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Nikon Rumors Forum » Nikon DSLR » [D4]

Nikon D4 Orders at Adorama

(164 posts) (46 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by gan106
  • Latest reply from Rx4Photo
  • Related Topics:
    1. D800 orders from Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc...
    2. Nikon D4/D800 issues
    3. D800 Discussion Thread
    4. possible d4 and d700 replacements shown on nikon UK website
    5. XQD card opinions

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  1. TaoTeJared

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    I just got around reading this as I'm now leaning towards a D4 after the last couple of shoots. Rather interesting thread.

    Posting people's work or personal information on public forums is inappropriate. Kudos to the admins removing it.

    I appreciate the Ms. Oster responding, even if the policy makes little practical or business sense.

    My guess many customer reps from all the big outlets are voicing their opinions in-house as well wishing they could let customers know where they stand.

    HelenOster said:
    There are issues which we are simply not able to release into the public domain; if we were able to know with 100% certainty that information given to any single customer about his or her place in line would not be shared in any public space we likely would be able to share far more with individual customers.

    Getting all the info into an automated e-mail is not as easy as it always seems. Honestly this sounds more like their computer systems can't accommodate letting customers know where they stand in line and someone higher up is tired of hearing people complain, so they have created some bogus official sounding line why they can't. I have seen this for years - hell, even had to do it myself at times. It is not fun for anyone.

    As someone who worked around multiple systems and trying to get them connected, it is not easy to do so for necessary information, very difficult for high priority info, and damn near impossible for stored info that is rarely utilized. I had daily fights and battles with IT developers that would go on for years just to get one thing added. And then it only happened when an enormous customer required it - then it would happen in less then a week. Unfortunately we are all too small as individuals to induce change.

    I respect Ms. Oster, as she has posted what she has been told. That is her job and we should respect that even if we all know a Dr. Seuss book makes more sense then the trumped up policy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. HelenOster

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    @TaoTeJared

    Actually, it DOES make perfect business sense when there are vendor confidentiality agreements in place!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. gan106

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    Bad news about the XQD card and reader no longer shipping with the D4. Especially as no one seems to have the cards and readers in stock to ship (which is a theoretical problem as my D4 ordered from Adorama on the first day they took pre-orders has not shipped yet).

    A reminder of the original purpose of this thread: Please post something if you receive your D4 from Adorama and let us know when you ordered (date and time if possible) so the rest of us can try and gauge when we might be receiving ours. I haven't seen a new posting on a shipping notice for at least a week now so it seems they are moving very slowly. We are still only seeing orders filled for pre-orders on the morning of the first day (Jan 6th).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. TaoTeJared

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    HelenOster said:
    @TaoTeJared

    Actually, it DOES make perfect business sense when there are vendor confidentiality agreements in place!

    So are you saying that Nikon is the owner of the wait list will all the names and positions?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. henryp

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    TaoTeJared said:I respect Ms. Oster, as she has posted what she has been told. That is her job and we should respect that even if we all know a Dr. Seuss book makes more sense then the trumped up policy.

    Helen doesn't need me to defend her, but there's nothing "trumped up" about the policy.

    We don't divulge queue placement information for a couple of reasons. First if we do so sooner or later a competitor could use that plus the date of your order to know more about our business than is prudent for us to reveal. Macy's doesn't tell Gimbels and with good reason. With as few as half a dozen order dates/times and queue positions it'd be simple to extrapolate a retailer's entire order history plus a host of other information no retailer would knowingly share with competitors.

    Second, the queue churns all the time, Whenever someone who has ordered from every retailer gets a camera and cancels all the other orders, the queue shifts.

    Finally, let's say we told you you were # 107, hypothetically. What's that mean to you? Nothing. If we get 99 in our next shipment or 19, you're not there. If our next delivery comprises 108, you are. We won't know how many our next shipment will be (nor when) until it gets here. And, when it does, we won't say how many we got anyway.

    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. donaldejose

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    Henry,

    Thank you for participating in the discussion.

    No one disagrees with your reasons.

