What is with these new Zeiss lenses and lacking AF

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What is with these new Zeiss lenses and lacking AF

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bmxdad

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shutterdancer said:
Here is a point I haven't heard mentioned....back when I was using a MF Nikon....the screens were actually worth a damn. With my bad eyes, the modern screens are terrible if you want to use MF.I mostly do macro and closeup work....but like I said because of inferior DSLR focus screens and my bad eyes, I usually have to use a MF AF combo. This always results in more deleted shots than I would like.

You can get better focus screens but then I think A/F might suffer, I do know the screen makes your view finder look darker

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
Panamon_Creel

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bmxdad said:
You can get better focus screens but then I think A/F might suffer, I do know the screen makes your view finder look darker

Pete

3rd party focus screen like Katz Eye don't have an effect on AF performance but can effect light metering under certain circumstances.

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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Panamon_Creel said:
3rd party focus screen like Katz Eye don't have an effect on AF performance but can effect light metering under certain circumstances.

Yes I have been looking at them, but would they not affect my cameras ability to shoot sports "D300", I think it would be fun to have on a second camera

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
Panamon_Creel

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bmxdad said:
Yes I have been looking at them, but would they not affect my cameras ability to shoot sports "D300", I think it would be fun to have on a second camera

Pete

I got a Katz Eye with Opti Brite on my D300, it works great and can't imagine that it would effect your sport shooting ability. The product details on the Katz Eye website explain the conditions where the light metering is affected (slow lenses in conjunction with spot metering).

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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Panamon_Creel said:
I got a Katz Eye with Opti Brite on my D300, it works great and can't imagine that it would effect your sport shooting ability. The product details on the Katz Eye website explain the conditions where the light metering is affected (slow lenses in conjunction with spot metering).

Your Katz Eye with Opti Brite is the one I have considered getting, I rarely spot meter, newer when shooting sports, Would the viewfinder be darker with my 70-200 2.8, Is it difficult to install, Sorry for the long list of questions ;>)

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
Panamon_Creel

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bmxdad said:
Your Katz Eye with Opti Brite is the one I have considered getting, I rarely spot meter, newer when shooting sports, Would the viewfinder be darker with my 70-200 2.8, Is it difficult to install, Sorry for the long list of questions ;>)

Pete

No problem.
With f/2.8 max aperture it is as bright as the standard viewfinder, the micro prism and split prism areas start to get darker if the lens max. f-stop gets to 5.6+
Installation is not difficult but isn't something for the clumsy :). They include a tool that helps you with opening/closing the retaining clip and I just recommend to have a pair of flat tip tweezers for removal/insertion of the screens. Just pay attention to the shims that are behind the original screen, be careful to position them correctly when inserting the new screen and closing the retaining clip.

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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Panamon_Creel said:
No problem.
With f/2.8 max aperture it is as bright as the standard viewfinder, the micro prism and split prism areas start to get darker if the lens max. f-stop gets to 5.6+
Installation is not difficult but isn't something for the clumsy :). They include a tool that helps you with opening/closing the retaining clip and I just recommend to have a pair of flat tip tweezers for removal/insertion of the screens. Just pay attention to the shims that are behind the original screen, be careful to position them correctly when inserting the new screen and closing the retaining clip.

Thanks

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
monty11

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Zeiss and AF sounds like a sports car with an automatic gearbox ... they aren't just used in the same sentence.

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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monty11 - actually more and more sports cars are starting to use automatic gearboxes, as this transmissions are faster, so I hope that one day Zeiss will launch some AF-S lenses for Nikon

Posted 3 years ago #
mb

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adamz said:
monty11 - actually more and more sports cars are starting to use automatic gearboxes, as this transmissions are faster, so I hope that one day Zeiss will launch some AF-S lenses for Nikon

Why would they? People buying those lenses could not care less; they do not use them to make photos anyway but to brag about it.

Posted 3 years ago #
ted2001

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Come on mb, isn't that reverse snobism? I have every intention of getting the 100/2 macro and using it.

btw, almost all formula racing cars have automatic transmissions. Racing Porsche's have used tritronic automatics for years. A manual doesn't make it a sports car, it just makes it old fashioned and slower.

