where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
jerl said:
It's an interesting rumor, but I'm not so sure that I'm ready to buy into it yet. Already, Nikon has supply problems with making enough D4's and D800's, adding a cheaper, potentially more popular FX camera would really just make that worse.
Nikon hadn't anticipated the demand for the D4 or D800(E).
If true, the wheels for this D600 will have been put into motion long, long ago - so inability to meet demand unfortunately doesn't seem a good enough reason not to buy into this.
On a positive note (all this moaning about slow delivery just makes us look like spoiled brats IMO):
What a FANTASTIC job Nikon are doing at the moment - leading Canon in terms of resolution and noise and giving us such a great range of cameras to choose from. It is no wonder they have some small issues at the moment, to do all of this on top of what they've been through is incredible.
WELL DONE AND THANK YOU NIKON!
spraynpray said:
On a positive note (all this moaning about slow delivery just makes us look like spoiled brats IMO):What a FANTASTIC job Nikon are doing at the moment - leading Canon in terms of resolution and noise and giving us such a great range of cameras to choose from. It is no wonder they have some small issues at the moment, to do all of this on top of what they've been through is incredible.
WELL DONE AND THANK YOU NIKON!
Totally agree. I never thought there would be the possibility of an affordable FX body. The future is bright, the future is Nikon. Can't wait to find out more!
andrewz said:
The price has to be right around $2K any higher and people will just get a D800. Much lower it would pull sale from our much anticipated D400.
That's assuming there's still going to be a D400 or other D300 replacement. Remember, when the D7000 came out with specs very close to the 300, everybody started speculating on a cheap full-frame; now that camera's possibly in the pipeline. I honestly don't see how you squeeze a DX into the tiny space between the 7000 and the supposed 600. I think the price difference, at that point, would be so tiny that someone's going to say the heck with it and either save money by going with a 7000, or spend the tiny bit extra for FF.
Just my opinion, mind you.
I'm pretty confident there will be a D400, people don't write books and have pre-orders available for cameras that don't exist. I'm pretty sure we saw this with the D800.
I agree, there will be a D400 and it is sure be DX now if there is an FX entry model as the D600. The D400 will have more than 24 megapixels because Nikon will want it to be "above" the D3200 and mp is how many consumer level photographers judge "above" and "below." It will have professional level autofocus, buffer, shutter longevity, etc. The only thing the D600 does, if the rumor about its existence is true, is to take away the option of the new D400 going to FX format. Everything else stays the same as people have been expecting and speculating for over a year now.
What will the D600 be? What sensor? The same one as used in the D4? A recycled D3s sensor? A new FX sensor? We don't know. Perhaps whichever one would be least expensive to produce and use in the new body. Is is less expensive to keep producing D3s sensor and put it in the D600? Is it less expensive to simply take some D4 sensors off that line and use them in the D600? Is it cheaper to produce a new 12 mp FX sensor? We just don't know Nikon's production costs. If the D600 is to be "entry level" it will have to sell for around $2,000 so NIkon will have to count their pennies on every item they put into the camera. Some things, such as HDR, which is done in software should cost nothing. Other things, such as buffer will cost whatever memory chips cost. I suggest a plastic body would be a way to cut cost.
It seems the current FX assembly plant in Japan is unable to produce enough D4, D800 and D800e models to meet demand. How can they add another camera? Perhaps Nikon will assemble the D600 outside of Japan where labor is cheaper. Hence my speculation about a new Chinese or Thailand assembly plant we do not yet know about.
There is much to speculate about. I just hope the underlying speculation of a D600 is true and that it is announced this summer.
It is a really good time to be a Nikon DSLR fan! Go Nikon!
Already??? A rumored D600??? If they do release it here's their chance to redo the HD video aspect (e.g. allowing the user to change the volume during recording...something neither the D800/D4 can do...deal breaker for me).
I would rather see Nikon put out a "D900". Lower MP than the D800. Include the low light shooting ability of the D800/D4 (e.g. native ISO 100-12,800) while not letting noise become visible till 25,600 keeping detail up to 12,800. In other words better high ISO performance than either the D800 or D4. Higher FPS than the D800 (perhaps 7-8 FPS). Something to one up the Canon 5D3.
donaldejose said:
If the D600 is to be "entry level" it will have to sell for around $2,000 so NIkon will have to count their pennies on every item they put into the camera.
