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Nikon rep: customers aren’t really asking us for a mirrorless camera

Just some quotes from Techradar's interview with James Loader, Nikon UK Product Manager for Consumer Products:

"We're watching the market, much the same as everyone else is, we'd be foolish to ignore what's happening. However, I would say that the Coolpix P7100 meets the needs of SLR users that want something more compact, or for those users that want to step up."

"With our DSLRs we are already close to number one in the market, we have been attacking Canon really hard lately. Neither us or Canon are in the CSC market, but we still dominate the industry. I believe we have something for everyone at the moment."

According to Loader, customers are not really asking for a new Nikon mirrorless camera and I think he is not far from the truth:

"When we were at Focus on imaging trade show last year, it didn't get asked for. It's really only the press that constantly want to know."

Nikon is expected to announce their mirrorless solution in September.

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  • alex

    :( i wished they would make one. oh well, maybe canon will .
    and there’s always the GF, which is fantastic until you take it indoors (WB)
    but hopefully they’ll fix that soon. i personally don’t want a dslr anymore since i saw the potential of MF3. just hoped the major players come with a model too.. :(

    • matgay

      of course no one is asking for nikons mirrorless!!! at first they let out the rumor of a mirrorless “pro”. But now they are going to release a mirrorless “midget”. Who would want that?

  • MarkR

    So,… let me get this straight.

    Nikon rep says customers aren’t really asking for a mirrorless camera. But apparently Nikon is making one anyway to be announced in a few weeks according to all other sources?

    So is this guy simply following orders from corporate HQ to do the usual spin control denial type propaganda leading up to the big reveal next month?

    Honestly I’m not that interested in mirrorless either but do get annoyed at corporate spin control when they try to deny that something is imminent. Just say “No comment” and spare us the BS, Nikon.

    Give us a Coolpix type camera like the 7100 or AW100 BUT with a 24mm WA capable lens(NOT 28mm) and an APS-C size sensor. And 1080p 60, not just 30.

    • PHB

      Only idiot companies listen to customers when it comes to new products.

      How many Apple customers do you think told Jobs that they wanted an iPod? The answer is zero.

      How many Apple customers do you think asked for the iPhone? Again zero. The previous computer company phones had been utter crap.

      The trick for a company is to understand the real requirements that customers have and developing a compelling technology that meets them.

      Customers have very often asked me to produce a particular product and then discovered that what they were asking for was absolutely no use to them.

      • steve jobs

        Customers did want a ipod…bad example!
        they also screamed for a smarter phone!

        This mirrorless camera is not inventive for the customer and would only appeal to pros who care about mirrorless…but the specs thus far do not look promising for pros to even want it.

        • Scurvy hesh

          Well no one really asked for the iPad. In fact many questioned the necessity of such a device and predicted its doom. Boy were they wrong! These companies arent stupid. They know the world is full of stupid consumers with egos that need the latest (not nessisarily greatest cameras). They (like apple) will put their name on a product and people will buy them up regardless. Ever seen the bootleg iPads in china?? I pretty sure this “kitchen sink” product roll outs are an invention of Sony. This is why even though their cameras are lol they still are competitive. Unfortunately for nikon to stay competitive they need to play ball and thats why we are being bombarded with foolpix cameras. They will sell a shit load of them to offset r&d for the pro cameras you consumers want and will post pics of your cats on Dpreview with. That said im waiting too, because i want to buy your cherry D700 so i can get back to Photographing naked ladies

          • Anonymous

            Where’s the link?

            • Scurvy hesh

              LOL! I know what I saw in the tech news and blogs before the iPad came out. I remember having doubts myself. If you need further links check google. Thats the joy of the internets. Doing your own research.

  • sflxn

    No one is asking for a Nikon mirror less because they heard the 2.7x crop and have given up. I am no longer anxious about the Nikon mirror less. I’m anxious to see what Fuji does in this market. So, Nikon, you’re right. No one is asking because we can’t fathom what product you could come out with after 3-4 years of planning and a 2.7x crop. Nikon, you really deserve to get skinned alive by others who are innovating while you and Canon take your old men naps.

    • sflxn

      Nikon, eventually, the smartphones will obsolete your P&S market. Hopefully, m43, Sony, Fuji, Leica, Apple, Android, Microsoft all take their pound of flesh from you and Canon. Nikon, you have no imagination whatsoever! I am saying this as a Nikon DSLR user.

      • Andrew

        No one imagined that consumers wanted a $3,500 pro camera with magnesium alloy body. Then Nikon released the D7000 priced at $1,200! So don’t react at what Nikon says, look at what they have done in the past as a predictor of what they will do in the future. It takes 3 to 4 years of development to completely exceed our expectations; I believe Nikon is about to do that, as they did with the D7000. They will give us a Mirror Less camera, 2 new Full Frame cameras (one pro, one prosumer), and 1 new pro DSLR camera. Only the pro cameras will cost over $3,000. The first of these cameras will ship this year, the second in the early part of next year, and the third by the end of next year.

    • http://www.amanochocolate.com Art

      There is a lot of possibilities for a Nikon mirrorless. I was very excited until I figured out that it wasn’t Nikon’s answer to RED.

      • ZoetMB

        I hope that was meant to be a funny or sardonic comment. An equipped Red camera winds up being in the $40,000 range with lens.

      • kyoshinikon

        Lol XD

    • Anonymous

      I wonder what it was like at the table when Nikon was developing this. “what can we do with mirrorless?” “let’s hobble it with a tiny sensor.”
      No, it probably went like “how small does the sensor have to be for this camera to fit in a pocket and deliver decent image quality?”
      Is sensor size really related to lens size? Fiji did it, but they had to go with a fixed lens. I’d say they nailed it. Let’s face it, those Fujis cost a pretty penny. I imagine Nikon is looking at a different market with the mirrorless.
      So, we aren’t first in line. Do we act like a pile of third graders or the professionals we purport to be?
      Screw that,, I want my F-in G-Damned FX Nikon!
      I don’t know much about pixels, but I think a camera should print a 16″x20″ print with the native pixels. IQ rules!
      Love the D7000, but it’s not camera enough to do the things I want to do (weddings). I suppose it’s the buffer.

