the address well do you?

            • Richard Hart

              Sony is better at video as it has different codecs and probably frame rates. No h264 bollox.

              You don’t have to agree with Matt Anderson. You are all confusing the meaning of opinion. If he wants to spend money on having more than one kit and uses it in different ways, that is fine. If you read his comments, you will realize he does t need to be criticized for thinking differently to all the trolls on here.

              Who here has a go pro and uses it at the beach instead of their d850? But the d850 is better right?

              I had a sony a6000 (which was stolen) decided to go for aps as the lenses were smaller – otherwise there is little point. Lenses really let the camera down. Also dynamic range was poor. But I still used it for professional work in certain circumstances.

              An a7r2 with pro full frame lenses does not weigh much less than Nikon gear. Not enough to make it worth spending $10k on. Actually that new 12-24mm is a lot lighter…

            • Richard A J

              Matt, I think the problem people are having with your posts is that you made it sound like you’re choosing between a Nikon rig that weighs 30lb, and a Sony rig that weighs 5lb based on the weight. Of course, that’s impossible, because a 5lb Sony rig can’t come close to matching what you can do with a 30lb Nikon rig. Then you said that you mostly shoot wider than 35mm, which makes one wonder which Nikon lenses you’re using to get the Nikon’s weight up to 30lb, because there’s no such thing as a Nikon lens that weighs 6x as much as a comparable Sony lens.
              In short, your post comes over a simple trolling, because the comparison is absurd. If you said that you were using a Nikon 600mm f/4E vs. a Sony 35mm f/1.4, the weight issue would at least make some sense, but then you wouldn’t even be comparing those two lenses because they so incredibly different.
              So no, you don’t choose between a 5lb Sony rig and a 30lb Nikon rig. Ever. If you’re using the Sony for wide angle work, and the Nikon for extreme telephoto work, then just say so. Don’t try to make it sound like the two rigs are comparable.

          • Roland Meier

            And as this the same sensor size, you need to match aperture / focal length. The weight obsession is getting ridiculous. The broader (longer) the focal length range is, the more this will get equalised. Short of body v body weight, this is a question of capability, not weight as far as the system is concerned.

            Nikon FF (inc 600 5kg/ and Fuji x shooter – you need to go below 35mm sensor size to enjoy system v body-level reduction in bulk / weight.

          • SpecialMan

            Funny how you just can’t escape the laws of physics; you want to double the max f/stop you have to accept more than double the weight.

        • Eshel Art Photography

          First you might missed the new but Sony G Master lenses 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm 2.8 are as heavy as Nikon’s or Canon’s so pointing weight as advantage is pointless, weight is always in the lenses and a heavy body to balance them is not a disadvantage and as a Sony user I can tell you the auto focus system on the D850 blows away anything that Sony has except maybe the A9, definitely the A7RII.

        • how much can a sony shoot in a single battery again? agains nikons battery?

    • akkual

      From what I have tested D850, it really separates itself in color reproduction from others. Very close to the smoothness of current medium formats. Another one is the high pixel count allows far better detail restoring and nibbling in post processing on high ISOs. The end results are better than from my D750, although D750 is better in 1:1 before the pp. Yet, I must say I personally consider swapping to Fuji GFX after their recent price campaing (as I no longer shoot events). There’s just no replacement for displacement (or sensor area in this case).

    • Jacob Smith

      Nikon will have PDAF in their cameras before Canon puts 4K in theirs.

      • Nikkor300f4VR

        Amen! 🙂

      • AlexG

        I admire your optimism. I cannot wait for it!

    • they are new to the full frame mirrorless so will see. dont get your hopes up though as it will be there first time and will barely learn. but as you can see on the dslr side, they make progress with image quality as they go. my only hope is that i hope it can adapt my fx lenses to the mirrorless cameras.

    • Zos Xavius

      People have long suspected sony of using weaker CFAs on their sensors than previous designs to cook the SNR slightly, but I honestly see no evidence of this. If true the bit depth would be measurably less where Sony sensors have steadily increased that figure.

  • Pablo And-Jennifer Gabetta

    Yes, yes, what a glorious day.

    • Pablo And-Jennifer Gabetta

      ISO is not as good as D800?

      • neonspark

        bask in the Dynamic Range

      • It is. Just not in DXO ratings. And that nicer chroma noise helps a lot.

        • Todd Davis

          yeah DXO ISO scores are nonsensical and should be ignored… download RAW samples of the Sony A9 and the Nikon D5 from DPReview and pixel peep for yourself… the D5 high ISO is much cleaner than the A9… yet the A9 ISO score is almost 1000 higher than the D5… its clearly an inaccurate test

          • Ben Brayev

            exactly. dxomark means nothing.

  • Ralf

    How does their scale work anyway, did the D850 hit the design limit of the scale or does the scale go beyond 100?

    • Nyarlathotep

      Magic, sorcery and maybe some tarot cards. dXo is quite opaque as to how they come up with their overall score numbers. I wouldn’t read much into it.

    • Pablo And-Jennifer Gabetta

      I believe RED dxomarks are above 100.

    • But the transfer is quite fast for 2 mb jpegs.

  • Fly Moon

    I am glad my D850 got the full mark 🙂

    • Me too. I never got full marks in exams. At least my camera did.

      • A. F.O.

        🙂

      • Mehdi R

        lol

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      Bear in mind their is no ceiling for this score.. This just an imaginative number..
      Today 100, next year 1xx..

      • Fly Moon

        Sure. I will get the one 1xx too

  • Wait, isn’t the D850 supposed to have better high ISO performance than the D810?

  • vvla

    Isn’t this just a FF version of the sensor in the D500? Doesn’t DXO just measure sensor performance?…confused.

    • tomskyphoto

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/67e7e876a167b12fda9f862e406670e21b9d24e1586ba47a63c5c1ece1e6a08e.png

      Looks pretty close to me; with the D850 pushed down to a lower base ISO and thus performing marginally worse at higher ISO. Note that sensor performance can only be directly compared when limiting a bigger sensor to a readout area that’s just as big as the smaller sensor; hence the comparison with the D850 in DX mode here. So yes, it actually might be an upscaled Sony IMX321 (D500) design.

      It hasn’t been confirmed yet who actually manufactures the sensor – Nikon can claim having designed the sensor themselves but they ultimately have to go by their contracted fabs technological capabilities as they have no means at all to make the sensors in house like Canon – but everything from the sensors physical appearance to performance charts just cries Sony.

      But eventually Techinsight aka former Chipworks will find out.

      • neonspark

        D500 sensor isn’t even BSI…

        • Thom Hogan

          As I’ve written many times, BSI at these sensor sizes isn’t likely to gain you something measurable. Even at 1″ sensors the difference was only a third of a stop. The reason why Nikon went BSI is to put more electronics on the chip to move that data off fast.

          • Dmitry Anisimov

            with A7R2 vs. A7R the difference is SAME third of a stop.
            (??because designers of BSI sensors make compromises to keep manufacturing costs low that decrease getting better SNR — that is, thicker wiring which allows faster readout — all ADCs are outside of imaging area and it’s irrevelant BSI or not)

            The question was about D850 sensor an upscaled variant of D500. Even if the performance is similar, BSI rules out this possibility.

