Little bit of advice / helpful comments please

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Little bit of advice / helpful comments please

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Thechemist

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Hi Everybody,

I was hoping you could give me a little creative advice, that I could apply when I am out and about trying to get that "one" magic shot! Here is a picture that I took this evening, in Bristol, UK. To me the scene looked really interesting, but I couldn't seem to get a photo just how I wanted. From lurking on the PAD thread I know some of you would have definitely been able to make the picture pop!

So I am wondering, in this situation what would you have done differently? Fully opening up to a bit of creative criticism, but don't be too mean - I know rule number one is get out and take photos, and every time I have some free time that is what I am doing! When I took this photo, the light was getting a little flat (after work), so I guess that would have helped too!

Picture was taken with D5000 at 35mm f1.8 (f5.0), 1/40, ISO 320.

Cheers!

P.s. Sorry if this isn't strictly a thread about Nikon rumours, admin feel free to shut this down if too off topic.

p.p.s for the full file: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29235517@N08/7077423237/

Posted 1 year ago #
jonnyapple

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I don't know about anyone else, but I hesitate to say anything because I don't know how you want it to look. The photo a day thread used to have more criticism on it.

In that kind of thinking mode, I would say I'm not sure what your subject is supposed to be. I like that my eyes want to take a trip up the path and up the stairs. It looks like a fun place for a photo walk.

Posted 1 year ago #
jonnyapple

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On second thought, instagram x-pro II. ;-)

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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Where this photo falls down (and where any photo falls down) is the fact that I don't know what you want to show.

What makes a photo go from meh to good, is effectively portraying an idea or sense of something.

What makes a photo go from good to great is composition and lighting.

SO...

use the following points, and then critique yourself. you are the best judge of whether you portrayed the concept you wanted to, and therefore in the best position to critique the picture. you have already said you would like it to be better, so look at the following;

1. what did you want to show?
2. what compositional elements did you use to help convey this?
3. what lighting elements did you use to help convey this?

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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I second Gareth's comments. It needs a subject or to illustrate something.

I took a whack at it, but I had a hard time finding a focus. The file was so low quality It was hard to do much with but as a composition this is what I might do.

Posted 1 year ago #
dormant

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There is just too much going on in the picture (in my opinion). You need to select what you want to highlight, then crop to it. (It is of course preferable to shoot the desired image and avoid cropping).

TaoTeJared has a good suggestion. I would crop a lot off the top and bottom, like this.

But it still doesn't really work.

Posted 1 year ago #
Rx4Photo

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Hello Thechemist,

Just like those above me have said, it would be difficult to say what would make that photo pop without knowing what you'd like for it to portray. On the other hand, oftentimes photos just fall into their own realm of uniqueness right out of the camera. I've made it one of my 2012 new year's resolutions to work on composition - which involves shooting a scene from different angles instead of straight on.

For me, this scene has a bit of potential but it will take effort on your behalf. I was just reading a photographers blog where he stated that photographers often go back to a photo site more than once - to capture that image in a different light or from a different angle. If possible, that's what you should try to do. Go back at a different time of day or on a cloudy day. If space allows, pull back and take a few steps to the right. Doing so will place that walkway at an angle and might reveal a little more of what's beyond the top of the hill. Shooting from that angle will also reveal more of the graffiti and will separate the vertical posts across what I believe is a short bridge. From this head-on position it looks like one piece of wood on each side.

Also, don't forget to shoot a few from a low angle position. Especially if your sky is a bit dramatic. Underexpose a stop or two - see what that produces. These are all just ideas and things I would try - probably why I've been asked more than a couple of times "who do you work for?" while out shooting for fun.

Regards

Posted 1 year ago #
Yetibuddha

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Dear Chemist,

You have a number of good suggestions here. When I get serious about my hobby (I am only an amateur), I think about the story I want the image to tell. So, as people have suggested, its difficult to determine what the subject is in your composition. The story might be the walkway, and what one encounters, or it might be the building with the graffiti on it. In telling the story, try to keep the composition simple, with just a few elements that work in harmony, or they might be distinct opposites. Think about how everything fits together. In your image, the leaning fence on the right tends to compete with the building on the left for the eye's attention.

There are a number of guidelines for compositions, such as the so-called "rule of thirds" or the fibonacci curve. Think about those, move to your left or right, up or down or twist the angle of the camera to put your subject in a position to catch the eye. Think about a pattern that might be evident, or separate objects in the composition from each other with "negative space"--areas in the photo that seem to be empty. Remember, a camera does not see the the world as the same as your eyes. Try adding some dimensionality to the composition with an object in the foreground or think about what lines lead the viewer's eye to the subject.

For me, learning these concepts took a long time, and I am still learning. Most photos I take are deleted because what I originally thought would work doesn't when I see them in two dimensional space.