  • disiderio

    Dear Nikon, I just bought a Fuji x100 and love it. Relatively big sensor killer auto wb and exposure and a nifty lens. I don’t need your cropped crap either, so at least were in agreeance. I hope you upgrade the d700 soon a my workhorse needs a partner in crime… One with 100% viewfinder, one with HD video and wireless capabilities. Stop mucking around and innovate!!!!!

  • ActionJunky

    I am more intrigued by the AW100 than the 7100. The AW appears to be ruggedized and has great slow motion capabilities and full 1080P video. I just hope the mounting hardware is robust enough to endure the situations where the camera will shine. Surprisingly, the GoPro can be used for SCUBA diving right out of the box with 180 foot limit. The AW100 is limited to 30′ or snorkeling. So, I can keep my D300 and purchase the AW100 for video. No need to upgrade to the D300S. However, the GoPro comes with mounting hardware for $300. Decisions, Decisions… I have no need for the mirrorless. I am far more interested in the Sony A77… 12 FPS with 1.5 crop sensor and non-moving mirror. It is inexpensive enough to purchase for sports and not upgrade the D300. Be careful Nikon… Those that think they are king of the world are the first to fall.

    • J C

      AW100 is not a huge innovation…Panasonic already makes the TS3 (3rd generation now) camera that’s can rated deeper than the AW100. It also has similar shock and temperature rating. Also full 1080p HD..

      • kyoshinikon

        Olympus has been doing this for years and were the first to go big with it.

        In fact Nikon is last to the game with models out by Sony, Oly, Pentax, Kodak, and Canon

      • ActionJunky

        You are really missing all the points. But to address your concerns, the Panasonic sensor does not measure up to the Nikon and the Nikon can be used for slow motion. Those are my main motives. They may not be yours. I am really seeking a DSLR with 1080P video capability, high FPS, GPS, and a video out for an iPad (Useful for pole shooting, remote shooting, etc.) For everything else, I can buy a special tool, as long as it does one or two things very well. It seems that Nikon is trying to be everything to everybody, and that has always been a poor marketing strategy.

  • NG42

    I don’t get this. Have they put the kibosh on the mirrorless camera?

  • Dweeb

    Nikon rep: “No one wants or needs more than 12MP” LOL

    • R R

      Nikon rep in one word: IDIOT

    • Acetothermus

      Unless you are making insanely large enlargements (eg billboards or sides of buildings) you really don’t.

      • Ke

        Even a billboard doesn’t need to be using that many – you read billboards from 50 plus feet away, no one is looking at it from half a foot away & inspecting the pixels.

        • Acetothermus

          Granted, but you don’t want to start with a 640×480 image and blow it up to a billboard sized print. It would like complete and utter ass. Heck, even 8-bit graphics would have less pixelation.

      • Michael

        You don’t crop your images?

        • Scurvy hesh

          Yes. in the viewfinder.

          • Mike

            :-) +1

          • aetas

            +2

          • kyoshinikon

            This is a draw… :P

  • walfaro

    So all this only shows something that does not make much sense, Nikon needs new staff in production with the capacity to read what the market is looking for, seriously, I feel Nikon does not have the wow effect anymore. A P7100 was not necessary, Nikon could have offered something twice as good for the price of a D3100, not a remake of the sad P7000 camera, for instance…

    Hopefully new dSLRs will come with something worth our long waiting, and some replacements of the elephant 80-400 and the 300 f4 without VR in these days…

  • http://www.dlsphoto.net asdf

    Why would I want such a small sensor? Besides, they changed the lens mount, so none of my existing lenses will work without some sort of 3rd party adapter. That alone is a deal breaker.

    Sony has a full sized APS-C sensor in their NEX mirrorless cameras. Nikon has gotten this one completly wrong.

    • s

      Yeah, but you can’t use your A-mount lenses on the NEX without an adapter either. Sony may not have gotten the NEX completely wrong, but they didn’t get it completely right either.

    • Worminator

      It’s only a small sensor compared to m42 or APS-C. Compared to any compact camera, it’s huge. Camera and, more to the point, lens size scales with sensor size, just look how small the Pentax Q is.

      Nikon correctly saw undeveloped middle ground between the G12/LX-5 and GF-3, PEN and decided to step in.

      Say what you will, it will offer unique attributes in terms of price, size, and performance.

  • jg

    So Nikon’s mirrorless is an answer to a question nobody asked. In other words, it’s a CYA/Keeping Up With the Joneses move. It’s not a Nikon idea or innovation. Nikon is just covering an untested new market so it doesn’t get left behind if this market does take off.

    Meanwhile, they string along their most vocal supporters. What a way to run a company.

    Thom Hogan says:

    D4 announce unknown, ship around end of year (Dec/Jan/Feb).
    D700 replacement announce soon (Sept), ship late in year.
    D300s replacement I don’t expect until 2012.
    Mirrorless I expect to be announced in September, ship soon thereafter.

    With admin’s sources saying don’t get your hopes up, with the D3100 due for a scheduled replacement, and with the D700 seemingly following the 4 year pro body replacement schedule, I think Thom is incorrect. I have lost all hope that Nikon will launch any prosumer body this year, be it FF or DX.

    My prediction: D800 in July/August 2012. No D300s replacement, prosumer DX market abandoned.

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ [NR] admin

      The D3100 replacement was just a speculation on my part. I do not know what camera will be announced in September, but I have a feeling it will be a “lower” DX model. Maybe Nikon will introduce a new series bellow D3100, since nothing else is really up for replacement? Again, lower your expectations for now, unless I received some real leaks about a D700 replacement.

