Weekly Nikon related news/links #71

By [NR] admin | Published: August 15, 2010
  • A word about the ISO in the Nikon D90 replacement: (I am still not convinced about the D95 name, so I will continue to call it the "Nikon D90 replacement") I think we can now be confident about the previously rumored "D700-like" ISO in the D90 successor - we saw already that the Nikon D3100 will have a 100 – 12800 ISO range. I will go even a step further and guess that the ISO of the D90 replacement could be even higher, up to 25600 ISO. That way, there will be a clear distinction between both models (besides the MP count - the new D90 will have 16MP). For the record, this is just a speculation - Nikon may keep all consumer models in the 100-12800 ISO range and increase the ISO performance for the D300s replacement next year.
  • Lightroom 3.2 and Camera Raw 6.2 released candidates are out. New Nikon profiles were added in Lightroom for 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6, 16-35mm f/4, 50mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.8 and few Sigma and Zeiss lenses with F-mount.

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    • CanPhoto

      Admin.

      Do you have the size of LCD for the D3100?

      • no, but I think it will be 3 in. – same as in the D3000

    • safeg

      you are dreaming.
      ISO 12800 is a Hi2. So D3100 native ISO is100-3200.
      I think D95 ISO paformance is same as D3100(100-3200) becouse sencer size is same.Or ISO 100-6400 Possible.
      APS-C ISO 3200~6400. FX ISO 6400~12800.its oK.

      • WoutK89

        iso 200-3200 as native iso, lo-1 and hi-1/hi-2
        That’s more usual for the latest cams

      • It will have minimum ISO6400 native as is in Pentax K-x and other cameras with newer genration Sony Sesnsor than in actuall Nikon cameras.

      • reD

        i think 100-6400 native, because even older cameras from canon and sony have 6400 native.

      • Anonymous

        Git a dickshonary

    • Ronald

      I read about the D800 in a previous post, and it would be great if it will be anounced this year….. but going to that (chinese?) site, you will also see the D400 and D900 listed there. Also the rumours on twitter points to the D800, but I doubt it. Would be great thoug if it would be anounced around the photokina.

      • Robby

        As much as I would like to have a D400 and a D700x (or what name so ever), let’s face it they won’t be available to this Photokina.
        The reasons are simple: Nikon doesn’t have a 16 to 18 Mp CMOS yet to build a real 7D “killer”. And after the halfhearted model update from D300 to D300s the should have some real convincing stuff. What is that video mess for anyway.

        When the D700 entered the market, the D3 was kinda cemented in the shelves of the sellers. So Nikon probably will not kill their sales on the D3x by coming up with a D700x before a D4 is launched. Furthermore rumors go, that Nikon won’t be able to offer a D700x at a price which can compete with Canon’s 5D Mk II. It’s said that a D700x would be 3000 to 3500 bucks for the body.

        It seems to me that Nikon is just targeting for the consumer-market to make the money and developing some high end pro stuff to build the reputation.

        The introduced new lenses also cannot enthuse me too much. The 4.0/24-120 might be a nice travel-zoom. But I’d prefer an update on the 80-400mm, cause who can afford the 4.0/200-400 really?

    • I’ve read the comment about the D3100 having the “same ISO as the D700” several times. Just because the camera can be set to the same ISO doesn’t mean the output will be equivalent, and to me, that’s what is more important. Am I missing something in that comment?

      • WoutK89

        D3100 is NOT the replacement of D90

        • Right. I get that. Thanks. You’re missing the point. We’re talking about the ISO capabilities of a DX sensor compared to an FX sensor. Just because the numbers align does not mean that the quality aligns, too.

          • SA

            You didn’t get. It was written “The same ISO PERFORMANCE”, but not the same ISO digit. OK?

            • SA

              I mean ISO number. I think it’s more correct than Digit.

          • twoomy

            Don’t forget that technology improves over the years. It’s quite possible for today’s DX sensor to match the ISO capabilities of an FX camera from two years ago. Sensor size and resolution aren’t the only factors. If they were, my old 6mp D100 from 2003 should outperform a 12mp D90. But of course, we know that it doesn’t.