            • Thom Hogan

              No, the A7r and A7rII use different sensels to start with. You can’t really compare them and say that BSI gained them a third of a stop.

              As for your contention on ADCs, it’s not that clear cut. The question is whether your sensor is, at base, quantum noise limited or read noise limited. Quite a few factors enter into play, BSI being only one of them.

            • Dmitry Anisimov

              if a7r2 because of better sensels, why’d they don’t use them in a FSI sensor?
              which add-on circuitry D850 has to speed up readout? It has no intermediate RAM like A9.

            • Thom Hogan

              Your first question doesn’t make any sense to me. The A7r (and D800/D810) use pretty old Exmor tech. The A7rII was the start of a lot of changes coming into Exmor.

              But the reason why you aren’t seeing FSI progress is exactly the reason why the D850 is BSI: more area for electronics, with no penalty for light.

            • Dmitry Anisimov

              I mean, D850 didn’t that need more fps, that’s what D5 was in Nikon’s lineup.
              Which is that electronics that allows D850 to have more fps?

              If FSI cheaper to make they can continue making it

        • tomskyphoto

          BSI is a mere mechanical design decision in the sensor build and seems to have little effect from APS-C upwards when it comes to IQ/DR, ISO performance and noise. CMOS is still CMOS.

        • Shutterbug

          The BSI is for readout speed not noise or DR. The sensor is so large that BSI doesn’t help out much with the circuitry.

      • Pablo And-Jennifer Gabetta

        Made by TowerJazz.

        • tomskyphoto

          No.

        • we don’t know that

          • A. F.O.

            Hi, Peter
            did you a get a D850 for yourself?
            🙂 even if this is a DXOmark_thing we should all be glad for the 100 points in the 100th of Nikon.

            • yes, got it with the second batch from B&H… took a week to get to me because I did not select overnight shipment… have not used it much… took only like 300 shots in a local park, but Iike everything I see 🙂

            • A. F.O.

              just saw it! looks very cool
              very wet thing!
              🙂
              (only 300!?); when I got my D7200 I took some 5000 in the first week or soo….)

      • MB

        You do realize that most “sensor” companies like former Aptina, CMOSIS, Omnivision, Forza etc are also fabless …

        • tomskyphoto

          Which puts them in the same bind as Nikon and has probably also contributed to the widespread disappearance of their products from the photographic and video gear market.

          • MB

            If we follow your “logic” then Apple is doomed because they do not make a single chip and are outsourcing complete iPhone production…

            • tomskyphoto

              Mark my words – the D850’s sensor is a Sony design closely related to both the A7RII’s sensor and the IMX321 (D500 sensor).

              Why should Nikon waste much more money and development time to get from someone else what their long standing technology partner Sony Semiconductor can more or less deliver off the shelf in 2016/2017?

            • because they don’t want to depend on Sony?

            • tomskyphoto

              IMO that whole Nikon et al. vs. Sony thing has mostly been made up by Western observers and commentators who don’t really understand the internal workings of Japanese society and culture and rather project their own ideas and ideology. And that rabid fanboy antagonism also seems to be something typical for discussions dominated by Westerners.

              Sony Semiconductor will most likely not cut its ties with Nikon just because Sony’s imaging division has decided to become a little bit more active during the past years. Something like that would be very bad style from a Japanese point of view and tarnish one’s reputation for a very long time to come. Also with uninvolved third parties.

            • PhilK

              I doubt anyone is realistically claiming that Sony will “cut ties” to Nikon – Nikon is a very large and important customer.

              However that does not mean that Sony is incapable of prioritizing its own imaging division when it comes to access to their latest sensor tech, either.

              And even if Sony maintains absolutely scrupulous strategic separation between Sony Semiconductor and Sony Imaging and practices absolutely no internal favoritism at all, the fact remains that if Nikon is dependent on standard off-the-shelf parts for the single most critical part of their cameras, they will doom themselves to “second class” status in the camera market forever.

              One way or another, Nikon needs to have unique and superior tech if they hope to remain a top camera company. There are a few different ways to achieve that, but none of them are trivial. Buying standard off-the-shelf sensors from the largest maker is not one of them.

    • James R Mercer

      No, it’s an entirely new sensor, designed directly by Nikon. It has no predecessor in the Nikon line.

    • BG

      The comparisons are made normalized to a common output format. So double the sensor area (even if at the same quality per pixel) will translate e.g. into better high-ISO ratings.

      • Zos Xavius

        Its the only comparison that is fair IMO.

        IQ is meaningless until you go to print. Just about anything looks decent at facebook resolution these days.

    • Buy that man a beer !
      Any preliminary info or photos or names on the upcoming Mirrorless Full frame camera ? Inquiring minds want to know …

      • nothing reliable to report – I may do a recap post next week with some speculations, but still no reliable info

        • Eric Calabros

          Unreliable info means its coming from people who you don’t trust or there are words from several sources that contradict each other?

          • Allan

            “No reliable” and “nothing reliable” have a different meaning than “unreliable”.

            🙂

          • it’s actually both – conflicting info from some good sources and lack of any info from other good sources

    • Allan

      “Toot, Toot” – Peter.

      Well done, Peter.

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      LoL!

    • Well, your predictions always come true!

      • not always, but most of there times 🙂

    • A. F.O.

      eheheh just a rumor???…..
      did you knew D850 would get those 100?

      • no, just a guess based on the D850 results I saw 🙂

      • Fly Moon

        That doesn’t qualify a s a rumor. As Peter said, it’s just a guess!

        • Yes, just a guess after playing with my D850 and seeing all the info online.

          • Fly Moon

            I LOVE mine. Going to shoot NYC skyline from New Jersey tomorrow:-)

    • This should become the featured comment of the post.

  • Jacob Smith

    Come on you Sony fanboys this won’t be complete until you chime in with your BS and excuses.

    • oh, they will, just wait…

      • Raymond Garcia

        Just want to hear what Jason Lenier is going to say about this(or he wont say anything at all)

        • My guess is that he will blame it on DxOMark… anyway, I don’t really care what he has to say…

        • Fly Moon

          “Jason Lenier”
          Who’s that?

          • Jacob Smith

            First off its spelled Lanier and if you want to know how he got famous look for a Youtube video titled “10 Reasons Why a Professional Photographer Left Nikon and started shooting with Sony.” I watched his videos in the beginning because they were interesting but lately he seems to be really full of himself. He says its not because he is egotistical but because he’s confident. You can judge for yourself. Anyway there was a video he put some time ago where he mentions that he does not cross shops other brands and since he became a Sony Artisan of Imagery he doesn’t cover other makes only Sony. Since he use to be a Nikon shooter its going to be interesting to see what he does when Nikon releases their mirrorless FF camera.

            • I am not familiar with all the details in that particular case, but several photographers “switched” to Sony (and Fuji) because there were not offered anything from Nikon or were offered something only from Sony (or Fuji)… Of course many don’t disclose that in their YouTube videos and blog posts. It’s a all business after all and you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Remember Bob Krist? He is now with Sony too…. I’ve said it many times before – Sony marketing is genius.

