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Ren Crockwell and the D800

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Eric

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@TaoTeJared - Yes, Thom has made the same point. I know its off topic, but in general Nikon seems to do a good job of listening to photographers. It seems like the software change required to provide a true settings save/recall function should be fairly minor. This suggestion/request has been going around for years; is there something I'm missing?

@donaldejose - You may be right, however over the years that I have turned to Ken for advice, it seems that as his following has increased, his message has changed. I feel that he has moved from providing information that his readers can use to make informed decisions to telling them what to think. Perhaps this is an effect of notoriety and an associated feeling of self importance, but more and more I see commentaries like the ones on this blog that call into question his relevance. As a past contributor to his site, it saddens me to see what may the beginnings of self destruction.

Posted 10 months ago #
shawnino

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@ Eric: The beginnings of self destruction? Doubt it. Between his shameless begging and his affiliate deals, if he self-destructs it won't be because of his website. It would be from something else.

I would have piled on here --I don't think he's doing his readers a service-- but I'm afraid I'd come off looking jealous. I'm an excellent writer, but a very average tog. Rockwell is doing what I only wish I could do: cash in huge by writing about photography. So sure, I think his site is poison... but I wish it was me doing it.

Posted 10 months ago #
Funduro

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LOL NO! R O F L !!
Ken Rockwell is the Chuck Norris of photography
Ken Rockwell's camera has similar settings to ours, except his are: P[erfect] Av[Awesome Priority Tv[Totally Awesome Priority] M[ajestic]
Ken Rockwell doesn't color correct. He adjusts your world to match his.
Ken Rockwell doesn't adjust his DOF, he changes space-time.
Ken Rockwell doesn't wait for the light when he shoots a landscape - the light waits for him.
Ken Rockwell ordered an L-lens from Nikon, and got one.
Ken Rockwell is the only person to have photographed Jesus; unfortunately he ran out of film and had to use a piece of cloth instead.
Only Ken Rockwell can take pictures of Ken Rockwell; everyone else would just get their film overexposed by the light of his genius
Ken Rockwell once designed a zoom lens. You know it as the Hubble SpaceTelescope.
On Ken Rockwell's desktop, the Trash Icon is really a link to National Geographic Magazine
Ken Rockwell spells point-and-shoot "h-a-s-s-e-l-b-l-a-d"
For every 10 shots that Ken Rockwell takes, 11 are keepers.
Ken Rockwell's digital files consist of 0's, 1's AND 2's.
Ken Rockwell's shots are so perfect, Adobe redesigned photoshop for him: all it consists of is a close button.
The term tripod was coined after his silhouette
Ken Rockwell never produces awful work, only work too advanced for the viewer
Ken Rockwell never starts, he continues

Oh dear i'm tearing up. Excuse me I need to get a Kleenex to clean the teats off the keyboard.

I knew that guy was grifter when I read about his wife's 500HP Turbo Porsche Cayenne on his website. Please support my growing family, LOL yea riiight.

Posted 10 months ago #
mark_wilkins

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I find Ken Rockwell's comments interesting for some purposes, but I also found this incredibly amusing:

http://froknowsphoto.com/raw-vs-jpeg-vs-ken-rockwell-interview/

Posted 10 months ago #
bjrichus

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jmc6155 said:
then why doesn't he just use a point and shoot for all the changing circumstances swirling around him when he takes a photograph?

He does ... its called a Leica M9.

;-)

Posted 10 months ago #
TriShooter

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sevencrossing said:
Had my 800 for 2 months now

.....
You don't use the lcd to check correct colour balance in any case , that is done later with LR4 and a calibrated monitor

......
Any one think of jumping ship talk to a friend who has a C***** about reliability

I have been using Nikon's for over 40 years don't know what a Nikon repair station looks like

/nods
Calibration is ongoing with any LCD screen I've used here.

/LOL
I've used Nikons for over 40 years as well, but have been to Nikon's factory repair at 1300 Walt Whitman Road in Melville, New York once. I wanted to see their repair center before I die, so I hand carried a couple of cameras in for cleaning. ;D Nice facility btw!

