Well the next camera in the series is going to have a new series number, so they could do a new body design. A body redesign might also help with video in that there is currently no separate video button like on the canon 7D and T2i. Plus the LCD screen has always gotten bigger with each new camera in this series. The D70 LCD screen was 1.8", the D70S went to 2", the D80 went to 2.5", and the D90 went up to 3". So why not a 3.2" screen? Or better yet, though extremely unlikely, a bigger touch screen with the buttons on the screen? Nikon isn't Sony though :^(
[closed]
Waiting for D90 Refresh
(170 posts) (40 voices)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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I guess a 3.2 inch screen is possible. A touch screen sounds nice, but I'm not sure it would be practical in non-entry level models. If they used a touch screen you can bet it would drop hard buttons. That is more of a loss than a gain, but that is just IMO. BTW the T2i doesn't have a movie button, rather it doubles up with the Liveview button on the back. You set the mode dial to movie mode and then the Liveview button becomes a movie button. If anything it is easier to start recording on the D90 than the T2i.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I bought a D70 in early 2005, and seconds after my return period expired, the D70s was announced. Damn, you, Nikon! (And, boy, that D70 screen was small!) Smiley's right about the D90 body + lens kit. It seemed like forever until resellers had an available, body-only D90 in stock. I bought one of the first D90s B+H had available as a body-only "kit."
Odd thing is, so many new to photography seem to keep buying these "kit" lenses, going in, thinking they're some kind of "deal" or something. Sure, you get focal length coverage from wide to tele, often without a gap, but are you guys aware that everything you shoot with these lenses will have TONS of depth-of-field, and that you'll be able to shoot virtually nothing at night or in available (artificial) light?
Most of the time, we're trying to GET RID of depth-of-field, by isolating our subjects with razor-thin depths of focus, using large, maximum-aperture lenses. We do this to dissolve distracting background elements into creamy, abstracted, washes of color and form. Sure, not every photo is shot that way, but with those kit lenses, you can't shoot that way at all.
Back in the old days, people buying their first 35mm SLR were sold a 50mm f/1.4 or 50mm f/1.8. That, was the "kit" lens. People had to "learn" how to make a normal lens make pictures that were interesting. My first 35mm SLR "came with" a 50mm f/1.4 lens. It taught me how to "see." Next, was a 28mm wide-angle. It was only years later that I started to discover the uses of the more exotic focal lengths.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Darn it.. !
I have been basically keeping an eye on all the D90 chat with a bit of amusement and having a chuckle at the expense of all these Noobs with NAS.. when all of a sudden I have an opportunity to go to shanghai for a week at the end of July, beginning of august.. and suddenly I am having a serious attack of D90 NAS!!! Oh crap !!
... Groan ...
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... Sigh ...Posted 2 years ago # -
@studio460, I don't understand what's so odd that people new to photography rush in and purchase their camera bodies with kit lenses. Most people will not spend weeks or months leaning the basics to even grasp what it is they are holding in their hand.
Actually I think that is good that people new to photography get cameras with kit lenses covering everything from 18 to 200mm. Why? I do agree that kit lenses are slow and have moderate, if not poor image quality but they are also cheap. A person just getting into photography will most probably not really know what their specialisation will be later on. Later on when one already knows what they will be shooting most, they will also be able to get the appropriate lenses and most probably also save money from the faster lenses that they could have purchased but will not be using in the years to come.
Also it is cheaper to learn the ropes of usage and care with cheaper lenses than with $2000 ones.Posted 2 years ago # -
The thing about noobs is that they don't know what they don't know. If they knew that a kit lense with a max f/stop of 5.6 would not produce the results they wanted, and that a multi-thousand dollar f/2.8 was requiured than most wouldn't even consider a DSLR in the first place.
That being said there have been many award winning and extremely impressive shots taken with cheap-o kit lenses. Minute DOF and low light action shots are not the be-all-end-all of creative photography.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think people dis kit lenses far too much. First of all, they are faster and sharper than what most people are used to from having point and shoot or super zoom cameras, so they are already getting better images. Many camera buyers will never own more than one lens, with that one lens generally being the kit lens(es) that came with the camera they buy. For most people the image quality from them is more than enough. For an advanced amateur or a pro they may seem like cheap junk, but for a teenager or someone just wanting photos of their kids running around outside, they are generally good enough 80% of the time.