Posted 3 years ago #
shutterdancer

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The Katz Eye screens are OK....but it would be nice if Nikon offered an old type K screen as an option....then no need to fiddle with after market BS!!

I almost didn't post this....for a minute....I thought that I was on the car and driver forum ;^)

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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ted2001 said:
Come on mb, isn't that reverse snobism? I have every intention of getting the 100/2 macro and using it.

btw, almost all formula racing cars have automatic transmissions. Racing Porsche's have used tritronic automatics for years. A manual doesn't make it a sports car, it just makes it old fashioned and slower.

I my love for F1 has really gone downhill ever since the F1 chief's whole Nazi themed hooker party video came out! Really, I'm not joking!

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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NikoDoby said:
I my love for F1 has really gone downhill ever since the F1 chief's whole Nazi themed hooker party video came out! Really, I'm not joking!

+1 Creeptown!

Posted 3 years ago #
oneANT

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mb said:
Why would they? People buying those lenses could not care less; they do not use them to make photos anyway but to brag about it.

Are you serious ...maybe its more about you hiding your Sigmas in the same box as your girly magazines, if I was you i'd put them under the magazines ...afterall you dont want to shock your mum when she cleans your room. Finding a Sigma could break her heart.

Posted 3 years ago #
oneANT

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You experts really dont have a clue ...do you (not a question).

If the Zeiss zf lenses were AF then the optics would change and then there would no longer be the IQ and the reason to buy them. Further these lenses are designed for MF and are not designed somehow missing AF. And to those that suggest MF on and AF lens ...try it yourself, its crap.

As for not being able to use MF, do you also use one of those electric scooters to walk.

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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exit here said:
Are you serious ...maybe its more about you hiding your Sigmas in the same box as your girly magazines, if I was you i'd put them under the magazines ...afterall you dont want to shock your mum when she cleans your room. Finding a Sigma could break her heart.

Anyway my old MF 50mm Nikon just broke, it just does not focus sharp for some reason, no it is not my eyes, although they do need more help with reading glasses each year.
Anyway I just un-packed my new AF Nikon 50MM 1.8 and what great low cost lens that one actually is, sorry Zeiss, due to money and MF issues your little 50mm will have to wait for some other day

I wonder how this one works with my reverse adapter, maybe that was what broke the old lens, nah it was just old

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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exit here said:
You experts really dont have a clue ...do you (not a question).

If the Zeiss zf lenses were AF then the optics would change and then there would no longer be the IQ and the reason to buy them. Further these lenses are designed for MF and are not designed somehow missing AF. And to those that suggest MF on and AF lens ...try it yourself, its crap.

As for not being able to use MF, do you also use one of those electric scooters to walk.

Welcome to the forum, exit. I think there isn't a physical reason why the optics would need to change to add AF. Worst case scenario is that the lens would be fatter and the AF could be slow since the throw of MF lenses' focus rings might be longer. You can't argue that moving the elements with a screw mechanism necessarily degrades optical quality since those same elements are moved by your hand during manual focus.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Exit Here, throwing insults isn't going to help get your point across so tone it down.

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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exit here said:
You experts really dont have a clue ...do you (not a question).

If the Zeiss zf lenses were AF then the optics would change and then there would no longer be the IQ and the reason to buy them. Further these lenses are designed for MF and are not designed somehow missing AF. And to those that suggest MF on and AF lens ...try it yourself, its crap.

As for not being able to use MF, do you also use one of those electric scooters to walk.

As from the other thread I purchased the D300 for the fact it has a great AF system, yes my eyes are not like they used to be, hope yours are holding my friend, not in a need of a walker yet, I am getting older but can still get on my BMX cruiser and go for a ride on our local BMX track

You know, to MF on these modern DSLR just don't work that great, prefer AF and for me it would be great to have AF on one of these Zeiss lenses, But then again I am not an expert on how you would add AF to it

So how it you might explain will a screw type AF feature degrade the IQ on these lenses

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
oneANT

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jonnyapple said:
Welcome to the forum, exit. I think there isn't a physical reason why the optics would need to change to add AF. Worst case scenario is that the lens would be fatter and the AF could be slow since the throw of MF lenses' focus rings might be longer. You can't argue that moving the elements with a screw mechanism necessarily degrades optical quality since those same elements are moved by your hand during manual focus.