Posted 10 months ago #
TriShooter

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Reading sites like Ken Rockwell's is fun for me. I read his, and many other sites, the same way I read an editorial page in a newspaper, or a blog. These are his opinions, and he has every right to them.

I think Ken Rockwell's site is a good starting place for many new Nikon owners. Yes he loves over saturated pictures, and he makes comments that raise eyebrows when commenting on cameras, and lenses, especially the ones he does not how to use, or has almost no experience using.

Ken Rockwell suggests passing on my beloved 16-85mm which is my favorite indoor lens. lol. He said get the 18-200mm and skip it. He does not like reflex mirror lenses, and suggest skipping them. I love my Nikon 500mm F5 Mirror Reflex which is as sharp as a tack for me, even with the TC200 on it, which it usually is, but I mount it on a transom. I like my Sony AF 500mm F8 too. I hardly ever see a donut in the background, but not using them when my 300mm AF-S F4 is the best lens.

Ken Rockwell keeps it simple with his definitive statements which is probably less confusing for many new comers to Nikon and DSLR. His advice is frequently on track, and he may save people feeling their way a few bucks.

Reading is the art of filtering out the useless, or bad information, and verifying the potentially good information. We all have different views and we are entitled to them.

Posted 10 months ago #
Gabbb

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"Canon beats Nikon - this year

I know most of you are Nikon shooters and the world thinks I'm some sort of Nikon Icon, but like any other good horserace, the two contestants sometimes swap positions."

All that only because Mr. jpeg shooter has trouble adjusting white balance with the d800 lcd :)

Posted 10 months ago #
msmoto

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@Funduro

"Oh dear i'm tearing up. Excuse me I need to get a Kleenex to clean the teats off the keyboard"

Gosh, I am jealous.....

I do love typos, though...

Posted 10 months ago #
bjrichus

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Gabbb said:
"Canon beats Nikon - this year

I know most of you are Nikon shooters and the world thinks I'm some sort of Nikon Icon, but like any other good horserace, the two contestants sometimes swap positions."

All that only because Mr. jpeg shooter has trouble adjusting white balance with the d800 lcd :)

Lets be fair and balanced, shall we? ;-) I think the real issues for him are:

"...the D800 takes a few steps backwards with its clumsy ergonomics."

and

"...the C1 C2 C3 modes of my Canon get me there in one click, while the D800's idiotic menu banks..."

Now then people ... What do YOU think?

Posted 10 months ago #
bjrichus

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mark_wilkins said:
I find Ken Rockwell's comments interesting for some purposes, but I also found this incredibly amusing:

http://froknowsphoto.com/raw-vs-jpeg-vs-ken-rockwell-interview/

"He's [Ken] not a professional photographer"

;-)

Posted 10 months ago #
sevencrossing

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bjrichus said:

Now then people ... What do YOU think?

I have a D700 and D800. having got used to the D800, I prefer the new focus switch on the D800. It is too easy to accidentally switched to manual focus with the D700

Nikon have custom menus and once you get to used them they are quick and easy to use

Posted 10 months ago #
bjrichus

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sevencrossing said:
I have a D700 and D800. having got used to the D800, I prefer the new focus switch on the D800. It is too easy to accidentally switched to manual focus with the D700

Nikon have custom menus and once you get to used them they are quick and easy to use

Exactly.

This means?

Ken didn't do a comprehensive job of learning how to use the Nikon.

Yes?

Posted 10 months ago #
donaldejose

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Seems to me a very minor point. With the D7000 you can switch from U1 to U2 with a one click of left hand dial while looking at the top of the camera as it is hanging in front of you. With the D800 you need three or four movements: press the menu button with your left thumb, then press the multifunction button 2 or 3 or more times to scroll through the menu to change from Custom Menu A to B or C or D. More steps, more time delay. Not a problem in the studio. But seconds count in some situations such as photo journalism and sports (and Ken would say photographing your active kids). So as I read Ken's complaint it is that Nikon forces you to make extra movements and take extra time which creates an unwanted delay in changing your settings between shots. He wants to make the change in one movement so he prefers the Canon. It can be a valid point for some photographers in some situations. But I would say those type of photographers are not likely to select the D800 in the first place.

