Sorry, design flaws is a bad term. Maybe design shortcomings? I think you all know what I meant.
Whoever said the "D800 won't make you a better photographer" is wrong
(71 posts) (34 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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proudgeek said:
I wouldn't say the D800's sensor will be "degraded" by certain lenses. My understanding is that it's so precise that it will expose design flaws of certain lenses.Point well taken. I should have said "effectively" degraded as an inferior lens on a superior sensor will produce less than sterling products. You are technically correct.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes, I know and agree, @proudgeek. Whether its design flaw or design limitation, either way there is truth to it, the D800 raises performance requirements.
Which is exactly the point. Now apply it to other aspects of the system. It certainly exposed flaws in my techniques -- from the most basic critical focus, to the more abstract problem-solution assessment for given scenarios involving complex lighting, subject, and output options. What happened as a result? I had to improve fundamentally, and judgmentally. Better decisions and better methods were needed to capitalize on the baseline potential afforded by the D800. AND I learned to take advantage of features new to me.
This, I believe, is what we mean by becoming a better photographer, catalyzed by the introduction of a new tool. And what a tool it is. No going back.
On Glass, by the way, I have a 180mm Macro 3.5 from Tamron that is a very good match for the D800. Sharp and on FX very nice depth of field and bokeh potential. Makes me want to look at the Nikkor 105 or 135 DC lenses.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You make a great distinction that differentiates your point of view from the title of the thread. You didn't become better by simply taking the D800 out of the box and pressing the shutter button, you were required to up your game by the technology, which was exposing some of your own technical flows (not I've seen any of your photography or am qualified to make that judgement).
Would it make me better? Do I have the chops to raise my game? I'm willing the bet the $3,000 to find out.Posted 1 year ago # -
msmoto said:
@redirector.... not "better" but maybe "smarter" photographer. Good decision the D800. And thanks, I am looking for a replacement for my D90. Still the D90 is an excellent camera, but it is several years old and the technology is pretty ancient compared with the D800. But, the end result of the 36MP vs 12MP is obvious I am certain. ThanksIf the photographer can choose the right camera for him/her, they are smarter!! :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I keep reading this thread and maybe it's the provoking title that does't match the conversation - much.
First everyone's comments on improving one's technique I couldn't agree more. When one realizes the need to improve on various elements and the results, opens one eyes for sure.
Can only a D800 create that situation? No.
I'll shoot a few rolls of film to remind me of everything Redirector spoke of and you will find many, many articles everywhere focusing on good technique. It took a D800 for some to remind or learn these aspects, but the D800 hardly is the only catalyst out there.
Now as the Title of this thread is suggesting "Can the newest gear make you better" - I say yes to that as well.
That is a yes with a major exception - If you can't make great photos with what you have now, new gear won't help and one would be better off spending money towards books, classes, software training, etc.
If you can make great photos (technique, composition, timing, understand lighting, color, etc.) then new gear can make your end result more consistent and at a higher frequency then you could with older gear. For some that maybe the D800, the 85mm 1.4, a 70-200mm or even a m4/3rds camera that is less conspicuous for candid street shooting.
The difference comes from one knowing "what they need" to make better photos vs. the "this is newer so it will make me better" though process less experienced shooters chase after. Unfortunately fewer "gear chasers" utilize the new shiny toy as a catalyst for their photography.
Redirector - my hat's off to you for seizing the opportunity.
I appreciate Donaldjose's link to Nikon (http://nps.nikonimaging.com/members/jim_brandenburg/index.htm)
If you have not watched it, you certainly should. Mr. Brandenburg was able to capture what the D800 was/is for his work and what it is probably best used for. I know it has made me take a step back away and re-evaluate what system I would like to upgrade to.Posted 1 year ago # -
I still don't have my "preordered" D800 from Adorama. Just keep getting e-mails that it remains on back-order. I think I am stuck in that long line of 5,000 preorders someone on line was talking about. But I am too busy with other things now to even have time to use it if it arrived so I will wait a few more months until my schedule opens up and then go search for one if Adorama has not delivered mine by then.
I don't know if it will make any difference to my photography. 30 years ago I did a lot of Kodachrome 25 nature photography. But then children came along, nature trips were replaced with taking the kids to things. Landscape photography was replaced with photos of kids growing up so they could have a record of their childhood. Perhaps the D800 will introduce me to something I never did but always wanted to do: medium format nature work.
