Is Samyang a real competitor to the Nikkor line up?

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Is Samyang a real competitor to the Nikkor line up?

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msmoto

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I have been looking at the Sony - Alpha NEX-7 as it appears to be a fairly nice mirror less cropped sensor camera and with an adaptor can take the Nikkor lenses. Also, the Sony 50mm f/1.8 is not so bad. And the Carl Zeiss 24mm f/1.4 is very good, fitting directly. But, a real interesting comparison of the Samyang 35mm f/1.4 vs the Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8, and the Zeiss T 35mm f/1.4 ZF2 for Nikon and the results are rather overwhelmingly in favor of the Samyang glass. And this is from DxOMark.

My thinking is to put the 35mm on the Sony - Alpha NEX-7 with a Novoflex - Adapter for Nikon Lens to Sony NEX Camera and use it as a "normal" lens.

What experience with the Samyang glass do we have on NRF if any? Comments, please.

Posted 9 months ago #
bjrichus

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I know someone who LOVES the fish eye they do.... Never used them myself but I am tempted to buy one.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gabbb

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It's not really a good comparison. The 17-35 is at it's worst at 35mm and it's not exactly state of the art. The Samyang fisheye and 14mm are great-ish, but the 35mm is definitively not for sharpness junkies. I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I think it performs worse as we get closer to infinity focus distances, price performance ratio is still very good though, just don't expect miracles.

Posted 9 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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First off DXo lens test don't hold any water to me. If they were good - they wouldn't change on different bodies.

When it comes down to it, there isn't really any big secrets about optical lens design for technically accurate results. It's the VR, AF, particular glass composition, etc. that really makes the cost skyrocket. Zeiss and Leica have found some unique mixes of coatings, glass composition, and who knows what else, that creates a "look" or have a "soul" to them. Samyang seems to be generic technically correct but no soul but I could say the same about most Canon, Nikon, Panosonic, Sony (even their "zeiss" glass seems generic), Pentax and Oly glass.

That said, I think Samyang does have something going for them. I have often looked at their 85mm 1.4 for a film camera as it is cheaper than the MF 1.8s out there. Optically they appear to be more than fine and people make some great images with them. For video, I think they have a good choice and really the only one, if you want manual controls. I have seen the 35 1.4, never used it - It is HUGE! The 85mm is big as well. It is the size of the 17-35mm lens and probably heavier. They all seemed to be well built.

Posted 9 months ago #
MikeWhis

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On the other hand, I strongly trust DxOMark. I used to doubt DxOMark's scores, but once you understand what their benchmark means, there will be no doubt that DxOMark is accurate.

Posted 9 months ago #
Godless

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msmoto said:
My thinking is to put the 35mm on the Sony - Alpha NEX-7 with a Novoflex - Adapter for Nikon Lens to Sony NEX Camera and use it as a "normal" lens.

What experience with the Samyang glass do we have on NRF if any? Comments, please.

The Samyang 8mm fisheye and the 35mm are the best Samyang lenses out there. I love the 8mm AE especially. The 35mm is fantastic as well, just not as exciting FOV for me.

The 14mm AE had too much too complicated distortion and I sold mine away.
The 24mm Samyang is a sad failure. Do not touch it with a stick.

The 85mm is good, but I use the 85mm for ADHD targets, so AF is a necessity for me and I did not buy this one.

The Samyang mirror teles I do not like. These could be more useful with image stabilization (= with a Sony, Pentax or Olympus body).

---

If you want the best mirrorless on Earth, get the Olympus OM-D instead. Can use any lens with adapters already available. The sensor is almost as good as the Nikon D7000. And with the battery grip this is better ergonomy-wise than any small bodied DX Nikon.

Posted 9 months ago #
tcole1983

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I have heard good things about them and know some people like them. I would never buy one. I don't shoot video and I really appreciate autofocus so they are of no use to me. The only focal length that appeals to me might be the 85 F1.4, but I would probably spend the little extra money and get the Nikon 85 F1.8G instead.

I have purchased a lens under one of the other names that Samyang falls under (Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar/Polar/Bower/Opteka/Falcon) and I won't touch another one. That is just me though and I am being totally bias and discriminating against every lens the company makes.