Its looking like its going to be a lot cheaper than that. And if it does come in around $1500, then you can say good bye to your D400 and get used to whatever the D7100 ends up looking like. I have a feeling that DX is only going to live on in mid-level bodies and in DX-crop mode.
BDD888 said:
Already??? A rumored D600??? If they do release it here's their chance to redo the HD video aspect (e.g. allowing the user to change the volume during recording...something neither the D800/D4 can do...deal breaker for me).I would rather see Nikon put out a "D900". Lower MP than the D800. Include the low light shooting ability of the D800/D4 (e.g. native ISO 100-12,800) while not letting noise become visible till 25,600 keeping detail up to 12,800. In other words better high ISO performance than either the D800 or D4. Higher FPS than the D800 (perhaps 7-8 FPS). Something to one up the Canon 5D3. Aiming this FF body at journalists, sport/action shooters...etc.
Hmm... seeing the new post, I really hope it will have an AF motor. Lacking one of those would make it a definite no-buy to me. My best glass is AF-S, but I am really not motivated to replace my AF-D glass at the moment... if this body was just $1500, I'd still be making up the difference between a D600 and a D800 just replacing my 20mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2.8 macro...
El_Pickerel said:
Hmm... seeing the new post, I really hope it will have an AF motor. Lacking one of those would make it a definite no-buy to me. My best glass is AF-S, but I am really not motivated to replace my AF-D glass at the moment... if this body was just $1500, I'd still be making up the difference between a D600 and a D800 just replacing my 20mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2.8 macro...
I agree. No AF motor would be a deal breaker for me as well.
El_Pickerel said:
Hmm... seeing the new post, I really hope it will have an AF motor. Lacking one of those would make it a definite no-buy to me. My best glass is AF-S, but I am really not motivated to replace my AF-D glass at the moment... if this body was just $1500, I'd still be making up the difference between a D600 and a D800 just replacing my 20mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2.8 macro...
No AF screw/body motor. Read the specs on the main blog page.
New lenses due too; FX size but no AF screw.
24MP and lord knows what else.
I would just laugh if that strap ends up being another one of these mess ups
Dropping the AF motor would go a long way in lowering the cost. I'm not sure when the last AF motor lens was actually released - had to be close to 10 years ago?
That might be a dealbreaker for me, too. As I've been buying lenses for my 7000, I've tried to stay with FF stuff in case I upgrade later... which has meant a couple of D lenses. I don't think it'd matter as much for the 105, but it would for the 28.
An entry level FX camera wouldn't be targeted at people with existing older glass. No AF motor makes sense as a mechanism to cut cost of manufacture.
This rumoured D600 would be aimed at people making the step up from DX, or across from other systems, i.e. people starting from scratch with their lenses.
Yeah, but I'm one of those "people making the step up from DX" with existing older glass, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. I'm sure there are also people who bought upper-end DX cameras with screw drive motors in them that might not have given a second thought to FF absent a "cheaper" model who bought AF-D glass anyway... I don't think it's all that far-fetched.
24 mp Fx for $1,500? Seems like you can say "goodby" to a D400 DX. No longer a price point for it to occupy. At that price they just have to be making this camera in China assembled by 12 year old kids freshly forced to city factories from the rural areas. Maybe the Chinese company that has been assembling iphones for Apple is opening a new factory for Nikon. Or maybe one of the fake Rolex factories is branching out to cameras? I don't know now if I should even buy it until I first learn how the workers who built it were treated!
I think any thought of a $1500 price point is just wishful thinking. With the D800 at $3000 a price point of right around $2000 makes sense. Any lower and it will hurt D400 sales. Unless these two cameras are marketed completely different but I don't see that happening. Who knows? Nikon but they aren't talking yet!
O.k. I should read the main page before I post. Wow if it comes in a $1500, what does that mean for the D400 and I might be buying the D600. As far as the AF motor, I'll be buy FX lens and to be honest lens without their own internal motor focus so slow... I remember when they took kick starters of my motorcycles not such a bad thing. Technology moves forward.
andrewz said:
O.k. I should read the main page before I post. Wow if it comes in a $1500, what does that mean for the D400 and I might be buying the D600. As far as the AF motor, I'll be buy FX lens and to be honest lens without their own internal motor focus so slow... I remember when they took kick starters of my motorcycles not such a bad thing. Technology moves forward.
