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1. 

   bjrichus
   

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   I need some help understanding a couple of people I know.

   These are two photographers who consider themselves to be really "good".

   Yet while to my eye, they are indeed outstanding technically (I cannot fault the technique, image quality as in the quantity of detail, shadow gradation and so on), the subjects they choose to take shots of all have what appears to me to be a similar problem: NO PEOPLE.

   Windows, doors, ruins, flowers, fields of grass, rivers, roads with nothing on them, icebergs yes, but not even anyone in the edges or just walking away with backs to the camera in the far distance ... they have NOBODY, NONE, ZIP, NADA ... no people. NOWHERE in their shots do they EVER photograph people. I have not even seen family members in snap shots on desks or anything like that from them. Its as if they fear a monster is going to jump out and bite them if they point their beloved cameras at a person.

   On reflection, apart from trees, flowers and grass, I have not seen anything living in their photographs. No pets, children ... Man! These are not professionals but enthusiasts who have the resources to get good quality gear and may even have all the very best gear delivered to them the day it is released.

   Can the psychologists we have give me some input here? Is this something that you find in "club" level photographers, where they critique each others technical abilities and that is all they are interested in, or is there something else going on?

   Posted 1 year ago #
2. 

   jonnyapple
   

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   As someone who mostly takes pictures of people I can't understand that, but I guess to each his own. I find people to be the most interesting subjects. You know large parts of our brain are dedicated to recognizing and interpreting faces, body language, and emotions, so to never include people seems like a waste of resources in your viewers!

   That said, I can understand why for exactly those reasons there are some times where people would distract from the story you're really trying to tell.

   Posted 1 year ago #
3. 

   rschnaible
   

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   I think it is a personal preference. I love to take photo's of both people and "things" without people. I often find with the non-people shots trying to find an angle to eliminate them. Perhaps they have people shots in other places that they have not shared with you?

   Posted 1 year ago #
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   cyclekraft
   

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   Photography has many similarities to painting. Some painting are fine art (abstract, minimalist, surreal, expressionist) while others are classic (portraits, landscapes, etc). One approach is no better than the other. It truly is in the eye of the beholder.

   I see a lot of "people" photography as boring and more of a form of documentation than it is art or pleasing to look at. Of course there are exceptions. To me, personally...people are boring and contrived.

   Posted 1 year ago #
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   NSXType-R
   

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   People are very difficult to shoot. I tend to shy away from it. It doesn't mean I never shoot people though- I end up taking photos of my cousins, but I never post any of it to respect their privacy.

   But it's certainly not a part of photography I do a lot of.

   See, I wouldn't mind doing more street photography, but in this age of extreme privacy, I'm afraid of someone suing the bejeezus out of me, even though on public streets they really can't. I just don't want the attention, so I don't shoot people on the streets.

   Posted 1 year ago #
6. 

   bjrichus
   

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   Guys ... It's not like its a preference thing or anything like that, it appears like this is a deliberate avoidance (photographically speaking) of all living things more threatening than a small tree. :-)

   These guys are seriously avoiding shots of anything alive.

   They can't be scared of getting a model release form signed, can they?

   Posted 1 year ago #
7. 

   msmoto
   

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   Oh my, oh my....bjrichus....you have done it now.... :-)

   I think the subject/question is quite interesting. The answer is, however, unavailable. While one can make certain assumptions from folks behaviors, the attempt to put the "no people" photos in one category is probably not a meaningful action. Maybe like saying all vegans are the same, or eat the vegan food for the same reason. Or, sort of a technique used in "profiling".

   Well, now that I have given my disclaimers, I will say a couple of things which are based upon professional experience. First, we must remove from our study group, the folks who simply have chosen to do their work in landscapes, still lives, and other non-model related photographic interests. What is left are the folks who do not take photos of people because they are afraid to. Relating to an inanimate object is fairly simple. But, when we pick up a camera, the question of our own self esteem is projected into the interaction with others and the result is we find ourselves unable to take photos of people. Personal boundaries become very important. If we have poor personal boundaries we may be either timid, overly aggressive, dependent or aloof.. Any of these will impair one's ability to relate to others and thus the recording of a photograph requires a very large effort to overcome this. Cameras have been know to totally paralyze people. And if we "point" a camera at someone and they do not want their photo taken, we are caught in a trap we have set for ourself. We are now an aggressor. Most of us do not want this, yet unless we are aware of the proper way to begin an interaction with a subject, this can happen.