          • noworries

            If you read any article on equivalence, you will realize ALL sensors using the same tech have “The same ISO PERFORMANCE”. FX vs DX is a myth. If you give up DOF for more light, you’re not comparing apples with apples.

      • Eric

        My thoughts too.
        I hope it really means “same quality at high ISO” and not just “Look! You can set your D95 to 250 000 ISO and it looks like utter crap” 🙂

        Still
        D90+(D3S-D700)+(12MP-16MP) could be close to D700 ISO quality.

      • Worminator

        ” Just because the camera can be set to the same ISO doesn’t mean the output will be equivalent, and to me, that’s what is more important.”

        Of course, the maximum ISO number is just that, a number reflecting an amplification factor applied to the sensor output (either boosting the gain of the sensor or amplifying the output current). It says nothing about the quality of the image obtained at that setting. This, by and large, is still determined on a per-pixel basis by the size of the active area of the pixel itself.

        I’m surprised that even the admin seems to be caught up in the numbers game.

        All I can say is enjoy your ISO12,800. You are welcome to it.

    • Anonymous

      The fake images for D800 and the rumored new technical specifications must be thought apart. Images (2 different versions) may have been used for illustration purpose only, in the lack of a real one & shouldn’t be misleading.

      The 200-6400 native ISO range plus full-HD video on 24mp sensor is somewhat different than the previous rumor from last year. This seems like a fresh rumor dating yesterday, which may explain the sudden circulation on the net.

      Or, all could be part of a marketing hype with plausible, yet bogus info to drive traffic to these Chinese sites.

      • Anonymous

        If it were only some fabrication from Chinese minds, it wouldn’t cause that much stir. Otherwise we have seen it, none of the others has made that effect. There was quite a lot of excitement yesterday among forums including dpreview & photo.net. If there’s smoke…

        Some sites show a list of technical specifications including ISO range, af-module, frame-rate, etc, some displaying sophisticated graphs dedicated to D800.

        D700 has been & will be fantastic for what it is aimed for, but Nikon has lagged behind competitors at resolution & video in mainstream FF. Waiting for a D4 plus one year to see the tweener means another 2 years. Simply too much.

        If the sensor is available, what stops Nikon from making another big leap with D800 (D700x) & D8000 (D95) combination at Photokina. The quality kit lens is ready, the market is there & the time has arrived. Both cameras appeal to a wide gamut of preferences.

    • guillermo

      if they said that d90 would have iso performance of the d700 and there’s new rumors of d800 , would nikon goes fx on the new d90 with same mp but hd video aswelll?

      • Global

        Seems like no one actually has said the ISO will be that high. So that’s a complete unknown.

    • Anonymous

      Here’s my take on Nikon’s direction: aware that public perception (in some quarters) is based on MP count, and given that 8MP mobile phones are now common, and 12MP ones are on the way (Nokia N8, etc), they’re trying to establish the new DSLR ranges as truly high-end again. The ‘EVIL’ mould then be a stop-gap between the high-end compacts (P7000) and the D3100 upwards. The specs of the D3100 and in particular D90 replacement may seem excessively optimistic, but why doubt them if this proposed direction is to happen? My guess is they’ll consolidate the consumer DX range to just those two models, perhaps with a view to expanding the EVIl range once released, make the D300S replacement a cut-down D700 complete with FX (possibly 16MP too but better build/speed/sealing), replace the D700 withmodel close to the current D3, update the D3S to 24MP, and possibly use Sony’s forthcoming 30MP sensors for a D4 range. This is pure speculation, but I reckon it’s the direction Nikon will take…

      • Richard

        That sounds plausible. We will see.

      • Denko

        Hm… my take on it would be that there will not be any more D5000 nor a D90 grade at all… too expensive (not enough return) to make low end DSLR’s… The D3100… I find it more likely to be a smoke and mirrors leak/plant… to top it off being “unveiled” a Friday 13th… somethings fishy with things.

        If the old Nikon management was still at the helm we would have seen D4, D400 and a D800 at photokina this year. 16 bit 18MP… the “dumping” of the film scanners indicate that they have the tech ready but I guess the economy of the market is that people don’t have the money to spend on that kind of jump in technology… so here we are… all of us spinning the wheels in the mud.

