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Ren Crockwell and the D800

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birdman

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I go to his site every now and again to use his reviews for a lens or to see a lens shootout. Today I went to see if he had any promo codes for 35mm development. I found a bunch of old family disposables and other rolls that were apparently never developed.

Anyway, I hate to ask but is the D800 lcd screen THAT BAD? C'mon, really? I haven't used the camera yet but of course it's hilarious that his downgrade of Nikon comes at a time when availability is very, very limited. When a new firmware is released, to coincide with an abundance of (available) D800's selling like Two Dollar pistols then the sad old song will NOT remain the same. What a crock!! I don't believe anyone these days. Especially not someone whose life and livelihood depend on internet sales.

Posted 11 months ago #
crizman

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Yeah this guy seems hell bent on ripping Nikon every chance he gets. It gets old fast!

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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My take on this:

#1. I have only used ONE D800 and only then for about 15 minutes so can only speak about it, not all D800's. The screen color was not balanced as I expected it to be, but I was too busy with the rest of it all for the color to have been at the top of my list of "things", so it can't have been all THAT bad/far off normal. The resulting pictures were fine by the way and I didn't hit the focus problem some people have, but then with only 15 minutes and a few dozen shots, I'm not the D800 expert here.

#2. Ren has apparently been seduced to hop back towards the "other" side again, although I only go to his site once every month or so, this week I have actually been there twice already (just to make sure I was reading what he wrote properly)! I think he does overstate some things (Oh yes, also just like he does have some of his camera settings) and with that said, it's his style and so long as you understand that and lower the saturation slider when you read anything of his by about 30%, you'll do well.

Summary: No the LCD isn't "THAT BAD" and just chill a little bit more about who it is we are talking about and you are more on track.

:-)

Posted 11 months ago #
sevencrossing

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Had my 800 for 2 months now

The focussing ergonomics do take getting used to, but the color balance ( I leave it on AUTO ) is spot on

Brilliant camera, Absolutely nothing wrong with the lcd

You don't use the lcd to check correct colour balance in any case , that is done later with LR4 and a calibrated monitor

I used to find his stuff useful but the man does seem to have lost it of late

Any one think of jumping ship talk to a friend who has a C***** about reliability

I have been using Nikon's for over 40 years don't know what a Nikon repair station looks like

Posted 11 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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"Well, finally, I managed to get just Adorama to lower the price — but only for you folks — down to $7,099 if you use coupon code..."

"and somehow over the years I've become the world's largest independent source of photography information. Even the world's largest printed photography magazine has less readership than this website."

"Maybe I'm popular because I'm completely independent. I have no camera companies as advertisers, and I get no free cameras, or even prototypes."

"The largest source of my family's income comes from when you use my links to these stores when you get your stuff."

Ole Ren is an online alter-ego full contradictory absolutes and a growing exaggerated sense of self-importance. D40 forever, my little film camera is better, Leica is the greatest, Canon is the greatest, Nikon is the greatest, Fuji colors are the greatest, Filters degrade IQ, I would always leave a "72mm Hoya Super HMC UV" (with link)...

90% of his stuff is just promo materials copied into his own format with some canned ramblings about the different versions with generalities of what the new tech will add. He over-exaggerates minute shortcomings and strengths that I rarely find remotely important.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the guy - he evidently makes a good living and has created something that very few have. It enables him to enjoy photography and getting up everyday - can't knock that. It is a great site with easy to read specs. His opinions on stuff though, I take with a grain of salt.

Canon has good products, Nikon has good products and both seem to fit a niche with different photographers for one reason or another. Canon is better at this, Nikon is better at that, neither is a perfect glove fit for everyone. Canon stays their course while Nikon steps out and blazes new paths with products that most of us have sat back more than a few times and been dumbfounded at one time or another. Some like it, some hate it, but we are all stuck with it. Why ole Ren feels the need to declare something and what the declaration is, doesn't matter to me. I'm not selling 10 years of glass and accessories just to get a Canon because it is better in some areas at this moment or Ren declares something. Hell if we listened to him, we would be shooting Kodak Brownie cameras with Kodachrome. He has three groups to cater too, existing photographers, newbies, and the id & superego on his shoulder. Which will win - no one will know.

