More Nikon D850 pictures leaked online: RAW and JPG options, size comparison with the Df

The next Nikon D850 leaked pictures comes from this dpreview forum discussion (direct link to pictures):

Here is the description in case the images get removed:

The NEF options show on the picture were:

  • RAW L (large): 8256 x 5504, 45.4MP
  • RAW M (medium): 6192 x 4128, 26.6MP
  • RAW S (small): 4128 x 2752, 11.4MP

The JPG/TIFF options shown on the second picture were:

  • Large: 8256 x 5504, 45.4MP
  • Medium: 6192 x 4128, 25.6MP
  • Small: 4128 x 2752, 11.4MP

The third picture was a side by side comparison between the D850 and the Df (front view).

The fourth picture was also a side by side comparison between the D850 and the Df (side view) - you could clearly see the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth logos above the mic, headphones and HDMI ports. The AF selector had two visible positions: AF and M. The BKT button was in the usual location under the pentaprism.

Like the new Nikon D850 Facebook page and join the growing Nikon D850 Facebook group for a more detailed coverage of the upcoming announcement.

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  • outkasted

    im first! yaaay

    • Ric of The LBC

      I’m first on your first

      • Kevin Pan

        I’m first on your first

        • HotDuckZ

          I’m not first but my p… is biggest!!

          • masterac

            replying to this one would make me a macho so i wont.

          • outkasted

            I love Big P….y. So fun to eat. Wait …you are female right?

          • framedrelay

            hahaha!

    • Who cares, seriously?

      • Ric of The LBC

        animalsbybarry apparently.

    • animalsbybarry

      No you are not
      To be the first comment you must actually make a comment…you did not, you merely proclaimed yourself first

      • outkasted

        im still first though..sore loser #hater

        • animalsbybarry

          Again you are mistaken

          Look at my previous comments…. I am often first but do not boast about being first…. I simply make the first comment no differrent than any other commment

          If you do not make a comment it is not the first comment…
          And if you (or I ) do make the first comment it has no more or less significance than any other comment

      • outkasted

        indeed somebody gotta take the crown

      • Tags

        animalsbybarry you have to relax man…

      • Tomo Bagaric

        I think outkasted is rightfully credited as the winner of whatever this is…

      • silmasan

        The hell am I even commenting on this … 🙂

        But technically anything you’ve successfully posted at Disqus commenting system counts as a “comment”.

        • Brett A. Wheeler

          I have a riding lawn mower. (Old DIRECTV commercial)

    • Brett A. Wheeler

      The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

  • Looking better and better.
    I wonder how the auto focus calibration will perform.

    • toyotatundra

      Forget about it!

    • outkasted

      would be great if they improved the focus detection for manual focus lenses.

    • Jo We

      Is this for real? It’s shipping with the Nokton?! I want that lens so bad!

    • brian valente

      re: best way to have 4k, it depends on the tradeoffs. The best image would be using the full frame sensor and binning or interpolating down. But that kind of data read would probably result in increased rolling shutter effect. Binning might be the best approach. Line skipping would definitely not be a good approach, nor would crop frame

    • Todd Peterson

      Based on prices that leaked to other countries they are saying $3599.

      • Azmodan

        Damn good value if true, by that pricing D5 should only be $3999 at most.

        • Andrew

          The pricing on the D5 is dependent on the market. The smaller the customer base, the higher the price. It is called economies of scale.

    • Proto

      DF looks cute in comparison

    • The best option would be storing 30 RAW images per second and converting to 4K in post. Anything else is a compromise.

      The sensor resolution is 4.3x 1920 pixels wide, so the simplest binning strategy would be to bin 4×4 pixel (8×8 sensel) arrays and then encode as H265 (which supports expanded dynamic range) or similar and collect the extra few pixels to the side as overscan (or discard them and treat the “full sensor read” stuff as “close enough”. In any event, uncompressed video out is what serious video people will want.

      Bicubic scaling by a factor of 1/4.3 just seems painful.

      • which is why they should’ve made it 39MP (1920×4)x5120 pix, and taken the 4 k 16:9 crop from that. ho hum.

        • Graham Blaikie

          Add a margin for on-sensor Electronic VR.

      • Ron Benson

        You can do it with industrial cameras. I’ve seen up to two fiber optics links per camera. The downside is that you have to implement your own autofocus system.

  • Fly Moon

    Niiiice

  • Ric of The LBC

    Does it have a flippy AI tab???????? That is a non-Ai lens. Maybe it’s factory Ai or Ai’d?

    Edit: Ok that’s not a Nikkor. I got really excited.

    • VCL van der Drift

      If you want open AI you should go to Elon Musk.

      • Apparently he is scared of them too.

        • VCL van der Drift

          Or one of the few that’s aware of the many possibilities of AI. Something with vectors? 😀

          • silmasan

            They might one day refuse to pass butter, that’s what we’re all afraid of.

          • Ande Notos

            Elon Musk is a hack.

            • VCL van der Drift

              Can you explain why you think he is a hack?

            • Ande Notos

              Well he’s not REALLY a hack, I’m not sure if he’s doing it on purpose, but he says some pretty inane claptrap stuff every once in a while.

            • VCL van der Drift

              Most high achievers or people with a head full of idea’s have a weird way of talking or humor. Let’s not focus too mutch on what people say but rather on what they accomplish.

            • Ande Notos

              Yeah, but he talks nonsense a lot with the purpose of gaining attention and succeeding no matter what. I mean the Hyperloop was ridiculous. His views on AI are pretty questionable as well and many experts in the area have objected to them. He sometimes is a hypocrite as well.

            • VCL van der Drift

              Maybe this is not te place to discuss Elon Musk’s views but the hyperloop in combination with the boring company could actually work and decrease the amount of travel time. The view on AI that it could be dangerous and should be monitored by the government or a global institution is based on the problem when one advances more than the other and can no longer contain the problem. When open software of AI is used every body can advance but also stop potential threads. Even Stephen Hawking is saying AI is the biggest possible thread to the humans in this lifetime. After all if you ask a computer the human life is not logical at all. The best example is the potential to reroute an airplane and send a anonymous text to a rebel that than shoots it out of the air. Only 2 hacks needed to potentially start a war.

              We are all hypocritical and willing to push into extremes to realise our believes. Only thing is that he is in the spotlights and we are not. When Hollywood seleberties talk no more sense then dory from finding nemo we accept it and still adore them. Why should it be different for someone with a brain? I’m not here to defend elon musk or any other person. I do believe advancement in innovation is the only way for humans to continue to exist for a longer period of time. That’s why i’m always interested into believes of others why they criticise people like elon musk that make more innovative advancement than than we have seen for a long period of time.

              Still looking forward to the d850 to stay on topic 😀

            • Ande Notos

              Well, yeah, I don’t want this to get completely off topic, but the issue with the hyperloop is that it’s almost impossible to make, greatly impractical and potentially very very dangerous. And yes, Stephen Hawking kind of agrees with Musk on AI, but he isn’t an expert on AI either. But it’s very ironic how Musk tries to implement self driving technology on Teslas, in the same time he talks about the dangers of AI. Self driving cars pose many many issues themselves.

              What I dislike with people like Musk talk nonsense as opposed to Hollywood celebs is that they’re actually viewed as very knowledgeable and important etc., so when they say something that is nonsense people will immediately take it much more seriously. It’s fine for a Kardashian to say bats are blind, but when DeGrasse Tyson said bats are blind he messed up. That’s all, I don’t really have much against Musk, it’s just that some of his actions annoy me, he feels… a bit manipulative.

            • Ron Benson

              They’re building an Hyperloop in the UAE between Dubai and Abu Dhabi. First full scale commercial unit.

  • Aphidman

    As long as Nikon is on top of build quality issues for it, this sounds like it will be a landmark model for them.

    • akkual

      AFAIK there was no major build quality issues on Df, D500, D810, D4, or D5? So mostly the issues have been on prosumer bodies.

  • Eric Calabros

    Si its 45.4 nit 45.75 in Chinese slides

    • tomskyphoto

      Maybe 45.75 MP physical resolution and actually 45.4 MP used/recorded?

      It’s pretty common with all camera manufacturers that the outside border pixel lines of the sensor are masked as they’re more prone to electro-optical readout errors.

      • Eric Calabros

        Why they should talk about total pixel numbers in promotion slides instead of effective pixel number?

        • tomskyphoto

          Because it sounds more impressive?

          They’ve done it before – just look at the old D800 or D810 presentations. Other manufacturers as well. You’ll even find the “effective” and “total” pixel counts in their officially published specs.