      • Rich

        I can’t believe Nikon isn’t close to releasing a something that will compete with the 5d mark II. I think your website should be a wake up call for them. It shows the frustration Nikon users have right now. Maybe their new motto should be, Nikon: lower your expectations. Lol

        P.s I’m addicted to NR

        • Just A Thought

          “I can’t believe Nikon isn’t close to releasing a something that will compete with the 5d mark II”

          Why would anyone release something to compete with something that is rumored to be updated shortly? I don’t believe any Japanese company is clueless about what the others are about to announce. Never mind the rumored 6D Full Frame.

        • kyoshinikon

          While I would love a replacement, the D700 already competes well against it. The only advantage the 5d mk2 has is the 2 main specs (21mpx and 1080p video) other than that it barely keeps up with a D7000 (that extra zero is on intentionally).

          The Af sucks, the fps is much slower at 3.9 (believe me that is s l o w), the viewfinder is darker than some dx cameras, the ergonomics are everywhere, no hide image function, No built in flash, etc…

          Canons tend look better on paper but Nikons tend to be more useful on the field.

    • DX2FX

      That D700 replacement Thom was talking about could well be a D700s/700x as opposed to a new D800. This fits well to the current hearsay on low expectation.., D700 follow-up.., refresh of an existing model…etc.
      But at least it is an FX body if that’s what going to be announced in September.

    • ZoetMB

      I think you’re incorrect and here’s why: Nikon has to have shipped new cameras before March 2012. Why? Because at the end of their fiscal Q1 (June 2011), they upped their full-year forecast substantially.

      In fiscal 2011 (ending March 2011), they sold 4.29 million DSLRs. In fiscal 2012, they’re now projecting to sell 5.4 million DSLRs. That can only happen if they both get inventory in the stores of current models that aren’t going to be replaced AND get new models in the store. And the stores have to receive them before March 2012 to book the revenue. So I think there’s lots coming.

      And even though there’s all these naysayers on here claiming that Nikon is failing, in their fiscal first quarter, they kicked ass! Last fiscal year, their DSLR line achieved a 30.3% market share (comparing Nikon reported sales to CIPA shipped units). In the first quarter of this year, they achieved a 41.7% (!) share — the last time they accomplished that was in fiscal 2008.

  • sflxn

    I no longer really care what Nikon introduces now. My D7000 is fine when I need a DSLR. My Fuji X100 is a great carry with me everywhere camera. I’m blocking out all Nikon news now unless they come out with a fantastic D700 replacement. I have no hopes for their mirror less. Their P&S do not appeal to me. I’m trying really hard to avoid watching Sony innovate like mad. Love how they make cameras with GPS built-in unlike Nikon’s external connection BS. Next year will decide whether Sony’s gravitational pull becomes too great. They’re supposedly going to get extremely aggressive in FF with 3 cameras next year.

  • C_QQ_C

    >>According to Loader, customers are not really asking for a new Nikon mirrorless camera and I think he is not far from the truth:<<

    Well I have heard multiple people around me that would like to have one with aps-c sized sensor, but i fear that most of them are turning to olympus, after these comments from Nikon…

  • Leaking Starfish

    I do not know a single working photographer that uses Sony. It will take a long time, a very long time to build up a complete system with a reputation for reliability. Are you going to do a multiday shoot with your most important client in the rain and just pray the Sony stuff doesn’t break? Maybe someday, but not anytime soon.

    • sflxn

      Read the comments from Sony. They understand this problem. They’ve already set the expectation that next year is when they will attack Canikon in a big way. Sony understands professional support. They have a huge support network in video. They are very capable of creating a high quality camera that will last in any weather. They just introduced a weather sealed lens. I know a lot of pros who have switched to Sony from Canikon. Not all pros need a camera for the arctic or rain. Among pros, everyone is keeping an eye on Sony. Canikon is sleeping right now, but in a year or two, they may be fully awake and sweating over the Sony attacks. It’s very refreshing to see a player aggressively innovating. I hate stagnation.

      • Sam

        Sony is innovating more than anyone else now because they know they need to outdo Canikon for Pros to consider switching. Simply matching Canon and Nikon features is not good enough.

        They’re concentrating on FF next year with magnesium alloy bodies and most likely weatherproofing those cameras. Sony have had more breakthroughs than Canon and Nikon put together recently. SLT for one, GPS built in, Sweep Panorama with 3D. Don’t forget Sony manufacture great sensors too, used in some Nikon cameras.

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m an avid Nikon user but Sony is one to watch for innovations. Nikon and Canon need to wake up and catch up with Sony. It’s great there’s another competitor now to force Nikon and Canon to step up their R&D. They’ve had the market cornered completely for too long and now there’s someone new with new features.

        • http://nikonrumors.com/ [NR] admin

          I agree, Sony is very agressive and it will not take them long until they have some good products. I don’t think they are there yet.

          • nikonhaha

            sony can easily overtake canikon with all their resources. video line and patents. and sony can shrink electronic components so much better than any deal canikon can possibly strike. the mirrorless future BELONGS to sony.

            • kyoshinikon

              BTW I personally know 3 pros who dumped Canon for Sony gear… I think sony is there but in order to get the market they need to get the reputation that canikon has. Most of the noobs I know buy a canon not because it actually is better but because “everybody says it is the best camera, I mean it sells the most”… Then I finally can get them to try a nikon and they usually regret buying their rebel xt…

              Not to say canon is bad but to clarify that canon is mainly living off their bloated reputation (and paper specs) not the fact that their product is superior.

        • sflxn

          A couple of years ago, Sony said their goal was to become the #2 DSLR maker. We all laughed. After the last 2 years, no one is laughing now. It’s looking like they no longer care for being #2. They look like they want to get to #1 in the next 5-8 years.

          It’s amazing the amount of resources Sony is throwing at conquering this market. It makes everyone else look like they’re standing still.

          I am currently an avid Nikon DSLR user too, and don’t have a strong urge to switch yet, but at the rate that Sony is innovating, it would be hard to ignore in a year or two. Here’s to hoping Nikon hasn’t abandoned the D700 and D300 segments.