Posted 9 months ago #
golf007sd

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Samyang...who? Ok call me a n00b. I have no idea who and what they make. I just know one thing: I know who's glass I'm buying and who's I'm not. Call me crazy or is it "call me maybe..." :P

Posted 9 months ago #
tcole1983

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golf007sd said:
Samyang...who? Ok call me a n00b. I have no idea who and what they make. I just know one thing: I know who's glass I'm buying and who's I'm not. Call me crazy or is it "call me maybe..." :P

;) I am on the same opinion I suppose. They have really favorable reviews, but I just can't imagine it really performs on the same level as the Nikon or even the Zeiss...something has to give at the price point. Maybe because they are just manual focus lenses?

The only reason I can see someone wanting them is the aperture ring and using them for video. I tried to argue on another forum that I thought they stunk and no one cared for my opinion :)

Maybe I am a fool, but I hadn't heard about the brand until I saw them in the Amazon gold box one day. Maybe if you need the F1.4 really bad? I just don't plan to waste any money on a third party lens...especially one that is not all that well known. I will stick with Nikon especially when they have comparable lenses in just about every Samyang lens that I saw.

Posted 9 months ago #
Godless

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tcole1983 said:
;) I am on the same opinion I suppose. They have really favorable reviews, but I just can't imagine it really performs on the same level as the Nikon or even the Zeiss...something has to give at the price point. Maybe because they are just manual focus lenses?

Now that´s being pigheaded about things. Read the reviews and check out the best Samyangs (8 & 35) yourself. You can stop being a fool whenever you want to.. ;D

Posted 9 months ago #
tcole1983

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Godless said:
Now that´s being pigheaded about things. Read the reviews and check out the best Samyangs (8 & 35) yourself. You can stop being a fool whenever you want to.. ;D

tcole1983 said:
I have heard good things about them and know some people like them. I would never buy one. I don't shoot video and I really appreciate autofocus so they are of no use to me. The only focal length that appeals to me might be the 85 F1.4, but I would probably spend the little extra money and get the Nikon 85 F1.8G instead.

I have purchased a lens under one of the other names that Samyang falls under (Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar/Polar/Bower/Opteka/Falcon) and I won't touch another one. That is just me though and I am being totally bias and discriminating against every lens the company makes.

Posted 9 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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golf007sd said:
Samyang...who? Ok call me a n00b. I have no idea who and what they make. I just know one thing: I know who's glass I'm buying and who's I'm not. Call me crazy or is it "call me maybe..." :P

I can't stop laughing!

For under $400 you can pick up the 85mm 1.4 and almost every other lens they make. The 35mm 1.4 seems to hover around $550. As we all know, most shooters fall into two main categories, technical and artistic. For the Technical bunch I don't see this is probably their cup of tea. For the artistic crowd, I think these lenses hit a price point for them warranting a look.

MikeWhis said:
On the other hand, I strongly trust DxOMark. I used to doubt DxOMark's scores, but once you understand what their benchmark means, there will be no doubt that DxOMark is accurate.

I understand them fully. I also designed metrics and analytics for 10 years to measure performance on almost anything & everything. They have assumptions (as do all scoring) but their's I believe lead to poor results seen by bunching all the lenses to an almost equal result. (Be sure not to tick off any lens maker...) On a single body almost all their results bunch lenses within a 5% variance. Not all lenses perform within that 10% window. Their "end results" also include over 50% subjectivity. That is never good unless you are taste-testing pancakes.

If you want to learn what real testing is, Zeiss has a video floating around that shows their lab where they utilize lasers to determine performance. Granted it probably takes millions of dollars to do that, but that is a real test. Kodak had a lens testing lab once as well - who knows where that went though. DXo offers a cheap off the shelf option that almost no one else has since the market is so small and others don't want to get into a pissing match with lens makers.

Posted 9 months ago #
Rx4Photo

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Hope it's OK, but here's a couple of reposts from PAD postings from while ago using my D7000 and the Samyang 14mm f/2.8. When I first got the lens I was a bit disappointed in the images and actually got a return authorization from the retailer. Next day I decided to force myself to learn how to use it and began taking better photos with it. Glad I did that because I now have a high appreciation for those of you who learned your skill with manual focus lenses.

I recently sold it get the Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 !!! Totally excited.