Posted 2 years ago # -
OK guys I think we're getting off topic here. Let's keep the discussion on the D90 refresh. I'll start another thread for the kit lens versus body only debate.
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2148PB PM said:
...the T2i doesn't have a movie button, rather it doubles up with the Liveview button on the back.Yes I'm aware of how it works. What I meant was that canon uses a single button that is dedicated for video. On the D90 you have to press the "LV" button and then select the separate "OK" button to start and stop recording. Since video is just an extension of LiveView then it seems like it was just a "temporary" fix until they could figure out a better placement.
I think a single button near the top of the camera is better ergonomically then having to push two buttons that are on the back of the camera some space apart. One of the rare examples of better button placement from canon then from Nikon.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I am waiting for the refresh. I have walked in several times, picked up the D90 and set it back down. I sell real estate for a living and want the better video upgrades that will be in the newer camera. I also want it for pleasure. I was trying to shoot some pictures of birds on our birdfeeders today and could not freeze motion with my 55-200 without shooting at ISO 1600 or even 3200. On a D60, this simply produces too much noise. While I am building lenses that will help alleviate some of this problem, I can't by the big Nikon 2.8 right now. Much of that would be overcome by being able to shoot at higher ISO's. ISO 800 on a D60 can be too noisy sometimes and that makes it difficult to shoot...
Posted 2 years ago # -
RyanWard, maybe give Neat Image a try to remove noise in your high ISO photographs.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thank you anjz. I will take a look at it later tonight.It will still be a temporary fix as I am looking for a camera with more controls than a D60 and I may get a D90 - but not until a new model is released...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ryan - are you going to pre-order as soon as the replacement is announced? It's a good idea if you don't want to wait a long time. If you don't get in on the initial production you may wind up with a long delay....
For your D60 - I use Noise Ninja for my D3K and D90 (and all my cameras before it). Like lenses, good noise reduction software will be useful long after the body is replaced. I think it does a better job than the in-camera noise reduction - well it certainly has more control, in any case.
Posted 2 years ago # -
From all reports the noise reduction in Lightroom 3 is as good as Noise Ninja. But back to the D90 replacement...In my experience the D90's performance at 1600 pretty good and 3200 is still better than acceptable. That being said I'd still be willing to pay a couple of hundred more than the current D90's MSRP for an extra stop. But I don't think that will happen. I'm betting that Nikon has been putting most of their effort into video and megapixels.
Posted 2 years ago # -
PB PM said:
I don't think you'll see a bigger LCD, there really isn't any room on the body, unless they redesign it entirely. What's more likely is that Nikon will follow Canon's lead with the T2i and switch to a 3:2 ratio 3" LCD screen with higher resolution.I agree- I'd prefer the same size screen with a higher resolution honestly. Any larger and the body will just be ungainly. The bigger the screen, the bigger the body, I'm not sure you want a body larger than a D300 sized camera and this is a D90 level camera we're talking about.
I do agree with the 3:2 ratio screen, although I haven't found any issue with fitting images on the D40...?
studio460 said:
I bought a D70 in early 2005, and seconds after my return period expired, the D70s was announced. Damn, you, Nikon! (And, boy, that D70 screen was small!) Smiley's right about the D90 body + lens kit. It seemed like forever until resellers had an available, body-only D90 in stock. I bought one of the first D90s B+H had available as a body-only "kit."Odd thing is, so many new to photography seem to keep buying these "kit" lenses, going in, thinking they're some kind of "deal" or something. Sure, you get focal length coverage from wide to tele, often without a gap, but are you guys aware that everything you shoot with these lenses will have TONS of depth-of-field, and that you'll be able to shoot virtually nothing at night or in available (artificial) light?
Most of the time, we're trying to GET RID of depth-of-field, by isolating our subjects with razor-thin depths of focus, using large, maximum-aperture lenses. We do this to dissolve distracting background elements into creamy, abstracted, washes of color and form. Sure, not every photo is shot that way, but with those kit lenses, you can't shoot that way at all.