Posted 10 months ago #
spraynpray

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I'm not sure what you mean exactly Donald. I have the D7000 so I know how to use that, but is it that KR gets surprised by an opportunity to shoot pics of his kids? I would have thought he knew before that action started that he was going to shoot pics of them so had his basic settings set. That is apart from the fact that they would still be there from the last time he used the camera as shooting his kids is all he does isn't it?

Posted 10 months ago #
donaldejose

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Ken is saying that he uses different settings for different situations and wants to change quickly between them. Let me give an example: I like using Vivid for nature photography and have even cranked up the saturation and the sharpness settings in Vivid to yield a VI* in the menu screen. But my wife has been complaining that she dislikes all her photos because they show her wrinkles. So I did some testing and found using Portrait with the sharpening at its lowest setting and the saturation up one notch is how she likes to see her face. This gives me a PT* on the menu. I like more sharpness and more saturation than she does. Now I have to switch between VI* and PT* whenever I change from photographing a scene to photographing a portrait or even a scene with her in it. Ken is saying the same thing. He likes shooting wild color but that doesn't yield the most pleasing skin tones. And this is just one adjustment among many which can be made when shooting different subjects all mixed together at the same time. While I have not used the U1 and U2 feature on my D7000 I understand it will memorize many different settings and then you can switch from kids (or wife) to wild colors (or nature) back and forth quickly by just moving the dial from U1 to U2 as you shoot one and then the other and then back and then back again, such as when you are shooting your kids on a trip and you have scenics and then kids and then scenics and then kids all within 4 minutes time at a roadside stop. The same thing can be done with the D800 using Shooting Banks in the menu but it takes many more steps to make each switch. Ken is big on buttons and dials to make a change in one step instead of making changes through menus which require many steps. For example, on the D7000 you have to press the menu button and then scroll through the menus to find picture controls to change from Vivid to Portrait or other. The D800 has improve the situation. Press the key button with your left hand thumb (second down on the left side of the LCD) and you are immediately in picture controls. I like that feature. Some call this new button function "the Ken Rockwell button." Look also at that top left hand dial on the D300, D300s, D3, D3s, D4, D700 and D800. Now look at that top left hand dial on your D7000. Notice yours lacks the buttons for Quality, White Balance, ISO and Bracketing? Why the buttons on those professional bodies and not on the D7000? So the professional can more quickly change those key settings on the fly to "get the shot" in a fast moving situation. Quick access to key functions is one of the differences found in pro DSLRs. Ken is saying the same thing. When there is a feature he thinks is important and changes back and forth often it should be quickly accessible with a button and not hidden deep in a menu structure. I think he is right. Of course, there are only so many buttons you can have on a body.

Question: Does anyone here use the U1 and U2 settings on the D7000? If so, would you like to have a U1 and U2 setting on the D800 top left hand dial like it exists on the D7000. Any reason Nikon could not have made it that way? YES! That dial has those key function buttons on top. The mode function change in the D800 is made by pressing the Mode button with your right index finger and by spinning the rear dial with your thumb. BUT, why could Nikon not have given us a U1 and U2 function accessed quickly by pressing the mode button with your right index finger and spinning the rear dial with your thumb? You get S,P,M,A that way. Why cannot you also get a setting for U1 and U2? Then you set all the settings you want for U1 and U2 in the menu structure and when you spin to U1 the camera remembers all the settings you want and automatically changes them. Think of it like this. You have a windows PC. You can set up different desktop preferences and switch between them when different people use the computer by simply clicking the switch user button. Why cannot Nikon make it that easy for us? That is Ken's point, as I understand it, and I think it is a valid point. Maybe the D600 will have this feature.