   Well, a couple of thoughts on the subject. However, unless one has the proper training in the area of psychological issues, this is not really a good idea to try and figure out why someone might not "shoot" people . This is clearly one area where a "little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

   Enough....

   Posted 1 year ago #
8. 

   jaysb3
   

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   NSXType-R said:
   People are very difficult to shoot. I tend to shy away from it. It doesn't mean I never shoot people though- I end up taking photos of my cousins, but I never post any of it to respect their privacy.

   But it's certainly not a part of photography I do a lot of.

   See, I wouldn't mind doing more street photography, but in this age of extreme privacy, I'm afraid of someone suing the bejeezus out of me, even though on public streets they really can't. I just don't want the attention, so I don't shoot people on the streets.

   The wife does not like me taking pictures of her around the house. And I'm not crazy about having my picture taken either.

   The dog is pretty cool with it. As long as I'm not using the AF illuminate light for very long.

   Posted 1 year ago #
9. 

   Pierre
   

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   I find it takes lots of self-esteem and courage to write anything after msmoto, someone who can expose your inner working just by the way you say hello... lol... (love you...).

   Me like many here apparently, I have mixed feeling about shooting people, I do not like the crowds, standing passer-by or cars that ruin an otherwise perfect landscape plus we see them all the time, everywhere, days and nights. It is actually pretty hard to be a full day without seeing anyone or to just have a shot void of them. One has to work very hard and go very far, and even then. I find interesting, scene or cityscape void of people; it brings back the focus to the scene, something we are not accustomed to, instead of putting people on the forefront blocking the view as always.

   I am very fond of people and have a tendency to be drawn in them, sense who they are... in short I stares, especially the beautiful woman ha! ha! Taking photo of people, especially close-up would require getting their permission as I feel it would be an invasion in their life and right to privacy and they would need to play the game pretending they don’t know I take them, because I like the real life stuff and not the poses… Ouff, I have to take a breath… Plus a big man asking woman, man or even moms for their kids sounds suspicious and very uncomfortable. Perhaps I could hire models, then what my wife would think… plus the cost, I am not there yet. And boy oh boy, so many are just plain ugly and non-interesting. And there are lawsuits. Plus you show your photos and get questioned about who that is, why you took them, what are your motives etc. I took the flowers on my neighbour front yard with the tripod on the sidewalk and had to do 30 minutes of explaining for god sake… No mdam, I am not a pro, no I will not become rich with your flowers, not I should not have to pay you… on and on… Imagine if I was asking for their son or daughter…

   People are sooo complicated and lots of trouble. I think they should be much easier subjects when the photographer is an older woman as she would not usually be associated with predatorial behaviour and therefore less threatening or intimidating.

   I can totally understand someone choosing other subjects, it’s good to take a break plus there are tons of other stuff deserving attention.

   Posted 1 year ago #
10. 

    TaoTeJared
    

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    Too late - brain stuck in loop - reliving psych 181, section 2 - reliving nightmares - long lost pains revisited... Thanks msmoto.

    Thomas D. Mangelsen - I don't think I have ever seen a photo he took of a person. I'm sure he has though.

    With all the interesting things nature and humans have made there are endless things to focus on. Some just don't find people that interesting. And people are hard to shoot well for sure. To each their own.

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. 

    PB PM
    

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    People are tough subjects, and as some others here have said, I just don't like shooting them. Not that I don't shoot people, friends like the photos I take of them, and the wedding shots I did for a family member last year were well received too. For some reason I just don't find shooting people interesting. I think part of it comes down to the fact that my non-photography related job is centred around working with people a lot and the time I spend with my camera is a way to escape that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. 

    Gabbb
    

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    bjrichus said:
    I need some help understanding a couple of people I know.

    These are two photographers who consider themselves to be really "good".

    Yet while to my eye, they are indeed outstanding technically (I cannot fault the technique, image quality as in the quantity of detail, shadow gradation and so on), the subjects they choose to take shots of all have what appears to me to be a similar problem: NO PEOPLE.

    Windows, doors, ruins, flowers, fields of grass, rivers, roads with nothing on them, icebergs yes, but not even anyone in the edges or just walking away with backs to the camera in the far distance ... they have NOBODY, NONE, ZIP, NADA ... no people. NOWHERE in their shots do they EVER photograph people. I have not even seen family members in snap shots on desks or anything like that from them. Its as if they fear a monster is going to jump out and bite them if they point their beloved cameras at a person.

    On reflection, apart from trees, flowers and grass, I have not seen anything living in their photographs. No pets, children ... Man! These are not professionals but enthusiasts who have the resources to get good quality gear and may even have all the very best gear delivered to them the day it is released.

