Wedding Photographer Upgrading Camera - D800 or D4 or D3s

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Wedding Photographer Upgrading Camera - D800 or D4 or D3s

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Jonmphotography

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Ok heres my setup and concerns.

I currently love my D700 and use it as my primary camera with a 24-70mm 2.8 lens. I have a 300s for my secondary camera coupled with a 70-200mm 2.8 or 50mm 1.8 fx model, making it more like a 75mm. I really dont like to use the 300s with the 70-200 very often. I probably use my D700 setup 80% of the time. So thats another reason I want to upgrade. II also have a D7000 and just never use it.

So my thought is to sell the D7000, D300s and 70-200mm lens. With the money either buy a D800 and have some left over or spend a little extra on the D4.

My major concern is Low Light Capability, Dynamic Range, and Good focusing. As any Wedding Photographer knows priests dont like flashes in churches and Receptions can be dimly lit. Not to mention I hate using flash. I like natural light, so the best low light performer is what im looking for, after all thats why i went with the D700 in the first place.

My thoughts. I like that the D800 has a better dynamic range. I do not like that it is 36mp. I do NOT want all of that file space eaten up. I like that the D4 has a better high ISO capability and is only 16 mp, has double the life expectancy, and image is better, but dont like the cost of course. Not really sure why I would go with the D3s over these two, but that has been recommended to me.

So with that said. I am looking to have my D700 as my second camera (not backup) I will probably attach my 50mm 1.8 lens for my more artistic shots and low light help. And then use the new model as my primary with my 24-70mm 2.8. I may switch the lenses at the time of the ceremony if its dark and reception to get the most out of a low light situation. I love taking pictures with no flash so my fastest lens with a camera that can handle higher ISO would be best for that. And I already have a great system when I need a flash on my D700.

What do you guys think?
You can see my work at Lake Tahoe Wedding Photography

Thanks,
Jon

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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Jonmphotography said:
..................but dont like the cost of course.

I found my self in a similar dilemma

cost and the additional weight was the deciding factor

another thing to put in the equation, is availability, I still waiting for my D800

D3s? depends on price

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Go to Photo-A-Day and look at the photo I posted yesterday of the motor.... D4 ISO 10,000.

Here it is very large

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7091167431/sizes/o/in/photostream/

And at ISO 10,000 the noise in what is about a 16x20 print or so... really less than one sees in film. Also, the lens was an old AF Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5.

This should make up your mind if can go the extra bucks...

Posted 1 year ago #
Godless

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Jonmphotography said:
So my thought is to sell the D7000, D300s and 70-200mm lens. With the money either buy a D800 and have some left over or spend a little extra on the D4.

Unless you really need the fast fps the D4 can do, get the D800. 4fps should be enough for weddings. The low-light capability of either camera is more than good enough. Get the 24mm 1.4G (or 28mm 1.8G) and the 85mm 1.8G and you´re set up for weddings.

My 2 cents.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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Godless said:
. Get the 24mm 1.4G

This amazing lens is top my "wish list"

Posted 1 year ago #
Godless

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sevencrossing said:
This amazing lens is top my "wish list"

I love mine. The best glass under 6k which I have ever shot with. Awesome for concerts, butterflies, kids, pets, landscapes (esp. night shots), tight quarters and candids.
Curious to see whether the 28mm 1.8G can match up in quality. I´m getting that too.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi all,

To the OP, unless I miss my guess, you'd be just as well off, and better suited to have two D700s.

The D3s don't offer _you_ much more than weight for your money, and, the lack of clarity around the D8000 gives me the impression you might get more pixels with less light sensitivity, if the data are right.

If you are ecstatic about the D700, why not go with what you know? You'd have one set of knobs, controls, batteries, settings, 'everything' to master and control, and the whole thing would be less confusing.

My best,

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
iamvoldemort

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I only shoot weddings. I have a D800 pre ordered myself and have sold my d700 in the mean time. I use a d7000 as my backup currently (which is apparently my main camera now until my order arrives!) I have seriously been thinking if the D800 is right for me at this point. I don't have the funds to go for a D4 and a d3s would be a stretch also.