Yes, he overstates the point but that is part of the Rush in Ken.

Posted 10 months ago #
jmc6155

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In KRs defense, I have seen some stunning landscapes in his galleries, along with the occasional toilet.

Posted 10 months ago #
donaldejose

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I am not into toilet photography but I did think Ken made creative use of the graffiti he found in toilets. His super saturated colors and careful composition turned what I would consider an eyesore into modern art. I give him credit for seeing what I would not have seen and for knowing what to do to extract "modern art" out of an eyesore. He posted the pics as examples of composition and use of color. Good work.

Posted 10 months ago #
spraynpray

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Sorry Donald, I won't try sarcastic humour again ;-)

Posted 10 months ago #
Gabbb

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I've got a habit of setting my camera up after I stopped taking photos in a way that I can start taking snapshots real quick if the need arises, that being said having the u1,u2 can be useful on the d7k. i have on bank set up for sports and one for ultra low light with auto iso, but this is really nothing. He has a Leica and he is not complaining about the lack of many things that are useful when taking photos.

Posted 10 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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donaldejose said:
Question: Does anyone here use the U1 and U2 settings on the D7000? If so, would you like to have a U1 and U2 setting on the D800 top left hand dial like it exists on the D7000.

Ahhh the difference between a Nikon consumer camera and a Nikon "pro-er" body. Is it needed - No. Why - because you can have 30 or 99 (let's leave it at a lot) of saved settings.

For those who don't know - Nikon has the "My Menu" you can add items and change the order in which they appear. If it was the last Menu you were on, it comes up first.
There is the "Shooting menu Bank" that can hold all of these user settings and saves them. For me I have it the second slot down (under ISO settings) and have 4 basic settings - Basic, People, Super Vivid, BW (my created names and settings). Picture control (Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast, Brightness, & Hue) are all set and saved for each one for the last setting you used them on. The only thing major it doesn't save is the ISO settings. That is why that is my first item.

It take me less than 2 seconds to change the settings and when you are shooting events, you rarely need to change the settings mid stream.

If you are actually going to use a camera for more than 2 weeks, one would think you would set these up. This is one of the types of things that annoy the hell out of me when people compare systems. They don't learn how to use them, and call out something they didn't learn, and make it a fault of the system.

Posted 10 months ago #
TriShooter

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TaoTeJared said:

........

If you are actually going to use a camera for more than 2 weeks, one would think you would set these up. This is one of the types of things that annoy the hell out of me when people compare systems. They don't learn how to use them, and call out something they didn't learn, and make it a fault of the system.

TaoTeJared, excellent post!

Posted 10 months ago #
kanuck

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I haven't been enjoying the fact that he's ripping on Nikon just because they screwed up with all the back orders. Again don't take it out on the actual camera itself.

Posted 10 months ago #
Eric

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I agree with TaoTeJared.

In addition, for those of us who shoot RAW, many of the settings you might like to have stored as a preset simply don't matter as they only effect jpegs. For example setting your camera to monochrome will give you a B&W thumbnail, but you still get a color image in Lightroom or PS.

Perhaps, I am missing something, but the things I want to adjust have readily accessible controls on the body (and incidentally I prefer the new AF mode selection). I do have some presets, but the camera is just not that hard to adjust for what I want. Most folks who would purchase a D800 are doing so because they want the IQ, whether or not they can or will use that IQ is their business. The problem with choosing convenience over capability is that you limit your ability to up your game; and the D800 is all about upping your game. To sacrifice the D800s IQ for some convenience features that have little impact on my shooting, and to pay $500 more for that sacrifice, is hard to get my head around.

Posted 10 months ago #
donaldejose

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Right, it is a minor point and I think KR is wrong to claim Canon is a better choice than the D800 over this issue. With a D800 you can set it to JPEG and small size and Basic if you are shooting ordinary snapshots of people and then you can (attempt) to use the full 36 mp when you want them for quality. I think it is a two for one camera.

Posted 10 months ago #