        • Andrew

          I am a big fan of Sony and respect their manufacturing strengths. But they need to be two to three years ahead of Nikon for most avid Nikon fans to take notice. For Sony to come out with new FF cameras by next year will be too late because by then, Nikon should have a complete line of FF and Pro DSLR cameras on the market. Arguably, 24MP Full Frame cameras coupled with Nikon’s image processing might, should give us image quality comparable to 35mm film cameras. Add to that great videos cam functionality, who will need to upgrade beyond that, except pros. Ok, I know people will find reasons to desire a new camera, whether to replace a defective camera or for some fancy new feature, then at that point in time, Sony may have a chance, not withstanding your current investments in lens.

        • no-nikon-no

          if youre photographing people, only sony has autofocus zeiss lenses. canikon zeiss is manual focus only i guess because sony has closer agreements with zeiss.

        • Jabs

          @Sam and others here.

          I disagree in your stating that Sony is innovating in DSLR’s – only in the consumer end do I see this innovation via ridiculous or over-hyped specs aimed at people unaware of much that really MAKES a great camera.

          Basically, I see Sony as dumbing down photography to SEEM like they are on to something NEW while unable to deliver REAL innovations.

          Mirrorless is pathetic and the pellicle mirror was done ages ago by BOTH Nikon and Canon = not new.

          Sony to ME, shows us a fresh approach to doing things due to their VIDEO Equipment strength, but their video quality is NOT better, their photo quality is NOT better, yet they are now becoming the rage!

          WHY then – are we dumb spec-hounds or just enamored with cute things that DO NOT perform better but merely sound more ‘high-tech’ to neophytes and thus now great.

          WHEN Sony or any other manufacturer BEATS Nikon at photo quality and clarity, then we all can talk. Maybe you also ask the Canon video shooters if Sony beats their 5dMK2 or 7D in video.

          So far Sony has NO lenses that speak of any breadth or scope that a Pro would drool over and thus bodies chasing specs with NO real advantages and some serious deficiencies even with their famed Zeiss lenses.

          People are now obsessed with specs and NOT with performance and therefore Sony wins from THAT perhaps.

          Look at the FILES and then decide = Sony’s BEST gear is worse than even the amateur D7000/D5100 and thus WHAT is Nikon to think, but maybe laugh while NOT ignoring the seriousness of Sony’s challenge. Basically, I don’t see Sony as even in the league of the low end Nikon’s and thus don’t care.

          You can talk your way into the hearts of consumers BUT you have to EARN the trust and admiration of PROS = Nikon’s strength.

          SHOW me the files = the proof of your superiority and not bedazzle me with useless or mundane specs! Techno-babble versus REAL innovation = look at the files of a Nikon D7000 or a D3s and a D3X and they are light years ahead of anything currently released by Sony = reality to me. Nikon is the one doing most of the REAL innovation now for the last three years and their sales reflect the people are seeing exactly THAT.

      • Worminator

        Sony is pro-er than pro when it comes to audio and video, but the camera division is Konica Minolta plus the cybershot consumer crap. There doesn’t seem to be much connection, i.e. the people working on the pro video cameras and lenses didn’t seem to have much input on the a900.

        Certainly if that changed Sony could easily challenge Canon and Nikon in the pro market.

        • Andrew

          I am not so sure about this analysis. The new cameras coming out of Sony represents a shift from the traditional camera technologies to new, innovative technologies, coupled with Sony’s manufacturing strengths such as sensor development. Sony has had years to integrate Konica Minolta’s staff into the Sony organization.

        • kyoshinikon

          The 5dmk2 is pretty crappy in comparison to the a900 in many key features (don’t count video as pros have lived without it since the beginning)

          Sony has already challenged them and they know where they are going. Canons problem is that they are too bloated to see that their product is falling behind on everything but the megapixels and video, and Nikon is stupid for not addressing the pros as pro photographers play a role in influencing the consumer on consumer cameras anyway. With the point and shoot dying rapidly (as cellphones catch up) canikon needs to realize that their main market is shifting and that is what sony is doing now…

          This is why sony can take on not just the consumer but the pro as well. They aren’t looking to convert pros already shooting as much as they are trying to grab the next generation of pros.

  • http://lgphotoart.com LGPhotoArt

    The only interesting piece of news for me is the AW100. I was going to buy a Go Pro HD Hero, but now I will wait and see how the AW100 performs…on paper it sounds pretty good.
    On the FF side, I feel like Nikon would be better off leaking some info on an upcoming D700 replacement, if they have one. It does not look like there are many unsold D700 cameras on the market, and the prosumer customers are really pissed off right now. No benefit comes from keeping them in frustration for much longer, switching to Canon is already a reality even for professional photogs (e.g. Z. Arias).
    I am just glad I did buy the D7000 back in December, to feed my curiosity for video, but I am ready to use that as a backup and buy the new prosumer FF when it comes out….when?
    Customers that buy a FF probably buy also the equivalent value in lenses…if we estimate a total of $4000-5000, that’s a lot of point and shoot cameras, so I would not say the prosumer’s market is not a lucrative one for Nikon. Show some attention to the customer needs Nikon, hope you will.

  • NikonTheAvenger

    I agree with Nikon. No one ask for it really. If we look back at the history of Nikon they were not a camera maker. Did all the masses ask them to continue making lenses only? Did we asked them to continue making lenses in F mount? I bet no. Did we asked them to make those wonderful 35mm film bodies? Nope! Did we asked them to innovate and build wonderful dslr? Nope! Did we asked them to make a mini D3? Nope, and yet they offer us a wonderful D700, not to mention the nocturnal D3s. If you own these camera as well and not happy right now, then photography is not for you! Yup, no one asked for mirrorless but it will be announced anyway!

  • John R

    Nikon rep: customers aren’t really asking us for a mirrorless camera:
    My concern is didn’t Nikon do market research on this product?
    Why is Nikon wasting its time on these low-end items, when droves of people are waiting for the D700 replacement, or D4?
    It’s a head scratcher, if you ask me!