          • masterac

            depend if the missing pixel serve has stabilisation….i know that number is too small, but man are allowed to dream

        • Camera companies have gotten themselves into a habit of lying about pixels and can’t not do it. They refer to “dots” in displays and count each pixel as 3 or 4 “dots” and then count each sensel as a pixel in sensors and advertise the sensel count of the silicon vs the number of sensels that are actually used. Everyone does it and there’s no law against it so they lie.

          It’s a lot like the days of CRT TVs and monitors where a “15 inch” display had a 15″ diagonal tube, of which the image was 13″ (and Apple, for years, correctly quoted the image dimension and was ridiculed for selling overpriced smaller displays until it gave in and started lying like everyone else).

      • silmasan

        Just wrote it somewhere else:
        A7R II = 43.6 total mp, 42.4 effective, actual file 42.177
        D810 = 37.09 total mp, 36.3 effective, actual file 36.153

        (just for reference Sony calls their A7R “36.4 mp” effective)

        Marketing roundup!

        So I guess D850 total mp could be 46-47, “effective” would be the 45.75 magic number, actual file/image 45.4

    • Tomo Bagaric

      If this is true – I’m not buying it! I want all the pixels that Chinese people know about!

  • Eric Calabros

    I’d like to know what kind of pixel binning (or skipping) they used to reduce the horizontal resolution by exactly 1.3x

    • El Aura

      The RAW M and RAW S options are downscaled 14-bit no-WB-applied bitmap images (ie, not Bayer anymore). In essence what a linear DNG is. The only way you can bin Bayer raw data is by a factor of two in each direction. Everything else needs de-mosaiccing and standard downscaling.

      • Eric Calabros

        No bayer means more than one data value for every pixel?

        • El Aura

          Apart from lossy file formats, in practice we either deal with Bayer data (or Fuji’s offshoot of it) or with bitmap data where we have full colour information for every pixel. In that sense, no-Bayer means three colour values per pixel (of course, you can have even more than that, CMYK has four values).

      • Husselang

        Does that mean you get virtually the same image quality, except for the loss in resolution?

        For timelapse in particular it would be nice to have a reduced size RAW option.

  • I wonder if anyone can tell by the file size if these Small and Mediums will be true RAW

    • Eric Calabros

      How it can be NOT cooked?

      • Sorry Eric, what do you mean

        • Eric Calabros

          I mean I don’t understand how they can extract a smaller raw without altering/processing the data in some ways

          • Thank you, can the camera not just process a new RAW instead of extracting one?

      • HD10

        Pixel binning could make these true RAW with benefits to SNR, DR, etc.

        • Eric Calabros

          How you do binning without applying white balance?

          • HD10

            By combining the adjacent pixels without demosaicing and saving it as a RAW file. You give up resolution but gain better SNR, DR and still have all the flexibility of a RAW.

            • El Aura

              Calculating an RGB triplet by taking a 2×2 pixel Bayer set and averaging the two green values, you reduce the file size by only 25% (before you had four values from the four physical pixels, afterwards you have three values, red, green, blue) while reducing the nominal resolution by a factor of four.

              And this, btw, is a de-facto demosaicing, and a rather crude one. Applying a visually lossless compression of the raw data gives you bigger file savings with better IQ and more resolution.

            • HD10

              It’s a bit more complicated than that, specially when dealing with artifacts. Check out the link I posted above.

            • zzzxtreme

              Better snr? That’s interesting

          • E Jacob Cornelius

            It’s all just numbers.

          • HD10

            This may be helpful but could also be a rabbit hole depending on your level of interest:

            https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1687-6180-2012-125

            • Eric Calabros

              Thanks

            • El Aura

              In the end you cannot beat physics. If binning on the Bayer level + modified image processing results in better IQ (than conventional capture with no binning), that same IQ could have been achieved by the raw doing exactly the same math that in the case of binning was applied in two steps (first step inside the camera, second step in raw converter). And in conventional capture, the raw converter has a wider choice of options since the first step isn’t baked in yet.

              To some degree, this could be simply called a lossy compression (where the part lost is resolution mainly). And I am not convinced that is the most effective lossy compression possible.

    • This is my biggest question for this camera! 25MP would be PERFECT for me!

      • Antonio

        Also for me but it would mean a 25 Mpx sensor. However Nikon went the other road and increased the Mpx count.

        • Having 4 sensor dots to gather more light data for a single pixel as opposed to a single sensor dot would be better for SNR and DR no?

          • Antonio

            That’s the theory behind binning at the capture level but this process seems to involve some problems unsolved til now, namely artifacts.

            And, having a sensor that can switch to multiple options of grouping and ungrouping the photo sites seems to add complexity to the process.

            Therefore, there are some proposed post-capture ideas but for a non-expert like me it looks like a processing work that goes beyond the real RAW concept, involving software decisions and eventual post-processing limitations like D810 small raw WB.

            Maybe future solutions end up offering an image quality good enough to justify the flexibility trade-off making it more a question of naming but it seems it will always be a “cooked” solution in comparison to the RAW file concept.

      • JoCarpenter

        I love my megapixels! Hell yeah! Why not? You can export to any size you want! Storage is cheap… even in the cloud. Bring me the details, the DR, I love it! Nikon rocks.

        • I love Megapixels to, but I’m a wedding photographer, and for a while I had 2 D800’s and so did my second shooter. With 4 D800’s on a wedding day we would easily make 120-160GB of data PER wedding, and I do about 40 weddings a year…Yes storage is cheap, but is very unnecessary to have 2,000 pictures of drunk people attempting to dance shot at 46 Megapixel, it’s just a complete waste. Again, storage is cheap yes, but the more MP the longer it takes to load/ render ect. so when you have to go though 4-5,000 pictures a week, it just gets old.

          • JoCarpenter

            you make perfect sense. I wonder if storage and speed issues will catch up to cameras like the d850… I would love to have my nef files in the cloud and not have to worry about storage and backup. Give us faster internets!

    • Antonio

      IMHO, true RAW means to get a file with the capture from ALL fotosites of the 46 Mpx sensor. Smaller files mean discarding part of the information, compress it aggressively (and if its lossy compression also discarding a part) or as with the previous case of smaller ” RAW” by Nikon also loosing flexibility of WB post-processing adjustment.

      • Thanks so is it impossible to do then?

        • Antonio

          We can never say they can’t come with a solution that keeps all the flexibility of the RAW files resulting from the full sensor capture in the future but for the time being it seems that “cooked” instead of RAW is all we can expect to get.

          • Ben Brayev

            are you talking about the medium/small raw options?

            • Antonio

              Yes but please read my previous post (above) on this issue and I don’t think the D850 medium/small options be other than “cooked” solutions that will probably follow the same as the one of D810 in terms of white balance.

  • tomskyphoto

    Still love the compact cuteness of my Df and its ability to digest any kind of F-mount equipped glas since 1959. I know, it’s been accused of being a fatso compared to the old analog Nikon film SLRs but for digital it’s really nice and small.

    If Nikon should ever make a Df2 I just hope that they can again find a sensor that performs so well balanced in regards of resolution with older glass, (lack of) high ISO noise and color rendition like that D4 sensor.

    • Ric of The LBC

      Amen

    • fanboy fagz

      the df

      -overpriced
      -under-performs
      -under-specced
      -overpriced.

      NR had teasers and people were going crazy. then the specs were leaked and the comments were “eh, lets see the price”

      $3000 announced

      everyone went flaccid.

      • tomskyphoto

        You repeated yourself and have probably never used a Df in the wild.

        Won’t argue with you at all, just have a look at B&H’s customer reviews of the Df by the people who “actually” own it. I’d call that a smashing success if I were the manufacturer of that said camera.

        A failed – “flaccid” – product would also mean massive discounts and fire sales of the unwanted things. Hasn’t really happened yet with the Df and even the refurb ones are usually sold out quickly.

        • Ric of The LBC

          Harumpf!

        • fanboy fagz

          of course I repeated myself. you dont think it was on purpose?

          now dont assume cause youre looking like an asz. as a wedding protog, ive handled many cameras from other protogs when we work in weddings. just to try them out. I dont need to spend more then 5 minutes to know how good it is. I dont need to assess a picture 20 minutes to tell if its good or not.

          garbage camera. overpriced slow af no video crap setup of buttons. and overpriced. this photog we work with who is a gear freak buys anything released. thats how he feels hes a great photog. he knew he made a mistake. he just like the idea that it looked retro and thought hed look cool with it.

          with so many fake reviews and people paying for positive reviews, I learned that what you read on the net should first NOT be trusted and after its been proven then believe. exactly the opposite of naive people. on the internet no one tells the truth and everyone has some interest with their comments.

          your point on price is irrelevant since nikon still sells the garbage 17-35 AFS ( a 20 yo lens) for more then the 14-24 AFS

          https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/186250-USA/Nikon_1960_AF_S_Zoom_Nikkor_17_35mm.html

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHNm54U1nQ4
          exactly my thoughts-garbage

          • Ric of The LBC

            Why the hate, what did the Df do to you?