    Yes, competitors could start to tell people the Adorama waiting list is over 4,000 last they heard (just an example) so if you place an order with Adorama there will be 4,000 people in line ahead of you and therefore you should place an order with us since we only have 300 people (just an example) in line ahead of you. We all agree it is to Adorama's advantage for your competitors not to know this about your business and use it against you or to use order date, wait list number and delivery date to extrapolate approximately how many D800s Nikon delivered to you last month. But all that is solely for Adorama's benefit, none of it is for the benefit of the customer.

    Yes, the wait list will always change every time you fill an order. No one has ever thought otherwise. Being in a queue that doesn't constantly get shorter would be pointless, wouldn't? It is not "meaningless" to see the queue change, it is a positive thing to know.

    Yes, knowing you are #107 doesn't tell you that you will get your camera next week or next month. But being told you are #5,107 from the last order that was filled does tell you some useful information a customer can act upon by starting the search for that camera elsewhere.

    Henry, the only valid point you make which is not just an excuse for putting Adorama's self-interest ahead of that of its customers is the inference that Nikon has an agreement with Adorama not to disclose exactly how many D800s Nikon has shipped to Adorama this month. Is that what you mean by a "non-disclosure" agreement? I can see how Nikon may want all of its vendors to not stir up trouble by letting any other vendor know how many of a scarce item Nikon sent them this last month. But no one has been asking for those numbers. A customer's place in the D800 line is not the number of D800 camera's Nikon sent you last month. I find it hard to believe Nikon prohibits you from telling people how many other people are ahead of them in the wait line. It still seems to me you are just placing Adorama's self-interest in keeping people from looking elsewhere before you make the sale to them ahead of your customer's interest in knowing if they are #7 or #107, or #507 or #1,107 or number #5,107 in line from the last order you just filled.

    I understand it would be a pain to send e-mails to all each week informing them of their constantly changing position in the queue. No one has asked you to do that either. But that information is easily available on a computer somewhere in your offices and for those who call in or e-mail you it could easily be looked up and told to them. It seems the only burden this would place on you is if you had something like 5,000 people in the queue and if even 10% called to check you would become overburdened by 500 phone calls. But then, if that is the situation don't customers have a right to know that?

    No one here expects to get their camera any faster if they complain.
    No one here expects you to ship what you do not have.
    But, for those few people for whom a month, two month, three month, four month or six month wait may cause a hardship, it is reasonable for them to want to know how many people are ahead of them in the line so they can decide whether to keep waiting or to see if they can find one on the shelf elsewhere, such as the few people who have happened to find them at Best Buy.

    I am sure some here are satisfied by the reasons you have stated for your policy.
    But some here also see Adorama placing its self-interest ahead of your customer's best interests as the main reason for your policy and you are being confronted with it.

    That is all. No mean-spirited harm intended. You are entitled to place your own self-interest ahead of the customers if that is how you want to run your business and if someone is #5,107 on the wait list when he or she foolishly thinks they are #7 well, that is just too bad sucker!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. henryp

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    donaldejose said:Henry, the only valid point you make which is not just an excuse for putting Adorama's self-interest ahead of that of its customers is the inference that Nikon has an agreement with Adorama not to disclose exactly how many D800s Nikon has shipped to Adorama this month. Is that what you mean by a "non-disclosure" agreement?

    I don't recall mentioning "a "non-disclosure" agreement" in my post, nor do I recall saying or suggesting anything at all about an agreement between Nikon USA and a retailer.

    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. donaldejose

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    Henry, you are 100% correct.

    What I was referring to as a "non-disclosure agreement" came from the "vendor confidentiality agreements" phrase in Helen's post, not yours, as follows:

    "Actually, it DOES make perfect business sense when there are vendor confidentiality agreements in place!"

