where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
If I understood well how CaptureNX2 is working, it changes NEF settings inside the file, not the raw data itself. So everything can be changed/reverted later.
How does other software like Lightroom4, Aperture3, CaptureOne6 perform? The same way ?
Does it means a NEF modified by CNX2 (changing Picture Control for example), can be seen and changed again by another software? And then changes can be seen in CNX2 ?
Or does they use different approach? (incompatible ways)
a RAW file is not an image. it is a bunch of information which can readily be turned into an image.
RAW files can always be reverted to "as shot".
Shoot RAW and live
Hate RAW and die
A wa he woooy he woooy
I don't know what Capture NX does but the other programs (Lightroom, Aperture etc) do not change the image data inside the file. They keep a catalog with the changes that you made, and then apply those at display or export time. So, the image inside the raw file is always the same as it originally was. In the case of Lightroom, and I assume others, you can export a sidecar file which contains all the changes you made to store alongside the original file if you don't want to keep it in the catalog, or want to send it to someone else as a raw file.
If you "edit" a raw file in most of the packages, the changes will not show up in other packages because the original file is not touched. So they are all "compatible" in the sense that they do not touch the file and ruin it for other programs, but if you want to work on the image in one program and then another you will have to export to another format and work on the exported file (TIFF etc).
...and exporting the file (whatever format - jpg, tiff, etc) incorporates - permanently - those changes into it. So, if it goes on from program to program being changed, the original raw file remains untouched and can be re-edited from the beginning (import from camera) or the end (exported to other editors) as you wish.
Your question "Does a .NEF file changed by another program etc" is not valid because you export it in a different format from Lightroom, not a NEF.
I believe that the NEF format is designed to always keep the original RAW data intact. Any modifications done to a NEF file, if saved as as NEF, reside as a series of processing instructions for the original pixel data. The RAW file format actually has a the Bayer pattern of Red, Green and Blue pixels. The RAW processor first converts this to a set of colored pixels. If there are is other information in the NEF file such as WB, contrast changes, whatever, these reside in the NEF file as processing instructions to apply to the RGB pixel data extracted from the RAW data. As spraynpray says, whenever you save the image as other than an NEF, you might lose the ability to revert back to the original. This is certainly the case with jpegs, TIFFs can incorporate some processing data as can photoshop files. In order.
rdunnell said:
... If you "edit" a raw file in most of the packages, the changes will not show up in other packages because the original file is not touched. So they are all "compatible" in the sense that they do not touch the file and ruin it for other programs, but if you want to work on the image in one program and then another you will have to export to another format and work on the exported file (TIFF etc).
Going a bit off-topic here, but here's a little tip for lightroom users: This is an option under the Catalog settings (metadata tabs) - "Automatically write changes into XMP".
What this option does is that any time you modify a RAW picture in lightroom instead of just saving the changes to the catalog database it will actually create a separate *.xmp file. That file can then be used with Photoshop (and other compatible software, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform for a list).
I love that setting, because it allows me to forget about catalogs. I don't really "catalog" my pics, i just use lightroom to sort out the keepers and tweak/post process them a bit, the normal pics then get converted to med-resolution jpg's and only the keepers are kept as RAW (saves a lot of harddisk space). So once i am done processing a shoot i remove the pics from the catalog. The thing i like about that is that i have no need to backup/manage the catalog database (just need to backup the picture files, a simple file-copy is all that is needed).
And if i need to go edit a keeper again then i can just quickly drag the file into a catalog again and they will show exactly as i left them the last time (with all changes read from the xmp file).
Yes, I watch a explanation video from Adobe on Lightroom, its catalog and xmp.
So basically, all software are doing uncompatibles changes, except if you stick with Adobe (lighroom+bridge+photoshop and xmp)...
And basically, CNX2 is the slowest, because it rewrites the NEF for every change! Even if it doesn't touch raw data inside. What a pity...
Capture NX2 maintains the original file and all subsequent edit steps. At any time you can go back to the original NEF if it is only processes in Capture NX2 or Nikon View NX2.
When you make edits in Capture, there is a user setting that determines when edit steps are applied. Normally they are applied with each step so you can see what you are doing.
Within the original NEF file is a basic JPEG that is used to render the image shown in the LCD and display thumbnails. If you use Capture, that basic JPEG is replaced with a larger JPEG - thus the reason why the file size changes after an edit. Some programs - like Photo Mechanic - can extract a copy of this JPEG making for very quick JPEG creation.
Capture does not use sidecars or separate files or instructions that need to be attached to the file - there is a single file. If you have versions of edits in Capture, Capture can carry all of those edit steps as separate versions in the single edit file.
All of these programs have proprietary editing software, so it makes sense that other programs can't pick up those edits and interpret them. The Adobe programs do not pick up the Nikon supplied interpretation of the RAW data but rather apply their own version. Sunny daylight has different values in Photoshop and Capture. That can be an advantage for a particular product, or a disadvantage with compatibility.
This sure is a tricky subject to get ones head around!
So when I select 'Raw' on my D7000, then select 'Set Picture Control-Neutral-Sharpening' and increase the sharpening to say '9' then increase ( or decrease ) the saturation, brightness and contrast, I end up with quit a different photo when viewed next to a photo taken without these adjustments.
# Am I seeing a Raw photo or what? Which photo is Raw?
My understanding of a Raw photo is that it is just that, a -Raw- photo, no adjustments.
After making adjustments in Picture Control in the camera then Adjustments in VeiwNX and Develop and Adjust in NX2,
# Is the photo always Raw through all these processes?
Cheers.
earthsea said:
# Am I seeing a Raw photo or what? Which photo is Raw?
You cannot "see" a photo as a Raw file, is just that, a file
It has to converted into a image, by software such a Lightroom or NX2
Lightroom can be set, to adjusted its output, to match the adjustment you originally set in your camera , but the RAW or NEF file is not change. The big advantage with RAW is, if you do not like your original "adjustments", you can change them in post production . If you shoot jpegs, you cannot go back to the origianl RAW data
I think NX2 works the same way
I
>>So when I select 'Raw' on my D7000, then select 'Set Picture Control-Neutral-Sharpening' and increase the sharpening to say '9' then increase ( or decrease ) the saturation, brightness and contrast, I end up with quit a different photo when viewed next to a photo taken without these adjustments.
# Am I seeing a Raw photo or what? Which photo is Raw? <<
Depends on where you are viewing...
- On the LCD of thye camera, you are looking at a "small Jpeg" witch is included in your RAW file.
- When looking in CaptureNX you are looking at a representation of the RAW file with all setting applied. Thos settings can be changed because the original full rRAW file is still there, but there is a section in the file that contains the settings which are applied by Capture NX2. Here you find the main advantage of Capture NX2 for Nikon camera's : the settings get carried over , and get shown in Capture NX2..
- When importing in an other RAW development program ( Adobe Photoshop, DXO, Lightroom etc.) you will get a presentation of the basic RAW file with no settings applied, then you can change / apply settings witch will be saved with the RAW file, in a separate library. Thos settings you can change again because the RAW itself is not changed.
- When converting to DNG by Adobe DNG converter, all initial settings arte lost, and you need to make nesw settings through an Adobe program witch understands DNG. Your RAW file changes ( slightly) by the conversion process.
- All raw can get "Developed" towards a TIFF or JPEG ( or some other exotic formats). WHen those files are "adjusted"then they are realy changed. This process is needed to be able to print, or publish ( On the internet..) your pictures. every change from here on to the JPEGS or TIFF files causes some loss of IQ mostly.. But the RAW are not changed..
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