            • Maybe one fell on his head.

            • fanboy fagz

              Mind your business mommy

            • Ric of The LBC

              Ditto

          • tomskyphoto

            Blah, blah, conspiracy BS abound spiced with a lot of hate and ad hominem attacks. Guess who makes that look bad? Not me little asz for sure…

            If someone wants to spin the market they do it Sony style buying bloggers, youtubers, etc. wholsesale – not by paying puny customer reviews on a vendor’s website.

            And Kai? Yup, the most knowledgeable reviewer out there together with Ken Flopwell. OK, Kai got more points for entertainment value but that’s about it.

            And not all photography is about weddings.

          • EarlFargis

            “As a wedding photog…” says it all.

            The Df isn’t for pros as I’ve pointed out many times in the past. Nikon makes plenty of great gear for pros. Leave the Df to amateurs such as myself.

            I get you don’t like the Df for your needs but that doesn’t make it ‘garbage’. Traveled with mine to Ireland recently, took thousands of shots, and super impressed with its low light and dynamic range. It’s also a lot easier for me to edit Df RAW files than my D800’s.

            As someone else mentioned, the Df is the rare body Nikon never saw the need to discount. Speaks volumes. Wish it weren’t so because I was forced to buy a lightly used one.

            • fanboy fagz

              If you make a camera with serious low light capabilities include a proper af system. Enough said. Shooting in lowish settings doesnt say jack shet about the camera. Its lacking underspecced and overpriced.

              Like i said nikon sells the 17-35 afs for more then the 14-24 afs so makes your point moot. They have no need to lower the price because it isnt in demand and they want to get money back for the r&d they put in. Thers no rush to sell. Many cameras dont xome down in price for many years. Your comment is nonsense. It was on sale for a short while i believe. Or maybe it was grey.

              The camera was done half assed.

            • Can you please change the last part of you disqus name? Several readers have already complained about it. Thanks.

            • fanboy fagz

              those have the option of blocking me so they dont have to see my comments. ive done it with some users here who I dont like reading their posts. easy to do. go into my profile>block user.

              I did change it btw. it was fanboy fags. and changed it to fagz. and this is to all fanboys. not specific at all to nikon. let me just keep a low profile for a while to weather fanboy storm. god forbid someone talks negative about nikon. and with the financial situation theyre at im not the only person.

            • The problem is with the “faq” part, not with the “s” or “z” – this is nothing personal, I have asked several other readers to change their profile names – unless you have an agenda using this name, it should not be a problem changing it, right? And if you have an agenda, this is the wrong place to express it.

            • Aldo

              I dont care for your nick but it’s a little silly imo. We are all fans of ‘something’. The food you eat, the car you drive (or wish to drive), the women you like (or men) etc. Basically the only reason you are an individual is because you are a fan of something… even the way you think falls into a certain category nowadays. So you see, you are also just a fanboy =).

            • Proto

              PhD in philosophy for Aldo : )

            • Aldo

              Lol

            • Proto

              “fanboy-machinegun” can be appropriate? : )

            • Spy Black

              How about homo fanboy?…

            • John

              hey Peter, the links up top for the 850/df comparisons and the other 2 aren’t working

            • They probably removed them.

            • ITN

              There is a compromise between how much light gets in the viewfinder and how much goes to the AF sensor. Bright, high quality viewfinder and the best low light AF are conflicting requirements in a DSLR.

            • Graham Blaikie

              The (relatively) limp 39-point AF was a deal breaker for many. Hopefully they use the D750 AF Module (which focuses very well in low light) or possibly the D7500 AF module, for Df2.

        • success ≠ good

          It missed a lot of boxes that could have easily been ticked. They gave it mediocre (horrid IMO) AF, but no MF focus aids like split image or micro-prism (available or not, it didn’t ship with an appropriate focusing screen).

          It’s a fancy package, but the hardware was nothing special. It could have been! It was a wasted opportunity.

          • tomskyphoto

            The sensor and the control layout are what makes it special – the sensor for the IQ and general image characteristics and the control layout for the ease of use akin to old Nikon film SLRs; i.e. the possibility to recognize most important camera settings such as ISO, shutter speed and exposure compensation at a glance, and most of these even with the camera not being powered.

            As for “success ≠ good” that’s a non starter and just as much opinion as mine when I say I like the camera for that and that reason. There’s no camera to please everyone – even the 850 won’t be able to do that – but the Df seems to have checked a lot of “good” boxes with quite a number of buyers.

            However, I have to agree with your statement about the missing MF focusing aids. That was pretty cheesy on Nikon’s part, especially as it isn’t exactly rocket science to put a proper MF screen into the Df (did it with mine).

        • FountainHead

          I’ve never even seen a Df in the wild. Did see one with the lenscap on at Starbucks, with the “special edition” 50…

      • EarlFargis

        Bought my Df used at ~1/2 the MSRP. Love mine, particularly the retro controls.

        That said, while 16 megapixels has never let me down I would like to an update with bump to 20 keeping up with the D5.

        While the D850 looks like the ultimate beast and I was impressed with my D800, I haven’t picked up my D800 in over a year and I haven’t missed its 32 megapixels.

        • Brent Rawlings

          Hypothetically, if a D750 and a DF could be found for the same price, which would you choose from a high ISO, low noise perspective for portraits? Video is not important.

          • EarlFargis

            I’ve never used a D750 but have no hesitation recommending a Df for low noise. Noise isn’t an issue I’ve had with my Df.

            That said, I’m an amateur so I don’t put it through the same paces as a pro. Also, the big difference is going to be the retro control. It was a critical selling point for me but you’ll either love it or hate it.

            For pros the D750 is going to be a far safer choice. Not dissing the Df, but I don’t view it as targeting pros.

            • Brent Rawlings

              Thanks. I’m an amateur as well. I have the D500 for wildlife, birding, landscapes and general use. I am thinking about an FX to complement it.

            • Spy Black

              I think you may be frustrated with the Df AF if you’ve become accustomed to the D500 AF, especially in low light. I have a D600 with the same system. I work around it, but it’s problematic. The D600 also has an AF assist light which I believe the Df does not. However if you shoot under brighter conditions it’s fine. Orherwise I think the Df is a great camera, and you can get manual focusing screens from focusingscreem.com if it’s a requirement for you.

            • Brent Rawlings

              I appreciate your feedback. What is the better option to the DF? D750?

            • Spy Black

              Yeah, the D750 is the logical choice, unless you want the control surfaces available on the Df, as well as what is arguably the best-looking Nikon body. 🙂

            • Brent Rawlings

              Thanks. Yes it looks the best but I need comfort (large hands). Functionality and IQ trumps all.

            • Brent Rawlings

              The DF styling is very appealing to me. I am also an amateur.

        • Juergen.

          … “while 16 megapixels has never let me down I would like to an update with bump to 20 keeping up with the D5.”

          D5 has 5588 x 3712 = 20.742.656 pixels.
          Df has 4928 x 3280 = 16.163.840 pixels.

          That’s a difference of 13 percent in resolution (5588/4928 = 1,133 and 3712/3280 = 1,132) which is (close to) totally insignificant.

          It is said that one needs a resolution increase of at least 20 percent so that people begin to see a difference.
          That would be 23.277.504 (5914 x 3936).

          To get 50 percent more resolution you’d need
          36.368.640 pixels (7392 x 4920).
          And to double the resolution you’d need to quadruple the pixels (4928 x 2 + 3280 x 2 = 9865 x 6560) = 64.655.360

          So:
          16 to 20 = “nothing”
          16 to 24 = Slight enhancement
          16 to 36 = noticeable
          16 to 65 = “jump”

      • Claude Mayonnaise

        Your list sounds like a description for many D850 craving professional photographers on Nikon Rumors
        (drum cymbal crash)

  • eric

    I fully expect everyone who purchases this camera to take only amazing pictures from now on and dominate instagram…no complaining if the iPhone 8 camera makes photos indistinguishable on social media. I know everybody prints 48×72 on here anyways.

    • NikMan

      SIDE NOTE: Purchase new printer that prints ONLY 48×72, …… on instagram, ….. with ALL filters

      • eric

        It worked for Richard Prince, the instagram artist, who makes around $35k per instagram large print.

  • Chris Phillips

    looks like its gonna be a tad smaller than the D810

    • tomskyphoto

      D500 with a bigger hump FWIW.

  • The other photos are watermarked by a Michael McCann

    • Where? In the EXIF?

      • I mean if you look at the other pictures in the set

        • I believe the user on DP is MRM4350

          • yes

          • JXVo

            Don’t out the guy publicly…..he might be under NDA or have some form of privileged access.