Posted 11 months ago #
birdman

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@ TaoteJared:

So, yeah I agree on all of your major points. I like to reference his lens reviews which i believe are close to as unbiased as possible, since he stands to gain little on touting the 85/1.8AF-D as a bargain purchase (assuming used on Amazon, Ebay, etc.) over the newer 85/1.8.

I have the 5d2 and will be getting the d800 next week; I have never considered the 5d3. I think it's inferior to you-know-who, and insulting given the price premium. I thought about staying w/both systems, but now I just don't know. I see an updated 50/1.8 and 85/1.8, as well as brand new 28/1.8 and 28-85VR (which I believe will be a sleeper); these lens releases are staggering! They are putting out almost every FL of glass that I could ever ask for. Already owning the 50 & 85/1.8 AF-Ds, I may not update both but looking hard at the 28/1.8 for $699. Each system has its own strength but what used to be Canon's pluses (vast selection of modern glass) has been whittled away. Even my beloved 35L has been matched with Nikon's much newer glass. Then you have 24/1.4 and 85/1.4. Besides a cheap 70-200/4.0 what's left?? A newer tilt-shift and maybe 300/4 VR?

Posted 11 months ago #
Gabbb

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I believe at some point Canon got bored with Rockwell's Nikon reviews and payed him to be Canon biased, if I were Canon I would surely would have done that also, especially in a critical time when the 5dmk3 and d800 were about to be released to the customers.

Posted 11 months ago #
Eric

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I appreciate the work that Ren has done reviewing lenses and I have donated to his site. Unfortunately, I no longer feel as if his goal is to help us get the best IQ. Mr. Cockwell, thinks its dumb to shoot anything but jpegs. He believes anything over 12mp is overkill and high ISOs are stupid. He also believes that we should shoot film "The Real Raw" as it is better than digital.

Disclosure: All of my exposures are not perfect, I sometimes don't frame as tight as I might, I print big and sometimes I like to stop motion and have reasonable Dof in dim light.

For me, I shoot raw because I believe that the extra information allows a lot more flexibility in post. I like having more than 12mp so that I can crop and enlarge. I like the things that high ISOs give me. I'm also perfectly willing to tote a heavy tripod in order to capture the image I want. Oh, and BTW, I don't have a darkroom anymore and I really like to see what I'm getting without waiting for the lab.

I am pleased for Mr. Crockwell and the happiness he has found with his 5DmkIII, it's a great camera and Canon does an excellent job with jpegs. Unfortunately, I'm getting a little bored with the "you need to be like me" attitude. He is entitled to his opinion, but he seems to have moved away from providing data so that others can make an informed decision, instead he seems to have adopted a stance where he is simply telling his readers how they can emulate him. ... Sorry Ren, that's not as much fun as the valuable service you used to provide.

Posted 11 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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Eric said:
...I'm getting a little bored with the "you need to be like me" attitude...

+1

You put words to my feelings that I could not.

Posted 11 months ago #
msmoto

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I guess this thread is about someone with a similar name...? There are a lot of folks in this world who are fabulous at rhetoric. In North Carolina we just tried one for criminal acts. Our Banks are full of these people at the top, stealing money from us so we can bail them out later. Corporations do this. So, why should we be surprised if we find one in photography? I hope we all will not get to caught up in defending Nikon, when a lot of the criticism is merely garbage pouring out of the mouths of those who have an opinion just lie we all do.

I read DxOMark...they seem to have a fairly clear handle on what works and what does not.

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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Eric said:
Mr. Cockwell, thinks its dumb to shoot anything but jpegs. He believes anything over 12mp is overkill and high ISOs are stupid. He also believes that we should shoot film "The Real Raw" as it is better than digital.

His view on jpg seems to be based on the use of both his preference for how he cooks his images of his son and on saving space on SD cards. He might be getting some really great images like that and that's OK with me, but its not my way and nor do I suspect is it the way most go about things; that's OK too.

I do agree with him that most people (who use a lowly P&S or camera phone only) are not going to get any better images shooting raw if they could shoot raw that is, but then if a 10x8 print of Granny is a luxury and if you think "What is a Photoshop? I have never seen a Lightroom in my life." then jpg format probably is best for you!