        Whine? Sure it is whining… I want value for my hard earned money and I am not willing to part with it until I find something that does just that for what I need and that covers my previous expenses on gear.

      • PHB

        Completely ludicrous.

        There is no possibility that Nikon is going to discontinue the Professional DX body at this point. And there is very little chance that the consumer line will be reduced to only two models.

        In market share terms, the FX body cameras are irrelevant. They are purely halo effect models. Nikon spends many times the revenues from the D3x placing adverts for it. The point of the ‘Meet the Boss’ campaign is to sell D3000/D5000 bodies, not D3x bodies.

        In the short term the D3100 is going to enter the market above the old D5000. But expect both bodies to be heavily discounted off the RRP pretty rapidly. Once the D5000 stocks are exhausted, expect a new swivel screen version of the D95 with simplified controls and no AF motor.

        If the ISO ratings are genuine (i.e. this is a genuine ISO 12800 setting, not a new name for HI2) the D3100 is giving better low light performance than the current D700. That is not outside the bounds of possibility. If true the whole Nikon range is obsolete and we can expect the D4/D400 launch early in 2012.

        If that really is the case then many people won’t need the ISO 25600 setting that the D4 / D800 provide at 16MP. The only reason to go to FX is if you need ISO 12800 at 24MP.

        It is not impossible that Nikon has managed to advance the state of the art in noise performance by three stops. They did precisely that with the D3 generation launch. But it seems a little more likely that maybe what they did was just label HI2 as ISO 12800. In that case nothing in particular has changed. The D3100 is just a slightly higher resolution sensor in the D40 body. There is no reason to expect anything else will change.

    • The Man from Mandrem

      I read somewhere that Sony was planning to stop making FX chips (they didn’t have the critical market size). Was that correct or incorrect information?

      Just speculating, but if that rumor were true and Sony expects to be competitive with a smaller chip size wouldn’t they have to benchmark the D700 for their higher end chips? Sony would have to be seeing results on what they are putting into production now that justify that. I would take that to mean that DX sensors this generation would have to approach the last generations FX ISO capability and Nikon would have access to time improvements. I do think the D3100 will have 12800 ISO as a Hi setting and a narrower true ISO range, but the choice of D3xxx vs. D4xxx as name implies at least another product in between it and the D95/D8xxxx/D7xxx so you would have to expect a dramatic improvement in output between the two models. I think you have to be careful looking at positioning of old products (even 1 year old) vs. new offerings. Competitive markets usually favor 2 major and 1 minor players in terms of market share. If you bundle the mirrorless and the mirrored solutions together you’ve got tremendous competition and Nikon needs to have compelling offers to maintain/improve it’s positioning through the disruptive change. This is regarding the consumer market vs. pro, but consumer market positioning will have longer term consequence for competition and pricing for pro and is nothing to be sneered at in terms of a revenue stream.

      Anyways if DX really gets that good, it boggles the mind how good FX could be.

      • PHB

        It would not surprise me if Sony stopped doing FX.

        Lets face it, Sony has not managed to break into the Pro ranks, despite trying very hard. And without a pro market it is hard to persuade people you are going to make a full line of pro lenses. And without pro lenses an FX sensor is pointless.

        Sony would probably do much better to punt on the DSLR market more or less entirely and concentrate on interchangeable mirrorless. Moving back from FX and concentrating on crop frame would make sense.

        • zzddrr

          PHB – sony does not want to go after the PROs. Sony wants to go after those people who already own sony products and look for “more expensive” or “top of the line” equipments. Sony is clearly after the consumer segment and not the pros. Keep in mind that to look good among the Nikon and Canon items, sony has no other choice but to have a limited FX line. Even though the sony FX line is not the best seller, it is not a loss maker. In fact, it complements the sale of lower end models because those users also look at the entire line.