            • Fly Moon

              Who has time for all those losers on YouTube? I’ll take your word and just ignore him!

    • Raymond Garcia

      And that is not all………….Do you remember the a9??…..Nobody is talking about this camera anymore and it is just like 3 months older that the D850

      • Nikkor300f4VR

        Sorry, what.. A9..? Soo old tech..
        Nodody use that noisy crap..

      • Nobody is talking about it because nobody bought this camera (besides a few bloggers that got a free loaner from Sony to promote it). Yes, the tech is great, but who will actually spend the cash to buy it?
        FYI: the Sony a9 was in stock everywhere on the day it was released:
        https://photorumors.com/2017/05/25/sony-a9-camera-in-stock-everywhere/

        • Raymond Garcia

          Money talk, the a9 view as a business point of view(beside publicity) is a failure, do you think Sony is coming with a9r or a9s very soon?. In a serious note the issue with the a9 was that is was pitched against the d5 and 1dxm-ii, for sport, without lenses and the build-like-a-tank it can not compete against those two

          • Sony sold so many a7 cameras because they were the first in their respective categories. Once the next iterations comes out, we cannot expect the same success becuase not all a7 owner will upgrade. It’s easy to score when you are the first and the only player, but the competition will catch up to you… and I am not taking only about Nikon: https://photorumors.com/2017/10/05/updates-on-the-rumored-canon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera/

            • Eric Calabros

              That’s why Nikon should concentrate on affordable DX mirrorless.

            • Allan

              Maybe that’s why we haven’t seen many DX SLR lenses. Is the R&D being done for lenses optimized for DX mirrorless?

            • A. F.O.

              a D610 mirroless?
              or
              a D7500 mirroless?

        • tomskyphoto

          Especially as the A9 once again seems to be that incredible combination of bleeding edge technological achievement and absolutely incomprehensible cheesy cost and corner cutting that only Sony can deliver in a single package.

          • Spy Black

            They threw the overheating in for free however. A true Sony through and through.

        • jmb2560

          Peter, notwithstanding the above regarding A9’s value and quality, you can’t really blame a manufacturer for having an effective supply-chain BTW, I don’t own any Sony gear, so don’t qualify as a “Sony fan boy” 😉

          • I don’t agree because the a7 models were sold out for months and you could not find them in stores – just like the D850. I think it’s a matter of demand, not supply chain.

            • jmb2560

              You did not get my point. Oh well…

            • thundrrd

              If he didn’t get your point, it must not have been a clear point that you made because I understood your comment the same as Peter did.
              Try being more clear when trying to make a point.

            • jmb2560

              ok, you have a point. Let me clarify:
              Irrespective of what we think of the a9, and irrespective of what happen in the past regarding the a7, the fact that “a” product is available from every store does not justify to blame the manufacturer. Would you blame Nikon if the 850 was readily available from every store or would you instead say “they have learned from the mistake they made when they launch the D800 and got it right this time”?

            • thundrrd

              Now that was a clear point.

        • A. F.O.

          Sony will drop the A9 price by christmas
          say 2299 USD
          🙂
          inventory clean up.

          • yes, getting ready for the next version – it has been 6 months already, time to refresh 🙂

        • Mr B

          Was passing through Singapore airport on Wednesday and even the electronics store there (which is small and a generalist outfit selling all sorts and usually has nothing of interest photographically speaking) had an A9 on display and in stock. Surprised me.

    • ZoetMB

      It’s fine to love the camera and brand that one buys, but if you go to sites that publish the work of photographers, you’ll find amazing work by photographers who use all sorts of brands and models and you’ll also find technically awful images from all brands and models. I also find it hard to believe that there’s all that much difference between a “96” and a “100” in the Dx0 scores.

      Personally, I alternate between thinking I desperately need to buy the D850 and looking at my D800 images and then thinking that I don’t. While smartphones don’t do well with low light photography or movement, every once in a while I see a photo out of a smartphone that’s so good, I wonder what I’m doing walking around with a $12K kit that weights what feels like 50 pounds (it’s probably only 25).

      It’s a little unfair to compare the brand new D850 to the second generation Sony A7 line, which was launched two years ago. Let’s see what the third generation A7’s are like. And you know what? I hope they are better than the D850 because that will push Nikon to do even better the next time around and/or give Nikon a higher target for their mirrorless.

      • Allan

        Excellent comments.

      • Jacob Smith

        Valid points. But you could also do a comparison with the new A9 and the D850 scored higher. Don’t get me wrong I don’t take DxO scores seriously I’m more of the mindset about actually going out and actually shooting something. Despite all of the crap I see and here from the typical Sony fanboys I see this as an indication of what is to come from Nikon.

  • Nuke Dchat

    Why the DSLR thing? When I look at their camera sensor ratings, it looks like the best sensor they have ever rated. Am I missing something?

  • Can’t wait to see this in that fanboyishest rumors site under their usual “Competition rumors”…

    (Although I don’t value too much DxO…)

    • LOL 🙂 you know it’s coming…

    • James R Mercer

      I expected this score from DXO; waiting to see what Senscore shows us. Frankly – I expect this sensor to perform as well with Senscore as with DXO.

  • Kriss_De_Valnor

    This is a massive morale boost for Nikon.

    Now they do need to introduce a serious mirrorless camera system. Nikon does not want to end up like Nokia did…

    • Allan

      Unfortunately, bringing out only several high-end stellar products (D5, D500, D850) in a shrinking market might not be enough to comfortably sustain an innovative company.

      • Piooof

        Getting the largest market share of the only segment which is not shrinking is rather a good strategy to survive (I’m not saying they’re already there). Now, to do more than survive I agree they need to cater for the needs of the laypeople. Logically that’s the next step.

      • Jacob Smith

        Its funny how often people assume that everybody will automatically upgrade when the latest and the greatest gear is released. Yes Nikon is producing new DSLRs in a shrinking market but the mirrorless market is also shrinking. You can thank the new smart phones for that. Unlike Sony or the other mirrorless companies Nikon has a huge base of DSLR users and when Nikon does release their mirrorless cameras they have to make sure that their current base will be able to use their equipment with the new mirrorless cameras. If they rushed a FF mirrorless to market with a new ecosystem its the best way to piss off their base and have then switch over to Sony.

        • Allan

          The compact camera market is rapidly disappearing. Nikon cancelled high-end DL compacts.

          How big is each of the DX and FX markets? Are they both shrinking?

          • ZoetMB

            Point and shoots are up 16% year to date. We don’t know the size of the DX and FX markets because CIPA doesn’t break out those numbers. However we do know the number of lenses shipped for 35mm and for smaller than 35mm and that’s 27.2% are for 35mm (FX) (year to date).

            • Allan

              I don’t understand your last sentence.
              Thanks.

            • ZoetMB

              CIPA breaks down lens shipments into lenses for “35mm” cameras and lenses for “smaller than 35mm” cameras. 27.2% of the shipments are for 35mm lenses (FX and equivalent) and 72.8% are for smaller lenses (DX and equivalent and smaller).