    Can the psychologists we have give me some input here? Is this something that you find in "club" level photographers, where they critique each others technical abilities and that is all they are interested in, or is there something else going on?

    I don't have a single shot in my flickr stream that contains ppl either. (NOBODY, NONE, ZIP, NADA :-) ) Ppl are really hard to photograph for me, because they are mostly inpatient, frustrated looking @ the camera and telling them to stand straight and stuff like to that to help with the composition just makes them even more frustrated. Lately it's been easier because my friends and family are starting to recognize the value & quality of the shots I've taken of them and they started posing for my shots, but I'm still not quite ready to share these photos. With a normal shot, if it's bad and I realise that after a few hours of uploading I can just delete it, with ppl's shots it's different showing of ppl in a bad way cannot be undone. :D Also there is the "I look fat phenomenon".

    I feel appropriate to close my comment with a photo of a window: :DDD
    

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    sevencrossing
    

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    One possible explanation, but admittedly, probably, the wrong one, they want to sell their photographs to picture libraries and don't want to be bother with model release forms

    I do tend to avoid recognisable people in my landscapes for that reason

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    shutterdancer
    

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    That's like asking why Henri Cartier-Bresson didn't shoot macro,or why Ansel Adams didn't fill his port with model head shots.People usually point their cameras at subjects that they personally find interesting.I will point my camera at almost anything in nature,but I will rarely point it in the direction of a person.

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    msmoto
    

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    OK, to illustrate...I came up to these folks and began with "Excuse me" and then asked them if they were natives to the town. (Only 1014 people in Elkhart Lake) After a couple more questions regarding the town, a couple of folks I knew, I then pick up the camera and shot some photos. No permission asked. But, I show them the photos.. lots of comments, but in the back of the camera one cannot really see much. then talked about a building, (on PAD yesterday) and the gentleman stated they owned it. Another in the party has a shop. So, the interaction was about life, the photo captured was a recording of the interaction. And the rather silly photo:

    

    1/160th f/4.0 ISO 9000....D4, 16-35mm f/4.0

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    NSXType-R
    

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    jaysb3 said:
    The wife does not like me taking pictures of her around the house. And I'm not crazy about having my picture taken either.

    The dog is pretty cool with it. As long as I'm not using the AF illuminate light for very long.

    Agreed! My mother hates it when I take photos of her. My friends don't mind me taking photos of them either, but when I'm out with my friends, I usually don't bring my DSLR.

    Little kids are fun to take photos of, but when they're bigger they're harder to shoot as they move way faster. Sometimes I'm too lazy to chase my little cousins around for a shoot, so I just enjoy their company instead. If I do end up with photos, I just share them with the parents. Some of the times they are very happy with my results, and I'm satisfied too. I'm no professional and shoot just for my own enjoyment, so I don't share any of it on my Flickr account.

    Like another member said too- if you're taking photos of a little kid in this day and age people think you're a pedophile, not a photo enthusiast.

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    tcole1983
    

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    I don't really like to take people pictures. I have some. I "think" I can take them, but I am always wary of privacy and I don't know all the laws about how they can be used or displayed. I don't have any people pictures on my flickr page for that reason.

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    msmoto
    

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    Oh, a note about certain ethnic groups....they may have taboos against photos. Also, in large cities be cautious about any folks yelling at you about not taking a photograph even when it seems benign. They may have a reason for not wanting to be recorded... either outstanding criminal warrants, or stolen merchandise. These are people you definitely will not want to cross. They have different rules of conduct about how to handle their enemies.....

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    donaldejose
    

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    bjrichus: you have to observe different aspects of their personality before you can formulate opinions. It could be that one of them just wants to limit themselves to certain subjects. Or it could be that one of them has trouble relating to people. I have trouble relating to people and have always thought of myself as a "loner" and not a "people person." I can photograph what I observe but it is uncomfortable for me to talk to people creating a relationship with them while I photograph them. This is a personality disorder of mine. It is not disabling but it is limiting because I elect to not engage, when possible, in certain types of human interaction simply because it is uncomfortable for me and I project that onto others thinking it would be uncomfortable for them to have me take their picture. People who have a warm outgoing personality are much better at forming quick relationships with people while photographing them. Observe these people you are talking about and see if they tend to talk better one on one and tend to be more quiet in groups. See if they are warm and outgoing or tend to stay more to themselves. See if they seem comfortable starting a conversation with a stranger or tend not to initiate anything other than minimum politeness with strangers. You see a limitation in their photography. It could be a limitation they have chosen because of what they like or it could be a limitation which reflects their own inner limitations in dealing with people. You cannot tell the source of the limitation by looking at the photographs. You have to observe the person's interactions with other people.