            • Good point, comment deleted

        • I see, strange… I contacted him on dpreview but have not heard back yet

  • Gosh1

    Thanks for the latest chumming feed to nikonians worldwide – getting frenzied in what looks like the pending announcement!

    One Great looking camera. Similarities in control layout to the D500 is all for the better !

  • HD10

    Looking at the reduced-sized option in RAW and JPG, this does not look like the result of a pixel-binning algorithm.

  • Lucas Andersen

    So its 45.4 not 45.75 in Chinese slides

    • TwoStrayCats

      Calabros pointed that out 19 minutes ago.

    • Rich Murray

      There is my decision maker. NO SALE!

    • Bob Thane

      Yeah, it’s 45.75 total, 45.4 effective.

      • silmasan

        Total could be 46-47, “effective” would be the 45.75, actual file 45.4. (Go figure!)
        A7R II = 43.6 total mp, 42.4 effective, actual file 42.177
        D810 = 37.09 total mp, 36.3 effective, actual file 36.153
        Marketing roundup!

  • BVS

    And STILL no good picture of the right side of the viewfinder, lol. 🙂

    • jmey

      Yes true and thats the side with the mysterious button or whatever it is.

  • CaMeRa QuEsT

    Why is it that none of the leaked pictures detail the mysterious zit?

    • JXVo

      Because the leaks are carefully orchestrated and not actual leaks…or because there’s just nothing there….

      • CaMeRa QuEsT

        Darn, but it’s just hours away, anyways…

      • Exactly.

  • Kyle

    Seeing multiple raw options is pretty sweet.

    When I posted about that a few weeks ago it was a big wish. To see it on there is great!

    • I really wanna see what the file sizes are like. On the D500, they’re large enough to be worthless.

  • Wesley Coleman

    If you switched the RAW to medium quality I wonder how much longer you could shoot for without the buffer filling up? To be able to switch it into a “mini D5” mode and then back to a 45MP landscape monster is amazing.

    • Gosh1

      Happy Days Ahead 🙂

  • So they glued 58 to this promo shot 🙂 my D810 has it on all the time, so this might be the takeover for that lens 🙂 will still keep D810, it is heck of a camera 🙂 happy shooting guys

  • animalsbybarry

    One of the mysteries solved

    The last picture shows an oversized pentaprism ( for the advertised larger viewfinder magnification
    This explains the oversized hump on the camera

    • Yes, we covered that last week already – see the leaked slides for more info.

      • Focuspuller

        What I would like to know from YOU, Peter, is HOW LONG are you going to tolerate an inappropriate and offensive handle like “fanboy fagz”?

        • I don’t see any issues, please flag the comment and I will
          take a look. I could have missed something.

          • Roger S

            I think that Focuspuller is referring to the user name “fanboy fagz” itself.

            • ok, I get it – I asked him/her to change the name

            • also, feel free to report the name to disqus – they take this seriously based on my past experiences

            • Ric of The LBC

              I feel microagressed

            • Ivanku

              Don’t be a dick about this, there’s enough bigotry in the US right now. “fagz” is derived from faggot, which is hate speech in the US. It’s entirely reasonable to call someone out for using hate speech and ask them to stop. This user may not mean harm, but part of being in a position of privilege is doing things that hurt others without considering the consequences. I get the sense that you also take your secure position of privilege for granted.

            • There are at least 5 clean meanings of that word in slang. Most of them british in origin.

            • Ivanku

              You’re totally right, but this board isn’t just British people. If someone is offended – and given that it’s hate speech in the US they have full right to be – I think they also have the right to ask someone to stop using the offending word.

            • nwcs

              It’s not hate speech from a legal point of view in the US. It may be offensive to some but it doesn’t meet the definition of profane: http://www.salon.com/2011/03/04/westboro_church_and_obscenity_charges/

            • The fact that a few readers have already complained is enough for me to ask him to change his profile name. The last time somebody had a holocaust joke in their profile name – not illegal, but no reason to have such a handle on a camera blog. I had to ban this person because he refused to change it.

            • nwcs

              Oh I agree and all that. My comment was more to the point that just because something may be hateful or offensive it isn’t automatically hate speech. In any case this is your board and you make the rules.

            • Yes, I agree.

            • Except that the person hasn’t used the word in his conversations. He hasn’t shown any racial or such bias in his history till now. It’s his taken name and it’s been for a very long time now and nobody objected to it to date. Now one new guy comes out of the blue and objects to that name- not even a post. Wow.

            • Ivanku

              I never said I thought fanboy is a bad person, or that his intent was to hurt. I only said that if someone is offended, they have the right to request that he change the name, which uses a derivation of a slur. New person or old person, they have the right to ask.

            • I already asked him/her to change the profile name just like I have asked other people in the past

            • Ivanku

              You’re a good guy Peter. Sometimes all that you can do is ask

            • oh, I can ban him too if he doesn’t change it – there is no reason to have such handle. Hopefully I don’t have to do that.

            • Ric of The LBC

              Don’t overreact there snowflake

            • ninpou_kobanashi

              I thought fags were from the UK. Smoking no longer PC? (^_^)

          • Focuspuller

            It’s not the comment its the handle. Would you approve of “fanboy nigz”?

            • FountainHead

              Your political correctness grinds my gears. If you don’t like his handle, block him.

          • br0xibear

            It’s the word “fagz”, it means a different thing depending whether you’re in the U.S. or the rest of the world.
            In the U.S. to many it refers to a Harley rider/owner, to the rest of the world it’s a derogatory term for a gay man.
            And in the UK it also refers to cigarettes…take your pick.

            • You can also report the profile name to disqus, there is such an option and let them decide.

            • br0xibear

              I’m just explaining what you said you didn’t see, you’re the admin lol.

            • no, I was talking about a comment – the profile name has been the same for a long time and nobody has complained so far

        • Ric of The LBC

          Meh. Buck up.

        • Hans Bull

          Get a life.

  • Brent Rawlings

    Is it easier to identify which Nikkor lenses will or will not demonstrate the true IQ of this sensor? What is the ideal lens lineup? Will the trinity shine here? What about superzooms, exotics and primes?

    • D700s

      Yes. The lenses I own already.

    • Bob Thane

      All lenses will still resolve more detail than they would on a D810, but the ones that will really shine (wide open or close to it) will be the new 70-200E, the 200mm through 800mm primes, the 105mm f1.4, and maybe some of the f1.8 primes. Most other lenses will be quite god at f5.6, except for really bad lenses or slow zooms.

      • thundrrd

        I’ve had a few that are god at F8

      • Davo

        Probably the 28E and 19PCE too.

        • Bob Thane

          Good point, forgot about those ones.

    • TinusVerdino

      Lenses that do well on 24mp aps-c

      • Brent Rawlings

        Thanks

      • Ivanku

        But what about corners? A DX sensor doesn’t tell the whole story

        • TinusVerdino

          When corners are good on a d810 they will do on a D850. (except for people who immediately look for flaws to be able to declare this or that picture is a bad).

          • Ivanku

            I agree with you – my comment was regarding using a DX sensor to make a judgment of FX lenses. They may be good in the center/DX circle, but fall apart on the outer edges. I think the 300 PF is a good example of that. Still a great lens, don’t get me wrong – but if you were judging it only by the center performance, you’d miss how much it falls off on the edges

    • Ivanku

      I think Thom Hogan has a list somewhere on his site. Some skilled googling should help you find it, I’m sure it’s out there

  • br0xibear

    Nokishita just tweeted that the D850 has shown up on registered on Indonesia Postal, should be announced very soon…

    “Nikon N1608 also registered in Indonesia Postel. Because it is made in Thailand, SLR camera. Probably D850.”

    https://twitter.com/nokishita_c/status/896956512777625601

    • br0xibear

      There was another Nikon camera registered today too, made in Indonesia…Nikon – N16D3, don’t know what that one is.

      • nwcs

        Hope it’s a D500s with some more goodies 🙂

      • Ric of The LBC

        Pink version?

      • Nakayamahanzaemon

        N16D3 was registered in March. It looks like a compact camera or KeyMission.

        • Yes, those are old registrations.

        • br0xibear

          But it’s also being registered again on the 14th Aug 2017…I don’t know what it means ?

          • I think this is just an update/change of status to the existing registration.

    • Eric Calabros

      Maybe D760 🙂

    • Yes, this camera (N1608) was already registered before:
      https://nikonrumors.com/2017/07/14/list-of-not-yet-announced-nikon-cameras.aspx/

  • Gosh1

    Compa https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2077cd0b05714a60d96628a461d01aba56cef74bc94218a6b24a0ed01818726b.jpg rison of D500 and Df Panda. D850 stands taller with its larger pentaprism

  • Pells

    Prediction: I think the thing on the side of the viewfinder is another connection type – maybe the future of the 10 pin. If you look at the design of the top of the camera, you could easily slide something into the hot shoe that would go down around the sides. Notice how the plastic beneath the hot shoe is notched, as is the area that new side piece is on. Maybe the side piece acts as another connector type that isn’t integrated with the hot shoe. Maybe this is a way to overlay an EVF so that Nikon can sell us yet another accessory. Also look at the internal diagram of the prism. Could be more electronics in there.