            • Allan

              Thanks.
              Are lens shipments in the last 2 years, increasing or decreasing?

            • ZoetMB

              Year to date, 35mm lenses are down 4%, smaller than 35 is up 9%. Overall up 5%. Full year 2016 vs. 2015 was down 7% for 35mm and down 13% for smaller than 35, overall down 11%. Full year 2015 vs. 2014 was overall down 6%. 2014 vs. 2013 was down 14%. 2013 vs. 2012 was down 12%. 2012 vs. 2011 was up 17%.

        • ZoetMB

          That’s not quite correct. Year to date, DSLR shipments are down 3% and mirrorless shipments are up 51%, although DSLRs still outsell mirrorless 1.88 to 1. And surprisingly, point-and-shoots are up 16%. As successful as the D850 seems to be, I don’t think Nikon is going to ship enough by the end of this calendar year to make a big difference in the numbers.

          • Jacob Smith

            The camera market overall has been in a decline including mirrorless and this is mostly due to the smartphones. The one thing I keep seeing is that everybody keeps concentrating on DSLR for Nikon despite the fact that there were recent articles published where the people in charge of Nikon have commented that there are mirrorless cameras from Nikon. The D850 is now but the future will be the Nikon FF mirrorless cameras.

        • Kriss_De_Valnor

          There are many people like me – i just don’t want another big DSLR and i don’t want Sony too. I have 3000GBP underneath my bed and i’m waiting for sensible Nikon mirrorless system. I will wait till the next summer. Otherwise i will grab secondhand Leica M9 with 50mm Zeiss. It will be very sad to abandon Nikon.

          • Spy Black

            “I have 3000GBP underneath my bed…”

            …and we know where you live…

      • But it will help the company image for the lower end products.

  • SGG

    All great, but unfortunately too far behind A7RII in high ISO results. Sony from other side suffers with Landscape DR (but that’s only because Nikon has ISO 64). Not wanting to be a bad prophet but I think A7RIII will surpass it.

    • and since we talking about non-existing cameras, I can bet the D860 will surpass the A7RIII…

      • Jacob Smith

        ding ding ding… we have the first fanboy chime in.

      • SGG

        The Admin just said D860 is coming…. LOL Jokes on a side, do you find a bit confusing that huge high ISO (sports) score difference? It’s not few percent – it’s 30% difference in almost equal Mpx cameras.

        • Raymond Garcia

          do you really believe that the a7r-ii can beat the D850 in:
          1-)Sport
          2-)Landscape
          3-)Portraits
          And don’t make me start with over-heating/ergonomics/build quality/

          • you forgot the lenses… and the battery life and… so much more…

          • Thom Hogan

            In the hands of most users, yes.

            Wait, Thom said what?

            Look, at the level sensors currently are at—and have been for several years—we can pick out very small differences between them that don’t show up in practical use.

            What does show up in practical use for many of the people buying these cameras is “everything stabilized.” Plus more accurate single servo, face/eye detected focus. Those two things alone give a lot of Sony users better image data than they got from their DSLRs. I see it every day in my in box.

            Now, for the level of shooting I do, which would I rather have? The D850, for sure.

            • Allan

              It would be interesting to see your camera recommendations for different types of photographers buying a camera today.

            • Raymond Garcia

              Thom, I have a very important question to ask you. I am sitting in some cash, but I am worry of spending it until Nikon tell us what will happen to the “F” mount lenses, two, three or 5 years from now? Will the “F” lenses work perfectly with Nikon expected Mirrorless? and what is going to happen to DSRL?…….Btw, I said: “one important question”,but it is more than that

            • Thom Hogan

              Simple answer: if Nikon doesn’t respect the F mount legacy, Nikon won’t be sitting on some cash real soon ;~). In other words, they’d be fools not to have near perfect F-mount compatibility into the future models, whatever type of camera they are.

              DSLRs aren’t likely to go away soon. But they’re being marginalized at the bottom end fairly rapidly. The real issue isn’t what happens with FX, it’s what happens with compact cameras up through DX. That Nikon hasn’t protected DX and went for lame updates on three models tells me they either think that DX will be mirrorless in the future, or they don’t know what they’re doing.

            • Adam Brown

              1 recent rumor was that they would use a SLT mirror adapter on mirrorless — that’s not true compatibility. It’s strapping a big heavy dSLR focus system on the front of a mirrorless camera, and thereby getting rid of of many of the advantages of mirrorless.

              But looking at all the various rumors and current Nikon products, it tells me that they haven’t yet been able to engineer near perfect f-mount compatibility.

              The evidence:
              1– the D850 made huge advances in live view: electronic shutter, focus peaking, etc. If they had a good on-sensor f-mount focus system, it would have been totally natural to put it on the D850. We know Canon can do mirrorless EF whenever they are ready — as the 5d4 and 6d are already capable of “mirrorless” EF focus.

              2– Nikon was an early pioneer of on-sensor PDAF in the 1-series. Similar to the first point, why hasn’t it made it into any other Nikon cameras???
              This tells me they haven’t been able to upscale it. Maybe it’s not accurate enough for larger sensors (and thereby more narrow DOF).

              3– rumors of a new mount?? At this point in the game, if the mirrorless could be perfectly compatible with F-mount, why bother with a new mount??
              As Canon has achieved perfect compatibility, they seem to have stopped developing any new mirrorless lenses…
              except for ultrawide, the lenses are the same size. What’s the point of developing a new 24-70/2.8… if it’s the same size and quality as the old 24-70/2.8… and if the old one can work perfectly..?
              If there is truly perfect f-mount compatibility, what would be the reason to bother with a whole new mount? To save 50 grams??
              Take the D750… remove the mirror… reduce the VF hump a bit.. and you have a mirrorless barely bigger than the a9.

              And I do think mirrorless will start to dominate the full frame market in a few years… you’ll see the shift speed up if/when Canon goes mirrorless EF Mount.

            • Thom Hogan

              I believe your conclusions are wrong. There’s a simpler explanation: Nikon didn’t think they needed on sensor PD. That thinking didn’t change until some time very early this year, which would be way too late for the D850.

              Key parts like sensors lock down far earlier than people think they do. Just the process of saying “yes” to a design to getting first production back is over three months.

              The rumors about Nikon mirrorless are swirling in Tokyo. I’ll have more to say about that soon. But the apparent decision(s) is going to surprise everyone.

            • Adam Brown

              1– I hope I’m wrong
              2– if Nikon didn’t already know that a good live view system is a feature of growing importance… they really are idiots.
              3– unlikely I’ll be surprised… as I honestly have no clue what they are doing, so nothing will surprise me.
              My hope is for an f-mount mirrorless that can at least match the basic quality and features of the a7ii.

            • Thom Hogan

              The issue at Nikon that causes all the trouble these days is simple: bean counting. While the engineering staff can do anything, literally, getting that past accounting and upper management’s cost initiatives is problematic. That’s why we get weird things like the de-contenting of the D7500 (no grip, no second slot, etc.). Adding costs at the sensor puts tough constraints elsewhere on the product in order to meet the expected margin points.

