D4, 70-200mm f/2.8VRII and Volleyball indoors

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D4, 70-200mm f/2.8VRII and Volleyball indoors

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msmoto

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Sometime ago we discussed shooting volleyball games and some recommendations were given. I could not for the life of me find the thread which this was covered in, so.. I was given the job of seeing what kind of photos I could come up with on the spur of the moment at a high school indoor event.

Problems I encountered included the following: 1) the playing area is all the way to the bench, thus photographers must not get near the court. Defeats the low angle shot.... 2) lighting was from a mix of mercury vapor and some other possibly sodium vapor light source.... 3) Long shots rehire long lenses, at least some depth of field is required, and of course the action requires high shutter speeds. 4) Flash was not allowed as it would tend to blind the players temporarily or at least create a possible hinderance to the team I was shooting for as the opposite team would be playing without the flash going off.

So, I used D4, 70-200mm f/2.8VRII and here is one at ISO 9000 1/400 sec, f/4.5 116mm - 0.7ev

Post processing was also a consideration, as the background was so close to the object color and tonal range, I reduced the saturation in the background and slightly darkened it as well. So, this is how I did it... anyone else have ideas they would like to share? I suspect basket ball would have similar problems, different lens choice, however. More photos are on the Flickr page with this one and any comments are welcome. It was a difficult venue at least for me.

Posted 8 months ago #
mk2pop

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Nice one msmoto, I had a look at the set on flickr and you got some really good shots, you managed to get the white balance pretty spot on and the high iso of that d4 is superb
well done

Posted 8 months ago #
shawnino

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that's a great picture. Did you mess around with either the pony tail or the ball? That is, I'm surprised the pony tail is so crisp whilst the ball has such useful blur. The speed differential can't be that big three feet off a bump shot, can it? At any rate, I really like it.

Posted 8 months ago #
HockeyMan

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I think what you did is very good. ISO 9000 seems quite otherworldly. You're probably beyond any of my friends who shoot their kids in framing and PP ability. A coach friend of mine for a girls team shoots a lot of snaps, but his shots are blurry to say the least. The white balance is usually off and since he uses either a 50mm or 85mm f/1.4 wide open, his DOF is paper thin. I'm surprised you had to go that high on ISO to get a 1/400s shutter speed.

The only comment I have is that the viewer gets a real sense of the emotion of the game when you as the photographer put the blocker/hitter/setter's face in focus in the shot. Of course this is personal preference and may not be relevant to what you're asking.

I don't think this person can teach you anything technically, but he/she does capture the players reactions very well in these sample images.

http://www.biggirlinthemiddle.com/shootvb.htm

Posted 8 months ago #
Nikoner

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I have shot indoor volleyball several times, and can empathize with your situation: mixed & poor quality cyclic lights, too many players in a small area, volatile sudden action, restricted shooting locations, no strobes, etc.

Critic hat on:

Personally, with a game in progress, I would rather see a face than a butt. I think your white balance is slightly off, and your pictures would benefit from a faster shutter speed, wider aperture, and lower ISO.

With your combo of equipment I would not hesitate to go for f/2.8, 1/500 or 640, iso 2400 - 3200 (given this settings on D4 I promise you will be able to read "Molten, NCAA, Official Game Set NCAA Championship, Super Touch" on the ball).

Posted 8 months ago #
adamz

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Though I agree with Nikoner about the faster shutter speed I don't mind to see the butt :) but seriously, given the set up You have and knowing Your photos I would expect to see more - don't get me wrong, but the technique on this shot is rather on the lower end of the bar. I wouldn't mind to pull the iso even higher to 12800 and also dial in a -1 as You can easily bring the shadows back to some acceptable level. that's what I do when I need to freeze the moment, like when I'm shooting my nice when she ice skates (even less light than here).
as for PP, well... there's something wrong with the bokeh. looks like You tried to oversharpen it too much, the WB is fine for me...

