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Nikon D4/D800 issues

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TaoTeJared

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BrucePhotography said:
How to copy settings from a D800 to a D800E - I tried to ask this question before and I was cut off and told to post here. So I will try again.

I was wondering if anyone knew the limitations of saving the settings under store and then moving the CF card to another camera. Specifically from a D800 to a D800E. Does the firmware need to be all the same? The D800E only has L 1.04 but the 800 is at 1.06. A and B are the same. When I put the card from the D800 into the D800E, the camera has grayed out the load. I see NCSETUP8.BIN and NIKON001.DSC. Which one is the setup file that it can't see. Does it need to be in a certain directory? Does it only work with a certain size of CF or SD card?

I would appreciate the help. The manual makes it sounds like it should just work. I agree - but it doesn't.

Thanks for helping

That sounds like a Nikon question. I'm not sure how much difference the "E" adds to the back end processing. Personally I would just put both cameras side by side or write it down and go through everything. What might take you a few hours to figure out if you can copy the settings, could be resolved in just 30mins of doing it by hand. Kind of like renting a back-hoe Post hole digger for one fence post. You could dig it, install it and the concrete set before you could figure out how to get the feet down on the backhoe. :)

Posted 9 months ago #
Geoff_K

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Has anyone seen a D800E listed online recently ? (excluding ebay)

I have been looking regularily since the last time BestBuy had them as available. I'd rather save the $200 in taxes and put it towards a memory card or two.

Amazon and the Nikon store have not shown any as available in a month(?).

Any idea if the US will be getting a shipment soon ?

Posted 9 months ago #
msmoto

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@ Geoff_K Go here and email Helen at Adorama http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=5807&page=7 Call or go to the chat at B & H. Maybe they have an idea as to the availability at present. As some of these larger houses have had cancellations due to no inventory, they may be very friendly to anyone who is willing to order at present.

Posted 9 months ago #
Geoff_K

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Thank you msmoto

Posted 9 months ago #
BrucePhotography

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TaoTeJared said:
That sounds like a Nikon question. I'm not sure how much difference the "E" adds to the back end processing. Personally I would just put both cameras side by side or write it down and go through everything. What might take you a few hours to figure out if you can copy the settings, could be resolved in just 30mins of doing it by hand. Kind of like renting a back-hoe Post hole digger for one fence post. You could dig it, install it and the concrete set before you could figure out how to get the feet down on the backhoe. :)

That, in fact, is what I did. I just thought the capability of copying camera settings from one camera to another is way cool and since I have both cameras and the manual implies that it is a feature, I would just like the feature to work. There are many times that I would like to keep my cameras in synch as far as settings, and this "seemed" like an easy and efficient way to do just that. I suspect that the software looks as the camera model number and sees a difference and that is why the "Load" command is grayed out. As we know both camera are really the same electronically but the names are different. In this way they prevent a D700 settings being loaded into a D800 or vice versa. I've been a programmer and this looks like a bug to me. Just my opinion.

Posted 9 months ago #
Geoff_K

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...

Posted 9 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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Okay,aplogies as it appears I should have posted here and as this is an important issue I shall take the trouble to repost.

My problem as seen in the image below

and seen not only as white dots but saturated as per this image

I have now found some info on this issue which turns out to be noise and happens on long exposures on ALL D800's, by Long I mean as little as 60 seconds to 3 minutes which is not that long.
The only answer seems to be using in camera LENR. The trouble is this means doubling your exposure time and any LE landscape photog will know this is unnacceptable when the light is fast dissapearing.

I found info on this issue on this blog http://scottreither.com/blogwp/2012/07/01/nikon-d800-e-long-exposure-issues-problems-2/#comment-988

well worth a read as this issue needs Nikon to fix it.

Posted 9 months ago #
Eric

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@OnTheRopes - How did you you take the reference image? (just curious)I believe it is possible to take a second image (with the lens cap on) after the light has faded and then do the processing to remove the hot pixels in post. The main concern would be that the camera was roughly the same temperature as when you took the image. I haven't tried it but it seems a fairly straightforward software operation...Is this maybe available in NX2? If not, it seems as if some improvement should be possible in Photoshop. But since I haven't tried it, I may just be blowing smoke.

Posted 9 months ago #
Geoff_K

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I just ruined a scandisk 8gb SD extreme 3 card.

