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HDR Photography - is it Passé?

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Eric

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@Mark_Wilkins - Excellent observation! I have never been able to properly express what's wrong with an overdone HDR, but you are right. When the sense of location of the illumination begins to fade, then the image begins to suffer. That is a great tip to remember. On the more technical side I also agree, and I think that the more appropriate term for an in-camera system that produces an 8 bit jpeg from multiple exposures is "Tone mapping". The resultant jpeg image is a representation of the HDR data obtained from multiple exposures, but in and of itself there is not enough data to further adjust the image without banding etc.

I think that the available HDR software can be used to combine multiple exposures to add data to hi-lights and shadows, but in the process the black and white point need to be shifted for display, potentially resulting in an overall shift in exposure.

@rbid - I think that only the D7000 and D5100 allow 2ev bracketing, that's a really nice thing about the D7000. Since I am limited to 1 ev exposure intervals, I have to take 40% more frames to accomplish the same thing. Usually since I have the images, I shove them all off to the HDR program.

Posted 11 months ago #
Pierre

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Funny how this thread swings back and forth between 'HDR bad bad' to 'cool I want it'.

Somehow the discussions have revived my appetite fot it....

Posted 11 months ago #
rbid

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Eric said:
@rbid - I think that only the D7000 and D5100 allow 2ev bracketing, that's a really nice thing about the D7000. Since I am limited to 1 ev exposure intervals, I have to take 40% more frames to accomplish the same thing. Usually since I have the images, I shove them all off to the HDR program.

I don't understand why Nikon does not allow Bracketing in the same way other Nikon Competitors do, allow more than 3 shots (e.g. 5 shots), and also the step to be larger, it is a matter of SW only and there is no need for HW.

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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If it means anything, I am preparing a shot for a competition entry. Got to get the thing done this weekend and it has some very mild HDR treatment to bring up the punch of the image (it was shot in very low light), and we'll see if it does anything - except bomb, as we all know how rigged, opinionated, pointless competitions are etc ...

Posted 11 months ago #
spraynpray

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Why not post it here or on the PAD?

Posted 11 months ago #
msmoto

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bjrichus said:
... we'll see if it does anything - except bomb, as we all know how rigged, opinionated, pointless competitions are etc ...

Yup, this is what I say every time I enter a contest...ha, ha, ha... I hope you win FIRST PLACE!

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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msmoto said:
Yup, this is what I say every time I enter a contest...ha, ha, ha... I hope you win FIRST PLACE!

Thanks girl! We'll see ... but I appreciate your hopes.

@spraynpray, I will upload it once I get the chance as I am working today, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday ... Who says Higher Education shuts down in the summer? Pah!

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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Alright... After a bit of messing about, I got the thing uploaded and here is a low resolution much cropped version of it;

Posted 11 months ago #
rbid

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@bjrichus: Excellent one, it is still natural without the over-processed look of an HDR.

@Pierre: Remember, HDR is just a tool, It is good to know its capabilities and limitations.. but don't make it a must for every photo :)

I also posted few minutes ago an PHDR photo in my 500px page. (http://500px.com/photo/8610484, Hope the link will not be removed, if yes, search for "Ricky Marek" or "Katedrála svatého Víta PHDR (3x3x3)" in 500px dot com)

The HDR is composed by three panorama photos (built from 9 photos, 3x3), each panorama taken at a different exposure. (-2EV, 0EV and +2EV), and the results were not bad, although if I had a tripod it could help a lot.

Enjoy.

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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rbid said:
@bjrichus: Excellent one, it is still natural without the over-processed look of an HDR.

Thank you. I was trying to add some extra punch to it as it was taken the morning after a tropical storm had blown through the previous day and the light was very, VERY diffuse and low, which is unusual for the Florida Panhandle, even in winter. I was walking along the beach and there he was. So much for setting up the shot in advance and ones "vision" kicking in before you leave for the shoot. This was just by chance. The lens was an 18mm on DX, probably fairly wide open too.

The fisherman and I spent some time talking about his luck - not too good that morning - and about the location. One of the things I like about photography is that you meet some really odd and unusual people. He was a retired fireman visiting with his family. Had a good old talk while waiting for the next fish to bite (they never did).

rbid said:
@Pierre: Remember, HDR is just a tool, It is good to know its capabilities and limitations.. but don't make it a must for every photo :)

100% agree. It works well to extend the dynamic range (as intended on my shot) and can introduce some unearthly effects. Just look at how some use [or perhaps over use] it, which is the point of this thread.