    I was interpreting Helen's "confidentiality agreement" phrase to mean Adorama has an agreement with Nikon not to disclose certain information relative to the number of cameras Nikon ships to you. Perhaps I am wrong but I don't know what other data you must hold confidential which would relate to wait lists.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Geoff_K

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    I am not certain how big a difference your position in a Q makes. If I REALLY wanted one I would order from 2 or 3 places and cancel when 1 delivered. Sure, some will bitch and moan about it however when I cancel at shop B and C people move up on the list so no loss to them by me briefly standing in line only to jump out. Companies hate people that do this however I am not here to make companies happy. ;->

    On a side note .. I have never ordered anything from more than 1 business. If I really wanted to have a D800 or D4 NOW, I probably would though. I am just not in that big of a hurry and can wait until late summer to see if they release a DX with the specs I want.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. msmoto

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    Gosh, how interesting this is getting. I am going to stick out my neck, something I do often, and suggest a lot of the discussion of business practices is not really related to the idea of cameras at all. I know as I wait for NIKON to announce the D400, which I predicted would be announced today, I am kinda getting irritated. The D300s is long over due a remake. I am willing to purchase a new DX body. So where is my camera? Am I going to get on the waiting list at B & H? How long do I had to wait?

    Well, to all these questions I have answers in the form of expectations. And it is my unmet expectations which result in my anger and hostility toward the dealers and NIKON, the very folks we are asking to produce what we want so badly. But, it does give us something to talk about while we spend the time waiting. Hope everyone has a good day.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. donaldejose

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    Yes msmoto we cannot really blame Nikon no matter how irritated we get at the delay. They will produce what they can when they can because they want to make money selling the camera to you which you have been waiting for before you get so frustrated you buy something else. Nikon has no self interest in delay.

    Adorama on the other hand does have a self interest in not telling people their place in line: to keep them in a long, long line as long as possible so Adorama makes the profit on the camera they buy rather than B&H, or your local store or Best Buy or Onecall.

    Notice to all who have been waiting for a D4 from Adorama: get out of this queue of undetermined length and give Onecall a call!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. TaoTeJared

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    Now we have BH and Adorama!

    donaldejose I'm with your explanations on this one.

    Everyone knows the lists move and shake more continuous than a cat with it's tail on fire. Camera Outlets know this better than anyone. For all the reasons stated why it is not practical to tell customers this info, they do know there is no competitive advantage for Joe Blow knowing he was at #2,501 one week and #1,500 the next - because of all the reasons they described.

    What maybe they don't realize, is that other companies do tell people this info. It is just that we know BH and Adorama get the "goods" before and at a more regular pace than others. (No issue with that at all - just larger than others and that is the bennifit of being so.)

    For me, if I put an order in and I'm #500 on the list, ok - if I'm #6,000 that changes things. Even if the list changes, I don't see getting it in 60 days.

    adamz: "...Nikon manufactures currently around 20000-30000 d800 per month and around 5000 d4 monthly. Around 1/3 of this numbers go to US market..."

    If Adamz #s are "close enough" (which sounds in the same ballpark as what I heard of the D3/s/700,) #500 on a list could mean a 1-2 month wait, #6,000 could mean 3-4,5,6? Besides just keeping $6,000 free for the "just wait and see" is not practical for most. Some like me, have to act in some direction within the next 60 days for sure - and I don't stretch my revolving credit unless I know what is coming and when. I can swing for maybe 1 month if I was lower on the list. I can't wait for what I have coming up in 2 months.

    I have always had great experiences with BH and Adorama, but in this particular instance, it is disappointing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. donaldejose

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    Tao: You are correct. That is what I have been saying. The "answers" and "reasons" give so far for being unable (truthfully really just unwilling) to tell customers if there are tens, hundreds or thousands ahead of them in line just don't hold water. It is really a matter of self interest. Self interest is not illegal or immoral, just a bit disappointing they care so little about their customers. And advertising tag lines such as "the customer is No. 1" etc. would be false advertising. A few of us are calling them on the carpet for this and calling their bluff about the excuses they have been giving. They have a right to do what they are doing and we have a right to say what we are saying about what they are doing.

    As to my prior experience with Adorama and B&H I can honestly say B&H has responded to orders faster and shipped to me much faster to such an extent that I felt obligated to return their great attention to my orders by ordering from them first and ordering second from Adorama only if B&H was out of stock. Good customer service does breed loyalty in response.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. clyde

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    gan106 said:
    Bad news about the XQD card and reader no longer shipping with the D4. Especially as no one seems to have the cards and readers in stock to ship (which is a theoretical problem as my D4 ordered from Adorama on the first day they took pre-orders has not shipped yet).