I was moving too quickly and pulled it out of, then put it back into my D800E.

I took some photos and moved the SD card to my computer to look at the images. I guess my excitement made me forget to turn the camera off. When I put the card back into the camera after looking at hte images i got the -E- showing.

The card reads in my computer reader. It formats on the computer. It will not do anything in either my D800E or my D90. They both show as the no memory indicater.

I know I have pulled a SD card on my D90 in the 3 1/2 years I have owned it and not had this problem.

Not a BIG deal as I am going to get larger cards due to the limited number of shots the camera shows for an 8gig card (less than 240 jpegs).

I just wanted to mention this happened so others do not lose a more expensive card. ;-)

Posted 9 months ago #
msmoto

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@ OnTheRopes

What ISO is this? And the aperture, lens, could you post or repost this on a website where we can see all the Exif data? Also, the full image would be nice to see who large these dots are in relationship to the full size image.

I am wondering if the D4 sensor will do the same thing. Thanks

Posted 9 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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Eric said:
@OnTheRopes - How did you you take the reference image? (just curious)I believe it is possible to take a second image (with the lens cap on) after the light has faded and then do the processing to remove the hot pixels in post. The main concern would be that the camera was roughly the same temperature as when you took the image. I haven't tried it but it seems a fairly straightforward software operation...Is this maybe available in NX2? If not, it seems as if some improvement should be possible in Photoshop. But since I haven't tried it, I may just be blowing smoke.

@ eric - The image was taken with a 24-70mm f2.8 at 24mm, ISO 100, f16 for 174 seconds,mounted on a tripod and using a Hightec 10 stop ND filter.
I do believe as you suggest it is possible to create a 'dark frame' and subtract it from the exposure in PP, it appears this is standard procedure of astro photographers.
It is worth reading the blog here http://scottreither.com/blogwp/2012/07/01/nikon-d800-e-long-exposure-issues-problems-2/#comment-988
However one may expect noise on an exposure of several hours but this is on exposures of just 2 minutes. The D800 is supposed to be Nikons most advanced Landscape DSLR, long exposures of 2 - 5 minutes are quite standard for landscape photographers and 2 to 5 minute wait between exposures not good enough.
There is also third party software mentioned in the above blog, but this should surely be fixable by Nikon.
Nikons answer seems to be to use in camera LENR but this is not reallly acceptable

Posted 9 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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msmoto said:
@ OnTheRopes

What ISO is this? And the aperture, lens, could you post or repost this on a website where we can see all the Exif data? Also, the full image would be nice to see who large these dots are in relationship to the full size image.

I am wondering if the D4 sensor will do the same thing. Thanks

@msmoto - ISO and other info in above post, once again if you read the blog it will explain about this issue it is a recognised problem with the D800 and I think has been posted early in this thread with a link but the link is now dead.
I am not aware that this is an issue on the D4
http://scottreither.com/blogwp/2012/07/01/nikon-d800-e-long-exposure-issues-problems-2/#comment-988

Posted 9 months ago #
Eric

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@OnTheRopes - I read your blog and the technique described for astrophotography is what I had in mind. I think that LENR may be a little more accurate, but I understand (and agree with) your frustration with the delay. On the other hand, setting up and using a good dark reference should be better than what you have had on cameras where you did not feel any compensation was necessary.

I think the firmware fix for this is possible, but might require a lot of in-camera memory. I also believe that at some exposure length the hot pixels (or the combination of hot pixels + image) become saturated and then there is little you can do to recover the proper exposure.

I believe that if you are up against a set of hot pixels that are bright enough to saturate at your desired exposure time, then a way around that might be exposure stacking where you set up the camera to take multiple shorter images as opposed to one long one. You can then apply a shorter dark image exposure and pull back the data.

I understand how frustrated you must be and confess to being a bit worried by your experience as I have plans for some 8 stop ND shots myself. Please keep us posted on what you discover.

Posted 9 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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@ eric
The trouble with exposure stacking (at least in my mind)is when you are exposing for effect such as blurring clouds or flattening water, can't see how it would work in that case.
I must admit to being a little afraid of using a dark reference as I do not as yet know how it is done, if it requires a dark shot for every session or exposure or just one for all time? I must make a point in reading up on the technique.