That leaves me with possibly going back to the D700 if my D800 shipment takes any longer. I know and LOVE the D700. I could shoot a wedding on one battery and only a few smaller CF cards. The 36mp and supposed short battery life is really making me re-consider my D800 order.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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I know I would be kicking myself if I ever got rid of my 70-200 although other lenses do get used more, I can always count on that one for almost anything out of the ordinary that came up. Selling high-end glass that can be used for 10 years for a body that will show it's age in 3 never makes since in my mind. I always struggle with buying stuff that just looses value quickly.

A D3s and D700 for another 4 years may be stretching it and would show their age quite a bit. If you bite the bullet now, you can rest knowing that you will not have to make another decision in 4 years.

When it comes to how much you can afford - only you know what is best. If you believe in 2 years you will be in a better position what Mike G said probably makes the best since and you wouldn't have to sell glass for a body and the camera wouldn't be out of step yet.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ofeqve

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The major disadvantage of a D3s is that once you used one, nothing else will do (other than a D4). My current setup is a D3s/ D700 combination and there are many differences between the two, including image quality especially ISO 800 and higher. Operationaly the D3s is a class above.

I'm not dissing the D700. It's a fantastic camera I've enjoyed shooting weddings with for 3 years (and counting). What I dislike is the "sour grapes" syndrome affecting some of the people who will never buy a D# series camera.

Posted 1 year ago #
Pierre

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iamvoldemort said:
...making me re-consider my D800 order.

When you get it, could you send it to me? Ill cover all your costs.

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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OK, so where did Jon M go? He has some nice stuff on his website, but has not returned to this thread. Too bad. I wanted to re-emphasize the D4 is the camera for him. D800 will not give him the ISO and in a wedding... estimate 200-400 exposures, one does not want to have all that extra MP load in the computer. No need for 45MB files. The D4 would allow him to get the shots others can only hope for. The unbelievable low light characteristics... perfect for his work. And, if he is charging the right price... should pay for it in a couple of weddings As far as getting a used or older model camera...D3s, D700.... not a good business practice. Like going to the races with last years car....AKA "also ran"

But, he apparently has gone into the clouds.... . Or, is trying to find one of the new NIKONs.... either way, hope it all works out...

Posted 1 year ago #
MikeWhis

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Go for either a D4 or D800. If you can't, then keep your D700. D3s is just less than half a stop better than D700, it's not much better. Save for a D4 or D800.

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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Mike Gunter said:
Hi all,

To the OP, unless I miss my guess, you'd be just as well off, and better suited to have two D700s.

Plus 1! When I do upgrade it'll definitely be to the D4 or more likely the D4s, not the D800

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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sevencrossing said:
I found my self in a similar dilemma

cost and the additional weight was the deciding factor

another thing to put in the equation, is availability, I still waiting for my D800

...

Well my D800 has arrived

The 800 lives up to all the hype.The focus switch takes a bit of getting used to .The auto ISO, which adjusts the shutter speed, depending on focal length, is a nice feature

If you can get down to ISO 100 the results are outstanding

For weddings I can't see why you might need a D4 it is designed for sports and Press work

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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sevencrossing said:

For weddings I can't see why you might need a D4 it is designed for sports and Press work

Congratulations Seven! With regards to your comment above, funnily enough I would make the reverse comment about the D800, a camera I would view as best suited to landscapes? Just goes to show.......each to his own.

Enjoy it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Rummer

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I got my D800 in Japan last month, and I am enjoying the camera greatly. It is my first fx camera, coming from a D50 to D60 to D90 to D7000. I do not conduct any scientific comparison tests on my cameras because that's not what I do with them, but I'll provide some input that may help the original question on this thread. I have not yet shot a wedding with it, but I have tried it in various venues that a wedding may take place in.