Back in the old days, people buying their first 35mm SLR were sold a 50mm f/1.4 or 50mm f/1.8. That, was the "kit" lens. People had to "learn" how to make a normal lens make pictures that were interesting. My first 35mm SLR "came with" a 50mm f/1.4 lens. It taught me how to "see." Next, was a 28mm wide-angle. It was only years later that I started to discover the uses of the more exotic focal lengths.
It is true that the kit lenses are relatively cheap, but it really depends on what you want to use it for. Yes, it's terrible for subject isolation, but I guess in some cases that's not what you want. It's an optically nice lens in a small package. I'm sure the depth of field helps in landscape photography.
Posted 2 years ago # -
NikoDoby said:
OK guys I think we're getting off topic here. Let's keep the discussion on the D90 refresh. I'll start another thread for the kit lens versus body only debate.
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2148Yes I'm aware of how it works. What I meant was that canon uses a single button that is dedicated for video. On the D90 you have to press the "LV" button and then select the separate "OK" button to start and stop recording. Since video is just an extension of LiveView then it seems like it was just a "temporary" fix until they could figure out a better placement.
I think a single button near the top of the camera is better ergonomically then having to push two buttons that are on the back of the camera some space apart. One of the rare examples of better button placement from canon then from Nikon.
Sure, but the T2i is worse, you have to set the top mode dial to movie mode, the D90 is far more intuitive IMO. In any case, two motions are required on both cameras.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It would be dumb to not have to move the dial first. Who would want a record button that instantly starts recording especially if you accidentally push it? There are some point & shoots that are like that and I hate it. I don't mind putting the dial to "video" before pushing the record button. That's pretty much how all other cameras do it.
I think for the D90 replacement moving the dial and then pushing record is reasonable. Or perhaps they could move the rec button next to the AE/AF button and then use the shutter button to start and stop recording.
NSXType-R said:
I agree- I'd prefer the same size screen with a higher resolution honestly. Any larger and the body will just be ungainly. The bigger the screen, the bigger the body,So how do you explain the Sony NEX camera? Or how about the 3.5" screen on the iphone? Those bodies don't seem big and ungainly to me
Posted 2 years ago # -
You have to use the mode dial to switch the camera into every other mode, so not using it for video is just odd to me. If you hand a DSLR to anyone not familiar with the model (pro or amateur) and told them to put it into video mode, I'd bet that 100% of them would look at the top mode dial first.
I'm a fan of hard buttons and the directional pad on the Nikon bodies. If a touchscreen is added I'd hope that the directional stays. It lets me control the camera very quickly with one hand.
Posted 2 years ago # -
NikoDoby said:
It would be dumb to not have to move the dial first. Who would want a record button that instantly starts recording especially if you accidentally push it? There are some point & shoots that are like that and I hate it. I don't mind putting the dial to "video" before pushing the record button. That's pretty much how all other cameras do it.I think for the D90 replacement moving the dial and then pushing record is reasonable. Or perhaps they could move the rec button next to the AE/AF button and then use the shutter button to start and stop recording.
So how do you explain the Sony NEX camera? Or how about the 3.5" screen on the iphone? Those bodies don't seem big and ungainly to me
I haven't really looked at the NEX, but it certainly looks ungainly to me with some of the larger lenses.
But don't higher Nikon DSLRs use a 3 inch screen too? It might be in the widescreen format, but that's still only 3 inches.
And the IPhone's different, it's a flat phone. :D
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sorry about my "kit lens rant." I just hate to see people just reflexively buy the "lens that comes with the camera" before they even know what different lenses may have to offer.
Wait . . . allow me one rebuttal statement to respond to the replies to that post. A 50mm f/1.8 is like a hundred bucks, not $2,000. Yes, not all images are shot with shallow DOF. But these people will NEVER be able to shoot at night, NEVER be able to shoot in available (low) light, will NEVER be able to isolate their subjects, and will always have EVERYTHING in focus. That's no way to "learn," in my opinion. Now, before I get banned from this site, I will say that modern kit lenses are pretty darned good. I didn't say they weren't. I just said that they severely limit your creative options.