Posted 9 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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I mentioned this issue has been raised before, indeed it was mentioned by NR Admin 4 months ago on page 1 of this thread with a link to the report, this link is now dead so Scott Reithers blog above would seem the best place for now to follow this issue

Posted 9 months ago #
msmoto

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All of this is a bit beyond me, with one exception. I would be the one to leave the little flap open on the viewfinder window...oh, yes!

But, as a similar thought here is a link to some fantastic astrophotography, many of those here already know about. But one can explore. And as I have my 1000X ND filter for my 400mm lens, I just might see what the sun looks like.... in the day.

The link: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/lib/aptree.html

And, now with my super dark filter, I might try some D4 long exposures and see what happens on this sensor.

Posted 9 months ago #
Eric

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@OnTheRopes - So long as the time between exposures is relatively small as compared to the exposure time, I have a hard time getting my head around why the data from a single image would differ too much from that of a series of stacked images. The link posted by SqamishPhoto:
http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/star-trails-amazing-photos-of-the-night-sky.htm
shows stacked images that provide exposures of many hours. I think so long as the exposures are the same duration you'd only need one dark reference.

Not as nice as simply having a clean long exposure, but perhaps a reasonable work around.

Posted 9 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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@ eric - You may be right but I am not sure how effective stacking software would be over multiple exposures at smoothing out a rough sea for instance. Perhaps it would the same as a longer exposure, I do not have the experience to judge but it is worth trial if I can get hold of some stacking software

Posted 8 months ago #
Eric

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@OnTheRopes - As far as I can tell the images should be the same except for the data lost in between exposures. It's a math thing. Step-wise integration is the same as integration of the entire function.

One thing to be aware of is that some stacking software will morph images so that key features are aligned between frames. As an example in the following photo (it was also on PAD) PS aligned not only the objects on the shore, but also the Milky Way... This resulted in unusual star trails as the sky was distorted to keep the Milky Way aligned.

The water in this shot was fairly rough. I believe it was about 40 30 second exposures.

Posted 8 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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@eric - Ok fair enough I guess it would be the same though still quite a hassle for a 4 minute total exposure time and though I will maybe give it a go I don't really want to have to pay for software and don't want to lose sight of the fact that it is really an important issue that Nikon need to address.

Incidentally are you mistaken about those image details as wouldn't 40 x 30 minute exposures put some of those exposures into daylight unless this was taken in Iceland in winter or similar?

Posted 8 months ago #
Eric

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@OnTheRopes -- Oops. I meant 40 x 30 second exposures, or roughly 20 minutes. (I have fixed the original post)

I don't mean to diminish the importance of the issue or disagree that it is important... just trying to help out with a workaround.

Posted 8 months ago #
Geoff_K

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My barely scientific test on my new D800E SN 3004xxx looks good to me, though my Nikon 70-200 VR1 seems to have a slight shift towards backfocus. I had to use -20 (not thrilled at this and am 30% thinking about returning it) Problem is, if the focus is right on this one I am thinking it is my lens that is the problem. I wonder why should I gamble on he next one since this lens may be getting replaced with a longer one in the near future.

I set the yardstick at 45 degrees and placed the target next to 21 on the yardstick. I took 2 shots and used the best.

Here is the image showing all 3 .. left .. center ... right ....

Posted 8 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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@ Geoff - I am no expert and need to check my d800, but looking at your test images I would agree with a little back focus.
If anything I would say that 20 is slightly sharper in the centre image than in the left or right but maybe that's an illusion?

@ eric - I did not think for a second you were trying to diminish the importance and I appreciate your helpful input. So thank you.

Posted 8 months ago #
Geoff_K

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OnTheRopes:

I am less than thrilled as I continue to check my lenses and so far 3 needed -20 to get close.

I am looking at other test targets and taking much more care to align the camera with the target. IF all/most of my lenses take -20 I will likely send it back to the Nikon store (and wait 2-4 weeks for the refund .. bah !)

I am getting string to check to see that my angles and elevation are correct, though I am very certain what I initially did worked well enough. I am hoping I can find where I made an error as I would rather HAVE the camera than wait days/weeks ? for another to be available.

I am REALLY hoping I made an error and will happily eat crow. ;- )

Posted 8 months ago #
parke1953

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How far back where you from the yardstick.

Posted 8 months ago #