    • le_eiji

      The rule of thumb is the lesser the MP count, the better the ISO performance, provided that the sensor size stays the same. So technically, it is not possible for a D95 with 16 MP count to outperform D3100 with 14MP count in the ISO performance. Also, considering the short span of time, no DX camera will outperform a D700 in ISO performance. Just look at the data in DxO Mark. D700 is thrice better than D90 in noise performance. In fact, D90 is way noisier than 5D which was released about 5 years ago. I predict it will take another 20 year for any DXs to catch up with a D700 in noise performance.

      • PHB

        That is assuming that the same sensor technology is used.

        In practice the difference between 14MP and 16MP is so small as to be irrelevant. If the MP count is doubled, the pixel site size is halved and so it will receive half the amount of light and so you would expect the ISO rating to drop by one stop

        14MP to 16MP is about 15% and we don’t measure 15% of a stop.

        • zzddrr

          if you double the pixel count the pixel size would not be half.

          • Eric Duminil

            Yes it would.
            The pixel area would be half, the length for both pixel sides would be ~ -29.2%.

    • D95 should be FX, low price 8Mp with built in motor and flash. For those who work with FX, going back to DX is pain even for home use.

      • Richard

        I think you forget that there is still a useful segment for a DX sensor. Wildlife photography really does benefit from the crop factor with telephotos to pull in birds and whatnot. I saw an image the other day that was taken with a 1.6 crop factor body with a 400 mm lens and 1.4 tele-extender…that is almost 900 mm equivalent! There are other uses as well. It just depends.

        For a lower end camera, another benefit of the crop factor is less expensive lenses.

        • there are no good cheap DX lenses. Older lenses often make no sense as they have different view angle. For FX? You need 35f2, 50f1.8, 85 f1.8 and be done. For DX? 24G, 50G and new 35G to make up for lost light, DOF and view angle. Even Pro zooms are not smaller or really cheaper.
          And costs of sensor would not make it deal or no deal. Look t Sony Alpha. D95 FX mit low MP can cost 1100Eur and still make lot of moneys. Sensor it self cost less then 50Eur to manufacture at given successrate.
          And i agree, that DX is still needed (best teleconverter), BUT WE HAVE ALREADY ALL THE BEST DXs. And more will come. It is not if, or.

      • The cost of a FX sensor will always cost more. So lowing the mp on it won’t really low the price.

        • I agree, but I wonder, what fraction of the price of a DSLR is the sensor? FX cameras have much more than just a different sensor in them.

          Nikon could probably make a D90ish thing work with FX without adding things like more processing power, card slots, snazzy af modes, slick metering, super RAW, viewfinder accuracy, metal, rubber, sealing. You probably need a new prism, maybe shutter, and some other stuff, and you may have a bit of a mismatched camera, but it would still be an improvement, and may not cost as much as we think, or it could cost much more. Anyone out there know the production costs of the D700 and D90 sensors?

          I don’t believe, or even dream, that nikon will take this path, but it brings up some interesting possibilities.

          • El Aura

            We can take a guess of FX-DX sensor price delta by comparing the D300(s) and D700 prices. They are basically the same cameras except for sensor, mirror, prism and viewfinder. Currently the D700 is $900 more expensive.
            If you add these $900 to the $900 a D90 body currently fetches, a D90-style FX might cost $1800.

            • Good idea, thanks!

            • IIRC, Señor Thom guesstimated on his blog about a month ago that if a Nikon DX sensor cost $40, a FX ran about $400.

      • IndyGeoff

        How about they give us an 18MP+ FF that you can lower to 12ish and 6ish when you want better iso performance ? We both win that way.

        • Or for better fps performance

    • So pumped for the D90 replacement 😀

    • Petr Klapper

      There’s one important variable here and it’s the age of the sensor. Newer 16mp (D95) could have better ISO performance than 14mp (D3100) simply because it could be 6months younger and/or more expensive. Also because all DX and some FX chips come from Sony it’s most probable the D3100 chip is the same as in lower end alphas, nex 3/5, etc. (with better Nikon image processing) and the high ISO is only paper-high, slightly better than the previous DX chip. Also there’s no way the ISO would ‘jump’ almost 2 EVs to D700 level even with the same mp count so soon – check dxomark.com, all newer DX chips are almost on the same level, only resolution is different – take latest canon’s 18mp 7D chip, they keep the ISO signal/noise almost the same last few generations. And lastly, since there’s no significantly better DX chip from other vendor, why would Nikon lower the value of one of it’s most important cameras even if they could ?