  • Ric of The LBC

    Who REALLY shot JR?

    • animalsbybarry

      The key word in your question is “REALLY”
      JR is actually a real person (the show is a fictional series based on his life)
      The real JR is alive and well and has not been shot
      He is a very pleasant person and I greatly enjoyed talking to him

      • nwcs

        Considering that HL Hunt has been dead for over 40 years…

        • animalsbybarry

          J. R. Ewing is alive and well
          That is all I will say about him

          As Peter has repeatedly said…. do not believe everything you see on the internet.

        • animalsbybarry

          J. R. Ewing is alive and well
          That is all I will say about him

          As Peter has repeatedly said…. do not believe everything you read on the internet.

          • nwcs

            I know, that’s why I don’t believe your statement 😉

          • Ric of The LBC

            He is with Elvis, Bruce Lee, Jim Morrison and Amelia Erhart.

    • ToastyFlake

      If I remember correctly, it was Jeannie.

      • Ric of The LBC

        or so we were lead to believe.

        Dum Dum DUMMMMM

    • C-M

      Victoria Principal ?

      • 24×36

        Mary Crosby (as Kristen Shepard, Sue Ellen’s sister).

  • the OVF was not a mystery for me, not at all…

  • MB

    It seems that this is from a week or so ago … that is if Fuji user shooting this adjusts the clock …
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/885e628974d33f380a1364e9480459af8482544ac82db5da387ebde266327ec7.jpg

  • Marco

    Off topic, Peter you heard of a new 400mm coming? Saw it on the field this weekend. Could have been the new 200_400?

    • nwcs

      Might get announced at the same time.

  • NikonFanboy

    it could be announced tonight?

  • MAXIMUS

    The D850 will singlehandedly save not only the DSLR market … but the world. 😉

  • Stevie Jay Elmm

    I just wish the build quality was like the D700. I miss holding tanks

    • Ben Brayev

      ive never used one, is there really a difference? i assumed over time they will improve build quality not make it worse 😛

      • nwcs

        Not really. I had a D700 and D800. I think it’s a case of nostalgia more than actual fact.

        • Ben Brayev

          haha got it

        • reductron

          I have the 700,800 and 810. It might not be fact but it’s not nostalgia: maybe just sensory experience. I mean: I love the dense / tank feel of the 700. Love the acoustics of its shutter. Its size is just perfect. 800 and 810, from a sensory point, feel more vacuous / less dense. Their shutter acoustic, subjectively to me ears is wimpy.

          • nwcs

            I always thought the D700’s shutter was loud and annoying. Like many things, it is a very subjective issue. I liked the D700 but the D800 was better in just about every way, especially the ergonomics, for me.

      • Stevie Jay Elmm

        Oh just a nostalgia thing for me. Old cameras were built with a much tougher exterior instead of the plastics today. The D700 had the heavy weight of a old Nikon F3 or F4 ish film camera. I actually do enjoy heavier cameras for stability. That’s just me though. I got a Canon rebel and it fits my hand fine to.

        • Michiel953

          It’s weight and nostalgia. My D700 had (minor) build quality problems, my D800, D800E and now D810 never had any.

          I never did the ‘accidentally dropped on a rock surface from 3 ft” test though, with any of them.

          • Stevie Jay Elmm

            I got to use a D810 once. Friend owns it. Awesome camera. The images that he took with were just for the kids that day and he did them as jpeg and even shrunk the files down to 12mp and still blew me away. I was using my Fuji XT-1 which is a great camera as well but no D810. I did have my old Nikon F5 out with us shooting Portra 400 and it’s hard to compare any new camera build wise to that beast. I think that’s my biggest problem ha.

          • I’m not proud of it, but I’ve dropped a lot of Nikons. I’ve had every camera accident end as you’d expect: Regardless of if the camera was plastic or metal, it either survived short falls, and/or died due to MULTIPLE severe falls onto concrete.

            The D700 was a hearty beast, I’ll give it that. One of mine “survived” falling ~6 ft to concrete. But in the end, such harsh use does wind up killing the camera eventually. Even if the camera doesn’t die right away, it eventually bricks itself and just stops working.

            The D750 I’ve had for many years and over 300,000 clicks has performed as expected. It’s survived multiple concrete impacts, and randomly stopped working at around 250,000 clicks, but a new shutter was pretty cheap (few hundred bucks) and I’m sure it’ll last a good while longer.

            TLDR you’ll get your money’s worth out of every camera you buy, if you’re lucky, regardless of how that camera is made. If you’re not as lucky, of course, then it doesn’t matter what camera you bought, it just wasn’t going to be lucky in the first place. The only way to “beat luck” and reduce your chances of having a DOA or fluke break-down is to buy a topmost flagship.

    • The D700 was an obese, chubby chunk of a camera, nothing to reminisce about. The D750’s grip and overall feel is absolutely perfect, especially with the re-oriented battery to allow the grip to be slimmer. Every time I had to pick up my old D700 or even my old D800e, after getting a D750, I wondered how I ever put up with a camera body / grip that felt so fat.

  • RC Jenkins

    Every time I see that mystery button on the side of the viewfinder, I get more and more convinced that it’s some sort of locking mechanism, maybe to attach viewfinder or hotshoe accessories (like magnifiers, right-angle viewfinders, etc).

    To me, it looks similar to the lens-release button on the side of the mount.

    • Michiel953

      No.

    • tomskyphoto

      It’s just a bulge that’s home to some gears of the diopter adjustment that had to be moved further out due to the larger lens elements of the high magnification viewfinder and the rather narrow footprint of the 850’s pentaprism hump.

      Nothing exciting at all…

      • Coffee

        Considering the leaked photos always omit the area, its either nothing or something huge that Nikon did not want released until official release. That, or we are getting trolled.

      • RC Jenkins

        Could be. Agree that either way, it won’t be particularly exciting.

    • Scott Kantrowitz

      What are the other guesses so far? Eye sensor? WiFi anntena?

      • RC Jenkins

        Don’t think it’s an eye sensor. What would be the point? This isn’t mirrorless + evf. Also, it’s facing the wrong direction.

        Could also be a place to plug in an external wifi antenna…but if they need to do that, they did wifi wrong.

        Don’t know the other guesses.

        To help describe my eyepiece theory, see here:
        https://petapixel.com/2015/12/17/nikon-d5-has-a-big-removable-eyepiece-and-a-built-in-viewfinder-shutter/

        • Antonio

          You’re right about the positioning but not about the utility as an eye sensor could be useful for people that want to look at the LCD after each shot but would like it to switch off when they approach the eye to look through the viewfinder.

      • IronHeadSlim

        I still think it is a momentary switch to light up something in the viewfinder.

    • Antonio

      The right-angle viewfinders and viewfinder magnifiers attach directly to the viewfinder’s ocular/eyepiece, so you can exclude those ones.

      • RC Jenkins

        Not if they have new accessories to accommodate for the D850’s larger magnification viewfinder…. 🙂

        • Antonio

          The larger magnification viewfinder may reduce or even eliminate the need for a magnifying lens but when it comes to right-angle viewfinder it’s difficult to foresee any change as the images show the same circular eyepiece and viewfinder shutter making it strange if Nikon makes DR-6 useless.

          The viewfinder magnification doesn’t seem to bring any need of change on that respect.

          • RC Jenkins

            Neither the magnifying eyepiece nor the right-angle eyepiece are designed for the larger viewfinder area that this D850 has. They may crop, so Nikon may need to create new eyepiece accessories for this viewfinder anyway.

            • Antonio

              The point under discussion was the “mystery button on the side of the viewfinder” that was suggested could be right-angle related and not an eventual need for an adaptor to fix it to the body.

              if we look at DR-5 compatibility charts we find D5, D500, D810/A, Df, D4S, D800/E, D4, D3S, D3, D700, D3X, D2H, D2Xs, and D2Hs and this group of cameras show quite different viewfinder magnifications – just an example we get 0.66 for D500, 0.70 for D3 and 0.72 for D5 all with a 100% coverage and 0.72 for D700 whose viewfinder covers 95% of the image. So, let’s see what Nikon will recommend for D850.

            • RC Jenkins

              Then you misunderstood the point.

              The point was that this button could be an eyepiece release button, just like how the D5 has eyepiece release buttons. The magnifying eyepieces and right angle eyepieces were just examples of potential accessories, not the point.

