where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
Would you worry about any sort of lighting outside other then natural light? Would be a group of 16 people so it even possible outside to do anything? I would switch off between my 17-55 and 105 depending on what other portraits they want.
As of now I am backup in case the other person can't do it.
I don't shoot this kind of thing often....but as someone who has tried it the "natural light" route.... I would strongly recommend against it. It is very difficult to not to have some pretty bad shadows without light. Speedlights aren't the answer either....you need a lot more power.
I use the garyFong with the chrome dome:
I'm not a huge fan of his stuff, but his kits do fit a bunch of situations and are very portable and do most things fairly well. There are better ways to light using boxes or unbrellas.
If you are looking for settings, for fill flash outdoors I generally find the exposure (w/o flash) then go manual 1-2 stops down and then use auto flash to fill and get the correct exposure on the subject.
Great videos give a lot to think about. Some other considerations... if, the lighting is soft, and possibly a bright building, wall, etc., can be behind the camera position to act as fill light, then avoiding flash can be useful. I like to get everyone in sync with the lips, blinks, eyes open, on three stuff, then shoot a burst of 5 or so frames at 5 - 10 FPS. This allows my to delete the "blinkers" and have a good shot with all the eyes open. Gaining control of the subject is important and this can be accomplished by gentle verbal instructions and monitoring who might not be paying attention. Then redo the shot immediately if someone is not paying attention.
The problem with shadows is the 2 - 3 f/stops less exposure in the dark areas cannot always be restored in PP. So, in bright sun, the fill flash with single frame must be used.
Remember, I like an "available light effect" so this needs to be understood when I say anything.
I've shot groups outside (not enough to call myself really good at it though) and as much as I would have loved for available light to work (and it can depending on sunlight, positioning, shadows) there's always that little pop of clarity and focus that a fill flash renders. Bright sunlight can give you harsh shadows across faces plus squinting subjects, overcast skys can render dull low contrast faces (raising ISO helps here). Opening aperture helps here as well but now you're intoducing more ambient light which could affect your background. Maybe I read too much Strobist dot com or MacNally but a SC-28/29 cabled strobe or CLS triggered SB-900/910 may be good in this case- depending on the situation. I'm thinking this way because I've recently done a lot of outside portrait shooting with my SB-900 connected to the camera via a SC-28 cable. The flash was on a tripod either camera left or right and I've gotten beautifully satisfying results.
For the groups, if the group is positioned properly in reference to the available light and the area is metered properly then you should be able to get good results.
On camera Flash diffusers ,including the Gary Fond, are not very effective outside, as they have nothing to "bounce" off
On a bright day, fill in flash may be working at full power, so if if doing a burst at 4 fps, it may not have recharged; higher ISO will help and use the highest sync speed possible
If in bright sunlight, try and find some shade
As Ms moto says, getting everyone attention is vital, so do not allow any other photographers near you, as they are likely to distract people
If you have them, try several SB900s behind two big umbrellas ( i use pocket wizards to trigger them )
I got half way through typing a reply last night, so I'll just quickly add my 2c worth now...
last week we did an outside daylight (late morning) shoot with very hard light of a group of 8 people. Used a 24-70 lens on a D4 with an SB-800 in a Lastolight Easylight just above and to the right of my shoulder. I had to do a few test shots to get the balance between the flash and daylight pleasing (just filling in the shadows) in the bright direct sun.
Could have done the same with a reflector just out of shot if it was a single person or perhaps just two people and tighter in than a group that large. That's about the most I have ever done outside. Inside, the classic use of a flash, bouncing it off a side wall to be a fake window thing, with one or two people. I have a great one of those I'll post on PAD if I can remember... converted it to B&W. Killer photograph but I agree with MsMoto to try and keep it as natural/simple as possible.
I used to do office and team groups quite a lot. We were outside on steps and I'd arrange everyone in two or three lines bosses in the middle, center row and everyone else arranged around them. Used TWO of those Lastolights with flashes in them. one each side and it is always a tough job and a half as some joker always wants to stick his (it's always a man) tongue out or make some other rude sign. This was BEFORE I realized I needed to bring one of our models along (as an assistant), to tell a joke or two and dare I say this, to otherwise "distract" the tongue poking out guys...
I ended up always being asked to do those assignments again when the men were the managers... Wonder why? ;-)
bjrichus
How do you trigger the SB800s? I have found the IR unreliable, as the sensor is inside the Easylight .
sevencrossing said:
bjrichusHow do you trigger the SB800s? I have found the IR unreliable, as the sensor is inside the Easylight .
Yes. It is 'inconsistent' in those isn't it? It failed to trigger on one shot out of the three 'proper' shots we did outside. Inside (a large atrium with consistent but much less intense indirect daylight), it was fine. You have to be close to but not touching the shade and it was just behind me, so I guess that is enough?
Can also use a radio popper...
Thanks for all the replies. Does anyone use constant lighting or are strobes really the way to go? Someone had a $500 set of 3 lights for $150 on craigslist that I was looking at. I need to get some lights/strobes, but I have been procrastinating it until I got a new body.
It turns out they got the original photographer they were trying to get, but I said to keep me in mind in the future. Actually my family is coming for thanksgiving so it would be another good time to have lights for it. I have been wanting some anyway and it would give me the opportunity to maybe do some more portrait work because I don't really right now. Some people have hinted around at it, but I was always a little weary I didn't have the right stuff to do it well. I don't plan on setting up a portait studio in my house or anything like that.
Trying to balance bright daylight, needs a lot of power
A big reflector ( Sunbounce ), is good but cumbersome, big advantage, little to go wrong and you can "see" what you are doing. You need an assistant
Continuous lighting is unlikely to have enough power, unless the day light is poor
If you can dictate the time, then sunset is ideal
In the middle of the day, the only soft flash that is going to work is a powerful, expensive, studio unit
On camera direct flash (with out a diffuser) is the cheap and cheerful solution . Try doing some practice shots under different lighting using models of different ages
keep the ISO as low as possible and stop down to f8 if there is any depth to the group
A nice way to address natural light on your subject/group verse using flash or strobes, and much more cost effective is a reflector. All you need is the right size and a person to hold it with...though sometimes you may need two for large groups. Moreover, they really come in handy by having your subjec (s) not facing the sun which help reduce the eye strain (ie blinks, odd facile expressions, them not having to where sun glasses.)
If you get one make sure it has all 4 reflectors; hence, a defuser, silver, gold and black.
Cheers...
A potential problem with continuous lighting is the color balance. Unless you have some exotic daylight balanced light source, the fill will be yellow and the rest of the image will be blue. The easiest solution may be subjects in open shade, facing the bright light, a direct single flash up and to the side a couple feet. This would fill slightly and give a highlight in the eyes, if the image is large enough.
I too would think to use continuous lighting outside it'd have to be very high wattage. Although I have considered getting continuous for inside portraits. Just don't do it enough to justify it.
If I did outside group shooting enough, and actually got paid for it, I'd have at least 2 SB-900/910's, a couple of light stands, 2 remote TTL receivers (Pocket Wizards perhaps) and a transmitter. Luckily for my wallet I don't.
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