Update: the ISO 3200 is not the maximum value but rather a comment from the photographer that ISO 3200 was very usable. Also, it was mentioned in the comments that this could be the replacement of the D300s (info sent by some native speakers – thanks).
This rumor came from the World Wide Web and I cannot vouch for its validity (thanks to everyone who sent that in).
The Russian nature photographer Igor Shpilenok has arrived in Kamchatka for 10 days and the rumor is that he will be testing a new camera from unidentified company (hint: he is a Nikon shooter, check his blog). The rumored specs are:
- 20MP crop sensor
- HD movie mode
- 10 frames per second
- single CF card slot
- working ISO: 3200
The source of this rumor (in English) has labeled this camera as D500, but this could be just a guess.
I am not sure if the camera on the picture is the actual test piece or just a reference photo (the Nikon logo is taped):
105 Comments
20MP ?? I don’t think so..
20 Mp at 10 fps os 200 million pixels per second.
1080p is 1920 * 1080 * 60 = 124,416,000 pixels per second.
That would explian the CF and not SDXC slot.
However- I feel (some with more knowledge should comment) like most of my DX lenses can’t resolve 20 MP APS-C.
Also, 3200 ISO isn’t all that impressive. That’s what, I stop better than the D300
HD is independent of fps.
From a filling the buffer stand point it is, but from a processing fast enough and dumping to the CF card, bits matter.
My point is that if the camera can process ten 20MP images per second, it should have the power to prcess sixty 1920×1080 images per second.
1080p is usually 24-30 fps. Unless it’s high speed full HD.
An important factor is also the compression format. If the H.264 format is used, compression rates can reach 1:50 in real world movies, whereas motion jpeg can yield around 1:20. The latter however being much less signal processing intensive.
Video has much more compression potential because the difference from frame to frame is typically very small. Often only small segments of the frame need to be updated, and sophisticated compression algorithms take advantage of this.
A decent artifact-free jpeg can be expected to be compressed to ca 1:10. So your figures are really much smaller.
ISO 3,200 makes sense as a “working ISO” to differentiate whatever this body will be called from the flagship D3 (and later D4) series. They have to do something to keep people buying the high priced stuff and something like the rumored camera would go a long way toward keeping people buying the “in between” kit.
Yes, the data path is critical. I have commented before that there seems to be a problem with the DSPs that both Canon and Nikon are using in regard to the ability to keep the frame rate up for higher resolution images. Notice the the Canon 5D MK II is 3.9 fps which is, more or less, the same as the D3x and about half of what the D3/D3s can hit. HD video makes similar demands on the data processing capability of the camera. Remember, it is just a glorified computer and has to process the data for it to be of any use, unlike good old film that merely had to regulate the exposure and such.
The 12mp DX chip in the current cams is rated at a max ISO of 3200 with a push 6400. The 7d looks to be almost the same sensitivity as the d300/d90 sensor, so 20mp at the same SNR seems doable. 10fps seems a bit ludicrous. Not impossible, but unlikely.
D3x = solid 5 fps + a couple extra MP. At four more mp per second and another frame a second, that means it’s outputting data at a rate equal to the 21mp at 6fps. So at least 6fps from Nikon’s current DSP tech doesn’t seem impossible.
I suspect video uses different DSP chips, so I don’t know that still processing has much to do with video processing
It is NOT the DSP (or really the ASIC) that is the limiting factor for framerate. It is the sensor readout speed!
To get 24fps video (or more), all current cameras skip lines. Some skip columns as well.
Next generation sensors will be able to bin pixels to allow the usage of every line of the sensor, increasing ISO performance by at least one stop.
Why do you assume they’re not already pixel binning? In fact, if you notice, all the dslrs that do 1080 are the ones with 18+mp sensors.