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    bjrichus
    

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    There are some interesting comments here - thanks all - and keep 'em coming.

    I'm not going to respond directly to any one by quoting, because as has been pointed out, people are complex and I certainly have my own views.

    One point of clarification, as Ms.M. says, if we exclude those who specialize in specific non-people related subjects, what are we left with? This question was uppermost in my mind a couple of days ago.

    Lets just say that I do have a picture forming in my mind of the kind of person involved here. The two individuals I am thinking of are both 'wasp', over 60, well off enough to buy whatever gear they want and able to shoot whatever they want. I know one of them well enough to ask him "why no people?" and not get a really negative reaction. If I post another comment this afternoon, it's because my man has not whacked me with his D300... (He does NOT read NR, in fact neither of them are online very much at all).

    :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    bjrichus
    

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    bjrichus said:
    If I post another comment this afternoon, it's because my man has not whacked me with his D300... (He does NOT read NR, in fact neither of them are online very much at all).

    :-)

    Just got home after my meeting (a lunch appointment actually) and am in one piece. HAHAHA…

    Before I tell you what went on, when I was a teenager (late 1960’s), I went to a photo club once and got really discouraged by the entire experience. All these old snobs worrying about the latest changes to some obscure developer formula and measuring eighths of an inch between a still life arrangement and the front of a lens to confirm focus and telling me not to bother with 35mm as it was a waste of time and that it had all been done by some obscure little Frenchman 60 years ago. Oh yes, and there were no hot chicks there to try my luck with, so I was very turned off by it all. ;-)

    So … Today we discussed several things art and photography related. I didn’t really have to prod my man too much, as I have just picked up a few prints and we spent a few minutes looking them. I am actually preparing a redesign of a web site bringing an archive online of prints made by my uncle in the 1950’s and 60’s that a relative and I updated as a memorial after he died nearly 18 years ago and I was picking up a new set of them. We were looking at a number of these prints (mostly shots of people) and he remarked how he wished he could “shoot photographs of people like that”. As you can imagine, that sparked the conversation.

    I just wrote a lengthy analysis of our conversation but I’ve deleted it; cutting the story down to size, turns out he feels intimidated by people photography and does not feel able to show confrontation and emotion. I do think he has issues to do with (I am sure MrsMoto will comment), either a fear of others or maybe even just an over active fear of failure. I got him to agree he validates his position (not quite using those words) by going to his photo club once a month and dissecting photographs by others purely from the technical perspective and as a result, gets the approval of his other “old curmudgeon” club-mates. He actually thinks he is a bit worse than just an old curmudgeon and actually feels some guilt at his position on some things – so there is hope for all of us! I feel suddenly vindicated….

    I’m going to get back to work on my revised web site, I’ve got about 6 pages of Eulogy and a whole bunch of scans to get uploaded into a slide show.

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. 

    shutterdancer
    

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    bgrichus said,

    "Lets just say that I do have a picture forming in my mind of the kind of person involved here. The two individuals I am thinking of are both 'wasp', over 60, well off enough to buy whatever gear they want and able to shoot whatever they want."

    LOL bjrichus,I resemble that remark,being an old fart myself ;>).I figure why spend all of that money on equipment just to shoot something that we see every day.Almost all of us are only a few minutes away from a spot that we can go to....close our eyes....spin around a few times...press the shutter button and capture a snap of a person.The thrill of photography for me is chasing down that beautiful dragon fly that I have never photographed before,or an animal or bird that may soon be endangered.That doesn’t mean that my way is the best way...or the only way...that just means that I shoot what I like to shoot!

    Photography would become boring quickly if there were a set of rules that dictated what you could or couldn’t include in your photographs ;>)

    Posted 1 year ago #
23. 

    donaldejose
    

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    As I suspected, his photography reveals a limitation in his comfort level in relating with other people. It is hard for him to engage emotionally with others; hence the feelings of intimidation. He can relate best to other people when talking technical details and not emotional subjects.

    Posted 1 year ago #
24. 

    shutterdancer
    

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    Interesting Dr. donaldeøjose....that explains why your secretary told me that you were off shooting people portraits when I arrived for our last session ;)

    Posted 1 year ago #
25. 

    bjrichus
    

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    shutterdancer said:
    LOL bjrichus, [...] being an old fart myself ...

    You have no idea how long I wrestled over NOT putting that phrase in my post instead of the one I used! :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #

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