where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
This is why all future cameras will have HD video in my opinion. You'll be able to record video of a scene and then simply freeze a still and make that a photograph later. A lot of clients have been asking about this technique. What do you think?
The flexible video "paper" looks awesome!
What magazine accepts 2MP photos, especially for a double-truck? What is that, low 100's PPI?
This is the beginning of the end for photographers. Skill and technique will no longer be a requirement as anyone with a video capable DSLR will be able to shoot a movie clip and just grab still from it.
This is not a good development for traditional photographers.
We've had decades and decades of monkeys behind typewriters (and word processors) and still no one has banged out Shakespere - I don't think decades of monkeys shooting millions of (2MP) HD video frames is anything to worry about. ;)
You can wave a HD camera around all you want and scrape your "best" (2MP) frames - doesn't give you good composition (except by accident), lighting (period) or vision.
You could argue that at 15FPS, DSLR's are getting very close to encroaching on video. So I think that maybe you've got it backwards. Your less likely to take a video and make it into a still than you are to take 25 stills and make it into a video.
Is there a difference between the two?... probably not. Just a matter of what format you get in your output. Currently, thought, we don't have video displays that match the reolution we get from still photography unless you blow it up rediculously big... Even a 30 inch apple cinima display only has about 2-4 megapixels. You would need at least four of them linked together to show an image from my D90 at full resolution.
There is also the problem of lighting. Still photographers use (mostly) strobes to light their subjects. People who understand composition (read: Not Me) know how to use light and the area around their subject to create a narrative for your eyes. Everything is meticulously thought out. Run&Gun video isn't going to replace that, and there aren't a lot of subjects that can handle more than a few minuets under hot-lights without getting sweaty.
Digital cameras are tools for different purposes: Anyway a few years back we said film will newer be replaced by Digital, we said our DSLR will newer have video but it did happen.
The future will properly give us cameras that can shoot 24 frames per second at full quality(or portion of full quality), memory cards will be in TB and the camera can then shot video and stills at the same time, TV resolution will also someday increase UHDV (in very early planning stage is up to 32MP 7680 x 4320 pixels, samsung has made a TV with 3840 x 2160 pixels 8MP)
So I bet you we will eventually have a DSLR with different MP settings lets just say 12 and 24, it will be mirror less or an electronic mirror/shutter, it can shoot 24 frames per second at 12MP(or higher), which can be both used as video and individual pictures can be picked from the stream of pictures, 24MP(or higher) would be slower frames/sec
A camera like that would be fun to shoot sports with
And NikoDoby I did not smoke something again, you started this post, and I still want a better flash from Nikon incl weatherproofing just to make you happy
Over The Air bandwidth will persist as being a limit to the adoption of next-gen HD television as long as a large number of people continue to receive in that manner. :(
That's exactly what I was talking about...timing, execution, technique will all be meaningless for a sports "photographer". All you need is someone following the action shooting video and pulling stills out of it later. Doesn't sound like fun to me. But then again, I am a photographer, not a videographer.
My position was quite the opposite, takefive, from what you're saying.
I was arguing that despite the technological advances in all the arts we aren't seeing a rash of "insta-pros" in any of the fields.
Who needs to mix egg pigments anymore? Who needs to shape their own brushes? etc etc.
Creative vision is creative vision - technology can't give that to you.
I guess this is one innovation that I am resisting. But then again, back when I was shooting film I was a nay sayer and thought digital would never take off. Now I can't imagine being without my D700. Never say never.
At the risk of starting another "I've got to have the last word while beating a dead horse" argument, why do you keep mentioning 2MP soap?
I agree with what you wrote bmxdad, I'm smoking the same stuff as you this time :^)
takefive, that's what I was referring to. Apply this technique at a wedding. You shoot the entire wedding as video and then go back and grab stills for prints. I think that's very cool but I also do think it will let any "trained monkey" shoot a wedding.
However because of this I, as a photographer, will have to adapt to what's coming. In other words I will now have to shoot a scene as a film director and not just as a photographer. As a photographer I only have to worry about lighting, composition, color, single image manipulation and lens choice but as a director I will worry additionally about sound, camera movement, special effects and editing.
I don't think this will spell the end of "just" photography (polaroid didn't finish off the portrait, or event photographer) but I do think future cameras will have this ability as they all now have auto focus.
NikoDoby: Because a frozen still from HD video is ~2 megapixels.
General: I believe there will always be a place for still photography, regardless of capture technology.
A - Still photos allow the viewer a level of contemplation and inspection not available from video.
B - Still photos allow the taker creative freedoms (lighting, posing, composition, etc.) not available to the videographer w/o a crew and much more involved infrastructure. As I think was already mentioned in this thread it takes mondo lighting to do for video what a few small strobes can do for photo.
takefive: You can call me a resister of video if you want. ;) I think of my self more as "incapable of the demands of video". ;)
lastword.