Sensor readout is definitely a limiting factor on some sensors. That’s definitely the case with the D3x sensor. Sony rated the sensor at around 6fps when they first announced it. But I guess that’s what I was saying in a round about way…the DSPs are not a limiting factor at the moment, and they’re the easiest tech to upgrade from a tech standpoint.
not to mention the useless 14bit canon since the DR is lower than 12bit nikons.
d3x at least has 16 bit processing, canon does not
Peter,
I think that the individual pixels write at pretty much the same speed. After that everything is about data processing and transmission. If there is a bottleneck at the sensor output, that is still a data transmission/processing issue. The entire data path is involved, not just the DSPs athough I do believe that there are inherent limitations in the DSP pipeline because every time we see a new generation of them the frame rate is improved.
The current video trend is stressing both the data processing capability of the cameras and the heat tolerance of the sensors. Heat build up issues have been addressed to a large extent, but are probably not entirely resolved.
Agreed, this seems very unlikely.
I think this is a fake.
why don’t you think so. It’s quite possible seeing as the 7D is in the same ball park and it’s no surprise that they are tinkering with 30mp FF sensors.
Oh look, who ‘s there.
What did you say ? ? ?
Man you ‘ve been the 12 MP (FF) preacher for weeks and you’ve been annoying, often offensive and insistent too. Now 20 MP (DX) is fine all of a sudden? Aren’t you a strange guy? Yes you are, but in a rather predictable manner. You are just a fanboy (I knew that physics, economics and all you are so very capable of, would change their inner nature as soon as Nikon finally gets down to it).
Who are we, the ones who dared to ask for more MP, before Kevin suddenly changed his mind and gave his fanboy permission … You really are strange.
“they are tinkering with 30mp FF sensors.”
You realize that a 20MP DX goes way beyond this, do you? 20 MP DX is equivalent to a FF pixel cramming of about 48MP.
20 MP APS-C. Woooohoooo….
If it’s true, phrases like ‘diffraction limited’, ‘densely packed DSLR sensors’ ‘sensor noise’ will no longer be uttered… Ha, ha…
iso3200 only? better be as good d3′s iso400
Maybe it’s NOT a crop sensor after all.
20MP sounds much more like the rumored D900.
It would certainly be easier to keep the noise level and such under control as a FF sensor in the 20-21 MP range. Indeed, a 12 MP crop sensor scaled up would probably be something more than a 20 MP FF sensor so it really should not be that big of a deal in terms of the sensor technology…and would provide a product to compete with the 5D MK II.
As a FF sensor, there would also likely be the option to shoot it in crop sensor mode when needed.
To hit the rumored frame rates, I believe new data processing hardware would be required. This area of development has lagged behind for some time now.
It also makes sense that the test photographer is a nature photographer rather than a sports/PJ type. That alone suggests something, to me at least, and he is not a “household name” like, say, John Shaw which would attract a lot of attention.
Here is hoping you are right. I will take a place in line to get one of these if it is a 20 MP FF body.
12Mp DX has the same pixel pitch as 27Mp FX. And 20Mp DX goes to 45Mp FX. I would expect 20Mp DX to be doable just based on the fact that the 7D has been out for a while now.
I think it actually is a 45 MP full frame sensor being shot at cropped mode.
If the images above do belong to the rumored camera, I don’t see a pentaprism viewfinder for FX fitting in that small body. Or Nikon has done something EVIL here…
i had a dream about that camera, some time ago… if it comes out true then i’ll consider mysef clairvoyant
And then you’ll pay me for more rumors
Next week’s lottery numbers whilst you’re at it please.
Nah. He is the person who won £84M in the recent EuroMillions draw.
That is the only way he could afford such a camera anyway.
It’s fiction.
still no full HD? I’m going canon.
Calm down. This is just a rumor!
Probably a fake at that…
go to the other camp.
noone is forcing you to stay here.
Why don’t you just go camcorder?
If you want to do motion pictures, there are already many, many options for you out there. Let Nicon focus on the quality of the stuff that are supposed to be in these camera bodys instead, ok?
who needs a 20mp without ISO6400?
you can probably extend to 12800 or 6400
working ISO 3200 probably means that it’s ISO 3200 is as clean as ISO 400 on a D90/D300 and you can just set it to ISO 3200 without worrying about noise.