      • Don’t forget that the sensors in today’s cameras are already 4 to 6 years old. That’s how long the manufacturers usually plan ahead. Probably the D3100 already existed on a drawing board 4 years ago.

    • D90

      Im planning to buy D90 kit next week. Is it a good idea to buy now or there is a chance of price drop.

      • fel

        I am quite positive that there will be a great price drop after 3 months.
        I also want to buy a D90 but the price is still high. The price here in Greece is around 900 euros (with the 18-105 VR kit). I feel that D3100 isn’t going to be better in ISO performance than D90.

    • My guess is that Nikon will release D3100 with 12800 ISO, then “D95″ with 25600ISO. Then, lots of folks looking only at number and owning a D700 will start to be a bit disappointed and will ask tehmselves:” if a camera for one fourth of the D700’s price does as good, and has video, what’s the point?” Then… they will be ready… Ready for what? Ready to buy another new camera priced as D700, let’s call it “D700s”, including D3s’s sensor and HD video… Result: many second hand D700 back on the market, and “D700s” being a bestseller…
      Why do I write that?
      1) I own a D700, my first reaction when I saw these rumors and facts was to be disappointed as I wrote above… Then I thought a bit and realised how silly this would be, D700 being still the perfect camera for what I’m doing… I don’t need more or “better”…
      2) this would make a perfect schedule, D3s is one year old, D4 is probably on the way…

      So I guess D3100, “D95” a bit later and “D700s” (“D700x”?) until christmas. And then D400 and D4 in spring…

      • Being able to set it at 25K ISO won’t mean IQ will get even close to that of D700 or D3. DR, noise, etc.

      • GL

        No Nikon D700 replacement will be announced until 1st quarter 2011, the D400 will be announced at the same time with shipping in 2nd quarter 2011.
        A D90 replacement and the new a G11 type competitor will be announced in August/September 2010 and shipped in December 2010.
        The D4 will be announced in 4th quarter 2011 and be shipped in 2nd quarter 2012 a few months before the London Olympics.

    • You are completely right, but I also think it’s a little unfair to compare those two cameras. The d80 is a cheaper, older camera with a CCD, the 300 a more expensive, newer one with a CMOS.

      Unfortunately I think this means we can’t guess how much improvement there will be, because the last jump included a sensor change (80 to 90, 200 to 300, both CCD to CMOS). These two latest DX improvements (I have no idea what is going on down lower with the 40, 60, 3000, 5000) were tremendous, but now what more can they change? And how much effect will it have?

      (and the 300 to 300s update was relatively small)

      • Bobby

        Well don’t they have backlit CMOS sensors now compared to the traditional CMOS sensors used in the D300 and D90?

        • Good point, I’m trying to do a little research on them right now. Theoretically, it should increase iso performance because the sensor gets more direct light, and though I don’t understand how, one source claimed that it improved burst (fps) performance (Maybe the reason for the surprising 8-6fps?). It depends where the bottle neck is in the camera.

        • After more quick research, I am hopeful about improvements. Wiki (don’t trust this then) stated that a backlit ccd could capture 50% more light than a conventional one, and I read about this Kodak technology where there are 4 pixels, RGB, and essentially a brightness pixel. This 4th pixel has no color filter on it, so not only is it more sensitive, it can reduce noise by either agreeing with, or disagreeing with a stray photon that makes it into one of the adjacent colored pixels. This seems to me to be an amazing technology! Even if Nikon does not use it, because they aren’t besties with Kodak, Imagine the technology to reconstruct the brightness of a “hot spot” pixel, by knowing the total luminosity that should be captured by the 3 color pixels. If 1 of them is off, then it’s brightness could be adjusted to match the expected total of the pixel group. I want to be an optical/electrical engineer and work on this stuff!

          Anyways, if this kind of innovation is happening, why can’t nikon have something as great? We know sony has produced backlit sensors.

    • LGO

      It should not be long after the release of the 16mp D90-replacement that one will begin hearing complaints that this “camera” is not sharp after comparing this with its 12mp predecessor without understanding that it is their lenses that is sub-par, not the camera body.