*facepalm*
So 2mp is the magical barrier from which no HD video camera will ever improve on and your about to tells us all why, right?
WRONG WILLIS-lastword ;^)
It will, but the greater the penetration of 1080p the slower the improvement adoption rate will be, and we WILL reach a "good enough" point.
There are physical limits (information theory) on compression levels and over-the-air bandwidth limits. Both of these will have an increasingly large influence on what standards get adopted, and what possibilities never reach market.
Where the video format curve levels off I do not know, but you said HD and I took you literally.
EDIT:
Also there are the limits of human perception. What the pixels-per-degree number is for that I do not know, but that is the unit you need to keep in mind when it comes to video. Already we are at the point that 1080p is indistinguishable from 720p in many home viewing situations, as the PPD of 720p @ close range is greater than the resolution of perception.
I think it will take a cultural demand for "large format" display/projection of higer def video for there to be an economic motivation for a successor format to 1080p. As it stands now the trend is towards smaller screens in theaters and more viewing at home (where it isn't until you get to the larger projection systems that you get the full advantage of 1080p.)
720p is the most I'll ever need, really?! I'm biting my tongue because there's just no point, but I guess you also think your Atari 2600 is at the limit of everyone's gaming needs too. Did you not watch the video? The cover and article photos are stills from the video! A number of magazines have already done this before, namely Esquire Magazine. Soap, you and I should only have these discussions while cleaning firearms and consuming lots of alcohol. It'll be safer that way :^)
So anyway...lastword ;^)
OK everyone
Taking 24 frames per sec would require even higher skill level as compared to less frames per second and if done right would produce some fantastic video with even wilder stills to be picked from it. I would newer use that technique for poses but I could see using it when the bride is walking in at a wedding, the first dance etc
TV will increase in resolution, the next type of blueray and games will demand it
This will not be for everyone lots will resist, most will adapt and eventually we will think why all the fuss about getting it
I am done also with this one
Pete
NikoDoby "720p is the most I'll ever need, really?! I'm biting my tongue because there's just no point, but I guess you also think your Atari 2600 is at the limit of everyone's gaming needs too"
Way to strawman me, NikoDoby.
Please limit your arguments to what I said, not what you wish I said.
For I did not say, anywhere, that 720 was enough for you, I said that depending on viewing range (and screen size) 720p was more than capable of PPD numbers greater than human perception, and that 1080p moreso.
There must be an economic incentive to push new technology to adoption - not just a technological ability. DVD-A and SACD have both failed in the marketplace, despite having superior specs to red-book audio. (Though we at HA are still waiting for a successful 24bit vs 16bit ABX at normal (sub ~130db peak) listening levels.)
So long as video standards are controlled by least-common-denominator (terrestrial broadcast) economics, there just isn't the bandwidth for wide adoption of >1080p. Which is why I mentioned a cultural move towards more large (larger than home theater) display of HD video. Human PPD sensitivities to moving objects are much lower than their PPD sensitivities to static images, and therefore at normal (sane) viewing distances 1080p will _likely_ be judged as "good enough" by the marketplace as a whole for a while to come, regardless of the technological ability to do more.
And if 2 megapixel video frames are good enough for a magazine double-truck I don't want to hear anymore about the D700 only shooting 12MP stills! ;)
EDIT:
s/more/move/
EDIT 2:
Quote added.
You didn't quote anything I wrote soap so I don't know what your referring to, but the straw man thing is a very cute comeback though :^)
Anyway back to the implementation of photography and video. I like the concept of the flexible electronic paper screens. I'd really like to try that out someday. New tech like the Kindle and similar readers will really open things up. I'm really excited about how all of this could be used someday soon. Imagine not only having your photos blown up to poster size but having your video also play on that same thin sheet of paper!
Quote added for you. Strawman indeed. You accused me of saying something I did not say because it was easier to attack what you wish I had said versus what I actually said.
Just let it go already soap and move on
Hey guys have you noticed the gear behind all this? Cameras, lights, rail etc?
Do you really think you will be able do anything similar with any hand sized camera?
Moving on would start with not accusing me of things I carefully did not say. You'll find a more successful career as "the good man" who moves on if you don't fall into fallacious lines of attack at the drop of a hat.
Hoops, it seems I got in the middle of something; sorry guys keep on what ever you are doing …
Chill out soap ! This is suppose to be a friendly discussion not a shouting match, so just let it go.
Anyway back to the implementation of photography and video. I like the concept of the flexible electronic paper screens. I'd really like to try that out someday. New tech like the Kindle and similar readers will really open things up. I'm really excited about how all of this could be used someday soon. Imagine not only having your photos blown up to poster size but having your video also play on that same thin sheet of paper!
True mb, but photography can also be a huge production as well. I've seen 6 figure $$$$ photography sets that included everything from pyrotechnics to animal handlers and that was just for stills! You won't have to invest in a camera jib or dolly tracks but a tripod might be a good idea :^)
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