            • Antonio

              Maybe I did (sorry for that) however if we look at the D5 eyepiece the viewfinder shutter is in a position that allows it to come off but the leaked images of the D850 seem to show that shutter on the external plate and that would imply it would also come off if we release the eyepiece.

            • Does the viewfinder shutter come off when the eyepiece is removed on a D5?

              The shutter lever on the D850 looks very similar to the D800/D810 to me and not like the D5. In which case it may also release the lock on the eyepiece in the same way as it does on those cameras. Don’t think the mystery lump is for that.

            • Antonio

              No because it has the shutter lever on the side not on the plate that comes off.

              That’s the reason I also think the same as you.

            • 24×36

              Yes the function is when you close the viewfinder shutter, that also unlocks the eyepiece so it can be unscrewed and replaced. Suspect the D850 will be the same in that respects, so no lock/unlock function is likely for the mysterious bump.

            • DR-5 also compatible F5 DP-30 0.75x finder. Will therefore work with D850.

            • Antonio

              Tks Vm for that info about F5 and DR-5.

            • Sorry but that is not true of the DR-5. See my post above.

        • They already work with a finder the same size: on an F5. This isn’t the largest finder Nikon have made. Just the first time on a DSLR.

    • Pells

      As I said below:

      Prediction: I think the thing on the side of the viewfinder is another connection type – maybe the future of the 10 pin. If you look at the design of the top of the camera, you could easily slide something into the hot shoe that would go down around the sides. Notice how the plastic beneath the hot shoe is notched, as is the area that new side piece is on. Maybe the side piece acts as another connector type that isn’t integrated with the hot shoe. Maybe this is a way to overlay an EVF so that Nikon can sell us yet another accessory. Also look at the internal diagram of the prism. Could be more electronics in there.

      • RC Jenkins

        I understand the concept, but we are no longer in the 80’s. If Nikon wants additional communication, they should build it into the hotshoe or do some form of wireless communication. Like some modern mirrorless cameras do (eg. Olympus Vf-4)

        Plugging in a single oem accessory twice (mechanical + electronic) no longer makes sense this decade.

    • Ric of The LBC

      kinda looks like a rubber port cover. Port for what, don’t know?

    • Emms

      Looks like a joystick?

  • Nikon have done something different(better) with sRAW/mRAW. (According to NR posting)

    • Ivanku

      I hope so! Canon has been doing it for years and haven’t succeeded, so if Nikon has cooked up a new algorithm, they are the first to do so. Only concern – if they do it through pixel binning/line skipping, it increases the probability of Moire and aliasing. So Nikon may also start utilizing a smoothing digital AA filter? Don’t know enough about this to make a good guess, but my gut says there’s still gonna be a price to pay

    • Mike D

      I’ve been reading NR religiously and I have not seen any indication of that.

      • It’s in some earlier post. But again that could also be the part of the rumour which fails to come true.

  • Aphidman

    Speaking as an owner of Nikon’s despised red-headed stepchild, the D7500, I think that D850 owners will really like their camera’s touch screen, with its ability to operate the menus by touch. It may sound like a small thing, but once you have used that, it is hard to go back. And its screen resolution sounds like it will be far better than the D7500’s, of course.

    • I thought people liked the D7500. It looks like a nice camera.

      • Coffee

        It’s a nice camera if you ignore the fact it’s a crippled D500. Seriously, it’s a good camera, just poor value compared to D7200 and D500.

        • Aphidman

          It depends on what you want, of course, and what your significant other will allow you to spend. 🙂 The D850 sounds yummy.

        • Antonio

          You could be right if Nikon did discontinue the D500 when they introduced the D7500, as this was not the case and the D500 is there for the people that wants to pay the price for the extended facilities you shall look at the camera for itself and Nikon even continues to sell the D7200 for the ones that consider it a better option and are in a mood to forget about the added facilities of the new camera for the sake of 2 card ports and a grip.

        • Salty-snack

          I don’t agree with that.

        • disqus_ErOzKSxw9P

          If you want the features you pay for the D500, the D7500 is not intended for pro use but it does produce pro level quality images at a lower price point which is great. Or would you rather instead of bringing top tech to low priced cameras like nikon. bring lower tech up to a more expensive model like Canon with the 6D mark ii

      • Aphidman

        It is — if you are like me, upgrading from the D5xxx line. People who have D7000/D7100/D7200 models are legitimately upset because it has slightly reduced resolution, no grip option, a single card slot instead of two, and does not have full compatibility with AI lenses.

        If you want a bigger buffer, slightly higher FPS, a tilting touch screen, and full AF-P compatibility (why no D7200 firmware upgrade for that yet, Nikon?), and a lower price than the D500, then it might be appropriate; it was for me. I am really happy with my D7500.

        If you don’t want those things, then the D7200 at the current price is a great deal. It is good to have options.

        Back to my original point: a fully capable touch screen is a really nice feature. I suspect that any Nikon that allows touch in some form ought to be able to have a firmware upgrade that allows the same capability as the D7500 and D850. (Respectfully, if Mr. Hogan knows of reasons why that may not be the case, I will concede the point.)

  • cBBp

    So it’s much smaller than the older D810?

    • Michiel953

      10%

      • cBBp

        That’s pretty nice. 10% isn’t amazing but welcomed.

        Wonder if there’s a benefit in smaller RAW. Why not a 36mp size lol

  • C-M

    I got a posting in one thread I started on DPR about meny pictures from the D850
    I wondered where he got the picture
    I thought that it came from NR but I couldn’t find it here.
    https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4191522?page=2#forum-post-59971646

  • That thing on the side of the viewfinder that everyone keeps talking about looks like it’s just a weirdly formed diopter dial. Not some special new thingie added to the D850…

    • Ivanku

      I agree, though I’m still hoping for a live histogram LCD overlay switch. Just a highlights warning, not an RGB histogram, so it can still use a black and white LCD. But yea, I think my wish is a long shot

      • *inside* the viewfinder? Even if such a feature were finally possible, I don’t think they’d offer a whole new switch / button for it. IMO, Nikon gave up their love of gratuitous switches when they dumped the D700’s AF system control switches for the D800’s AF system control switches. (The C/S/M switch on the front became a simple AF/MF switch with a button inside the switch, and the dynamic AF point switched was re-purposed entirely to a stills / video live view switch.True, it’s the same number of switches, but they clearly were trying to simplify things.)

        • Ivanku

          Voice of reason – I think you’re right

  • Dibyendu Majumdar

    It is interesting that all the images leaked so far avoid showing the right right of the viewfinder in detail. Either there is nothing of interest there – or there is!

    • I say there is nothing interesting there.

      • Dibyendu Majumdar

        I am beginning to think it is just the prism housing that is being shown – the protrusion isn’t anything exciting!

        • Exactly. If they’re touting this camera as having one of the biggest prisms ever, then they probably simply had to move the diopter adjustment gears a few mm, and it yielded a slightly un-flattering new lump on the side of the viewfinder. Nothing to see here folks. Except a big beautiful viewfinder…

          • Biggest prism ever was in the interchangeable DA-30 actionfinder for the F5 (except on a medium format, possibly). Huge chunk of glass, dwarfs everything else. Gives a 60mm eyepoint with a very big eyepiece. Only 0.6x magnification though.

            I’m not certain that the D850 viewfinder will look so different from the D800/D810. I’ve been comparing my D800 with the DP-30 (0.75x at 100%) on my F5 and I don’t think the difference is that obvious. Only a subjective assessment though. I’m sure we can expect it to be an excellent viewfinder.

            • I’m not so certain the D850 viewfinder will be *that* different either, but since they’e mentioning it, I’m deducing a suspicion about the mystery bump / switch.

        • jmey

          But as you pointed out it does seem like no one is showing images of the right side on purpose. To me it does look like something is above the diopter adjustment knob.

          • Dibyendu Majumdar

            Well like you I wish that that were true! But probably it isn’t anything exciting. I remember when D5 came out there was similar talk – in the end it turned out to be a lever for taking the eyepiece out – to match what Canon does.

        • PT

          How about an external aerial for an inbuilt RF Speedlight controller. I wish 🙂

    • tomskyphoto

      There’s a gearbox – if you find that exciting, interesting or couldn’t give some small mammal’s hind parts is up to you…

  • outkasted

    pretty colors

    • Paul Seiler

      Logged in to Disqus for the first time in years so that I can comment and acknowledge the new King of the Northern most comment: outkasted. Long live outkasted! P.s. your crown is pretty.

  • I’m also not holding my breath for any improvement over the D810’s pathetic attempt at mRAW. Why? Because Canon has been giving it their best shot for over a decade now, and they still have not been able to save more space (megabytes per megapixel) than Nikon’s existing, tried-and-true 12-bit lossy compression option.