    • Abo

      although i agree to what you say, the problem is:
      while they sell 10 D4 in a certain period of time, they sell 100k coolpix in the same period… the profit is not in the d4 segment… for sure!

      • tifkat

        Rubbish! They showed clearly there’s profit in the DSLR segment in their recent figures. The reality is that the ‘markup’ on DSLRs is bigger than the ‘markup’ on P&S cameras. They MUST sell 100k P&S to make the profit of say 1000 DSLRs. It’d be interesting to know the actual ratios.

    • ZoetMB

      The resources at Nikon used to develop and manufacture small cameras are not the same resources used to develop DSLRs. So it’s not an either/or situation. Also, last fiscal year, Nikon sold 14.26 million Coolpix units vs. 4.29 million DSLR units. And their market share on the Coolpix line has been increasing (13.3%) last year, in spite of the fact that there are so many players in the market. So this is an important market to them and they’re not going to ignore it. But that’s a moot point anyway because one does not preclude the other. If Nikon never produced another Coolpix, you wouldn’t get the new Nikon DSLR any faster.

  • EnPassant

    I think that Nikon product manager want to be as infamous as the IBM-boss claiming there was only a need for three computers in the whole world. I bet in a not so far away future most cameras with exchangeable lenses will be mirrorless. Even Nikons and Canons.

    • PHB

      Actually it was an academic at Manchester University. And given the capabilities of the machines of the day, the number of tasks they were capable of was not very large.

      It was only after the computer was connected up to the IBM Hollerith tabulator that the potential was seen.

  • Abo

    Interesting:
    the d7000 price in UK has gone really low… suddenly!
    camera with kit dropped almost 200 and body only almost 100…

    hum… where there is smoke, there is fire… but what for?

    • jacob

      May be a reaction to the newly announced Sony crop sensor DSLR’s?

  • nikhtwey

    If it’s presumable that 80 percent of people wanting HARD the replacement of D700 and D3s are participating in this talk, this would make at most 200 photographers (say 400). The others (maybe 5000 worldwide) are out shooting and not asking Nikon anything. Moreover, 80 percent of the 200 guys here wouldn’t switch to the brand next door for the simple reason that this brand does not offer anything dramatically better than the present pro lineup from Nikon.
    Nothing Urges Nikon in the body department, and rather than delivering Superfluous New bodies, from 2010 to 2011, they gave: 24mm 1.4, 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.4. Not to mention the updated 200 f2 and 70-200 f2.8 the mighty 14-24 f2.8…

  • https://www.louisdallaraphotoblog.com/ Louis Dallara

    Ahhh come on… your watching Sony kick your butt… WOW, now that’s a giant camera P7100 is a tank, how can I get one of those in my pocket???

  • yakker

    “I would say that the Coolpix P7100 meets the needs of SLR users that want something more compact”

    Interesting and disappointing. It would indicate that Nikon’s view is solely that SLR customers are concerned with features and controllability, not image quality.

    Fits in very well with Thom Hogan’s comments yesterday about “Throwaway Kitchen Sink”.

  • rhlpetrus

    This guy likely is not into what Nikon is really doing. I’m interested in ML, and actually will get one soon. The NEX7 got me interested, but price is a bit to much. Maybe a Panny G3, very nice IQ. Or a cheap Pen. So, Nikon better hurry, you’ll loose my money, it’s taking way too long, you are missing the boat.

    • Roger

      G3 is too big, might as well get a D5100. GF3 doesnt seem to have a good sensor. Pens also, poor sensors. NEX7 might be an interesting camera, if the new sensor is good.

      I’m not interested personally, but I’m thinking about maybe buying a ML as a gift to someone.

  • http://tumbleweed-092.livejournal.com Slow Gin

    I know nothing about marketing, so can’t talk wise arguments about overall view on that sphere. Maybe infantile naive romantic speaks in me, but I really can’t understand why every manufacturer in its niche tries to envelop every cell in the hive where it can’t beat older and more experienced competitors in the world of their own. One company wouldn’t leader of it all. There is an obvious reason for that: different products have too many subtleties to learn, know and experience. You can do finest acoustic guitars from the very best wood but this doesn’t signify that you can produce finest electric guitars. Trying to do everything will lead your mastery to demise. I am not dollar-head, I can’t understand why every company tries to earn all money of the world. Why so much greed? In the greed there is no good, everything driven by ‘take it all’-competition has mark of uselessness (like every Coolpix) or soullessness (like Porsche Cayenne and Panamera). Don’t try to argue that Nikon has to release those useless P&S to make a living. I do not believe that someone really interested in those crappy cameras. The only cause why they’re still selling is that potential client is too uninformed. If one wishes to make a choice, he will choose the best of what market can propose.

    Less is more: making something with narrow envelop will lead you to the best you can, you will concentrate on this. Nikon is renowned for its great DSLRs, why not abandon those crappy P&S or dreams about ‘take no prisoners’ new products from niches in which Nikon sadly will be pityful rabbit among hungry wolves? There are definitely good compacts in the market and Nikon will have nothing better to offer.

    • Jafu888

      From the President of nikon:
      “While the overall market for compact digital cameras grew only slightly compared with the previous fiscal year, Nikon posted a 23.9% increase in unit sales. “….
      …”Nikon’s market share grew in each region and Nikon rose to take the top market share for compact digital cameras in North America in the second half of the fiscal year.”

      I think they may know how to make compact digital cameras. We love them for their SLRs though.

      If companies stuck to there core we would not have: itunes, ipod, iphone, Yamaha bikes.