... sh*t, can't stop thinking about the butt... so nice :)

Posted 8 months ago #
Geoff_K

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I shot a couple games last week at the HS. D90 70-200 VR1 Exposure 0.003 sec (1/400)

Aperture f/2.8
Focal Length 170 mm
ISO Speed 1250
Exposure Bias 0 EV

Posted 8 months ago #
SkintBrit

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adamz said:
... sh*t, can't stop thinking about the butt... so nice :)

LOL, sounds to me like Adam would only use a 400mm f2.8 if he were shooting such an event? :-)

Posted 8 months ago #
msmoto

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OK, you like this one better?

The shooting restrictions were such that my plans for shots from the floor, as on HockeyMan's link, were not possible. Also, the only possible shot was from the side as the end of the court was off limits per the referee.

Because of the lighting and the background confusion, there was post processing to bring the player out. Shooting at f/2.8 and 1/500 sec would not have changed the ISO much. To get the ISO down to about 2500 would mean shooting at f/2.8 and about 1/125. The color balance is always a point of contention as different monitors will show much different color balance.

I think my point of putting this thread up was for the person who wanted some advice a few months ago and to commiserate with him. Shooting these volleyball players is extremely difficult, especially with the constraints placed by the official.

Oh, one more thing... these gals are the junior varsity and not the ones we saw at the Olympics.... very little in play other than what you will see on the Flickr set.

Posted 8 months ago #
HockeyMan

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Yes, I like this shot better, but like I said, your pictures are very good.

The gym must have been very small for the refs to not allow you to get on the ends of the court. That's a shame. But given your restrictions, I thought you produced great work. I know if I had to shoot indoor volleyball it would look like rubbish.

Geoff_K's game looks like it had really good lighting for an indoor volleyball match.

Posted 8 months ago #
adamz

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I really like this one.

and this one

once again, the iso is not a problem, You could easily bump it up to 12800 - I doubt You gonna print it extremely large, and for web/press print the quality gonna be extremely good. also, I wouldn't go below 1/1000.

Posted 8 months ago #
adamz

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@SkintBrit - 600/4 + TC 20 :D

Posted 8 months ago #
msmoto

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Thanks all or the comments... my conclusions...
1) Do not ask the ref where to shoot (The athletic director had said anywhere outside the black lines which would have allowed the end shots from floor level.) LOL

2) Probably, shoot wide open so as to isolate the players with some DOF limits. All these required the PP to drop out the background otherwise the players simply disappeared into it.

3) Use spot focus, Continuous servo, 9 point. These were shot with 3-D, continuous servo.

4) Possibly the 135mm f/2 Nikkor, wide open, ISO 12,800, Aperture priority allowing the shutter to go as high as possible, would have been helpful.

When faced with a new venue, having never shot volleyball before, I learned a heck of a lot. And, lots of fun. Glad some of you guys enjoyed the photos....but these girls are very, very young.

Conclusion: If you ever have an assignment to shoot volleyball, do a shoot first like this, purely for practice, spend the two hours post processing, look everything over and figure out how to go at it to make it work. One really must have the access to the end of the court to get the shots! My grade for this work: C+.

Thanks

Posted 8 months ago #
golf007sd

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msmoto said:
1) Do not ask the ref where to shoot...LOL

2) Probably, shoot wide open so as to isolate the players with some DOF limits.

3) Continuous servo, 9 point.

4) ISO 12,800, Aperture priority allowing the shutter to go as high as possible, would have been helpful.

When faced with a new venue, having never shot volleyball before, I learned a heck of a lot. And, lots of fun. Glad some of you guys enjoyed the photos....but these girls are very, very young.

Conclusion: If you ever have an assignment to shoot volleyball, do a shoot first like this, purely for practice, spend the two hours post processing, look everything over and figure out how to go at it to make it work. One really must have the access to the end of the court to get the shots!

+1 well put msmoto

And +2 for all the "very, very young" butt shots...he he. Sorry could not help myself :P

Posted 8 months ago #