Mostly now, I get called upon to photograph sports or events memorable to high school grandchildren. My D7000 is more than adequate for that. I just went to photograph a prom couple at the girl's house and expected to shoot two people indoors so I was going to take a wide to normal zoom and bounce flash off the ceiling. But at the last minute I took my 18-200 zoom instead "just in case something unexpected happened." It turned out the interior had no good background so I photographed the couple on the front lawn with fill flash, using a small tree and a bush bush for framing and background. Then they wanted to go to another house to take photos with other prom couples. The other house had a large swimming pool in the backyard and overlooked a golf course. Vastly different situation. I had planned to shoot one couple inside and ended up shooting 5 couples across a swimming pool with trees out of focus in the background. I was so glad I had brought the 18-200 instead of the 18-55 or 35-70 2.8 or any wide or normal primes. I was able to use the 18-200 to frame the 5 couples standing on the other side of the swimming pool and then zoom to 200 mm and shoot couple portraits from the same position across the pool as they all stood in a line. I purchased a 28-300 zoom for the D800, if it ever arrives. Just cannot beat that versatility.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Redirector sounds a bit like a set-up if you ask me just to butter potential D800 buyers up, this post was posted just prior to the D800 being held back due to what ever, we will never know. We have all waited with bated breath for our orders of the D800 to be filled only to be fed the carrot on the stick while not a word has come from the over-lord 'Nikon'. Yes, I have a D800 on order as I am an addict like most of you, to pay $1000 deposit and wait so long for any product these days is unbelievable.
Posted 1 year ago # -
earthsea said:
Redirector sounds a bit like a set-up if you ask me just to butter potential D800 buyers up, this post was posted just prior to the D800 being held back due to what ever, we will never know. We have all waited with bated breath for our orders of the D800 to be filled only to be fed the carrot on the stick while not a word has come from the over-lord 'Nikon'. Yes, I have a D800 on order as I am an addict like most of you, with shacking hands I payed my $1000 deposit only have my dealer give me a promissory note, this is unbelievable for purchasing any product these days. Addiction is a pig.Posted 1 year ago # -
earthsea said:
Redirector sounds a bit like a set-up if you ask me just to butter potential D800 buyers up, this post was posted just prior to the D800 being held back due to what ever, we will never know. We have all waited with bated breath for our orders of the D800 to be filled only to be fed the carrot on the stick while not a word has come from the over-lord 'Nikon'. Yes, I have a D800 on order as I am an addict like most of you, to pay $1000 deposit and wait so long for any product these days is unbelievable.Wow. Yes, Nikon mailed me a $48 check and asked me to commit a personal fraud, betting their corporate integrity that my post would singlehandedly overcome the negative impact of the worldwide waitlist.
KIDDING! You just can't trick the Kiwis. ;)
Seriously I hope you get your camera soon. And by that I don't mean to taunt you. I'm just like you, I ordered and waited. and it would suck if the order required a huge deposit. Best of luck.
So let me continue my "fraud":
The d800 can be very battery intensive. Extensive use of live view for focusing, mirror-up delayed shutter release, long exposures, occasional use of older AF lenses, 1080p video, and all the File processing definitely means you need a spare or two ready to go if you have an extended project. I think under "event" type projects where you are mostly using handheld and standard Technique there isn't a problem. But on a recent project that produced about 50GB of photo and video output in 12 hours of shooting time, it drained several batteries. So you will need to pack your charger, which does recharge fast enough to reload your main while using your spare. (These batteries are not the recall serial numbers).
What others have said about FX rings true for me more and more... I took my D90 and used it on the same job but only about 15% of the time. Putting DX glass on the D800 does have its moments, particularly on the long end, I can't afford a big FX tele yet. Maybe one day. But.... A simple long VR DX lens like the 55-300mm has produced beautiful results. That lens on the D800 on a monopod in bright light was just fine to capture detailed close ups of fledgling birds in stills and on 1080p video from 25 feet in a hurry. And Live-View is helpful with DX glass showing you the true framing on the LCD, unlike the viewfinder where you are obliged to remember your cropped boundaries and stay within the boxed outline. But putting FX glass back on is like getting an upgrade to First Class. More room in the viewfinder, better framing, more comfortable in the hand, better in low light.
For me, the D90 menus and controls are still faster and better handling when I am in a hurry or shooting varied subjects at an event. So I still need more time in the saddle for the Pro set of controls. Or Nikon needs to issue a Firmware upgrade and allow U1 and U2 custom settings on those function keys. That would help.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rikki said:
Complete noob question but Im not sure how to search for what Im looking either in the manual, menus or online :S
Basically I shoot 1/50 at 1080p 25fps as Im in the UK.
In video live view the D800 shows on the top LCD "A 25 2.8" and Im not sure how to alter that 25 to 50.
Ive hunted the menus and havent found what Im looking for so was wondering if someone could slap me with the simple answer Im not quite getting on my own
Thanks
RikPosted 9 months ago # -
No idea why the moderator decided to close my thread and put its contents inside this thread which bares no relevance at all but hey.
msmoto to answer your own answer of check page 70 - if you'd read it yourself you would have seen it gives NO information at all in regard to my question - neither did the 3 other topics you randomly plucked from a hat.
I see you have a habit of closing peoples threads and telling them to post in existing ones. That makes sense when they are of a similar topic nature but when they are completely different it muddies the waters and causes issues.
Not sure how long you have been a moderator but every forum Ive run or been involved in welcomed new users and new topics as long as they were concise and not spammy, mine was neither. But you seem to enjoy closing peoples threads and pointing them elsewhere.