    In short, Nikon’s 12-bit compressed format gives you more megapixels, at fewer megabytes. If you use any Canon mRAW, or the D810’s mRAW, you wind up with far lower resolution, and yet larger files, plus the image quality is significantly compromised, far worse than if you had just shot 12-bit compressed NEF.

    Based on this historic trend, I honestly believe that Nikon’s best bet is to just consider offering another step of lossy compression. Nobody uses un-compressed now anymore anyways, they all use lossless compressed. And the current “compressed” format is practically indiscernible from uncompressed. If you don’t believe me, just do some tests for yourself.

    This is also, as it turns out, slightly related to what is a much better way to get both a deeper buffer, and also maybe even higher FPS. Numerous Nikons over the years have only been able to hit higher FPS by forcing you to use 12-bit instead of 14-bit.

    After some consideration I doubt Nikon will offer an NEF format lower than 12-bit, but at least shooting 12-bit lossy compressed is a great way to get slightly more FPS, and significantly more use out of your buffer, …versus any sort of mRAW improvements that Nikon MIGHT have been magically able to come up with…

  • Aldo

    The raw options just need to be decent… specially for white balance. Most of my shots come within 1/3 stop from being ‘perfectly’ exposed. It is the white balance and color latitude that I need from the raw files.

    • Even if that is your requirement, you’re still better off shooting full-resolution NEF files, and opting for a slightly more lossy compression algorithm. You’ll wind up in the same place WRT image quality and raw edit-ability, yet you’ll still have a full-res file.

      Unless Nikon has finally broken the code, and come up with a way to offer a ~10 MP file that is under 10 MB, and yet still has roughly the same dynamic range and high ISO performance (or maybe better high ISO performance) compared to the full-res file.

      • Aldo

        It’s just so little that my files need adjustment that full nefs seems like a waste…I wanna see how these compressed raws compare.

        • If you’re ever pressed for either memory card space or buffer depth, just have one of your JPG Picture controls set to low sharpening, super-low contrast, and Active D-Lighting on High or Extra-High. You’ll wind up with a JPG file that has so much dynamic range, you’ll be able to edit it like a RAW file. Still gotta nail your white balance, though.

          • Space is so cheap though, I feel it costs me more to not shoot the raw and pay for stupidly cheap SD and HDD storage mediums.

            I’ve gotten better at massaging my raws, so nice to revisit earlier work and do a better job with the negatives.

            • That’s only the case for folks who shoot below a certain threshold of volume. Most hobbyists fall beneath that threshold, of course, even if they shoot thousands of photos per month, it’s more convenient to shoot raw.

              However, if you shoot tens of thousands of photos per month, let alone a hundred thousand or more, …file size really starts to become an issue in your storage costs and workflow times.

          • Aldo

            Yeah It’s mostly for WB that I shoot raw… not because Im lazy but because shooting with natural or available light makes it a bit more complicated. You have a bunch of color temps bouncing around and you have to balance the image accordingly. Jpegs are not bad density wise… but when it comes to color they dont forgive you.

            • That’s why I like to turn off lights and/or open windows whenever possible. Even if you’re shooting raw, mixed light is yucky.

              (10+ year wedding photographer here)

            • Aldo

              I hear yah. As a wedding photographer you also know that we cant always control the light source. At a church you have light coming from the window (one temp) then you have the indoor lights (another temp). Then you also have light bouncing here and there giving you color casts and WB nightmare. Ive used powerful strobes bouced off walls and ceiling to overpower the temps.. but this isnt always the best way to go… You can always try matching the temps but more often than not introducing your own light source will kill the mood of the moment. Not having to worry about WB allows you to focus on capturing the moment. You can always correct in LR and even balance out different temps or color casts using the color sliders.

            • Churches seem to be the least of my worries, since its’ such a big area, I just shoot for the dominant light temp, and let the rest be whatever it wants. It’s mainly in the prep times in hotel rooms, and other close-quarters situations, that it just looks disgusting to have mixed light. Either way, what I mean to say was, in that type of situation, I’d rather be forced to shoot JPG and be allowed to turn off a lamp and open a window, than be forced to shoot raw yet not change any of the ambient light.

            • Proto

              or convert it into b&w…. and call it fine art

            • Aldo

              Oh yeah.. that too. Like froddo… max quality raw files only to later max out the contrast and cook it as b&w

            • Proto

              these days people are into rustic farm and barn weddings… you cant turn off the light on that and control with flash : ) can you?

            • If you’re talking about outdoor natural lighting then I would say anybody who can’t nail their white balance in that situation is an idiot…

            • Proto

              yup, but also depends on percentage of green lushness around… too much green and it creates more work in post

            • Ugh you’re right, I hate green shade. It is hard to get the magenta WB compensation just right, too.

              Well, I avoid “green light” like the plague, and usually go somewhere that I can get at least a little bit of blue sky shining into the shade onto my couple…

            • Proto

              yup, color correction on JPG swings wildly. Also, nef is so more amiable in Adobe raw – for both color and DR.

          • Proto

            in which body?

            • Any Nikon body in the last few years will have great jpeg dynamic range when using active d-lighting properly

          • Thom Hogan

            No, not really. The reduction in bit size from 14 bits to 8 bits will be a real limitation in what you can do with that flat JPEG file. Too many rounding issues at the low end that would result in mushy shadow areas. Moreover, you have a Color Space reduction problem from where you can be in raw.

            • Proto

              That explains why JPG is so resistant to corrections in adobe raw, compared to nef. WB/color correction is particularly bothersome.

            • A JPG file is “so resistant to corrections” because it has baked-in color and dynamic range. In theory, you could make an 8-bit NEF file that had much better WB correct-ability, and slightly better shadow / highlight edit-ability.

              It wouldn’t be *that* good, but it would be better than a pre-cooked JPG file. The information required to store all the white balance data is not that many megabytes, apparently.

              If you’re interested, do a test: shoot a JPG at the highest quality, including that only-in-the-menu quality option for JPG compression, “Size Priority / Optimal Quality”. Compare this highest-quality JPG file against a 12-bit compressed NEF file. (the NEF recording menu item should be right near the JPG compression menu item, often just below it but maybe on a separate menu page.)

              The file sizes will be so close, that if you shoot the JPG file at ISO 6400 and the raw file at ISO 100, the raw file can sometimes actually be smaller. And yet, somehow, the NEF file will be far more edit-able in camera raw.

            • 12-bit compressed NEF was the only thing that allowed me to start shooting huge events in all raw ~13 years ago when even a 1 GB memory card was still absurdly expensive, and most wedding photographers were still shooting JPG on their Fuji S2 / S3…

            • In theory, both of those are indeed huge concerns, and the loss of data is show-stopping.

              In many real-world shooting conditions however, my method of shooting a super-flat JPG works pretty well. (you can boost the saturation in-camera too if you’d like to avoid having to do that in post and risk posterization)

              I’ve shot everything from weddings to air shows, and have done so since before the days memory cards were this dirt cheap, so I know what it’s like to have to shoot JPG for things like weddings, portraits, theater, gymnastics, air shows, you name it. If you get your WB and exposure right, unless you’re shooting in NASTY light, the files simply don’t need much editing more than a slight bump in contrast anyways.

              Of course if you’re shooting in dynamic conditions where you plan to go nuts with editing, shoot raw. If you’re a working professional getting paid to take pictures, you’d be an idiot to not own enough memory to shoot FIVE weddings back to back without formatting a card.

              But if you’re just a hobbyist at a mid-day air show, and all you brought was one or two 32 GB cards for your D810, then you’d better switch to at least 12-bit compressed NEF, and/or shoot a whole lot of 1.2x or 1.5x crop mode, and/or nail your exposure & WB and just shoot JPG. Nobody will notice, unless you’re making giant prints, or you royally mess up an exposure.

      • Mike D

        But you won’t end up in the same place with regard to raw edit-ability. sRAW and mRAW have much less edit-ability than true raw files.

        • Yes, mRAW and sRAW are worse than even a 12-bit “lossy” compressed full-res NEF file, because Nikon’s “lossy” compressed format is quite good and essentially indiscernible from “lossless”.

          As I wrote in my main response below, Canon has been working on mRAW for over a decade and they still haven’t gotten it right; Nikon’s not going to be able to perfect it on just one D810->D850 generation…

    • Kyle

      I’m very interested in seeing how the different RAW sizes work.

      Right now I’m exporting 400 images from a dance recital I shot in May. These are from the 42MP Sony a7R2 and weigh in at a whopping 80MB a piece.

      I’m exporting from LR CC on a pretty much maxed out Alienware laptop 17, 32GB RAM, SSD, and GTX1070… and it’s plowing through them but man the fans are running wild! It’s taken around 10-15 minutes so far and I’m 75% done.

      Resizing to 1800px on the long side.