      • kyoshinikon

        or pixar movies

      • http://tumbleweed-092.livejournal.com Slow Gin

        I don’t get it, sorry. I prefer Cowon to ipod, PC to Mac, bicycles to motorbikes. :)

    • Andrew

      You are a marketer, so let’s talk marketing. Number one, Nikon markets Coolpix cameras because it makes money selling Coolpix cameras. Number two, Nikon needs to attract consumers at the low price point so that when these users become more sophisticated, they will prefer a Nikon DSLR cameras. And Number three, if you use Nikon DSLR cameras, you are likely to recommend a Nikon Coolpix camera to a friend or family member than a competitors product.

      • FBY

        Not true. I’ve always stayed away from the Coolpix range after having the 775 and 950. I prefer Panasonic for compacts.

      • http://tumbleweed-092.livejournal.com Slow Gin

        I have Nikon DSLR and I heartily recommend Canon S95 as good compact camera.

  • D700

    Omfg what a fanboy meeting here.

  • Larry_K

    Just like nobody ever asked for Full-Frame?

    Didn’t Henry Ford say people would have asked him for a better horse, not a car?

    There must be some innovative thinking over at Nikon somewhere, but I rarely see them exhibit any leadership in the industry.

    If Nikon would just take the money they spend on countless “Me-Too” Coolpix Cameras and Ashton Kutcher they could bring us a decent “Mirrorless System”.

    Nikon has made me spend more money on Canon than I care to recount.

    Larry

  • http://gearstudiomiami.com Elvis

    OK… Why do I want a Mirrorless camera???? I guess I’m late to the party but can someone please explain what the point is? Is it just portability?

    I can’t imagine these having anywhere near the quality of DX and especially FX cameras if they have such a small sensor. It seems to me from a couple minutes on google that this is just an evolution in p&s cameras. Oh and I guess you can change lenses??? Again, what’s the point if you need to carry around lenses anyway?

    … I just want a full frame Nikon with 1080p so we can stop fiddling around with adapters to use our Nikon lenses on the Canon 5D and 7D whenever we need to shoot video…

    • Ke

      It’s portability matched with a decent image quality.

      It’s not always practical to carry around a DSLR, but if you’re used to DSLRs then you’re going to dislike the IQ from even the best compact.

      The idea of mirrorless cameras is to sit between the two. Small cameras, choices of lenses, & decent enough image quality.

      Sony’s NEX cameras have APS-C sensors, which sounds good, but the lenses are really huge & for the most part mediocre.

      The Micro 4/3 cameras (from Panasonic & Olympus) get a fairly decent sized sensor (x2 crop) & the lenses aren’t too big.

      Pentax’s mirrorless was basically just a p&s (teeny-tiny sensor) with interchangeable lenses.

      Samsung have APS-C sensors in their mirrorless & their lenses are a compact size.

  • Jim

    Who wants more big heavy bulky DSLRs anyway. With the developments of sensors over the past decade, a 2.5 crop (or thereabouts) is the way to go.
    Just because I don’t hang out at shows asking about a Nikon mirrorless camera doesn’t mean I’m not wainting for one.
    I suspect many street photographers feel the same way.

    • Roy

      The P7100 meets needs? Watch it get killed by the Canon G13 when it comes out and by the m4/3. I ordered a Pen the other day to see if greater investment is worth it. I need good & light gear. Not all of us need the latest DSLR especially street photographers.

  • getho

    The lack of imagination they display at this level is turning me off them as a company. If they can’t innovate where its cheap too, how likely are they to at their pro level?

  • FX DX

    I am about to pull a trigger on D700. NR recommendation is “wait”. I feel like the day I buy D700, Nikon will announce it’s successor.

    • kede

      go buy it! :p

  • http://photo.marktim.ru Mark

    This message sent for Canon company management:
    What it means:
    “We at Nikon see you, Canons, as an equal power. We wan’t disrupt our market by price war. Let’s be careful. So let’s take mirrorless market synchronous, and wipe out every other company here.”

    Technically, mirrorless concept already meet some great challenges:
    - heating sensor with live view;
    - useful viewfinder;
    - body size;
    - body ergonomics;
    - lens size;
    - focus problem;
    - public acceptance
    - interference with DSLR market.
    Six years beginning with Olympus E330 those problems comes step by step and still almost do not have adequate solutions.
    So nikon and maybe Canon wish others experiment with something and then make great products itself.

  • Sam

    The Sony NEX-7 is the camera Nikon should have made, only cheaper.

    I know people complain the NEX system has big lenses but seriously you can’t fit any mirroless cameras in your pocket so you have to carry it in a bag anyway. And if it’s aimed at Pros I’m sure most won’t care about the size when they see how tiny and how little it weights compared to their DSLRs.

    • Frank

      I use an E-P1 with 17mm lens and I carry it in my jacket’s big pocket.

    • Scurvyhesh

      I think the nikon mirrorless will be more pocket friendlely than you think. Definetely better than that Phony. I have an origional olympus pen. Fits quite well in any of my jacket pockets. Will it fit in hipster jeans? No. But they dont use real cameras anyways. They use holgas. While im on that consider the fact that those shit plastic cameras that used to be in dollar bins are now selling for over 40 dollars+ and people buy them like crazy. I would bet the farm that there wasnt some marketing guy asking photographers for feedback.

  • http://photoartbymark.zenfolio.com photoartbymark

    someone is missing on the unemployment line, the nikon rep, sounds like a typical politician, talks around the subject, never answering your question

  • unohu

    I understand the appeal of a compact APS-C camera with a wide angle pancake lens, but as soon as you put a non-pancake on there, you might as well be using a “regular” camera like a Nikon D7000. And if you want to use your small, compact, mirrorless APS-C body for telephoto shots, just forget it.

    On the other hand, I’d really like to have a long telephoto lens with relatively wide aperture on a small sensor camera. For instance, a 400mm f/4 on a 2.5 sensor would be great to have if the camera is fast and has an excellent display.

    Large sensors are for wide angle lenses, small sensors are for telephotos.

    • http://gearstudiomiami.com Elvis

      Wow that’s a sweeping generalization… There’s much more to large sensors than just better compatibility with wider lenses. You missed quite a bit of info there…

      That being said, you make all the sense in the world when it comes to over physical size of these cameras once you put on a non-pancake lens. It basically defeats the point of a smaller size camera body.