      What many will not realize is that the increase from 12mp to 16mp will present significant challenges to their lenses. If their lenses are barely able or are already sub-par at 12mp, buying the D90-replacement will invariably mean buying better lenses to make the most of the resolution increase from 12mp to 16mp.

      Canon users would have had some experience in this regard. For Nikon, the number of users who know this would be quite limited as there is no Nikon dSLR that has more than 12mp other than the D3x. Those who bought the D3x immediately saw the limitations of some of their lenses when they started shooting at 24mp and have had to upgrade their lenses that before that were working fine with 12mp bodies.

      “We want more megapixel in our Nikon dSLRs!”

      Well, you will soon be getting higher resolution in the D90-replacement. Just make sure that you have the right lenses to go with that.

    • LGO

      It would make more sense for Nikon to name the D90-replacement as a “Dxxxx” rather than a “D95” to rationalize and make sense of the model name of its cameras. This is why I have always referred to this camera as a D90-replacement and never as a D95.

      Hopefully sometime in the future, “Dxx” would be used for FF sensors in D90/D5000-type bodies.

    • Admin: how sure you are about D90+ being 16MP? Sony or Nikon?

      Will Nikon carry 3 different sensors, and D400 may even carry even a 4th one, Nikon designed?

      • Yes, I am pretty sure the new D90 will use the 16MP sensor from Sony and I am sure it will be modified by Nikon.

        • rhlpetrus

          Thanks, then likely D400 will use same sensor with 14 bits, like D300s does with the 12MP sensor. And video, 1080p or 1080i?

    • DX cameras are not going to go away. They are here to stay a long time. I have 5 DX Nikon bodies and the D700. In most instances when I go to photograph I pick up the DX cameras. Guys in my shop ALWAYS use the DX cameras. I love the D700 and feel it was a good investment but I do not regard it as a magic solution in digital photography. I use it most for landscapes and in low light. I own some pretty high end Nikkor FX glass plus a smattering of X lenses. I think the 18-200VR and the 70-300VR are the single most useful lenses. I do not think higher MP Nikons are going to surprise us with wonderful ISO capability. Some of my Nikkor FX lens are among the best ever made according to the Nikon reps. FX is not going to suddenly dominate DSLR.

    • I don’t really care what they call the numbers, as long as I can shoot lower light pictures with better resolution I’m all for it!

    • Nicola

      Wild guess:After D3s,D300s,the D90 successor will be named D90s

      • Anon

        The -s suffix is added for new variations with small improvements. Look at D70s, D2Xs, D2Hs, and so on. No major changes, just small tweaks. The most dramatic upgrade in a version designated -s must be the D3s, whose low-light performance was siginificantly improved. Still, it’s more or less the same camera, just slightly better. D90’s replacement, however, will according to this information be radically different from the current D90, so they’ll call it something else because it really is something completely new.

    • rhlpetrus

      Interesting, I just checked Amazon and D3000 is the best-selling dslr in their list. D90 is 4th and D700 is ahead of 5DII. D3s is only pro FF in top 100. Nikon is surely happy.

      • PHB

        That is not usual.

        Usually Amazon has the D90 over the D3000. The reason is that Costco sell the D3000 by the pallet load. But as the complete lack of D3000 bodies at Costoc this tax-fee weekend demonstrates, there are no D3000 left in the Costco chain and probably not any in Best Buy or the like either. I would guess that a lot of would be D90 buyers are waiting for the replacement as well.

        We will probably see the last few being pushed out through Amazon and Costco.com and other Internet outlets.

    • NiknWontRepairMyGray

      Why do people still insist that the D3100/D95 ISO performance might be able to match the D700? sure it is “possible” but given the likelihood that the D3100 will be using the same/modified version of the sensor found in the NEX-5, then it is UNLIKELY for the D3100’s ISO performance (in terms of DR, Noise, etc.) to match the D700. The NEX-5 only performs slightly better than the current range of DX sensors and if you check DXOmark’s rating, its high ISO noise performance is actually WORST than the D5000.