      These large MP files really need a computer with major horsepower! And technically, we didn’t need 80MP images for this recital shoot. lol

      • …That’s why you should have switched away from Sony’s “uncompressed” raw format, and opted for their compressed format. Should be much closer to 1MB per MP.

        • Kyle

          This wasn’t my camera, it was my buddy’s who at the time had just bought it to try out what is commonly one of the most difficult lighting situations to work in – stage/theatrical lighting.

          I was surprised at the noise levels at ISO 800.

          Hopefully the D850 is cleaner at 800.

          I don’t have any issues shooting weddings with my D750 at 1600-3200. To me, it looked like the noise at 800 on the Sony was comparable to somewhere in between 1600 and 3200 on my camera. Totally unscientific though.

          I was shooting video from up top so don’t have anything to bump against on this one.

          • The Sonys can have weird noise patterns at “native” but intermediate ISO’s, like 800 or 1600, but I don’t think the A7R is one of those cameras. I dunno. Unless I’m mistaken about this, though, the D850 won’t be *that* much better at ISO 800.

          • Joe Geske

            One of the weird things about the 42mp sony a7rii files is that when lr renders previews for them the noise looks way way way worse than what it is in reality. Zoom into 100% on an image and let lr actually load up the full res preview and be amazed. I shoot wedding with a d750 and a7rii combo and at first I felt the same way you do, and then noticed that it was just a lightroom preview issue, and now I feel like the a7rii might have about a half stop advantage on the d750, and perhaps a full stop when resized to 24mp.

      • Max

        beats the socks off any macbook pro 😀 😀

        • Kyle

          True. and a lot cheaper. I got mine brand new from the Dell Outlet on Sale for $2,000.

          • Fly Moon

            So you compare a new laptop price to a second used laptop price?

  • ninpou_kobanashi

    I’m seeing 404s, did DPReview move the pages?

    • PT

      Ditto ( or in plain language I am also seeing 404s.)

      • I have the pictures, but I was asked not to post them.

      • the pictures are still there – I updated the links

    • they probably removed the photos already 🙂

      • Did you mean to write D820?

      • They are still there. The D850 is just covered up.

        • yes, I updated my post… I thought they were removed

    • MB

      Frankly … who cares … there were not too informative anyway …
      I just wonder if someone who violated NDA will be caught …

    • the links work again

      • ninpou_kobanashi

        Ya, I saw, thanks!

        It’s kinda freaky some dude ratting out his “family member” as being the employee who leaked. Hopefully he was just lying.

        • don’t know… it’s weird

        • C-M

          Not that clever, could cost the other guy his job

  • I updated my post with a description of the pictures – there was nothing new really to see.

    • MB

      I believe it is D850 and not D820 🙂
      You may be a bit tired and need some rest now dont you? 🙂

    • PT

      Cheers Peter & thanks.

  • Now I somehow regret that I changed the system 🙂

    • nwcs

      Sometimes that happens. I am slowly returning to Nikon. Not because the other system was bad or that Nikon was bad at one point. Sometimes you have to just experiment and try new things. But for the stuff I enjoy most, Nikon does it better. Enjoy what you have though. 🙂

  • Just found out that it takes a battery that is not compatible with my D810, D750, or D500. Plus, I need 2 of these larger batteries, a large grip, and a large charger to get 9 FPS. This makes the D850 a lot heavier and more difficult to travel with. (I’m trying to talk myself out of it because, on the surface, it looks great with the higher MP and focus stacking.)

    • Ed Hassell

      Just like other models which use the EN-EL15A, with the addition of the battery grip, you have the option of using the EN-EL18A & BL-5 battery cover. The D850 should work perfectly well with one (or two) of it’s native batteries — just 2fps slower.

      • Can the battery grip also take EL15 batteries so I don’t have to carry an extra charger, especially on trips.

        • D700s

          If it’s like other grips the answer is yes. You have to purchase the Nikon BL-5 Battery Chamber Cover for the D810 Grip. Otherwise EN-EL 15 or AA in the Grip tray.

        • Ed Hassell

          Of course. It is designed to hold a second EN-EL15 type battery by default. You have to buy the optional BL-5 battery cover in order to convert it to use the EN-EL18 type batteries.

          If all the info we have so far is correct, you get a speed boost by using the more expensive and higher voltage EN-EL18 — an additional 2fps — but they are not required for operation.

  • sickheadache

    For those big babies who are frighten as a wet kitten to go beyond 8-12 mp..This new D850 can do 11.4 mp in Small Raw Files.

    • Aldo

      Yes this is what I wanted in the d800

      • C-M

        Buy a D3, D3s or a D700 then

        • Aldo

          I’ve worked with the d700 and d3 for quite some time. They lack the versatility that a higher mp sensor brings paired up with prime lenses. Eg 35mm lens is also a somewhat 50mm when used in dx mode.

    • It will be a worthless file, though. It will significantly compromise raw edit-ability, and it won’t even save as much file size as you’d think, if they keep the damn thing at 14-bit lossless NEF.

      • Joe Geske

        Why would the small raw files be worthless? First of all there are a few methods nikon could be using here to reduce the size, secondly if they are still taking direct pixel readout from the pixels and using some kind of pixel skipping or binning algorithm then there should be 0 change to bit depth, dr, or noise. Yes obviously the resolution will be lower, but that’s kind of obvious. Now if they go with some kind of a software method and use the cameras processors to reduce the file size then we could see that go a few different ways, it might even be possible to reduce the noise readout, but it could also have negative consequences as well. My point is that it is more likely that we see no affect to image quality.

        • In theory you could be correct and I would love for that to be the case; I am just basing my prediction on the fact that Canon has been working on this *forever* and yet they still have issues with loss of dynamic range, shadow tint, and generally being a poor way to save space. Canon’s mRAW CR2 (10-11 MP, historically) is approximately the same file size as a Nikon 12-bit compressed NEF that is 20-24 MP.

          • BVS

            Canon has issues with loss of dynamic range even in regular RAWs. 😉

            • That goes without saying, but my point was mostly aimed at Canon’s lack of success at saving a proportionate number of megabytes per megapixel compared to a full-size file. Meaning, they throw away 50% of their resolution, and only save 20-25% in filesize IIRC.

        • Mike D

          Have you any experience with the D810 small raw files? They are only glorified jpegs, a YCbCr format image. They are 11-bit files and do not have the recoverability of a true raw file. As Astro Landscape has said, if file size is your issue you would be better off shooting 12-bit lossy compressed raw. About the same file size as small raw but you get the full 45 MP.

          • C-M

            Yes they are not raw files

    • Hans J

      “big babies who are frighten as a wet kitten” hahahaha!!!

  • Davo

    Lol, more avoidance of the VF right side.

    • and again confirms my theory that there is nothing interesting there

      • Davo

        *sigh* you’re probably right Peter although this time I wish you were wrong. A new port is what I’d like to see.

        • I mean if it was not part of the rumors, not part of the teaser video, not part of the official Nikon presentation…. it cannot be that important….

          • Davo

            Hence my sigh.

          • Antonio

            Unless it’s part of this Thom Hogan’s sentence: “But there are still a few surprises and positive things that haven’t been revealed/discovered”. 🙂

            Just kidding but one unrevealed/undiscovered positive thing that would really surprise and please me would be the overlap of a live histogram at the push of that “mystery thing”… that would be real killing improvement in DSLR usage… and I really mean “would” because it most certainly “will not be”… and the option to see or not to see the frame lines may indicate it wouldn’t be completely impossible to generate the overlapping image besides being not the same or as easy as that.

            • I am sorry but Thom’s sentence doesn’t mean anything to me – if he wants to share something with us, he is welcome to. Those types of statements don’t add anything to our discussion here.

            • Antonio

              Sorry if you consider my comment as inconvenient because that was not my intention at all and if I knew I wouldn’t certainly produce it.

            • no, not at all, your comment was fine

            • Antonio

              Ok Ths Vm

            • Have you considered how awkward it would be to use a button there when looking through the viewfinder? Why would it need to be there in any case?

              I’ve switching been between all the different theories but now believe Peter is correct. Nothing significant, sadly. Those who suggest that it simply accommodates the gears for the dioptre adjustment may be right. The 0.75x finder for the F5 has its dioptre adjustment knob placed in a similar position to this lump. Just speculating that might be significant.

            • Antonio

              If you read my comment again you’ll see I don’t think that is a possibility (the reason I started with “just kidding…”) but I do agree with you about it would be awkward and a function button you could press with your finger on the trigger would be much more convenient as for the other function they’re already used.

  • Rich

    just take my money already

  • D700s

    I think with the leak of the Marketing photos and Nikon’s misstep with production vs. demand for the D800, they learned and the D850 is already on a boat heading to outlets. Shoot me if you like it’s just what I think. Based on nothing but gut feeling so don’t ask how I know.

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