ISO 6400 and above will be there.
crop body…. OTL
it’s a small Body… must be DX-size.
Please not an other DX camera, or else I’ll make the invisible man do the dishes for 6 months (and the laundry also).
First rumour on D500 nice
I think nikon really needs to hit a home run with their next release. I mean they have a new president, and their earnings are operating in the red… They need to attract buyers outside their loyal Nikon fanbase… But this is just me…
What, no built-in mp3 player? It won’t even wipe my ass? Screw that, I’m switching to painting where at least the canvas doubles as toilet paper.
TBH im ordering a FE-2 and a box of film and thats much more exciting then a dslr purchuse. Something about the simplicity of it, and the knowledge that twenty years from now it will be just as good as it is when i bought it and that those negatives will far outlive me. I wouldnt mind a mp3 in an slr though
Maybe its the new Fuji Camera… they take Nikon Lenss.. That’s just a guess observe the dial, it is chrome… 1 card, why would they go backwards in technology…
Exactly. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Now this will be an awesome pro level wildlife body. If this rumor is true I’ll be first in pre-order line.
I don’t buy that the next Nikon mid-range crop camera would be labeled as a D500. It would be a D400, so that there could eventually be a D500.
20MP also sounds like too many pixels for a DX sensor although a high pixel density might explain why the ISO only goes to 3200 (if that’s the max, as opposed to “working”) – the high density is generating noise at high ISOs, so anything about 3200 is considered unworkable.
So the question is: do photographers want more pixels and are willing to live with more noise or do they want fewer pixels, but less noise? On sites like this one, Nikon will be crucified regardless of the path they take. If they take the former approach, pixel peepers will post photos of brick walls with tons of noise. If they take the latter approach, they’ll be the “I’m leaving Nikon for Canon. It’s ridiculous that Nikon can’t produce sensors with more pixels” crowd.
And what’s with the black tape? If Nikon is testing cameras that aren’t “final”, why don’t they simply produce them without a model insignia?
If an EOS 7D with 18 MP and 1,6x crop is practical, why not a Nikon with 20 MP and 1,5x crop? Seems to be no big deal.
If they manage to keep noise on the same “old” D300 level i much prefer 20mp, specially for shooting landscape…..
Maybe the D400 is the 14MP low light DX monster and the D500 is the 20MP DX Canon ball buster?
Another point to consider is how he’s holding the camera, especially how his fingers after his index are positioned.
It looks like its either there’s a battery grip or the camera body is pro sized.
D500 with square sensor please!!!
It looks like D300 type body yet rather small in his hands.
well you know what they say about men with big hands…
You mean, a little like a 5D MK II? Some of the favorable comments about the MK II have always been the small size and lighter weight both in terms of handling and the weight one hauls around as a nature/landscape photographer.
Maybe it’s a Fuji, they’ve got much more megapixels than you really want to use.
Thanks God, I’m russian!! And can read his blog! ))) he he
Well….
Read it and comment, please!
Nothing special, comments are full of rumors. Nobody can say exactly what is camera in his hands. Video HD and crop, bla bla. His blog is just blog of photos of wild russian nature and anumal, nothing mentioned about the new camera itself.
Please feel free to ask me, if i need to translate smth from russian comments to English, i guess i do it better than google translator )))
Thanks!
Pro size. Yes. Pro body. No. The head seems like the one found in a D700. It doesn’t have the sexy head of the D3 series. 20 MP rumor sounds good. 1 MP less from the 5DII, is it possible that Nikon is trying to find the right balance with lower MP count but better video and ISO range between 100 – 1600? DSLR cinematographers will cringe when a Nikon body with similar video capabilities as to Canon’s 5DII but with Nikkor lenses. Dun dun dunnnn
Yeah thats what they said in ‘that’ past interview – the balance..
D500? BS
single Card slot but better video? BS
D300s has 2 slots, suuuure they will go back to one with better video…
D90 replacement?
@longtimenikonshooter
+s
Make that the D90s….ding, ding, ding, tell him what he’s won Johnny!