Is it passe? Just don't suggest that to Trey Ratcliff, who has made a nice little career out of it these last few years! All I can say is "Good for him" and I wish it was me as he is (or stumbled into being) a better business man than I am and he sure knows how to target his desired market extremely well. :)

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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rbid said:
I also posted few minutes ago an PHDR photo in my 500px page.

I've never been there. Is it in a main square in the city? It looks like lots of people visiting.

Posted 11 months ago #
rbid

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bjrichus said:
I've never been there. Is it in a main square in the city? It looks like lots of people visiting.

It is in the Prague Castle, up in the hill, (Open Google Earth and go to: 50°05'26.48" N 14°23'59.00" E)
All Praha is very visited during May-June, very nice city, heaven for city photography.
(There are other photos as well from the city in my page in 500px)

Posted 11 months ago #
Eric

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@rbid
"I don't understand why Nikon does not allow Bracketing in the same way other Nikon Competitors do, allow more than 3 shots (e.g. 5 shots), and also the step to be larger, it is a matter of SW only and there is no need for HW."

Actually, the D3 series allows up to 9 frames at up to 1 stop between them and I am assuming the the D700 does as well, (but I don't know for sure). I just received a D4, and in preparation for answering you here, I checked to see how the bracketing was set up and was blown away! The D4 will take:
+2, -2, +3, -3, 3, 5, 7 or 9 Frames at up to 1 stop spacing between them (just like the D3). Whats new (and I was unaware of) is that it will also take:+2, -2, +3, -3, 3, or 5 frames at either 2 or 3 stops between them. I just tried it, and it works. That means you can take 5 shots with 15 stops of bracketing. What is interesting is that the Nikon web site says: "2 to 9 frames in steps of 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 or 1 EV" and makes no mention of the 2 or 3 EV steps. This is not mentioned in the manual either.

Posted 11 months ago #
TriShooter

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I agree with the comments that suggest raw files, better editing software, and better sensors make HDR less necessary for most scenes. We can now get an HDR effect using excessive settings in software like Nik's Color Efex 4 Pro using a high or excessive detail setting.

This morning I posted an album as an example of what HDR can do on Nikonians with 11 input slides taken at .666 F Stop increments to demonstrate my point with 2 output files on edited and the other unedited. HDR remains an amazing process because it not only sees more than the eye can see, it also reduces noise that might otherwise be seen. In camera processing of HDR is fine sometimes but not situations like this scene. I intentionally put the D300 on the floor to make the lighting more difficult for the the camera. You can see the 11 input slide example I took with the D300 at 1600 ISO on a Christmas Eve testing NKRemote here:

http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/22347

The beauty of NKRemote is that it can bracket 35 images if you think you need it. It is also a creative tool in the hands of innovative people that enjoy using it this way.

Posted 11 months ago #
msmoto

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@TriShooter...

The final product image with its full range of tones from shadow to highlight is impressive. Having done this type of shot, and on PAD a B & W of the hotel lobby is one example, I understand the struggle with the wide range.

Here is mine doing it without HDR (image about half way down the page)
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=5477&page=13

Posted 11 months ago #
bjrichus

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Here's a thing... The eye sees everything and the brain interprets everything so that we make sense of what the eye is seeing. Not every frequency of light is seen by the eye at the same level of intensity.

HDR levels out some of the differences in perception of intensity, so what we see on the HDR image is something with a degree of changed intensity where we don't normally expect to see those changes of intensity, so we think the image looks like it has more or a fuller range of tones ... what is going on is that what we see and perceive as a result of the brain "in the way" so-to-speak is what we call "real life" and it doesn't have as broad a range of more equal levels of tone/color as an HDR shot.

So our photographers brains go "I never saw that bright blue chrome bumper before! It's weird."

The visually "unwashed" think "Amazing. I must have a print of that for my wall."

If we are savvy, we'll have a clutch of matted prints ready and waiting, all at premium rates as they are "Spectacular images" (deliberate use of the term there)....

Posted 11 months ago #
Pierre

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One of my preferred

Posted 11 months ago #
Eric

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Nice shot Pierre!

Posted 11 months ago #
spraynpray

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I like that too Pierre. Nice use of HDR.

Posted 11 months ago #
TriShooter

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msmoto, nice! Locating the specific settings to get most, or even all of the gray scale is an art. But sometimes we cannot, or do no have enough time, which is definitely the time and the place for bracketing and HDR.

Dynamic range - D4 & D800. I have never seen a camera with enough dynamic range to replace flash painting, and/or HDR.