              My guess is that as long as Nikon continues to manage to profit, they’ll continue to contract.

              To put that in context: had the D7500 not de-contented at all but added the things that it added, Nikon could have probably have put that at US$100 higher suggested retail price and been more successful than they currently are with the D7500 while retaining margins.

              So the other aspect of this is that they have a fixed notion of price elasticity of demand, and fixed price targets that they’re trying to hit. I think both those things are probably wrong in the current environment, at least for the higher end products where performance is why people are buying them.

            • Adam Brown

              1– I wonder how much on-sensor PDAF would really add to cost — I admit I’m just guessing, but I can’t imagind it would be more costly than the D850 electronic shutter or touch screen. Canon is now including dual pixel AF I All their cameras including low end, without needing to charge higher prices. So is it purely trying to save a few dollars or…
              2– they just can’t do it. At least not yet, in a cost efficient manner. Let’s remeber…. prior to the current generation of dusk pixel — Canon’s hybrid on-sensor AF was pretty poor. Sony has used OSPDAF for a while, but it wasn’t compatible with dSLR lenses until the a7rii—

            • Thom Hogan

              1. Cost is cost. It’s another testing cycle if nothing else. Plus more engineering cost as you need electronics that just access the PD points at high speed. Nikon’s juggling pennies now. If the design team adds pennies for something (touchscreen), then there’s an expectation of taking out pennies elsewhere. This is what gets a camera like the D7500 into trouble: the addition of the tilt touch screen certainly added costs, which necessitated taking out costs.

              2. I’ve never doubted Nikon’s technical prowess when the goal was clear, as it is here. The bigger issue for Nikon is legacy lenses were designed for high-precision PD and not for a low-precision PD followed by a CD check. The AF-P lenses solve that problem moving forward. But you really need lenses to move parallel to the sensor abilities. In other words, Nikon needs more AF-P lenses.

              FWIW, the issue with not getting any new mirrorless system out until early 2018 (latest target) appears to be lenses. For a company that made its reputation on glass and lenses, someone’s been asleep at the wheel.

            • Adam Brown

              They have 3-4 af-p lenses, all consumer lenses. So it doesn’t solve the problem for more advanced shooters.

              Mirrorless f-mount would solve the need to wait for new lenses!

              The issue is doing on sensor high precision phase detect — and Sony is just now getting to that point.

              I suspect this is where we will be by photokina 2018:
              Sony has a full mirrorless system with 25+ native lenses.
              Canon has EF full frame mirrorless — so full compatibility with that massive lens library.

              Nikon has new-mount mirrorless… with 3-4 basic lenses… and limited f-mount compatibility.

            • Thom Hogan

              Well, I said be ready to be surprised. Your last statement, at least if Nikon sticks to their current decision, would be wrong.

            • Adam Brown

              Now I’m curious….. Which part am I wrong about?? I truly HOPE I’m wrong…
              Hmmm, I’m now having a fantasy of a “hybrid mount” camera…. Sony A-mount users had a time when they were hoping for this.
              A mount that can accept F-mount.. but also can accept smaller wide angle lenses.
              Or a truly integrated adapter packaged with the camera, that gives full functionality, while allowing for use of some smaller primes and wide angle lenses.

              So I’m hoping you’re saying that I’m wrong about it being a new mount with only a handful of native lenses.

              Here is the selfish question — A year from now, am I solidly in Sony’s camp with A7iii and A6300 for backup… am I solidly in Nikon’s camp, maybe with D760 + new Nikon mirrorless…. or do my loyalties remain split.

            • Thom Hogan

              Yes, that’s what I’m saying. There will be at least one mirrorless camera—assuming nothing changes again—from Nikon that directly accepts current F-mount lenses.

              As to your question, I think it’s almost time that people have to make a choice and stick with it. That’s the danger for Nikon, actually. Fujifilm is the most extensive and interesting APS-C mount, while Sony has become a third viable full frame mount. Once you decide to make a jump to those other mounts, I don’t think you come back.

              That’s the crazy thing. Nikon’s laziness in protecting DX (buzz, buzz) produced one set of problems for them. Nikon’s long indecision about what to do about mirrorless forms a second set of problems for them. Canon’s strength forms a third set of problems for them.

              One camera is not going to solve all those problems, and I think Nikon management finally started to realize that. I’m still not so sure that they understand lenses, though, and that would be a huge indictment of a company that was one of two that dominated glass and lenses for so long.

            • Adam Brown

              “Yes, that’s what I’m saying. There will be at least one mirrorless camera—assuming nothing changes again—from Nikon that directly accepts current F-mount lenses.”

              You made me very happy!!!

              So 1 adapter version… 1 native mirrorless version?
              The pros and cons of that approach: In the long term, may not make sense to have both. But it’s a wise way to test the waters… let the actual consumer market decide which approach is stronger.

              Sony did this — and it made some customers very happy but really annoyed others. At one point, they had 3 totally different approaches going:
              1- traditional dSLR (D580, IIRC was the last).
              2- SLT — D33/D55
              3- Early mirrorless NEX

              The market responded to #2 and #3… and they ditched the traditional dSLR. Annoying some OVF A-mount lovers.
              Then they simultaneously went with more advanced NEX… eventually re-branding as Alpha.. and the early A7 cameras… testing whether “serious mirrorless” would take hold.
              Meanwhile, they kept SLT alive…..

              Their market has chosen the mirrorless…. so they have basically put the SLT A-mount way on the backburner (no new lenses, 1 new camera about every 18 months). Eventually… it will just die.

              Eventually… Nikon will likely need to go with 1 approach. But giving the choice of a “native” F-mount camera, vs an “adapted” F-mount camera may be a smart move.

              I suspect Canon is going to do something similar but break it down APS-C and full frame:
              APS-C will continue with adapter.. a few smaller custom mirrorless lenses, and an adapter for EF-S lenses.
              Meanwhile, as there is a less of a size advantage with full frame anyway… they will just go native EF for full frame.

              Anyway… native F-mount mirrorless… I hope you’re right. I’d be excited. A “mirrorless D500″… and I’m ditching my A6300.

            • F-mount mirrorless looks less likely today.

            • Thom Hogan

              Nope. First new DX mirrorless mount. What happens after that is the surprise. It’s looking like Nikon is going to go with at least three different mirrorless designs, maybe four.

              Funny thing is that it appears the current arguments in Tokyo are basically covering exactly the arguments that I wrote about two years ago. There are pluses and minuses to every mirrorless approach.

            • I like surprises 🙂 This will be really a big surprise if they do that, but I can confirm that Nikon will try to go full force in the mirrorless market, whatever that means.

            • Raymond Garcia

              Thom, I am lost here by your comment. Please correct me if I’m wrong….Peter said: “F-mount mirrorless looks less likely today” for which you responded: “Nope. First new DX mirrorless mount”.
              Are you saying that the “F” mount will be used in their DX/FF mirrorless bodies?? Please explain yourself in more details on this. The reason is like I said before, I have some cash for lenses, I invest more in lenses than in bodies, now that been said, if the F-mount will not move into the future with Nikon then, I will be waiting a lot longer until I see a clear path from Nikon, because as much as I like Nikon, I love my money much, much better. Please explain.