One thing we all do is experiment to see what seems to work best. And asking for feedback is important.

Above all, have fun.

Posted 1 year ago #
Paperman

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Unfortunately, in photography, what you see is not what you get.

You have to see "thru" the camera lens meaning you have to be able to visualize the end result and have an idea about what will look good on the photo and what will not. When you look at a scene, you may be thrilled by what you see because your mind/eye focuses on a specific part - unconsciously. When you take the shot as it is standing in front of you, there is little chance the resulting photo will reflect the exact same image/sensation you had in your mind.

Same for your photo as everyone else has indicated. Simply too many things because you have taken the view "as is" . The eye needs a focus point or a point of interest otherwise gets lost.

I would have gone for something like this but would have chosen a higher angle to shoot , pointing a bit down to get the wood texture of the foot bridge. This type of trees - not my favorites to photograph I must admit. Tiny twigs/branches - just too hard to get all the details + tiring for the eye .

It is also quite hard to create a feeling of depth with the 35mm (DX); would have gone for a wider lens.

Posted 1 year ago #
elvishefer

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It looks like a great place to get sucked in for a while. I tend to go closer if I can whenever I'm at a loss for capturing 'the big picture'. I'd focus on the amazing cream colored wall texture and graffiti, and then look at the stone wall to the right of it. It's in shade, but there's a lot of detail (even from this angle) that looks interesting.

If you're trying to document the site 'as a whole', I would suggest getting off the path and shooting to the right or left of where you stood. I think the stair case in the background is tricky; it's too far removed from the building to easily compose with it. You could change lenses to something longer, stand back and allow the focal length to compress the image to try to bring building and staircase together... but doing so might create other unwanted side effects.

As you said, try when the sun is closer to the horizon and on the building, it'll bring out the building texture more and warm it up some. It's a great place, keep going back (if it's convenient) until you get some pics you like; I find I learn better if I keep trying to make something work. I look forward to seeing more!

Posted 1 year ago #
adamz

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for me this photo is too flat - from the light point of view. I would make the corner area more dimmed, app -1,-1.5 exp. also there's too much thing happening on this photo. don't know what's the subject of this shot: wall on left, bridge, stairs in the back... not to mention the right part with this metal fence. I would crop it to make the bridge a little bit more on the right. (crop out the fence on the far right). also a slight crop from the top, as the sky on in the top left corner doesn't look too good

I've took it through snapseed on iPad and here's the effect I was writing about:

Posted 1 year ago #
spraynpray

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One thing someone said to me made quite a difference to the photos I take, and that is simply to decide if there is a photo there to be taken. Sounds daft, but it has made me shoot far less frames than before when the digital age made me click first and decide later.

HTH.

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Here is mine...

What I did was to crop slightly to eliminate some extraneous areas. I increased contrast, saturation, desaturated the foreground, brought out the stairs to pull the eye into the photo, and fiddled with about ten other things....

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Just another comment.... I find I cannot be critical of another's photo as so much of the stuff I shoot is.... well, maybe not so great. But, I enjoy the challenge of trying to use the NIKON equipment and get the most out of it. In the photo above, I had some fun playing in Lightroom4 and seeing what could be done with the shot. Quite often, I shoot something, not really knowing what I want. Or I think I know what I want and find I cannot get the shot. The excitement for me is using the NIKON equipment, pushing it to the limit and seeing if I can get something which others might enjoy seeing as well. On PAD, we all put up some really good stuff, and I think we all put up some not so great stuff at times... I certainly do! Like the one I put up today... cropped down to about 10% of the frame... and interesting only to race car fans....

If I were to comment on my own version of the "redo" above, I would most likely warm it up a bit and possibly increase the black density, that is darken the blacks, but so often what we see in Lightroom or other programs, when pushed through Flicker, then to NRF, seems to change in its final rendition.

But it certainly is a learning experience. Let's see some more photos... And, welcome to NRF, James

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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@Thechemist

Hey, did you disappear on us? Hope I did not hurt your feelings, James.

Posted 1 year ago #
Thechemist

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Hi msmoto,

Thanks for the concern - no don't worry, no feelings were hurt. Unfortunately I've just had a busy week in the office! Everybody's input was of tremendous value on this, and hopefully I will be able to head back to the same site at some point this weekend, and see if I can get a better shot. Some great alternative perspectives suggested here, just what I was after! I also plan on trying desaturation of the back/foreground as desired to help to make it pop, as this isn't something I have tried before - I have aperture so I'm sure the options are in there somewhere!

Thanks,

James

Posted 1 year ago #
Pierre

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Continuing on what msmoto and adamz have done, I have tried to demonstrate how to implement the various above composition proposals without cropping, a bit too saturated perhaps... Not sure you like the result as taste is so personal. To my eye, there are 3 subjects, the stone wall with its decorations, the path and the reward or promisses at the end of it.