Do not forget Flash Painting, which is very easy now, especially using remote flashes to mimic enhancing dynamic range in a specific area of a picture, without doing it across the entire scene. Try it sometime; it is FUN!

Posted 11 months ago #
Gitzo

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Having just arrived on this website yesterday, I will attempt to keep this short; I rather agree with Pierre; I think it's a case of the old adage that "beauty is in the eye off the beholder". Obviously, we all see things with different eyes; even though mine are getting pretty old, they are still functioning many times as well as my ears are. I can't really express to others what pleases my eyes, but I know it when I see it.

I have seen quite a lot of HDR that I really liked, and I have seen just as much that I didn't care to take a second look at; I have been looking at other people's photography for a very long time now, and I'm constantly finding myself wondering, why on earth did he (or she) elect to photograph THAT ? I'm sure that photographer would most likely think the same if he (or she) were to look at some of mine. At the same time, I see a lot of work by some of the great wildlife photographers, and I find myself hoping to do half as well.

I am personally very much "into" vivid colors; I spend a lot more time on my computer creating what I like to refer to as "gradient art" than I usually do taking pictures. Sometimes I combine the two, usually using the gradients as a frame for the photography.

When I finally put a few things on an "art" web site, I discovered that I must be the only "gradient artist" out of all the thousands on the site ! Overall, the average age of members on the site is quite young, and I'm anything but young, so I'm sure that explains why my "art" hasn't been in "great demand" there. For years I never showed it to anyone; a few years back, when I showed a few samples to someone at the Cultural Center in Chicago, they insisted that I should "do a show"! If you knew me, you would realize why I think that's so humorous ! A few things that I do please me a lot, while other things I grow weary of quickly. In the end, it really doesn't make any difference what others think; when I create something for my own enjoyment, and I end up deriving enjoyment from doing it, it was well worth doing; if others enjoy it also, I suppose that's even better.

I had hoped to try my hand at HDR sometime, but so far, I haven't gotten around to it.

Posted 10 months ago #
Eric

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@Gitzo - Why not post some of your work on PAD (Photo a Day on this forum)? I'd like to see it.

I find that I like what HDR can do. It's easy to take too far, but I like the additional dimension of enhanced reality that can be extracted using HDR techniques.

Posted 10 months ago #
bjrichus

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bjrichus said:
Alright... After a bit of messing about, I got the thing uploaded [...]

It's finally on the wall in the Gallery (framed 11"x14" print from an Epson printer) this and next week along with another much more serious bit of HDR imagery from me too. Jury will be "in" on Monday when the Gallery is closed.

If (and do mean *IF*) I win anything, I'll post links etc to the contest and stuff, after all, successful artists only show off good work..... Who wants to see the failures?

There is a "peoples choice" category where visitors to the place can vote by completing a form and dropping it in a basket by the door. The lady who runs the place said today that I had already got a number of votes for it, but won't tell me what the count is until after judging.

Will I make it to Tuesday morning? LOL...

Posted 9 months ago #
spraynpray

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bjrichus said:
It's finally on the wall in the Gallery (framed 11"x14" print from an Epson printer) this and next week along with another much more serious bit of HDR imagery from me too. Jury will be "in" on Monday when the Gallery is closed.

If (and do mean *IF*) I win anything, I'll post links etc to the contest and stuff, after all, successful artists only show off good work..... Who wants to see the failures?

There is a "peoples choice" category where visitors to the place can vote by completing a form and dropping it in a basket by the door. The lady who runs the place said today that I had already got a number of votes for it, but won't tell me what the count is until after judging.

Will I make it to Tuesday morning? LOL...

Hey congrats so far!

C'mon - give us the link - it would be good to see yours and the other images. You know us, we're like family right? Well, in NR's case, we are better behaved than my family!

Posted 9 months ago #
bjrichus

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spraynpray said:
Hey congrats so far!

C'mon - give us the link - it would be good to see yours and the other images. You know us, we're like family right? Well, in NR's case, we are better behaved than my family!

Thanks for the congrats. I don't usually do the framing and stuff myself these days as most of the time the images I sell get used in documents or on the web & when they do exist in a physical format, they are printed and framed by a commercial service so *I* don't usually do the "dirty work", but this time, it's all me!! LOL!

Family? FAMILY? You've got to be kidding me! My own family knows squat about what makes either a good picture and/or one that sells. In particular, my wife (bless her heart), will always (and I do mean 100% of the time) pick the crud and non-sellers, which makes her opinion really valuable to me so I can pick the shots I do need to work with... ;-)

Posted 9 months ago #