            • Thom Hogan

              I’m going to have to explain it more in an article on my site. Peter seems to be getting info from field tests. In HQ something different is brewing.

        • Jacob Smith

          The D860 remark was in response to your A7RIII remark… LOL… but seriously it’s nice to hear the DxO score for the D850 which interestingly enough scored higher than either the A7RII and A9.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0fc8421489d9d95e88b9a3cfbb619d6005f2002dd245abfdc11b2912211b574b.jpg

        • Piooof

          It’s not a 30% difference. DxO has a (IMHO stupid) special way to express high ISO score. Instead of reporting a cutoff value in f-stops or DIN (log values…) they report in ISO. This inflates the differences the more you go towards high values. The actual difference is 1/3 of a stop. Not a deal-breaker for most when you gain a full stop of DR at base ISO.

          • PhilK

            Excellent point.

            Unfortunately many buyers think simplistically when looking at specifications and topping the DxO general score numbers will still be good for Nikon’s sales, whether or not they actually mean much in real shooting situations.

      • ZoetMB

        In three years because you won’t see a D860 before that.

        • Kriss_De_Valnor

          But we may see a mirrorless FX Nikon camera with BSI sensor.

    • tomskyphoto

      Anyone blaming any of DxO’s top rated cameras of ruining her or his photography due to insufficient technological performance most likely doesn’t have a clue how to use any camera properly.

      And I bet most people, including me, would fail miserably trying to distinguish the output of said cameras in a blind test. With my JPEG output after post I more than once had to look it up in the EXIF file whether the photo was shot with the 810 or the A7RII.

    • Kriss_De_Valnor

      The key word is ISO64. If D850 didn’t have it – it would be better than A7RII.

    • James R Mercer

      ALL camera technology is operating on a leap-frog basis. Today it’s Nikon. Tomorrow it’ll be Canon or Sony. Then either Nikon or Canon, or Sony. Nothing new about that.

      • PhilK

        Except Canon’s overall DSLR IQ has been lagging Nikon’s for at least a couple of generations now. 😉

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      I’ve just looked into my magic crystal ball and I’ve seen that A7R[>next, please..<] whatever camera as an another ridiculously overpriced dissapointing product, which people will use as doorstop after half year..
      as usual.

      • we don’t even know if and when this camera will be announced

        • Nikkor300f4VR

          Exactly.

        • Raymond Garcia

          Peter, I have a very important question to ask you. I am sitting in some cash, but I am worry of spending it until Nikon tell us what will happen to the “F” mount lenses, two, three or 5 years from now? Will the “F” lenses work perfectly with Nikon expected Mirrorless? and what is going to happen to DSRL?…….Btw, I said: “one important question”,but it is more than that

          • I would not worry. We may be extinct before DSLRs are 🙂 If you buy a D850 now, I can ensure you DSLR cameras and F-mount lenses will be still around before your new camera dies completely.

  • akkual

    Nikon D850 is better in every graph than D810, and especially after ISO400. Yet dxomark has 200 points less for D850 in “sports”/”ISO” category. Sometimes they seem very strange in their pointing system, as they arbitrarily use either print or 1:1 results to gather the points.

  • RKS

    Why does the D5 show such a low ISO score ?. It trumps the D810 /D850/D4/1 DX Mk II. Right ?

    • akkual

      It trumps them after ISO1600. The way dxomark calculates its ISO score is very wierd. D850 is better on all graphs than D810, but yet it has 200 less.

  • James R Mercer

    As expected, frankly. There’s always something to improve, but this sensor (and the camera) is the first pro-quality all-rounder (in terms of capability) I’ve ever seen from any maker. I’ll be buying one sometime in November, presuming availability has cleared up.

  • gamer

    Excellent job, Nikon!

  • Kob12

    Need to indicate that the first color sensitivity graph is for print, while the second is for display view.

  • neonspark

    in b4 canon users question DXO to compensate.

  • Nikkor300f4VR

    Nice, well done Nikon Papa!
    However keep in mind DXO results always tend to score higher, then another often cited and well respected photo(n)sites result, hence the test method and calculation is different as well.
    Anyway, does it really matter at all? All today cameras are capable to deliver fantastic result, so just go out and keep shooting, we should push them (and ourselves too) to the limit! ☺

    • Jacob Smith

      You really have to be some tech nerd if you think sites like DxO giving there scores on cameras is even accurate let alone indicative of real world performance. For people who like to quote lab tests, charts, and synthetic bench marking sorry you are not a real shooter. The real proof is to go out and actually shoot and not being a parrot and repeating facts from sites like DxO. If you are one of these then I have a box of crackers for you.

      • Chris Phillips

        Hey man just go on YT and check out EVERY review that covered the D850 . They ALL claim what DXO has reported.I think that a lot of them have been uploaded by real photographers in real world situations. So yeah , it is the best camera out there.

        • Jacob Smith

          Personally I think DxO is a joke and do not take them seriously. But your comment about real world examples that have been uploaded I completely agree with. Real world results will always outshine laboratory tests. For Nikon I see the D850 as a sign of things to come. You can call me a Nikon fanboy if you like but personally we are only seeing the very beginning of what is to come.

      • Nikkor300f4VR

        LoL, Jacob! You must have had a bad day today, don’t you?.. 😀 Maybe try to read again my comment first before offering crackers.. 😛
        We all know how one should looked Dxo scores..
        Welcome to the party!

  • Jacob Smith

    The accomplishments of the D850 shows that Nikon can still build some of the best cameras. It’s easy for the mirrorless fanboys to claim that Nikon is nothing more than a dinosaur and because they’re sitting on their laurels that Nikon will go the way of the dinosaur. All of the mirrorless fanboys have been say this for an eternity yet every time I hear one of them make this claim no one has ever provided any evidence to back it up. Nothing more than hot air because their cameras don’t have the lineage or the hertiage like Nikon does. And talking about the lineage that’s going to be one of the main reasons why Nikon hasn’t released a FF mirrorless yet. For companies who start building cameras to be mirrorless from the get go like Sony its easy to build the cameras and the ecosystem to be mirrorless. A company like Nikon who has a huge base of user’s with equipment that’s based on an ecosystem around the DSLR Nikon needs to take their time and release and they will release mirrorless cameras at a time that will be able to support the equipment that current NIkon shooters have without having to make them buy all new gear. If Nikon were to do that then that will be the fastest way for Nikon to alienate the base that they have and drive over to companies like Sony. The approach that Nikon is taking is the most sensible way to produce new mirrorless cameras that will allow people to be able to use the current lenses they have and if Nikon does release a specific lens line for the mirrorless to be able to transition over to it over a period of time or just keep using what they have. The advantage of having the actual OEM produing the equipment that they will do a vastly better job of integrating the legacy lenses unlike where Sony needed third party manufacturers to produce adapters to adapt Canon lenses. Even though the Canon lenses worked there is a reason why Sony pushed to eventually produce native lenses. Since Nikon makes the camera bodies and the lenses the integration of the mirrorless cameras with the legacy lenses won’t suffer from the same performance issues Sony had with the adapted Canon lenses. Its Nikon cameras talking with Nikon lenses.