When you go back home and search your memories, what it is about that place that draws your attentions, and what feeling and mood does in brings to your mind? Once you know that you can start searching for method to render it. Remember your first bicycle or Christmas gift, when you were a child? How could you put it in picture? How could you turn the subject in front of you as such a memory?

A camera is a rather stupid and mechanical device that measures light and most of the information is thrown away. It is up to the artist to mine the information in order to express a point of view. This is why we have so many settings and post-processing.
Also, one can throw accessory items in a picture where they are not the subject at all; they may just be attention drawers while the thing being express is something else, not within them.

There are many rules and methods, like the rule of third that are there as a tool but they are not the goal. Me I always try to break free of any training and education but always consider them.

Posted 1 year ago #
tcole1983

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I think some shots don't turn out dramatic or with the effect you want without proper lighting or other post process effects. I think a different lighting situation could make the photo do something more. Either a late afternoon sunset shinning on it or even a nighttime long exposure. Hard to say, but sometimes the timing just isn't there. If it is somewhere that you can go back to or wait around the time of day makes the whole difference sometimes. Even making it black and white or sepia might make it something more "special".

Here is a take on it I did real quick (I added the graininess in post, just to try something else).

Take 2

Posted 1 year ago #
aetas

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I screw this up every time. If it works here is my run at it. I brought down the exposure on the left and right and brought up some exposure on the path. (which I think is interesting. I popped saturation and contrast. Added a little clarity. The res is a little low. I also cropped.

As far as advice I think I would have waited for some better light. If you could not wait the light out maybe try going closer to the trees on the right facing the wall on the left going with a wider shot. Or go tighter and get more of the path.

We are all just showing what we like in the photo though. If you like it be proud;-) Some of my favorite photos are crap. I just remember the moment.

~click click

Posted 1 year ago #
aetas

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Oh and I personally would have shot closer to what taotejared posted, but who wants to see the same thing twice. You need a focus. Thats the best advice I see from everyone. Even a great photo losses interests without it.

Posted 1 year ago #
tcole1983

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I find photography is an art form and besides just taking the picture it is imagining what the picture is going to be. One of my "best" pictures looked horrible in color and isn't a great picture. When I made it black and white it really made it stand out and took much of the distraction out of the picture while keeping the composition I wanted. Many time I have taken a picture I thought would be neat and it only turned out lackluster or on the other hand I will mess with a photo in post and make 2-4 copies of it with different techniques. I have an example I can post when I get home.

Posted 1 year ago #
Yetibuddha

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Dear TheChemist,

A lot of very good, excellent advice here. Post processing, as tcole, aetas, pierre and msmoto and others have demonstrated can help interpret what you saw. The composition is key. its the only thing about the image that cannot be changed, other than some cropping, after the image is captured. So my feeling is that an exciting photo starts with an idea, a story, a subject that you want to communicate. I took a photo workshop several years ago. One of our assignments was to capture some images within a 30 foot diameter that dealt with water in a stream. We had two hours. This assignment forced us to see things at different scales, see patterns, see contrasts, and find subjects. So, I began to see waves, plants, rocks, light in very different ways. I had to ask myself, particularly since a critique was involved, why am I capturing a particular image or creating a particular composition. I had to know this because I would be asked publicly. I would have to defend the composition and my choice of technical stuff (shutter speed, aperture, etc.).

So again, my suggestion is to think about the story you want to tell when you get serious about the photography. When you think about the story, then you think well how can I arrange the camera position relative to the subject, is the light appropriate, what technical things do I need to do, all to capture your idea. Post processing helps then to bring out and more clearly communicate the story you want to tell.

Now, I am only an amateur, so others who make a living from photography may disagree. That's fine. But that is where I start when I am serious about having fun.

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Heck, the photo has a lot of potential.... here is another which is a lot of "effect" but suggests a path into the future....

Very stylized, but some may like it.... not really my cup of tea but again we all have varied tastes. My guess is that everyone on this forum has learned from the same teacher. A lot of trial and mostly error....

Oh, I would shoot the wall on the left as something unto itself... lots to do here.... maybe five or ten shots to pick from later...

Posted 1 year ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi James,

I think the picture is nice, but more to the point, what do you think of it?

In giving assignments to students, lessons to 'turn in' for evaluation, they had to come up with images that told stories - that's sort of the point, in a way, of what image making is - all images come with a back story.

While I don't really want anything from you, I would suggest that you think of the image's story. What it says to you and what you want it to say to others. That will guide you in how you crop it in the camera and post process it, too.

My very best,

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
tcole1983

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Here is the example I was talking about of mine...just to give you an idea.

Posted 1 year ago #