Huh? 12MP ??? I thought he wanted all his "followers" to shoot at 6MP ... Hmmm.

Posted 11 months ago #
spraynpray

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The guy prostitutes himself so obviously as to extinguish any credibility he may have had IMHO.

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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TaoTeJared said:
+1

You put words to my feelings that I could not.

And another +1 from me too.

I like the way you can get at gear specs (relatively) easily on his web site, but there isn't any need for that "be like me" view.

Posted 11 months ago #
kenadams

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"Today I'm reviewing the world's best headphone set for listening to tennis indoors! These headphones (link to amazon) are exactly as I like them: none of these stupid-high frequencies can be heard that nobody ever needs. Tomorrow, I'll write about the world's best headphones for listening to outdoor bowling - where awesome high frequencies are essential, and these are the best for that!! I love my awesome-high frequencies headphones and rarely ever use ones that don't capture them (edit: except for indoor tennis! (link to amazon))"

Posted 11 months ago #
rschnaible

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TaoTeJared said:
Ole Ren is an online alter-ego full contradictory absolutes and a growing exaggerated sense of self-importance. D40 forever, my little film camera is better, Leica is the greatest, Canon is the greatest, Nikon is the greatest, Fuji colors are the greatest, Filters degrade IQ, I would always leave a "72mm Hoya Super HMC UV" (with link)...

90% of his stuff is just promo materials copied into his own format with some canned ramblings about the different versions with generalities of what the new tech will add. He over-exaggerates minute shortcomings and strengths that I rarely find remotely important.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the guy - he evidently makes a good living and has created something that very few have. It enables him to enjoy photography and getting up everyday - can't knock that. It is a great site with easy to read specs. His opinions on stuff though, I take with a grain of salt.

Canon has good products, Nikon has good products and both seem to fit a niche with different photographers for one reason or another. Canon is better at this, Nikon is better at that, neither is a perfect glove fit for everyone. Canon stays their course while Nikon steps out and blazes new paths with products that most of us have sat back more than a few times and been dumbfounded at one time or another. Some like it, some hate it, but we are all stuck with it. Why ole Ren feels the need to declare something and what the declaration is, doesn't matter to me. I'm not selling 10 years of glass and accessories just to get a Canon because it is better in some areas at this moment or Ren declares something. Hell if we listened to him, we would be shooting Kodak Brownie cameras with Kodachrome. He has three groups to cater too, existing photographers, newbies, and the id & superego on his shoulder. Which will win - no one will know.

You are a wise one :) Well said

Posted 11 months ago #
andrewz

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TaoTeJared, as usual you are the voice of reason, I agree 100%. Ole Ren is the Rush of photography, love him or hate him, we're talking about him, which is exactly what he wants! I do read his lens reviews and take his opinions with a grain of salt except when he agrees with me, then i like what he has to say... I also think he enjoys stirring the pot a little and what better way to do that than to say the 5DIII is better than the D800 because you can get it right now. Well yeah there so perverse logic there but really.... Oh but it's fun to talk and he's found a way to make money doing it. This is funny if you like chuck Norris http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40023765

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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andrewz said:
TaoTeJared, as usual you are the voice of reason,

Indeed. Well, most of the time... ;-)

andrewz said:
This is funny if you like chuck Norris http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40023765

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... Nice one. It's hard to find just one that sums it up but:

"Ken Rockwell doesn't color correct. He adjusts your world to match his."

Kind of works for me...

Posted 11 months ago #
Wataru

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TaoTeJared said:... Hell if we listened to him, we would be shooting Kodak Brownie cameras with Kodachrome.

TTJ, you say that like it's a bad thing!

Actually, when I stumbled on to the site I thought it was pretty comprehensive, but his attitude towards RAW surprised me. I've seen a couple of his videos on YouTube, and I understand now that his photography is completely different from mine in both intent and execution. I use the camera both professionally and as a hobby, and his lens recommendations dont work for me. His JPEG recommendation is astonishing, as I can think of no reason to shoot jpeg with either of my Nikon digitals, although my canon p&s only does jpeg.