  • Chris Phillips

    The King back on his throne….Long live the King,
    he he …..I wouldn’t want to be a GFX owner right now. Nikon’s answer to the haters that were claiming that Nikon is failing. Short answer too only a letter and 3 numbers….D850.

  • mobilevil

    what’s with the 1st and 2nd graph? the data’s different but the title is the same?
    and someone at DxO forgot to update copyright year, it’s 2017 now.

  • Damn. Now I can’t blame my bad photos on my camera…

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      LoL, but true!
      camera owners first world problem: one should first master their gear, then can weep..

    • TurtleCat

      Sure you can, you just have to try harder. 🙂

    • ToastyFlake

      You can always say that you got a bad copy with crooked pixels.

  • sickheadache

    Well how bout that! And it is Not a Sony Sensor..Humm. Now if these guys would test Sigma’s 135 Art..Life would be complete.

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      LoL, good Camera Porn!

  • TurtleCat

    Now imagine if Nikon marketed this camera to the max, improved the workflow from memory card to output, and partnered with others to maximize the potential of the raw image captured…

    All these companies love to crow at their DXO or other “ratings” but they all turn a blind eye to what happens after the shutter is clicked.

    • Allan

      “and partnered with others to maximize the potential of the raw image captured…”

      Agree.

      Many have commented on this glaring deficiency.

      I think all the camera companies are trying to save money. And, maybe, the photo editing software cameras may now feel after years of “back-engineering”, that they don’t need to deal with the camera companies.

      Bad for us.

      Sad.

      • TurtleCat

        That’s probably true, that the software companies feel that way, but I bet they would take extra help. You’d think it would be in the camera company’s best interest to ensure that it is easy to use the output of the camera and easy to make it the absolute best easily. Not sure why they’re so blind to that?

        • Because then they will be opening up the recipe of their “secret sauce” to everybody.

          • TurtleCat

            I’m sure they think that but is there anything real in that secret sauce anyway? If they’re going to protect some of these things to the point that you can’t actually take advantage of them then what’s the point in even doing it?

            • There must be. Many of us are on Nikon because of that rendering.

            • TurtleCat

              The rendering is only meaningful, though, if you’re using their picture controls and jpegs. If you’re going through a raw converter that rendering is essentially thrown away.

            • So we again come to original point. Nikon keeping their secret close to their heart. But then again adobe has camera profiles(crude but still there) included in LR processing.
              And yes, the state of NX D is infuriating and one cannot help but think that nikon should help 3rd parties about it no matter what the cost to them.

          • Allan

            They previously opened up their “secret sauce” to Nik.

            I sincerely believe by their actions in the last 2-3 years, that they will not spend serious money on photo software and workflow (Snapbridge, NX-i, NX-D … )

            • That’s not true. Nik is useful because of the U point(patented) technology mainly. And it acted as a plugin to capture. It wasn’t used for basic raw image correction.

  • John W

    Why is the D850 (22nd) worse for sports than D810 (19th)? I bought it amongst other for the 9fps ? Who has the battery grip ? Find the selector wheel is too much sunk in or is is same as on the body ?

    • A. F.O.

      just take pictures of a horse race or a basketball game and you will not have any complain. I’m sure.

  • Nikkor300f4VR
    • A. F.O.

      🙂

  • Another new camera with a sensor that outscores everyone else. Just imagine what you could do with the “old” one if you had some new ideas.

    • Bob Thane

      Nothing wrong with wanting to record your ideas in the best possible quality, or have a better chance at recording them.

      Of course, you could say to just use the new IQ3 100MP Trichromatic, but for many that’s too expensive or is not suitable for the kind of photos they take.

      And the same goes for the D850. Most people won’t benefit from the image quality enough to justify the price, or they may be better suited by a D500 or D4, or a H3D-39. Who knows.

      But some people can afford to buy the D850, and unless it’s a downgrade for what they do it won’t make their images any worse. So why not be happy for those who are working to create better images? Artistic quality may be most important, but technical quality also matters. If you can maximize both it’s generally a good thing.

      • Bob, I’m mostly in agreement with you. I made my sarcastic remark to remind everyone that the constant quest to keep Nikon in business by purchasing the latest gear should be accompanied by an equal amount of effort to improve one’s photography by exploring your subjects more deeply, spending more time shooting than reading about it, look at other photographers work, look at work by other artists such as painters, sculptors, filmmakers. The fact is that at one time, the D700 was the greatest camera in the world according to many. Lots of folks made beautiful work with it. You still can. If that’s what you currently own, you should be content with it and continue using it to make as good a work as you can. Few will see the difference between the images you shot with it vs. a D850, a Sony ARwhatever or most any other camera. If you’ve worn out your old camera, then here’s Nikon’s best effort that you should purchase (if you can afford it). If, like a friend of mine, you get paid to shoot a lot of video and have a large set of Nikon-mount glass, then this camera would be an important purchase, regardless of what you own now (D810s in his case). And finally, Sensor Score. Really? That’s what would decide it for you? “I’m selling my Pentax system and getting the Nikon D850 because the sensor scored two points higher in a test”? Sorry, more sarcasm. I get the feeling that there are folks that think their photos would be better because a camera’s sensor scored three point higher. Peter’s right, “i think the(sic) will hit or surpass the 100 points mark, whatever that means :)”.

        • bonem

          Then again this camera, much like the d800, might be what makes folks switch. I know a few pros that switched from Canon when d800 came it.
          Personally, I like new things. They get me motivated to go out and do things. A new truck makes me want to drive. A new bike makes me want to ride. I like to compare new vs old like a scientist. So I ordered the d850 so that I can feel like shooting the same things I’ve always shot is new again.

        • decentrist

          this from someone who can’t see the difference in rendering between a zoom lens an an older prime

          • what’s your point?

            • decentrist

              Irony is a beautiful thing. You are questioning a fellow photog chasing resolution and dynamic range, among other attributes, reasoning that the D700 has beautiful output. That’s entirely true, but then lash out at others pointing out the same thing with older lenses.

            • Sorry, maybe you’re confusing me with someone else. You’d have to point out something specific to me. First, I’m not sure I “lash out” at anything (other than the asshole in the White House.). Second, older lenses are cool…I have a bunch of them. They don’t have the same sharpness or contrast of contemporary lenses, but they often have a really nice feel about them. I use them on my Df and like what I see. For some kinds of photography they really give a nice “look”. My original comments have to do with comments I read that suggest that somehow this new camera is going to make my photography better. My argument is that the result would be more interesting if THEY did something to make their photography better, not NIKON did something. Heinz Kluetmeier didn’t need any of this stuff to capture his shot of Pete Rose diving into third base because he did amazing stuff with what he had. You can argue that now everyone can have that measure of success because the AF in my D5 is so amazing. OK, but now being able to do that isn’t so amazing as it used to be, so…

      • MB

        That is all true, but the thing is D850 is very reasonably priced and is the best all around camera currently on the market so if you need a new camera it is an easy choice…

        • A. F.O.

          agree! Remember the 4000 USD tag of the sony A9!….everyone here in NR where afraid that D850 price would be of that sort….
          I guess D850 is a real deal for the buck, even more when it got a 100 DxO…
          and professionals are saying it is all the specks promised!…

          • Mike

            In Canada the a9 is $5500. The D850 is $4200. But if you ‘need’ it, you need it and it gets paid off quickly.