Hello Mr Apple Sir ...thanks for the welcome

Im not knowledgable on lens design but am a Zeiss owner and have been following many Zeiss topics for some time now. It is common knowledge in these circles that the size and number of elements that need to be shifted are beyond the capacity of any micro motor.
I can certainly see this in the focus action, they are smooth and effortless and have a sensation much like the dampening from gears but are nothing like the zero resistance on one of my Nikon AF lenses in MF mode. I could rotate the focus using a pinkie but I could (almost) spin the barrel on my 50/1.4AF by blowing on it like a pinwheel ...mild exaggeration but you get the drift.

Also while on the topic ...if you renamed MF to SF (Selective focus) you might start to twig as to why so many love a good MF(SF) lens. In the heat of the battle there is no selecting AF points, no face detect or any other rubbish ...so think how much faster it is to focus and how much sharper as the image pops into the viewfinder. Think about a crowd and you spot Elvis amongst them ...who do you think is going to have the best pic, I shoot at f2 90% of the time, maybe someone might twig again and go Oh!! ....thats why.

Posted 3 years ago #
oneANT

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NikoDoby said:
Exit Here, throwing insults isn't going to help get your point across so tone it down.

Sorry Niko ...didnt mean to say Sigma (insert grin here).

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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exit here said:
Hello Mr Apple Sir ...thanks for the welcome

Im not knowledgable on lens design but am a Zeiss owner and have been following many Zeiss topics for some time now. It is common knowledge in these circles that the size and number of elements that need to be shifted are beyond the capacity of any micro motor.
I can certainly see this in the focus action, they are smooth and effortless and have a sensation much like the dampening from gears but are nothing like the zero resistance on one of my Nikon AF lenses in MF mode. I could rotate the focus using a pinkie but I could (almost) spin the barrel on my 50/1.4AF by blowing on it like a pinwheel ...mild exaggeration but you get the drift.

Also while on the topic ...if you renamed MF to SF (Selective focus) you might start to twig as to why so many love a good MF(SF) lens. In the heat of the battle there is no selecting AF points, no face detect or any other rubbish ...so think how much faster it is to focus and how much sharper as the image pops into the viewfinder. Think about a crowd and you spot Elvis amongst them ...who do you think is going to have the best pic, I shoot at f2 90% of the time, maybe someone might twig again and go Oh!! ....thats why.

I admit I don't own a Zeiss lens properly newer will, even with my 70-200 2.8VR I do sometimes shot MF to select something or assure that a fast action at a certain point will be in focus, I don't know how strong the pin drive is on my D300, but I would think that a Zeiss lens would have to be geared in a way that would allow the drive to properly focus right

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Thank you Exit for delivering your personal experience in a friendlier tone.

Now welcome to the forum.

Posted 3 years ago #
oneANT

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Hey Pete ...I think that if anyone wants an AF Zeiss they should buy a SONY and get used to holding it out at arms length as they compose the shot using liveview (saw a Sony thread once on what good is a viewfinder anymore). If the recipe for arranging elements needs to be modified to enable te motor to drive them then the recipe changes, bit like cooking a roast in a microwave and not in an oven, only problem is some people like microwave chicken (and tinned spagetti) (and SONY).

The other thing is some think the zf's expensive but the highest ticket item, the 100/2 is US$1540 ...now I can think of 25+ Nikon lenses more expensive than this and even a couple of Sigmas. Lastly, these things are built to last and my sons will be using them long after Im gone (Im still young and not planning to go just yet). You buy one of these and you have got it forever, they even outresolve all current Nikon bodies so a bit of future proofing as well. Think of me after your third Sigma150 karks it, I'll still be on my first zeiss.

Posted 3 years ago #