    A reminder of the original purpose of this thread: Please post something if you receive your D4 from Adorama and let us know when you ordered (date and time if possible) so the rest of us can try and gauge when we might be receiving ours. I haven't seen a new posting on a shipping notice for at least a week now so it seems they are moving very slowly. We are still only seeing orders filled for pre-orders on the morning of the first day (Jan 6th).

    I ordered a little before noon on Jan 6 and it shipped today. Curious about whether it has the card and reader.

    On the other stuff in this thread, I was growing as frustrated as anyone and I emailed Helen a week or so ago. She didn't give me anything useful and I didn't really expect it. She just took the time to read my mini rant and respond kindly and professionally. I have no doubt she did what she could and I have no complaints about that.

    I have plenty of complaints about Adorama and Nikon USA. As much as I'd like to say that I'm never going to buy from them again, I won't rule it out, but I can't tell you where they are on my list of retailers I'm where I'm willing to spend money. I'd like to tell you, but I can't. I'd rather not buy anything from Nikon again, either, but I have even less choice there.

    Some years back when the D200 was new and no one had them, B&H wasn't taking pre-orders (or weren't taking any more). When they got some in, you could order from the website. When they didn't have any, you couldn't do anything. I wonder if that's the better way. Probably not, but it has advantages.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Kalog

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    is the Adorama delivery stopped? the fulfillment of preorders is still not moving from 06 January (the last post here). oh my bad. the fulfillment cannot go through February 2012 before the olympics...(i thought d4 camera is specialized for such purpose)..

    Ms. Helen, sorry my friend told me not to disclose the delivery information until he actually receive the camera on hand. ...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. donaldejose

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    Let me suggest an interesting option:

    The next time there will be this problem will be with the D600, D400 and maybe the D7200.

    Would it be better for a retailer to set an announced limited number of preorders (like 1,000), close the preorder process when that number is reached and then when deliveries drop the list to half (500 left undelivered on the list) open up orders again until the list reaches 1,000 and then close the order process again. That way the list doesn't get too long. As soon as the first 500 orders are filled a new 500 orders are taken to replace them.

    Of course, once a certain store reaches 1,000 and stops taking orders customers will just place their order elsewhere so a store doing this will lose sales overall. If all the big stores set the same preorder limit number the orders would be evenly distributed. This makes sense to me but stores probably won't work together in the interest of the customer.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Rx4Photo

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    Kalog said:
    is the Adorama delivery stopped? the fulfillment of preorders is still not moving from 06 January (the last post here).

    ...you're assuming that everyone who orders a camera from Adorama is posting about it on this forum?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. HelenOster

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    I find that I’m repeating myself because it is clear that I am not being heard!
    The policy of not advising customers where they are in line has nothing at all to do with any anxiety that customers on the Adorama pre-order list might go looking elsewhere if they felt they were too far down the list.
    It also has nothing to do with maximising profit; the relationship with manufacturers and distributors is complex and is about more than simply accessibility to products. There are issues which are confidential between retailer and manufacturer / distributor, over which we have little control.
    Adorama’s terms and conditions of supply are NOT going to be the same as those between Nikon and a ‘Mom and Pop’ retailer or between Nikon and, for example Best Buy or Amazon - and I don’t know, but I strongly suspect they will not be the same as those between Nikon and B&H.
    We are holding nobody 'hostage'; we've not charged anyone for their units, so any customer who dislikes our policies is free to choose to cancel their order. Personally, I'd rather see people get their gear soonest and if I was in the same position for sure I'd be looking elsewhere - while keeping all my options open.
    There are issues which we are simply not able to release into the public domain; as I stated previously, if we could be 100% certain that if we advised every customer on our b/order list of their position in line that they wouldn't post this info on an online forum such as this, but keep it to themselves, I believe it would be a completely different story. But we can't.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. donaldejose