  • P A Lau

    Hooray for Nikon for putting out 4 of the best dinosaurs ever.

  • Bjrichus

    Of course nobody wants a Nikon CSC… they see how much garbage the Coolpix line is (even if they do make gobs of cash for Nikon in the “Ashton” market), and feel that a Nikon CSC would be a waste of time and money to purchase. Leave that to everyone else Mr. Nikon and get on with thrashing the rest with top quality SLR bodies and lenses.

  • FBY

    How about this Nikon:

    Nikon DS-1
    Nikon S-series sized body with interchangable lenses
    (new Nikon DS mount, AF lenses are the size of Leica’s M-mount lenses)
    24mp APS-C/DX Sony sensor (same as the D400) but using the D3X (FX) sensor will be better! Full HD video etc.
    Street price with a 35mm/1.8 about the same as the Fuji X-100.
    Start with a selection of these primes: 21mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm and maybe a kit zoom just for fun.

    Sit back and watch the world devour your stock!

    • kyoshinikon

      Sold!

  • F100

    The new Sony NEX 7 is the future of digital imaging. How does Nikon not recognize massively popular cameras like the NEX or the fuji x100 a reason to produce their own mirror-less camera? By no means will these cameras make DSLRs obsolete, but they have the potential to dominate the amateur and prosumer market, as they do for example in Japan. Nikon simply needs to produce a smart APS-c (at least) sized sensor mirror-less camera with full compatibility with Nikon lenses and it would be curtains on the rest of the market. Nikon lenses are the company’s war-chest, there will always be plenty of interest in any camera they produce that can be strapped to one.

    • FBY

      Yes, especially if the adapter will let the AF work!

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/shigzeo/ shigzeo

    I suppose I am on the side that just wants a full-featured (solid body, metering, good OVF/EVF) camera that is compact and works with Nikon’s F glass. Not a D5000, not a D3000: something that does what the FM2 did for film.

    Nikon are not supplying that.

    Perhaps Nikon’s customers of old have just accepted that their cameras have gotten bigger and bigger. It isn’t a problem for them. I have only really used cameras for about 10 years and my FM2 is still the benchmark for size and performance for me.

    My D200 is way too large for what I want, but the D5000, white more compact, still works like a digital camera and not like an SLR.

    After Sony’s NEX cameras with included EVF, I’m thinking very seriously about forgoing Nikon’s next massive, heavy, car-owner-only DSLR for yes, a crop camera. That camera fitted with an adapter works as well as my D200 for all of my lenses, but hides behind my hands, doesn’t draw attention, and doesn’t weigh a tonne.

    Nikon may have a user base that wants large cameras and have no need of a mirror less camera. That, or their user base that valued high quality materials and performance in reasonable sized chassis, has already gone over to Leica, Sony, or m43.

    • yakker

      “That camera fitted with an adapter works as well as my D200 for all of my lenses”

      But unlike your D200, it won’t autofocus those lenses, will it? I agree, I’d like to get a NEX, too (though in addition to my massive Nikon), but the lens situation seems pretty bad.

  • http://ryanmlong.com ryanmlong.com

    Honestly, I’m looking at the NEX-7 and wishing I had something similar from Nikon. I would gladly replace my D300 with an EVIL body of that quality, or perhaps the X100. My D700 is used for the majority of my work, and I have film bodies for the rest, but a hi-res DX sensor in a crop body makes an excellent backup as well as an incredibly enticing option for travel and hiking.

  • Leaking Starfish

    A D5100 with a 16-85 is about the same size as most EVIL crap and more usable.

    • Scurvyhesh

      +5000 and with a way sharper lens too! Nice name btw! Lolololol

  • Sarge

    Wow Nikon. Just wow…

    As a professional photographer who uses Nikon gear, I’ve been waiting a looong time for a nice, small mirrorless APS-C sensor in a pocketable format. Now I own a NEX-5, and barring anything from Nikon in that sensor size, I’ll be upgrading to the NEX-7 as soon as it’s out.

    I use the Sony for my ‘walking around’ snapshots and movies of my 16-month-old son. I’d throw down for a superior sensor from Nikon in a heartbeat if it were also compatible with other existing Nikon lenses.

    Here’s the thing: even with Sony’s ‘big’ 18-200mm NEX lens, I can still cram the NEX-5 in my pocket. You can’t do that with a traditional DSLR body – none of them. With the NEX, you can, and that is critical when you’re chasing a toddler around, or doing any number of other activities. You get great photos, video and MOBILTY.

    You’re TOTALLY missing the boat, Nikon. I am disappointed.

    • ZoetMB

      The NEX series are fine cameras for what they are, but you’re fooling yourself if you think the combination of a NEX-type Nikon body that used Nikon F-mount lenses would be something you could put in your pocket. Sure, maybe you could fit the old AF 35 or 50mm (in a very large pocket), but no modern AF-S lens would even come close. Lenses have gotten gigantic over the years. I long for the days of my old manual focus tiny and lightweight Nikon glass and everything was metal back then.

      Besides, it probably wouldn’t work even if lens size wasn’t an issue because of flange depth and other focus issues.

      Also, a small body doesn’t have to be mirrorless. There are many engineering solutions to the problem. Olympus proved this years ago with the OM-1, a formidable competitor to Nikon film bodies back in the 1970s. Great functionality and ease-of-use in a much smaller SLR body (although certainly larger than a NEX). I’ve always said that I’d like the digital equivalent of the OM-1.

      Where I think Nikon has disappointed us (if the rumors are accurate) is in developing a mirrorless body with a very small sensor. But they’ve obviously chosen to go after the amateur market with this camera, not the pro market, which isn’t necessarily a mistake since the amateur market is much larger than the pro market.