      Ok, so Nikon has proven they have the ability to tweak Sony’s sensor to give it a slight edge, it is still not enough to boost the performance to that of the D700. And perhaps the D95’s sensor might perform better than the 14mp one found in the NEX-5, they are nevertheless both in the same generation so to expect the performance to jump to the D700 level is pure fantasy (which I have).

      “D700-like” ISO/noise performance is probably fake or the author actually meant D700-like ISO range. Whatever it is, you folks should stop dreaming about the upcoming D3100/D95 matching the D700 ISO performance. It’s very unlikely, I’m willing to bet my $25 chinese point and shoot camera on it.

      • Agree, bs.

      • jastereo

        +1
        D3100 (at 14MP) will have iso performance SLIGHTLY better than the D90/D300 & D300s/D5000 (all having basically the same sensor) and that’s even though it has slightly more MP’s. It’s just that much newer a chip! Do you think sony/nikon have been sitting still since the D300 came out in late 2007…

        The D90 replacement will, again, have similar (slightly better) iso performance than the 12MP DX’s even given it’s new 16MP sensor; for the same reason – it’s that much newer and nikon didn’t get out of control and give is 18MP’s like canon’s doing for it’s cropped sensors.

        I suspect this same sensor (16mp Sony/Nikon tweaked) will be in the D400 when it comes out as well. Probably tweaked a bit more, by then, to do just a bit better noise wise (just like the D90 did vs the D300). The D90 just happened to be up for replacement first and Nikon needs a big win w/this one given it’s where so much money is made, the success of the D90, etc.

        Plus, if true, the metal body really puts a new spin on things….
        That was a major ding against nikon in that midrange segment (Canon 30/40D range and some Pentax’s, etc had metal and some sealing). I know I would have paid a bit more to have it when I bought a D90.
        Also makes it more attractive to a working pro/aspiring amateur who wants to add some video capabilities or have a “newer” higher MP DX for a second body or some longer length when needed (until that D400 comes out).

        Oh, and on that high iso noise side…neither will get close to the D3/D700. Even if they get a whole stop better (unlikely given more MP’s) they’re still not there.

    • Daniel Bottner

      Using electronic imaging systems now called “digital cameras” for 20 years, so I am not impressed by larger mega-pixel sensors. Looking for dynamic range, for image resolution 6 to 7 stops above and below the exposure midpoint. The biggest issue with digital camera image quality as I see it. I believe there is information to support the idea that the D700 and the D3s have this capability today, our ability to capture this data . . . limited by firmware. Emerging technologies and competitive pressures imply wide dynamic range sensors will be coming very soon.

      I will share more details and ideas if there is any interest.

      • The Man from Mandrem

        I’m actually very interested to understand your comments in as much detail as you are willing to share. Please do explain, especially the part about latent capability to be unleashed in firmware.

        • Daniel Bottner

          Image sensor dynamic range info is available on http://www.dxomark.com. When comparing the dynamic range graphs of the D3x and the D3s. On the D3x; a straight line indicating, dynamic range increasing as the ISO decreases. On the D3s and the D700 the graph a curved line, which seems to indicate that as the ISO decreases below ISO 800 the dymanic range has been limited through firmware. If you were to project the dynamic range increase we see on the D3x chart here, we would bee looking at 14 stops of dynamic range at ISO 200.

      • NiknWontRepairMyGray

        yea please elaborate on this “information” and details that you have.

        • Daniel Bottner

          Checked nikon pro camera history; they seem to like to keep their pro cameras on the market for 2 to 3 years. So the next series of pro cameras need to include capabilities to be released into the consumer market within that timeframe. About 6 months ago it was announced that someone had developed a cheap coating to spray on image sensors which would double the dynamic range and low light sensitivity. They seemed confident that this would be used on all cell phone camera image sensors within 18 months. So we may well be seeing cell phone image sensors with 14 to 16 stops within the next 12 months. Nikon needs to have a competitive product on the market.

          • Eric Pepin

            People announce that they develop things all the time, and 99 percent of those announcements end up nowhere.

            were not gonna see 16 stops on a cellphone anytime soon and maybe never.