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    Helen: Thanks for participating. We do hear you. Some of us just don't believe you, that's all. But I guess you cannot explain further or offer specific documented support for your statements about how "there are issues which we are simply not able to release into the public domain" related to our discussion since you are bound by a confidentiality agreement with Nikon. We don't want you to violate any confidentiality agreement you have with Nikon so the discussion cannot progress from the point it is at now. That is ok. In a few months supply will catch up with demand and this issue will disappear. Then the D600 will be out and it will reappear! Then the D400 will be out and it will reappear again! You have my sympathy Helen.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. codyjbennett

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    Wow, what a discussion. Personally I'm thrilled to see both Adorama & B&H wading into the forum. Their presence speaks volumes about both companies customer service efforts. Yes they have limitations on what can be shared, but good on both for being active and involved.

    --

    I hope I'm not stepping on any toes by posting this (Adorama, or B&H are welcome to request removal), but this has been my experience thus far:

    1) Decided to order the D4 on the afternoon of 5/11/12 (late last friday)
    2) Tried to order from B&H (generally better shipping options to Alaska), but they were on an ordering freeze through the following day.
    3) Ordered the D4 from Adorama 5/11.
    4) Last night (5/15) got a bit antsy after not seeing any followup email beyond the original "order placed, you'll be notified in due time", so started googling wait times - found this thread.
    5) Sent an email to Adorama asking politely for a rough estimation, even if it was anecdotal with a big disclaimer.
    6) Realized that Amazon would ship to AK for free (saves me ~$100). I decided to cancel the Adorama order and submit order to Amazon (especially spurred by an earlier comment of quick fulfillment from Amazon)
    7) I awoke this morning to find an email from Adorama that might have kept me in their order queue, had I seen it first:

    "Thank you for your inquiry on the status of your backorder. According to the manufacturer estimates we expect to fulfill your order for the following item(s):

    SKU: INKD4 by ETA: 5/20/12

    Please note that these are estimated dates given to us by the manufacturer. They are generally accurate, but are subject to change at the discretion of manufacturer."

    --

    So, in summary, it seems that recent Adorama D4 orders ship fairly soon (5/11 -> 5/20). I'm still the better for switching retailers for the $100 savings, though I might be buried in a whole different queue now.

    :)

    Good luck to all.

    -Cody

    PS - I chuckle to myself at how wrapped up I can get about a camera... #firstworldproblems comes to mind! :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. donaldejose

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    I agree + points to Adorama for logging on and making an effort to explain their policy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. gan106

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    Thanks, Cody. From your lips to God's ears! I ordered my D4 from Adorama on January 6th (the first day pre-orders were being accepted) and have NEVER received anything from them about an ETA. The original purpose of this thread was to document when D4 orders from Adorama are received so that those of us who ordered from them can gauge when we might receive our cameras. I accept that not everyone who ordered a D4 from Adorama will post this information on this thread but to all who do, a big thank you. The last posting on here of a D4 shipped and received from Adorama was about one week ago and his order time was mid morning of January 6th. if anyone (non NPS) has received a D4 from Adorama that they ordered after January 6th, we would all love to hear about it!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. codyjbennett

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    I should also clarify (with thanks to Dean for the email prompting):

    ** while I have enough gear to start my own store, I am NOT an NPS member (it's on my to-do list though!) **

    After my switcheroos and the followup info from Adorama, I realize that Adorama may be able to fulfill my order a bit faster, but with the shipping savings to Alaska by using my Prime membership, I'll stick with Amazon see how long it takes me to receive my camera.

    Also, for the general good, I'll try to remember (in my excitement) to post here when my D4 does ship from Amazon just so folks have an idea.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. henryp

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    2) Tried to order from B&H (generally better shipping options to Alaska), but they were on an ordering freeze through the following day.

    FWIW while our site is 24/7/365 online order submission is disabled from Friday evening through sundown Saturday every week out of respect for the Jewish Sabbath when no commerce is permitted.

    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. donaldejose

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    Yes Henry, B&H is "out of commission" many times on Saturday when I log on to order something BUT is has never been a problem for me.

    I just order on Sunday and my package is usually here (Philadelphia area) on Monday afternoon! It couldn't have arrived any earlier if I had ordered it on Saturday.

    Really great service from the men and women at B&H.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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