The camera pictured is smaller than a D300, no way is that a pro camera. It probably is the rumored D90 upgrade. If he has a battery grip on it, then it could be the new battery grip part number rumored on a couple of retail sites. When you consider the audience the D90 is targeted to, a 20MP, ISO 3200, CF card reading camera makes complete sense. Nikon knows that most consumers look at the pixel count first not knowing a damned thing about what compromises had to be made to get the astronomic pixel count. Besides, that lens looks like the 70-200 f/2.8 VR I or II, and the relative camera size suggests something smaller than a D300.
he is holding a 70-300 VR (not VR2) in his hands. It tells you right there it’s a DX camera. Given the size, it must be a D90 replacement.
Not the 70-300 VR (which is FX).
sorry it was a typo. what i intended to say was 70-200 VR1 lens.
Its not 70-300 VR but 70-200 VR. Its got the gold plate on top and its much bigger/longer than the 70-300.
The top of camera with the pop up flash looks quite small, on the other hand even the lens looks small in his hands, the guy surely got the biggest hands i’ve seen.
actually it looks like a camera
Nikon borrows their crop sensor from sony. Sony doesn’t have a 20MP sensor, so the rumor is clearly a fake. D700 has12 MP counts and shooting only at 5 fps. Image processor must be 3 times faster than current Expeed, and that’s not likely to happen in near future.
This may very well be likely.
Remember when Nikon said a while ago they would have a better balance between resolution and iso performance in their future models?
Canons top APS-C cameras have 18mp. Maybe Nikon wants to have the edge here, hence the 20mp.
I sure hop its not true. The reason ive switched over from canon was that i needed bettere image quality, not more pixels.
I don’t see anything in this picture to make me believe it’s a new body. It could be any existing body with tape on the front. Throw it on a foreign website that none of us can read and bam we have a new camera coming out.
What amazes me is that in 60 days time, mid july, Nikon would have probably released 2 new DSLR camera bodies and at the moment there are absolutely no rumors about these cameras. We dont know if they going to be DX or FX, we dont know mpx count, we dont know the model names. How on earth are they keeping it all under wraps?
@Vladi,
+1 to your observation on the gold plate on the lens. Owning the 70-200 VR I myself, I instantly recognized it, but not having seen the 70-300, I couldn’t deny longtimenikonshooter’s comments. Thanks for clarifying that one. I own a D3 and D300, my friend owns a D90, and guessing by the perspective and physical size of the camera body in relation to the lens, I would say the camera is probably DX in nature, smaller than the D300, and equal or larger than the D90. Thus we are most likely looking at the D90 replacement, or a Russian photographer that is pulling a great publicity stunt to get instant attention with a taped up D90. Now that would be funny!
I own the D90 and have used the D300s many times and I would say from the dial and general size compared to the massive lens that it is a DX00 sized body and not a DXX, could be something inbetween though although tbh its a weird blurry image from a russian website, I call that sketchy at best.
He forgot to take of the lens cap! HAHAHAAHA!
Why should he take it off in that situation?
I think it is a taped up D300? A DX D500, would that make much sense after the recent launch of the D300S? Might be it is a FF camera?
God!!!!let it be true……………….please,please,please…………….
the first interesting rumour in years
want one if it’s true
The actual page is missing words in google translator, but I tried other reputable translators and here are some better translated portions:
“Outwardly, this camera resembles its predecessor, with the letter S in the title”
“granted him a copy of a pre-production camera, not equipped with any logo or marking.”
Makes me think it’s the D90s and due out in a while.
Seeing is believing. I what until Nikon brings out the new line up of cameras next year. Rumors I don’t believe in, I prefer real evidences.
It can’t be true. Nikon already admitted they are not in the megapixel war with Canon. They have said they will not increase MP at the cost of IQ. A jump from 12 -> 20MP is a knee-jerk reaction to the 7D.
Also, such a next gen successor to the D300 won’t come this year. D400 will probably be around 16-18MP.
Now, if this was really a “D700x” FF DSLR, I can see 20 MP as being reasonable spec while still maintaining same or slightly better IQ as the original D700.