First, the D800 would be a wonderful camera for engagement and formal shots, especially those taken outside, better than the D3s and maybe better than the D4. The dynamic range is much better than my D7000 or the D700 and D3s I rented last year. The sharpness, especially when used with a 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII and 85mm f/1.4G are phenomenal. Many of these shots are the sharpest photos I have ever taken. I am not as impressed when used with my old 50mm f/1.4D. It's sharp, but not phenomenally sharp as the other two lenses. The 16-35mm f/4G is better than the 50mm, but again, not as sharp as the other two lenses.

Secondly, the autofocus reliability in low light has increased tremendously from the D7000 and the D700. I get really accurate AF results almost every time, without the motor hunting for what to focus. The virtual horizon feature inside the optical viewfinder also makes composition so much easier, and it's a feature I hope will be included in all future DSLRs.

Third, I have not been as impressed with the D800's low light capabilities as far as noise is concerned. Noise creeps in quickly at around ISO 1600, which is probably the maximum I'm willing to go with this camera. You can get rid of some noise in post and maintain some sharpness, but ultimately the D3s (and expectedly the D4) will trump the D800 on this front. This is a problem in almost all wedding venues I have been to, where you need to be at least ISO1600 or greater without flash, such as chapels, ballrooms, restaurants, etc. My feeling is that the D800's strengths are from ISO 100 to 800. After that, I feel that the D800 loses its advantages, and can be a disadvantage when used handheld without a flash. Looking at my past wedding photos, more than half are taken at 1600. For me, when used during a wedding, the D800 will be a good second camera, but not the main one.

Finally, some reviewers have talked about the fact that it is difficult to edit and store 36mp files. I use a mid 2009 13" Macbook Pro with 8GB RAM and edit/store completely on external Lacie Rugged Mini portable hard disks. So far, I have not noticed any more slowdown on my computer than when I was editing 16mp files from my D7000 in Lightroom 4. I really do not think that the larger size is a disadvantage, unless you really cannot afford a new hard drive or memory cards.

Posted 1 year ago #
April

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D3s is a tried and true wedding camera and you can get a pretty good deal on a preowned one right now. Would not recommend the d800 for non-portrait work

Posted 1 year ago #
pepepalosamigos

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Dear Jon,

I am amateur photographer, but quite enthusiastic ;-) I owned D300 and shifted to 2a nd hand D3s pussing to 2 years ago. Since then, I have shot many protraitures of my young chidren (thousands!) with natural light in very low light conditions with excelent results: up to ISO 1600 dynamic range is outstanding, up to ISO 3200 is still very high and images are perfect. Above such ISO it depends on the picture, lense, and shutter speed (the faster the less noisy), but for wedding prints up to ISO 6400 many of shots are usable with the proper postprocessing (noise reduction) for printing up to 8x12 inches. I have covered some friends weddings and I have ever printed in album photos at ISO 10,000 (low light disco dancing) shot at 1/125s with Nikon 50mm f1,4 (affordable and with much faster focussing in extremly low light than the other much more expensive f1,4s).

Now I have ordered a D800 for landscape and protraiture with flashes. I have read about the good high ISO peformance: great, an add. But file size is crazy for wedding printing size. And D800 will eat batteries one after another (I am getting 6 batteries).

I would use a D4 or a D3s for weddings, keeping the great D700 as second body. D4 does not make large difference in terms of resolution nor ISO vs D3s: 16 vs 12 MP is little more resolution, and ISO 2800 vs ISO 3200 is little lower ISO capabilty (DxO Mark)... not a difference to shift. For me the PROs of D4 are based in uograded technology (SW and processor): focus system (fast and working down to f8), good for sports thought at weddings may well help not to miss a moment, face recognition exposure system (no more compensations)... but D3s retains the crown in high ISO, it has been also posted D4 noise reduction is more agressive than D3s's (?), but what is absolutely true is that D3s battery life is almost 2x than D4's and that D3s is proven and has a solid reputation well deserved: no problems at all.

Below please find some D3s samples of high ISO:

At ISO 3200:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pepepalosamigos/6301628569/in/set-72157628302971689

At ISO 6400

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pepepalosamigos/6994902687/in/set-72157629250812762

So my tip is easy: forget D800, and get a D4 is you can afford it, but without discarding a D3s if you can get a good deal (2nd hand from a non professional like me, so shutter is still within "single" age)

Cheers

Jose

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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I think the OP went with Canon, ha, ha, ha... has not reposted to anything here...