    • bonem

      I’m all out of ideas. I’m going to reshoot all my old stuff with the new camera and drool over the improvements. (Joking…sorta)

      • Get some monographs of photographers you admire and make copies of their shots using the D850. Actually, there’s an important artist who’s already done that sort of thing. Look up Sherrie Levine on Wikipedia. Interesting stuff.

      • Nikkor300f4VR

        LoL!

  • Todd Davis

    I put zero faith in their ISO scores because they have the D5 ISO score at like 2500, and the Sony A9 in the 3000’s and yet side by side the D5 is clearly cleaner high iso than the A9… so therefore the ISO scores are nonsensical and inaccurate

    • MB

      Dxomark defines low-light ISO as the highest ISO setting for a camera that allows it to achieve an SNR of 30dB while keeping a good dynamic range of 9 EVs and a color depth of 18bits.
      So they do not even consider how cameras behave above that ISO where D5 actually shines …

      • SpecialMan

        Thanks for figuring that out and explaining it. Leaving aside the D5 issue for the moment, would you say that it is a reasonable way to compare the high ISO capabilities between different cameras? Would you be comfortable using it to choose between the various Nikon models, for instance? How about between brands?

        As an aside, I rarely keep track of the ISO on my D810 anymore. I shoot using the shutter speed and aperture I need because I know I’ll get shots that are totally usable by clients once they’ve been through Lightroom regardless of how high I set the ISO (these are event shots, of course). When it’s food or portraits, it’s back to ISO 64….

        • MB

          Depends on usage, for example DR of 8 or even 7 EV is perfectly acceptable for me especially for newspapers and magazines and in that case D5 would be better than most other cameras, that kind of arbitrary judgments is why I don’t consider Dxomark as an absolute authority on the subject …

          • Sandy Bartlett

            Their methodology is solid and consistant. You can just look at their data and form your own opinions.

        • Max

          Also check out photonstophotos

  • I have never understood the low “DXOMark sport rate” of Canon cameras and I do not understand the low score the D850 has either … judging by the graphs everything looks quite the same to me?

    I am very happy our nikon cameras get the best scores in Color sensitivity as well but I still prefer Canon colors so far so I am not too sure how relevant this is to me. My apologies for saying this.

    Where Nikon clearly won the battle long time ago is with dynamic range and AF! where Canon sucks totally even if the 5D4 has quite acceptable results.

    At the end there is no doubt this camera is killing it on the paper, but I mostly hope Nikon has been working nicely on offering more pleasing colours (and I have read they did!) and this machine will be a total blast (only lacking a multidirectional tilt screen if you want to be picky…)

  • A. F.O.

    yes!
    🙂 Peter did it again!

  • TwoStrayCats

    Now that is impressive.

  • AnotherView

    Don’t post this on a Canon forum…you’ll risk a nuclear explosion! ;o)

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      No because:
      1) they are reading Nikon rumors nowadays;
      2) they know well: it is not about the gears, but how one master it.

  • RC Jenkins

    Where are the comments from all of the people who previously complained about the D850’s worse DR…

    ….before the camera came out?

    • Captain Megaton

      It was an observation made from a different set of measurements. DxO divides through by the pixel count, photonstophotos was a per-pixel evaluation.

      • Michiel953

        So what do these differences mean for the actual images?

        • Captain Megaton

          That the D850 has more DR/less noise, except when viewed at 100% magnification.

          • Michiel953

            What I meant was what do the methodological differences mean in real life?

      • RC Jenkins

        Nope, that’s wrong.

        The DR listed on both sites is sensor-wide…in fact, photonstophotos even uses the noise floor as the bottom end of DR–noise which does not exist on single pixels.

        Those comments I was referring to were not based on any observations. The camera wasnt released yet, and no measurements were taken at all on any site.

    • A. F.O.

      They’re are buying it!!! 🙂

  • Aldo

    well done d850… waiting on rumors for its baby brother the d760.

  • Ric of The LBC

    I am KICKING ASS

  • jason

    What happened to the RED camera that used to be number one? No charts show it.

  • Looks like Canadians like D850 too much – check the Pre Order description from Londondrugs store for those who ordered D850 from them 🙂 tiny letters at the bottom right under Add to cart 🙂 LMAO 🙂 Might be DXO review haha. Happy shooting https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d2aeab03bf38ee8fcddcdd93ac6188ac52b29635da947468812161d813237c44.png

    • Nikkor300f4VR

      2060..? LoL!
      In 2060 I will use my D1450..

  • ??

    • A. F.O.

      Forget it, wrong photo

  • Cynog

    Didn’t the Pentaz 645Z appear briefly in DxO Mark with a score of 100? Or did I imagine that?

  • Claude Mayonnaise

    As usual, DXO is amazing and total fact if you are the one on top. If you are not on top it’s ridiculous and should not be payed attention to. I’m waiting for the day when we will all look back at a score of 100 and laugh because the future will bring the ability to see a zit on a field mouses bum from 200 yards out when zoomed in on Lightroom 45,

  • No, the title is correct – DxOMark never officially published the 645z test results. Nobody knows why.

  • PhilK

    The butthurtedness from non-Nikon users in the comments on the DPreview article on this are entertaining. 😀

  • RIT

    Seems to disappoint expectations in the low-light department, going by DXO’s figures… ?

    • spam

      DxO measures something, and does it consistently. But that something isn’t image quality as you’d perceive it looking at well processed images. It’s often a pretty good correlation though, and looking at some of DxO’s individual measurements is very useful.

  • decentrist

    ….but if you are shooting low light, D750 beats it

    • Michael

      If you do noise filtering at much higher resolution + downscale d850 to d750 size, I bet you will have more details and better noise reduction effort overall. So no, it does not beat it at the final production output level.

      • decentrist

        enjoy yourself sitting at the computer trying to match the sooc output of the D750….the 850 is a marginal improvement in noise over the 810. Many 850 owners will discover this after “upgrading”. It’s an expensive lesson to learn. It will be the same lesson they’ll learn trying to shoot on the fly in low light handheld. They’ll lose the resolution advantage to micro smear. To each his own though, as this keeps Nikon in the game.

        • Michael

          All images go through correction, post and retouch. I do not store, sell or distribute SOC RAW files. When I get micro smear from hand shake and downscale to 24MP, I get D750 output under the same condition. If I get no smear on both, I get twice more details and twice more information on d850 to work with. No loss here, only gain under better conditions.

        • Matt Comerford

          lol

  • Pancanikonpus

    sensor hit bottleneck, they couldn’t able to bring everything gains parallel

  • Zos Xavius

    Impressive. I like how the score goes to 100 and yet all the various metrics bars are not at 100%. Why create a system where your variables can create a final score higher than your maximum score?

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