They did say though they are looking for a better balance though in future between resolution and high ISO performance.
Nikon did also say back in February that they will be looking at expanding their DSLR range for the enthusiast, perhaps this is it?
I’m glad to finally hear a new Nikon camera body, this as always be rumors and eventually confirmed, have been told so many different types and models in recent months is now difficult to believe that this is true. But good news, if confirmed only thing I dislike is ISO 3200 looks very little compared to the 102,000 of the d3s, and we also have to do the selling price if you are around 5,000 euros as the latest models will be a disappointment, at least for me it is not affordable, and I’ve been waiting nine months to change my DSLR.
Sounds great (!) in most aspects, except ISO 3200 is just okay and for that gosh awful crop sensor (DX). Thanks Nikon (!) but NO THANKS as I will not buy another DX camera … one is enough. How many prosumer cameras do we really need anyway?
I think this just a fake.
1st 20 MP in DX its not nikonlike.
2nd Only more MP? Not a better ISO? Thats not nikonlike too!
Every Nikon DSLR generation was a upgrade. A better image quality, a little bit more ISO and if its possible, more MP. The image quality has priority – so why nikon wants to use a 20MP sensor with the same quality of ISO? I cant imagine that Nikon wants to get down on the same Level like can-not … aaam .. Canon
In late August / early September Canon will come out with the 21mp 7D Mk II and in spring 2011 with the 21mp 600D. So any new DSLR should be 20mp or more to be competitive against Canon.
cell phones also have 14mp. This doesn’t mean they are good cameras. Canon can do all it wants about megapixels and it doesn’t mean their cameras are going provide better quality. It is the only means canon has to marketing their products is pushing resolution as they can’t do anything else.
That will change, Kevin. At least you will change your mind as soon as Nikon makes cell phones, am I right or am I right?
I’d buy one as long as IQ of stills and film between ISO 100-1600 does not turn out to be a huge disappointment …
… but I don’t believe in this camera to happen. Not as 20MP DX, not being named D500, nor with 10FPS. I still hope some improvement will happen and be worth buying whatsoever.
Further more I am astonished by the total lack of “12 MP is already it”-comments, combined with a good amount of offenses to all the demanding and waiting ones.
Where are you guys, expelling others from here and showing MP/1080-lovers the door to Canon? Your sudden absence is strange after your violent domination till yesterday, isn’t it?
P.S. Don’t get discouraged so easily. It’s just a rumor and you can still send people away – all the ones who dare to have some expectations towards Nikon.
You are cynical. Go to Canon now ! ! !
(Just kidding. I’m astonished about the almost perfect absence of certain comments myself).
20MP crop sensor – I am satisfied with the current 12MP
HD movie mode – whatever, not interested in film
10 frames per second – sounds way to high (although it would be great)
single CF card slot – a D300 replacement?
working ISO: 3200 – sounds way to low
I do not know what to make of this one. I think big question with Nikon now is “WHEN?” and then the “What?”
I think they need 2 new DSLRs, mostly something to counter punch the Canon 5D Mark II, and secondly something to counter the new Canon Rebel T2i (550D).
The D700 move, I still like my idea of something with more megapixels but keep the present D700 around for a while. The new model (D800/D900/D700x???) for about $2700 to $3400 depending on its specs and the D700 down in price some ($1999 would be a magic number but probably a bit low for Nikon’s taste).
To battle the Canon T2i (550D): I see Nikon has a number of moves, it could just come out with a D5000s and add an audio in connection for a microphone and keep the price where the current D5000 is and kick Canon’s ass with price point. The other move is to had the audio in connection to the D90 along with the D5000. That would help and be a cheap short term move.
I think price point is too often overlooked. I think Nikon’s D3000 does well against the lower end Canon Rebels because of price. Maybe a third update along with the 2 listed above would be to give the D3000 the D5000 sensor and keep out the video but keep the camera with the 18-55mm for under $500. Especially of the new D5000 and D90 get more megapixels?
Ok, done rambling, now may I please have a D800?