The Samyang was pretty good for me during the time that I had it but at the risk of sounding like a Nikon snob, I just wanted the Nikon lens. I know I'll have it for years so why not?! Expense IS definitely an issue and I have a lot of explaining to do with my better half. I can say that the Samyang brand is good for the seriously budget conscious shooter. Since my experience with this lens I now often find myself Manually Focusing my AF lenses anyway.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gabbb

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Rx4Photo said:
Hope it's OK, but here's a couple of reposts from PAD postings from while ago using my D7000 and the Samyang 14mm f/2.8. When I first got the lens I was a bit disappointed in the images and actually got a return authorization from the retailer. Next day I decided to force myself to learn how to use it and began taking better photos with it. Glad I did that because I now have a high appreciation for those of you who learned your skill with manual focus lenses.

I recently sold it get the Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 !!! Totally excited.

The Samyang was pretty good for me during the time that I had it but at the risk of sounding like a Nikon snob, I just wanted the Nikon lens. I know I'll have it for years so why not?! Expense IS definitely an issue and I have a lot of explaining to do with my better half. I can say that the Samyang brand is good for the seriously budget conscious shooter. Since my experience with this lens I now often find myself Manually Focusing my AF lenses anyway.

I did it in a similar way, except I went for a 16-35vr. I personally felt really restrained with a 14mm prime. (I'm fine with prime lenses in general, but 14mm is just not that usable for me.)

As for the distortion, there is a pretty good auto correction filter for Lightroom, you can download it with the Adobe lens profile downloader, just search for 14mm and select the "Rokinon 14mm" and it will auto-correct from that point on, it's indistinguishable from the PTlens correction.

My copy was really sharp, the resolution was a touch better than the 16-35, just with less contrast.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gabbb

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TaoTeJared said:
that creates a "look" or have a "soul" to them. Samyang seems to be generic technically correct but no soul

I like how the images made with the 85mm 1.4 look. I'm not sure how I would define "soul" in this case, but I much prefer this look over nikkor lenses, the only problem is that I wouldn't wanna manually focus a 85 1.4 on a dx viewfinder.

Posted 9 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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Gabbb said:
I like how the images made with the 85mm 1.4 look. I'm not sure how I would define "soul" in this case, but I much prefer this look over nikkor lenses, the only problem is that I wouldn't wanna manually focus a 85 1.4 on a dx viewfinder.

I would use on on a film FE2 if I got one. There are the Katz eyes replacement windows that give the old style look if one is real serious about MF lenses. 1.4 is so slim of a focus I keep passing on one and looking for a good 1.8 or f2 nikkor on ebay. Kicker is the prices are more than I want to spend and are almost the same as these. I have an ebay search set up if one pops up under $250 - they do every once in a while.

They do have a different look - seem to be really sharp as well.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gabbb

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TaoTeJared said:
I would use on on a film FE2 if I got one. There are the Katz eyes replacement windows that give the old style look if one is real serious about MF lenses. 1.4 is so slim of a focus I keep passing on one and looking for a good 1.8 or f2 nikkor on ebay. Kicker is the prices are more than I want to spend and are almost the same as these. I have an ebay search set up if one pops up under $250 - they do every once in a while.

They do have a different look - seem to be really sharp as well.

A while ago I thought a lot about installing a split screen on the DSRL, I liked using my father's Praktica that way, but to be honest on a DX viewfinder they feel too distractedly big, nailing focus is nice, but it really confuses my otherwise already not so great composing abilities :D

Posted 9 months ago #
bjrichus

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golf007sd said:
Samyang...who? Ok call me a n00b. I have no idea who and what they make. I just know one thing: I know who's glass I'm buying and who's I'm not. Call me crazy or is it "call me maybe..." :P

Well now, Mister Maybe,

They have been around since the early 1970's and I think they have also been OEMs for a number of second tier makers of years gone by. Vivitar, Rokinon, and I think Bell & Howell (B&H) also re-badged them... Ultra low price lenses with not bad performance, if you don't mind manual controls. Certainly not Nikon, but at the prices involved here, you can hardly go wrong.

Ebay has (from all the main vendors), lots of examples of new lenses from them at prices that won't make a credit card or PayPal account cry at statement time :-)

Someone once told me that they also made glass for some top tier brands, but I have never been able to work out if they have their own glass foundries (which would lend some credence to that story) or if they just buy from others... Maybe someone who KNOWS will tell?

Posted 9 months ago #
tcole1983

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Just to be a total Nikon snob and I know money is usually always a factor...especially with Nikon F1.4 lenses but...

If you have the Nikon in one hand and the Samyang in the other and the store takes their Nikon lens back and you walk out with the Samyang wouldn't you be sad? At the end of the day if you can afford the Nikon then you really wouldn't think about the Samyang would you?