Yes, it's great he makes money, but I don't think I want to be him.

Where is my Brownie, anyway...remind me sometime to tell you the story of the first picture I ever took in my life (it was 50 years ago this Summer and I took it with a Brownie.)

Posted 11 months ago #
SquamishPhoto

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In a world of making money from photography its perhaps the least admirable fashion to make a fortune at it. Upon examining his actual photography its obvious that he's not of professional caliber and that out of anybody out there that should actually follow his advice on the Nikon D40, its him that should really stick to consumer cameras. Listening to him go on about the MkIII over the D800 is like listening to some douche with a Beamer and a Mercedes hoo and haw about which one he likes more for driving to quik-e-mart.

Posted 11 months ago #
Eric

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Perhaps his latest stance is an attempt to pressure Nikon into changing the firmware so that we have settings that can be recalled and the stored settings would not change unless explicitly told to do so. ... I can assure you that if Nikon makes that change, he will take credit for their having done it, and there may be some validity in that.

@bjrichus ... Yes, I believe you are correct; 6mp is the most I would ever need (according to Ren)

Posted 11 months ago #
donaldejose

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Let me defend Ken for a minute. I think there is too much "busting" on him on this site.

Saying Ken is like Rush is sort of accurate: he does make an effort to entertain with his writing and being entertaining often means saying things in an extreme way. Look at comics material sometime: humor is often found in saying something which has a grain of truth but by saying it in an extreme way. For example, I once saw a Hispanic comic say he celebrates Black History month every year by having sex with white girls. The audience roared. I don't know if that is a stereo type or not. Try to enjoy Ken'ss comments realizing he is often being extreme for entertainment sake; like a comic. He is not trying to write "the Bible."

Yes he is opinionated and, like many people, thinks whatever he prefers is "the best way." Almost everyone who takes their religion very seriously also thinks that their particular religion is "the best way" and not equal to "all the other ways." Sure, his use of color is extreme, like many of his opinions. But I do try some of his preferences and I personally like going about half way to his strong colors. That is my personal preference. If I had not read his material I probably would not have tried many of the things he says. Yes, 6mb and the D40 is "enough" but Ken now uses a D3200 and you have to take the "enough" comment in context: snapping family photos. Just like you have to take his JPEG and RAW comments in context: he doesn't want to do post process work so there is no need for the flexibility RAW. That is likely true of most people. Ken does say that if you are a professional sports photographer you need a D4. He realizes its added abilities; he just says most people really don't need to shoot as 11 FPS. He agrees that if you are tying to get the most detail: you need a D800. But lets face it: how many people here actually ever view their photographs larger than their monitor screen or print them larger than 17 x 22? I have printed some D7000 images at 20 x 30 and were surprised they came out so well considering that I had shot them in JPEG basic and had cropped them a bit before printing! So I recognize there is some truth in what he says. The big difference is that Ken is talking to a group of photographers different than you find on this site. He is talking to the hobbyist who mostly takes family and travel snapshots. Most of us strive to produce a professional quality product; whether or not we are paid for our work.

Just take Ken for what he is: a source of information and a source of opinion. Use the information you find helpful and reject the opinions you disagree with. There is not reason to "hate" him or "bust" upon him.

Now here is where Ken is not like the Rush of photography. I think Rush all too often states things in such an extreme that he distorts the facts and looses credibility. For Rush, ratings and controversy are more important than accuracy or human decency. Ken doesn't go that far in my opinion. I stopped listening to Rush long ago because he was too extreme he lost credibility to me. So if you find Ken too extreme, just don't visit his website.

Here is quite a good link I found by visiting his site today. Check out this link.

http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/PhotoZone/Archives/2011/2011-Photo-Contest-Winners-Slideshow.aspx

Posted 11 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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Eric said:
Perhaps his latest stance is an attempt to pressure Nikon into changing the firmware so that we have settings that can be recalled and the stored settings would not change unless explicitly told to do so. ... I can assure you that if Nikon makes that change, he will take credit for their having done it, and there may be some validity in that.