    • DaveyJ

      Daniel Bottner has about the best point here. Dynamic range is I believe about the most important issue in DSLR camera abilities or lack thereof. I see a steady improvement from Nikon there already and from what little I know there is more to follow soon. I do think low light shooting ability is very important and it is the primary reason I ever pick up my D700. But my D90 is quite good in dynamic range and the D300 s still my best wildlife camera. I don’t have the D300s but have seen results from it that impressed me. The D300s dual card and on board video alone are features I sure would have used this July!

    • Scott

      Replacement for the D90 will be the D7000 according to stuff starting to circulate now…

      New lineup will be :

      D3100
      D5000
      D7000
      D300s
      D700
      D3s
      D3x

    • Anonymous

      Scott, what stuff starting to circulate? All the signs point to the D5000 being dropped, and rightly so given that the D3100 outspecs it in every way.

      • Mika

        I don’t think Nikon will drop the D5000, that would leave a huge price gap in their line.

        D3100 – $650 (I assume this since it’s 650 Eur)
        D95 – $1200 (for body)

        My guess is that they will probably release a D5100 or a D6000. This might be a D3100 with tilt screen and some other features or perhaps it’s a dumbed down version of the D95 that can compete with the Canon 550D. As of now the D95 seems a bit expensive and Nikon will probably loose market shares in the important D90/550D segment if this price is correct.

        • Anonymous

          no, i don’t think so. d3000/d5000 were to similar. imho a tilt screen on the canon 60d is very likely (http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-eos-60d-picture/) the new canon60d seems to be a direct competitor to the d90 replacement. so a tilt screen might be a important factor to keep up with such a 60d and buying the nikon d90 replacement not a canon.

          btw. i don’t believe in the “d95” naming. such a name would be counterproductive. it suggests only minor improvements.

          • Eric Pepin

            most consumers dont care about the tilt screen. I sell cameras every day (except days off 😛 ) and have almost never seen a customer that cared. I have to sell them on the tilt screen even, what customers do want is the biggest brightest screen they can find, tilt screen technology currently makes screens smaller, not bigger which is a problem.

          • Mika

            The D3000 and D5000 are not that similiar, different sensors, tilt screen, not tilt screen, size, etc.

            Also I’m talking about a successor to the D5000 that might be quite different compared to the current D5000. What I wanted to illustrate is that Nikon needs another DSLR between the D3100 and D95/D8000 (call it whatever you want, no name has been anounced yet) because of the price gap between the models.

    • The Man from Mandrem

      Out of c

    • Baked Bananas

      YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHYHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Expeed 2?!?!?!?!?!?!?

      D90 replacement will have BETTER ISO than a D700!!?!?!?!?!?

      Its sound too good to be true….. didn’t the d700 have expeed 1? So if I really don’t need a lot of focusing points and blazing speed, although i want to take better pictures at night with higher shutter speeds, and i really don’t want to shoot in the rain…..and I want to buy a better built camera than a crappy canon and I mainly want to SHOOT PICTURES AND NOT FU#K WITH VIDEO…..I should skip the d700 entirely? Also what does expeed 2 do better than expeed 1? No one seems to be talking about it. Nikon certainly isn’t talking.

      Looks like from this point on….d700 iso capabilities will be in All nikon slrs from this point on. All starting at about $675!!!!!! (lens not included)

      Maybe this is the surprise nikon was talking about. Makes you wonder about the D4.

      Admin can you give us more info on expeed 2 and which slrs will have it?

    • The Man from Mandrem

      Out of curiosity, there was nice article on Sony websites about Sony Exmor R (backlit Image CMOS) giving many dB improvement. Is Exmor R used in DSLR? Is it expected to be?

    • What happened to Lightroom 3.1?

      • Probably should have just RTFA:

        “Please note that we have skipped a “version number” with this release going directly from Lightroom 3.0 to Lightroom 3.2. The goal is to reduce any confusion about which camera support update of Lightroom corresponds to a camera support update of the Camera Raw plug-in in Photoshop CS5. The “dot” number of 2 is now aligned between Lightroom 3.2 and Camera Raw 6.2 and we’ll keep those aligned going forward.”

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