      • Sarge

        My NEX-5 with the ‘huge’ 18-200mm fits in my pocket. Admittedly, I’m 6’2″ so my pockets are relatively large, but it’s not the lens that’s the problem – it’s the body being ‘taller’ than the lens profile.

        I could and would put my old Nikon 28mm f1.4 lens on a NEX-sized body, and take it everywhere.

        The biggest drawback of the NEX so far is the sloooow autofocus – though each lens is different. I’m hoping their new 24mm f1.8 focuses better in low light. It sounds like the NEX7 makes strides in this department as well.

        Anyhow, the biggest disappointment on the ‘Nikon rumors’ front is that the Nikon EVIL camera will use a much smaller than 4/3 sensor. This means you will never achieve the depth of field you get in a larger sensor at a given aperture. Therefore, the rumored ‘small sensor’ is an immediate ‘FAIL’ in my book.

        I don’t particularly want to like Sony’s products, but they’ve always been a leader in packing a lot into a small package, and they are decidedly in the forefront of imaging developments these days, so far as size is concerned.

        For skiing, hiking, boating, and general ‘chase your kid around’ use, pocketability is key. I’ll always have pro gear for the ‘planned’ photos, but otherwise the best camera you can own is “the one you have with you”. For me, that won’t be a Nikon, it seems. I still hold out hope, but news of late indicates Sony will be my ‘walkaround’ brand.

        PS – Lots of people stop me and ask about the NEX camera, and seem to be quite excited about it overall. Just FYI, if Nikon is reading…

    • Nukeon

      Hey Sarge,
      Get a friggin’ camera strap man.

  • theo martin

    “P7100 meets needs.”

    Agree, I already have it. Mine has just a slightly different name, it’s called Canon G12. It’s a great not tiny but small camera, I really love it. Impressive pictures if you shoot in RAW and squeeze out every bit, that you can get for IQ.

    BUT: I’m one of these (to Nikon) unknown ppl though, who would be happy to get hands on a (as small as possible) mirrorless with a few (as small as possible) lenses and an IQ, let’s say, 3-4 stops/times better than the G12/P7100. Somewhat at or close to m4/3 quality. (But the body/lens definitely not as big as a Sony NEX.)

    That kind of Nikon mirrorless could be fantastic for street photography, people, documentary, travelling, privat, HD-video etc. Could be a fantastic small p&s camera alongside a good FF/DX DSLR.

    In other words: I’m still waiting for a decent and small NIKON mirrorless AND the D800 or a refresh of the D700 – preferable within this year.

  • walker

    I feel I wasted my money on my first digital compact, a Coolpix 4800; I switched to a Canon SD and upgraded twice since with the newer Canon SD models. I won’t look back to Nikon for a compact as I am satisfied with my Canon.

    I now need to upgrade my D80 body and am looking for a body with dual SD slots. I’ve checked the D7000 but that body feels tiny, too tiny in my hands. I would settle for a prosumer D400 or even a pro D800, if it has the dual SD slots; I am sure those new models would offer the other features I am looking for.

    But a big question remains, will they come out and be available in time to fill for MY needs ? Or should I start looking elsewhere, at the competition ??

  • souelle

    For me mirrorless would be great if I could use my current F-mount lens, probably someone will tell me it’s technically impossible (distance from lens to sensor) or it’s useless to use a 70-200 on such a small camera, but I’m talking more about a 50 – 35 – 20 mm fixed lens, but if I need to buy a bunch of new lens, I don’t see the point of buying such camera, the P7100 will be enough for me

  • Leaking Starfish

    EVIL = Betamax

  • BenS

    Just a question .. anyone can answer .. Is MIRRORLESS the future of “DSLR” cameras ?

    • Nukeon

      You do realize that’s an oxymoron, right? If it does not have a mirror is no longer a D-SLR!
      To answer your question, mirrorless will be the future of professional photography when tacos without tortillas will be the future of Mexican cuisine.

      • BenS

        yes iknow thats why i put it in “” marks. Yeah what i meant was is Mirrorless the future of pro cameras ?

      • kyoshinikon

        We have chipolte :P

  • Nukeon

    I don’t get all the whining about getting a camera from Nikon that be like the Nex-7…get the Nex-7 if you like it so much. Why do you need it to have the Nikon logo on it, and annoy the rest of the photography world in the process? Even if Nikon gave you a clone of the Nex, you still would have to buy dedicated lenses, so go ahead and get your “supposedly-portable” soap-bar-with-a-huge-lens-fricko-camera from Sony. It’s available now, so what’s your problem?

    • Roy

      People want the large sensor in a smaller body with the quality of Nikon’s products at that price point. There are reasons for not wanting a Sony but wanting the type of camera for practical purposes.

  • Anand

    I called Nikon Sales line earlier today. I asked them if they had a Nikon adapter for Nikon lenses to fit on Sony! ….you could hear the “grrrrrrrrr” in the person answering. I told him that since you guys just came out with all the crappixes, I was seriously thinking of switching to Sony since they came out with such an amazing DSLR.

    She said, well sir, we normally come out with our DSLRs during fall. I told her..are we not in fall now? She said well mid to late fall!

    I told her to tell her supervisors that we are very pissed that they are focusing on crappixes and not attending to the pro DSLR market much. :P

    Felt good! Everyone should do the same ! haha

    • A

      Right now we are in late summer.
      Fall will start in September and last till November.

      • Anand

        Appreciate the clarification….I was being ‘sarcastic” to her you know. :)

    • m0m0

      maybe that’s why people got blocked from taking leave around this time.. so they have people that the customers can vent out on ^_^

  • Kingyo

    “I believe we have something for everyone at the moment.”
    ^^really dude? really?? Who are you? I wanna punch you in the face!!! > : (

    • BenS

      Calm down dude. Punching someone inthe face wont get you a new Nikon DSLR … it wil only get you to jail and you may even lose all you Nikon gear when the person sues you in court .

      Chill bro :) :) :)

  • borneoaddict

    mirrorless? my D40 still works fine….

    • Sictransit

      Amen to that!

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