(I blame this forum for my need of expensive lenses and all of them to be Nikon :)

Posted 9 months ago #
Gabbb

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tcole1983 said:
Just to be a total Nikon snob and I know money is usually always a factor...especially with Nikon F1.4 lenses but...

If you have the Nikon in one hand and the Samyang in the other and the store takes their Nikon lens back and you walk out with the Samyang wouldn't you be sad? At the end of the day if you can afford the Nikon then you really wouldn't think about the Samyang would you?

(I blame this forum for my need of expensive lenses and all of them to be Nikon :)

I don't see how anyone would choose the samyang 1.4 over a nikon 1.8, but their wide angles have decent image quality and they are well built, I would totally pick the samyang 14mm over the nikon 14mm prime lens, much sharper, better overall.

Posted 9 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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tcole1983 said:

If you have the Nikon in one hand and the Samyang in the other (*NOTE BELOW FOR INSERT*)and the store takes their Nikon lens back and you walk out with the Samyang wouldn't you be sad? At the end of the day if you can afford the Nikon then you really wouldn't think about the Samyang would you?

*NOTE - You forgot to insert "And you only have $350 in your pocket" ;)

It is all about money with these lenses. If you don't have the $1,000 for a AFD or Sigma or even the $1,600 for the AFS, or even the $700 for the 1.8, there is really no other choice. Even the f1.8 AFD used 85s go for $350 many times. The newer f 1.8 AFDs really are not that great to MF with either - at least I don't like it.

Now if you were looking for MF only, I would say it would be a hard decision between an old Nikkor F1.8 or F2 and one of these.

Posted 9 months ago #
msmoto

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This has been very informative thread. And as I ponder the difference between the camera body on which I will be using the 35mm lens, I am now swinging back toward the Fuji X Pro-1. And the 35mm f/1.4 from Fuji would be the logical choice here as I cannot find a Nikon F mount adaptor which is carried by B & H to mount the F lenses on the X Pro-1 as of yet.

So, now, if there are comments on the Fuji 35mm f/1.4... it sounds like a pretty nice lens in looking at some of the early testing and comparing it to the results from the D4, D800 tests with the 85mm f/1.8. Not fair, but fair is a place where one eats cotton candy and sees elephants.

To move along with my rather obtuse decision making, influenced by the Omaha Mafia, LOL, the Fuji body is made from metal, the Sony NEX is metal/composite. And the hi ISO performance as I can see is definitely better on the Fuji sensor of 16Mp vs. the Sony sensor of 24Mp.

More comments?

Posted 9 months ago #
Godless

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msmoto said:
And the 35mm f/1.4 from Fuji would be the logical choice here as I cannot find a Nikon F mount adaptor

So, now, if there are comments on the Fuji 35mm f/1.4...

The Nikon F- Fuji X-Pro adapter is already available on eBay. Get it there.

Check the photozone.de reviews of the Fuji X Pro lenses (don´t worry, it´s all in english)

Posted 9 months ago #
Eric

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@msmoto - I was thinking you would probably be getting a D800 as your next body. I'm interested in hearing what you are looking for. What about the Fuji X100? ... it comes with a fixed 35mm f/2. I ask because it seems to me that if you are going lightweight, you are not going to want to be hauling around lenses.

As something of an aside, I bought the p7000 as a lightweight camera to toss in the glove box, (at the time I was shooting a D3S) and I found that the hi-ISO capability (and associated creative latitude) I had become accustomed to left me very frustrated with the lesser camera. Personally I want a camera with lots of controls so I don't need to chase through menus and lots of viewfinder feedback (thus allowing me to adjust the viewfinder feedback to my aging eyes); and I don't want to deal with LCDs in bright light.

Posted 9 months ago #
Meleagris

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I have one of the 85mm f/1.4 (with the electronic chip) I purchased about a year ago. It is an exceptionally sharp lens and seems well constructed (outside of the terrible lens cap and hood).It has a very nice Bokkeh. That said....I almost NEVER include it in my bag any more. Admittedly, an 85mm isn't a lens I use much (which is why I considered the cheaper lens). I don't use this lens because it is nearly impossible for me to focus accurately at f/1.4. The focus assist helps....some but DOF is just so razor thin it leads to lots of missed shots. I started with manual focus back in the 1980s...and had no problem then...but now...I just cant do it with this lens.

Posted 9 months ago #