But, the locals who are looking at the D4/D800s are seeing about the same quality at ISO 6400 regarding noise, or lack thereof, so it looks like the D800 will perform quite well in low light. I am a "real life experience" person, and it is always good to find the performance in the field is confirming what the tests suggest.

Posted 1 year ago #
Sean Molin

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I flat-out believe the D800 is an *amazing* camera for most wedding photographers. If you are the kind that shoots 3,000 to 4,000 images a wedding, probably not. I overshoot on purpose during "moments"... but I don't come close to those numbers. I'm trying to lower my shot-numbers every single wedding, too.

But when you are selling 12x12 albums with 24" spreads, I'll take every amazing megapixel I can.

Posted 1 year ago #
pistnbroke

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I dont understand why you want to spend so much of your profits (or is it increased lossed on cameras) After 20 years as a qualified wedding photographer I have at present 2 x D 7000 ..18-200mm ...Why ..cheap and has two cards ..those SD are not reliable..I would be happy with two D3200 IF they had two card slots and throw them away at the end of each season..well sell them so I wait for a D 7200 which I hope is 24 mp and dual slots

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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I just made a photo book with some 24 inch wide double page spreads using a D7000. The image contained enough megapixels for that. So I would say a 16 mp D7000 would be enough for a wedding photographer unless you think your clients are going to want 20 x 30 inch prints. I have made those with a D7000 also and they were fine but perhaps not optimal.

Posted 1 year ago #
Thomas R

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Jonmphotography said:
Ok heres my setup and concerns.

I currently love my D700 and use it as my primary camera with a 24-70mm 2.8 lens. I have a 300s for my secondary camera coupled with a 70-200mm 2.8 or 50mm 1.8 fx model, making it more like a 75mm. I really dont like to use the 300s with the 70-200 very often. I probably use my D700 setup 80% of the time. So thats another reason I want to upgrade. II also have a D7000 and just never use it.

So my thought is to sell the D7000, D300s and 70-200mm lens. With the money either buy a D800 and have some left over or spend a little extra on the D4.

My major concern is Low Light Capability, Dynamic Range, and Good focusing. As any Wedding Photographer knows priests dont like flashes in churches and Receptions can be dimly lit. Not to mention I hate using flash. I like natural light, so the best low light performer is what im looking for, after all thats why i went with the D700 in the first place.

My thoughts. I like that the D800 has a better dynamic range. I do not like that it is 36mp. I do NOT want all of that file space eaten up. I like that the D4 has a better high ISO capability and is only 16 mp, has double the life expectancy, and image is better, but dont like the cost of course. Not really sure why I would go with the D3s over these two, but that has been recommended to me.

So with that said. I am looking to have my D700 as my second camera (not backup) I will probably attach my 50mm 1.8 lens for my more artistic shots and low light help. And then use the new model as my primary with my 24-70mm 2.8. I may switch the lenses at the time of the ceremony if its dark and reception to get the most out of a low light situation. I love taking pictures with no flash so my fastest lens with a camera that can handle higher ISO would be best for that. And I already have a great system when I need a flash on my D700.

What do you guys think?
You can see my work at Lake Tahoe Wedding Photography

Thanks,
Jon

Get the D800.

Posted 11 months ago #
donaldejose

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All will work fine: D3s, D4, D700 and D800. They just have different advantages and disadvantages. Soon there will be a D600 and D400 which should also work fine with their own advantages and disadvantages.

But here is a question. I noticed no one mentioned the D3x although I know a few wedding photographers who used to them for their portrait quality (replaced them with D800 now). What is the place, if any, for a D3x these days? It has high IQ at base ISO but not good high ISO performance. When, if ever, should a person select a used D3x over a D4 or D800? I don't see any reason to do so unless the price falls low enough for it to compete against the new D400, D7000 replacement or D600. Unless it sells for less than a D800 people should just buy the D800.

Posted 10 months ago #