Back on-topic . . .
For my purposes, the D90's video feature is virtually useless without manual ISO and shutter speed control. I fully expected Nikon to issue a firmware release to resolve this, but it's clear now, that Nikon either can't or won't issue a firmware release to address the problem for the current iteration of the D90. I would hope that a D90 "refresh" would address this issue, even if the camera remains only 720p-capable.
But Nikon seems so far behind Canon in its video capability (with Panasonic getting ready to overtake both Nikon and Canon in the D-SLR derived video-making arena, with its planned 4/3 AF100, interchangeable-lens, 24p HD video camera, due out later this year), I would more likely expect Nikon to restructure its entire line, possibly continuing to differentiate between video and non-video models, but at least gaining parity with Canon in their "video" models.
I would think that they must be at least considering an across-the-board refresh to compete with Canon's 1080p video capability, and Panasonic's full manual control capability. But I have no idea where Nikon's thinking is on this. The D90 was first to do 24p HD video. Now, Nikon remains in last place to enable manual-control, 1080p video in their D-SLRs. Go figure.
I was actually dearly optimistic that it was Nikon, that was the "secret company," rumored a while back, to be working with a large, Japanese electronics manufacturer to bring out an F-mount compatible, possibly, Nikon-branded, 1080p movie-making machine, in a decidedly video camera-ish form factor. That would be, for us Nikon lens-owning flimmakers, our dream camera.
That rumor may still be valid . . . who knows?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Even e professional camera takes more then two motion to operate the video. So two motion is not that bad. Nikon already did it with P100 buy placing a dedicated record button with a switch from HD to SD. Maybe I am wrong because I only have seen the P100 on the net so it could take more then few clicks in order to operate the camera.
But Nikon has got to many cameras out there to get inspired on how to get the camera set to video mode for movie recording.
Posted 2 years ago # -
My point wasn't that it took two motions, rather that I don't think how you activate the movie mode on the T2i is any better than the D90. What I like about the D90's way of activating the movie mode is that I can be in live view shooting away, and then, oh there is something I want to record, boom I hit the okay button and away I go. T2i, I'm shooting in live view, oh something I want to record. So I switch the dial to movie setting, it exits liveview while I switch modes on the dial, then starts it again when I get to the movie setting. Moment I wanted to record has passed. Thanks Canon!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would like Nikon to either make the video facility as good as a dedicated video camera or take it off altogether and charge less for the body or charge the same and give more direct access buttons.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well, PBPM you are right on saying that! But on the other hand Canon wins on other things like for example the video options that you get.
I to think that the way Nikon has combine the LV with OK button for video is about ideal for those situation but I think it will be much better if Nikon did what Canon has done with 7d. You have a dedicated button which has a record on the middle and it is switchable from camera to video mode.
If you are in the video mode to record you press the record button but taking pictures you pres the front shutter button. The only problem with that is the video is paused for a second at the moment when you took the pic.
To my opinion Nikon has a lot to improve only if they listen to the people that are using these cameras for video recording. The good thing is that Nikon doesn't have to compromise the picture side of the camera at all. All they have to do is find a way to incorporate those ideas to new cameras, if possible find a way to fix some of the problems that they had on D90 and D300s which I am sure that even you PB will benefit when you are able to set the ISO and SS manually.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I agree, the 7D has the best way of using liveview and movie mode, no doubt. The manual controls that Canon offers, even in the T2i are far superior to Nikon's offerings. It's kind of sad that Canon has 1080p video with manual controls and three frame rate settings on an entry level model, while Nikon's top end camera only has 720p, and is the only camera with manual control!
Posted 2 years ago # -
PB PM:
Yes, it's getting embarrassing. Nikon has to address this across the board to claim some parity with Canon. Or, like Spraynpray said, either fix it, or get rid of it. Everywhere I go with my D90, I get asked, "Oh, is that the one that does video?" And then I have to explain . . . yeah, but it's useless without any manual control--get a Canon instead. I'm getting sick of explaining what the D90 doesn't do, vis-a-vis, the 5D and 7D.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