It's all speculation right now, so anything is possible.
If it does end up at about the $1500 price point (lets say in a range of $1499 to $1599), then the big issue will be that the "better" optically speaking or at least the "classically good" FX lenses out there now are those that seem to have screw type AF in them. What a surprise!
My next question will be "Can I use my old AI lenses from film on a D600? Will they work with the metering?", and then "Will the newer lenses actually be better than these older ones?" and of course, "Define better"... At least there looks like options!!!
I wonder how much the third party lens makers are in a panic (or not) tonight and I am not just thinking about design and patents, but can they get product out in time for launch day or even in any amount of quantity in time for the holiday season? Will Nikon?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... "Will Nikon?" Oh dear me!
All of you are just way too funny!!!! One guy speculates $1,500 and by the 4th post, it somehow has become true! $200 more than the D7000? Don't think so. $2,400-2,700 is where this will land. D400 will be around $1,800-2,100.
You guys want cheap, but are not willing to give anything up.
No AF motor - That would be a good trade off. From what I can tell, the only lens design that has been released in the last 12 years and has not been updated is the 80-400mm VR.
Still active lenses and release month/year:
16/2.8 D Sep 93 >
20/2.8 D Mar 94 >
24/2.8 D Apr 94 >
28/2.8 D Oct 94 >
35/2 D Mar 95 >
50/1.8 D Feb 02 >
50/1.4 D Apr 95 >
85/1.8 D Mar 94 >
105/2 D DC Sep 93 >
135/2 D DC Nov 95 >
180/2.8 D IF-ED Dec 94 >
If you have older glass - you got at least 15 years out of it if not more. You can't expect Nikon to always have a motor, even in cheap bodies. Everyone got used to it when the D50 was the last cheap body with it, as too will people now. At some point it has to go. And if you want a cheap FX sensor - there you go. Maybe they will finely release updates to the f2.8 glass.
The concerning thing is, there really isn't cheap ($400-700) FX glass to go with it. The one lens patent has one, but there is nothing wide to moderate that is current. 70-300 is the only other "cheap" lens. The rest of the zooms are $1,000+. The only primes are the 50mm-s and the 85mm 1.8. The 28mm 1.8 is on the edge of a little too much. The rest of the primes are $2,000 each. Nothing in that wide realm again in the $400-700 range. That's an issue they will have to address soon.
HAHAHA here's to hoping it's a D7000 with FX sensor in a slightly larger body. That's enough to make me buy one! :P Man, I don't even know why I'm getting all excited by this in the first place
TaoTeJared said:
The concerning thing is, there really isn't cheap ($400-700) FX glass to go with it. The one lens patent has one, but there is nothing wide to moderate that is current. 70-300 is the only other "cheap" lens. The rest of the zooms are $1,000+. The only primes are the 50mm-s and the 85mm 1.8. The 28mm 1.8 is on the edge of a little too much. The rest of the primes are $2,000 each. Nothing in that wide realm again in the $400-700 range. That's an issue they will have to address soon.
That's a good point. If the D600 is sold for a reasonable price ($1500, £1500 would be fine), I'm not sure I'd be able to afford the expensive FX glass to go with it. Maybe I'd have to wait longer for this new apparent entry level FX market to mature and hopefully the cost of FX glass will come down. By then, we might have another new entry level FX body!
donaldejose said:
24 mp Fx for $1,500? Seems like you can say "goodby" to a D400 DX. No longer a price point for it to occupy. At that price they just have to be making this camera in China assembled by 12 year old kids freshly forced to city factories from the rural areas. Maybe the Chinese company that has been assembling iphones for Apple is opening a new factory for Nikon. Or maybe one of the fake Rolex factories is branching out to cameras? I don't know now if I should even buy it until I first learn how the workers who built it were treated!
I'd take that bet Donald - there seems to be a lot of confusion about the D400 in this thread regarding its price and its position in the range. It is a pro body. The D7000/7100 is consumer so the comparisons people are making with the price of the D600 (FX D3100 or D5100)are B.S.
I speculate that the D600 will become my tool of choice for many years to come (if the FX part and lower mp count part of the rumor are true). No point in paying more if less will do the trick. Even if the thing did not have a built in AF motor, I´d still be tempted (I have no old AF glass anymore, and I am not going to get any).
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