Mark
I was shopping in Costco yesterday, and I saw many boxes of D90. Instantly I know its replacement will be soon. Last time they did the same thing with D60.
if this camera rumor will become reality, I would buy it instantly, no matter whether it would be a D90 or D300s replacement.
Me too!
Hi,
I do speak russian, and the google translation of the 3200 iso comment that created so much excitement seems a little inaccurate – what the russian version really says is a very passing comment (that Igor might have dropped):
– the sensitivity 3200 is quite workable
and NOT – working sensitivity is 3200, so there is no comment on higher iso capability, just his feeling about this particular one. One might imply that it would be the last usable iso in his opinion, but there is always the point of being usable for what (2mx2m print, journal, blog ?) and what is he comparing to (D3s, D300, film ?).
Also there is a little passage that suggests this would be the successor of the D300s.
Thanx Leon.
Thanks Leon! Great to hear that this would be the successor
It’ll be nice if ISO3200 is good enough for big prints.
To my mind, this camera is made of dreams!
Why shoud Nikon place a D 500 in the market? Which camera would it replace? The D 300S? or the D 700? The replacement of the D 300S should be a D 400. It´s the camera being dicussed for over 20 month by now. But nothing happend!
Wasn´t there already a D 400 presented in a RUSSIAN magazine in the end of 2008? This rumor was published at NR too, but it turned out to be wrong.
A phantom camra, but not real.
And I´m afraid the D 500 mentioned above will be the phantom following.
There is nothing known about a 20 MP sensor in deveopment of Nikon or Sony.
To my mind, Nikon will release their first camera with a DX-sensor of more than 12MP in 2nd half of 2010. Maybe on the Photokina. It will be Sony´s 14 MP sensor, augmented by Nikon´s great software.
And I´m afraid, that 20 MP Nikon-sensor wouldn´t come out before 2015…
Up to this date, I´ll keep on dreaming on this “russian” D 500 (but if it really became reality, I would by it; the sooner, the better!)
Actually I am also getting the impression that the name D500 might be what the russian blogger came up with to name it somehow (unknown nikon camera is not a good search tag). He says (and later apologises for it) Igor was angry to see the guy trying to take his picture with the camera, also I checked the blog, the guy is from Kamchatka, and Igor loves to shoot bears there. Now he might have made the mistake of trusting a fellow local fotog (that ruined his nda), so far it seems plausible.
Personally (my opinion only, based on the experience with the cams) I expect 2 successors, to D300s(is really too old a sensor) and D700 (good but subpar to D3s), based on the new sensors that nikon puts in D3x and D3s.
And if I would go dreaming… my dream camera nikon has not made yet, but is getting close:
F6 form factor (large prism like D3 with no vertical handle and no flash), at least 18 megapixel (even Leica does it :p), 1080p movie and D3s noise performance. Let it be the next D800
Attention! Rumors says about 20MP camera, but not about D300s successor.
One of the post author’s additional replies states that this camera is the successor of the D300s successor (D400, 14MP).
Here’s the link: http://community.livejournal.com/ru_d70/2369238.html?thread=64220886#t64220886
PS. I speak Russian.
14MP … barf and no way they get my money for that measly bump in MP. If it isnt at least 18, I am not even remotely interested.
thanks, this rumor is a little bit confusing – it is now clear if all those data/specs are speculation of the photog. actually leaked them
Is Zoetmb the only one speaking sense?
After the D300 comes the D400 not a D500, otherwise there is no logical progression.
Secondly, as for the spec, as an upgrade to the D300s it will be DX, it’ll have more than 12MP, better iso performance, and full HD video. Otherwise it’s not an upgrade is it!
Common sense would dictate it should be a reasonable increase in pixels so 18MP would be fairly logical, and realistic in comparison to competition i.e. canon. 6400iso, 7/8fps (possibly 8/9fps if processing and write speeds are up to it). CF and SD slots.
It’s all common sense really, if they produce anything less then it won’t be an upgrade, and if they push much more then there will be too many technilogical compromises with noise, and there will be less room for upgrades in the future which makes no business sense!