@bjrichus ... Yes, I believe you are correct; 6mp is the most I would ever need (according to Ren)

Thom will take credit as well ;) Although it is a damn good idea.

@andrewz - That is the funniest damn link I have read in a long time.
(I'm knocking a few out due to length)

Ken Rockwell is the Chuck Norris of photography
Ken Rockwell's camera has similar settings to ours, except his are: P[erfect] Av[Awesome Priority Tv[Totally Awesome Priority] M[ajestic]
Ken Rockwell doesn't color correct. He adjusts your world to match his.
Ken Rockwell doesn't adjust his DOF, he changes space-time.
Ken Rockwell doesn't wait for the light when he shoots a landscape - the light waits for him.
Ken Rockwell ordered an L-lens from Nikon, and got one.
Ken Rockwell is the only person to have photographed Jesus; unfortunately he ran out of film and had to use a piece of cloth instead.
Only Ken Rockwell can take pictures of Ken Rockwell; everyone else would just get their film overexposed by the light of his genius
Ken Rockwell once designed a zoom lens. You know it as the Hubble SpaceTelescope.
On Ken Rockwell's desktop, the Trash Icon is really a link to National Geographic Magazine
Ken Rockwell spells point-and-shoot "h-a-s-s-e-l-b-l-a-d"
For every 10 shots that Ken Rockwell takes, 11 are keepers.
Ken Rockwell's digital files consist of 0's, 1's AND 2's.
Ken Rockwell's shots are so perfect, Adobe redesigned photoshop for him: all it consists of is a close button.
The term tripod was coined after his silhouette
Ken Rockwell never produces awful work, only work too advanced for the viewer
Ken Rockwell never starts, he continues

"The term tripod was coined after his silhouette" That is just frick'n hilarious! That is a keeper there.

I respect those who blog or create review sites - I just don't see the need for absolutism in conclusions.

Raw vs Jpeg? I shoot tons of jpegs - they are usually of nothing and I'm not going to get paid for them. If I will be paid or I believe something will be a great shot - Raw. My dogs, friends golfing, nonsensical stuff - jpg.

6mp/12mp - I have said before and I still do believe it - give me a P&S with 6-8MP, 24-80mm f2 (static) lens, a sensor M4/3 or larger, with great high iso of 6400, and I could use that for years to come. That would be a game changer. Facebook would never know the MP.

Film resolution: Sure if you have a scanner that can scan 1million lines per inch it produces huge files. Doesn't mean the film is any better than a digital sensor but that you used higher settings than you needed to.

That's my thoughts - others think differently for different reasons that work for them.

Posted 11 months ago #
NSXType-R

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Anyone remember when he said the D40 was all you needed?

Then he got a 5D Mk III and a D800...

Thom Hogan had a couple thoughts on gear- all the photos you've ever admired were taken on old gear that probably isn't current. No photos are ever taken with future gear so stop waiting for new gear to come out.

Posted 11 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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One last thought - I like review sites that put "Dates of Published" on their articles and who revisit them to add "changes" since written. That usually clears up most opinions. Ren and the D40 is kind of like this - although it seems like he keeps holding on to it a bit as he hasn't updated it.

When I see a 50mm 1.4 G review that is bad, I look at the HTML date - it almost always was a pre-production or in the time-frame of the first couple of runs of the lens which did seem to have some issues. The later runs created lenses that work as it should.

Few ever go back to note something on what they wrote. I see some of this as reading an encyclopedia from 1900 and taking it as true. A few things have happen since then that are slightly important. (You can start with the end of the Russian Empire, rise of the Soviet Union, and then it's fall.)

This is the broken crutch of the internet as a whole and not just with his site.

Posted 11 months ago #
jmc6155

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I read his site all the time, but still have my own opinions. I sure do agree with him that Nikon should left the focus lever to choose spot or 9 point or auto from the D700; I really miss that. But, I'm also sure that I will get used to the new way of doing things, too (Push the front AF button and spin the top dial). I certainly am not going to sell all my lenses and go buy a Canon. The one thing I don't get is that if the D800 is for people who can take their time, then why doesn't he just use a point and shoot for all the changing circumstances swirling around him when he takes a photograph?

Posted 11 months ago #