Just my 2p worth having run my own site and forum for over 12 years now.
Cheers!
Rik
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rikki said:
I see you have a habit of closing peoples threads and telling them to post in existing ones. That makes sense when they are of a similar topic nature but when they are completely different it muddies the waters and causes issues.Not sure how long you have been a moderator but every forum Ive run or been involved in welcomed new users and new topics as long as they were concise and not spammy, mine was neither. But you seem to enjoy closing peoples threads and pointing them elsewhere.
^^This!
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rikki try page 60. I think you have to be in manual mode to do what you want.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rikki,
You're hitting on something that has been at issue at this forum for years. You're not alone in seeing the format as being in dire need of an update in its posting and moderation protocol. NikoDoby is no longer around, so maybe its time to find a better way of organizing the forum so that we don't have to use archived threads to discuss new topics. Many a new member has left after having their first experiences here being so negative, if only perceivably so. But I digress....
Posted 9 months ago # -
I've tried to stay interested in this forum but coming back day after day has been a little dissapointing. Maybe everyone is out doing photography! Anyway, I personally think there should be more flexibility with starting new topics regardless of how redundant they are.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Start posting in the PAD, thats a pretty rewarding thing to do
Posted 9 months ago # -
Why is this conversation in this thread?
How about deleting this post and the other 8 above - this isn't remotely relevant.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Back to the topic....somewhat.
Whether or not an upgraded or improved tool will make one better at a given craft is always debatable.
From my world view: put an untalented drummer behind the best sounding drum kit in the world and they will still only be capable of making terrible noise. To get to the level of expert or even pro takes years of technical proficiency AND artistic vision and sometimes, just plain old talent.
I have known many many technically proficient drummers that I hate to listen to. They may have good meter, good chops, quickness, etc but without style and emotion (you can even say "soul"), all those things that come with experience, they are as interesting as a puddle of milk.
It's good to have a piece of gear that makes you step up your game (and it's always good to have a tool that gets out of the way and lets you work). But it should always be about upping your proficiency till proficiency is an afterthought. Then at least one small aspect of being a better photographer is out of the way.
Posted 9 months ago # -
TaoTeJared said:
Why is this conversation in this thread?How about deleting this post and the other 8 above - this isn't remotely relevant.
The irony here is thick seeing as the redirected poster pointed out the irrelevance of being linked to this thread relative to her inquiry....but yeah, lets get back to the three month old thread, that should be good. *facepalm*
Posted 9 months ago # -
Back to to the subject again.
Will better equipment make you a better photographer? Absolutely Not!Usually I read through threads while composing a reply in my head and come across a post by TTS which are reasoned and well thought out and I agree with and never post anything. But not today I see that TTS said "Now as the Title of this thread is suggesting "Can the newest gear make you better" - I say yes to that as well.". Well I say, Sir, you are wrong.
Perhaps the problem is how one would define a "better" photographer. I'll say without a doubt that a D800 will give you higher image quality, better color rendition, better exposure..... But does that make you a better photographer? Take your oldest, lowest resolution camera put it on a tripod and take a picture, now put your D800 on the tripod and take the same picture. Were you a better photographer when you took the second picture?
Now I can only speak from my experience, I went from film (FM2) to a D200.I was amazed at how easy it was to get a good image with a new better camera.
Last week I pulled out my old Polaroid 350, got some Fuji pack film and went out shooting. I had 10 exposures, ruined the first 2 to getting the exposure right and had to really think about each shot. Had fun too! Did it make me a poorer photographer using obsolete equipment?
Better equipment makes it easier and if you are a good photographer you're going to get better quality images but it won't make a bad photographer good.
So the answer is No, never will better equipment make you a better photographer. A camera is a tool, nothing more and nothing less, with better tool you can do better work but it doesn't make you better.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Consider it differently. Better equipment will not instantly make you a better photographer, but it can allow you to take better photographs. For example comparing the images from a Coolpix p7000 to a D800, the D800 images are crisper and have less noise, better color & dynamic range etc. So the camera does allow you to capture a better image.
But beyond that, the better camera can also allow you to see errors in technique that might be masked by poorer quality equipment, so better equipment can help you to develop better technique.
So, IMO a better camera or equipment can immediately improve the quality of your images, but it does not immediately make you a better photographer. However, the better equipment can provide better feedback so that you can improve your technique and expand your capabilities.
Better equipment does not a better photographer make, but it can accelerate the process.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I'll throw this out there:
A crappy camera will more likely make you a better photographer than a great camera.
Discuss.
Posted 9 months ago # -
R8R said:
I'll throw this out there:A crappy camera will more likely make you a better photographer than a great camera.
Discuss.
true but the same could be said for a top of the line camera could force you to learn and improve in order to use it efficiently i guess that door swings both ways inevitably its down to the "User" and there eagerness or drive to push forward and improve and learn and grow as a photographer. although i have to agree jumping in at the deepend so too speak before you can swim can actually slow your progress down.
Posted 9 months ago #
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