where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
I ask because after waiting with no response from Adorama, thinking of changing vendors and order to D800E. Doubt Moire and other artifacts would really EVER affect my shooting. I don't do weddings, or fabric advertisements, and other subjects that are considered antagonist for Anti-Aliasing filter removal.
Anyway, give me your thoughts. Thanks
It's my understanding that, in general, the line for the 800E is proportionally longer than the line for the 800. Speculating of course, but as I hear it, 800E will make up ~5-10% of the total 800/800E production, but 800E ~15% of the pre-orders.
If one makes a decision on buying a camera as expensive as a D800/e, based not on what is the best solution for the task at hand, but instead on the availability of a "new" product, it will no doubt come back to haunt them. I do not know if anyone has experience with these large mega pixel sensors without the AA in the real world, but it could be that moire will show up in some of the least expected situations. Like bricks in a distant building. Or any repetitive pattern from a distance. And if I had purchased a D800E, when I had first decided on the D800, and this happened even once, I think it would be very disappointing. Just wait the wait. I waited over a year for NIKON to finally introduce the D4 when I had decided to purchase a Pro body. If I had known the wait, I might have gone for a D3s. But, in late 2010, the D4 was "just around the corner". And, having it in hand, after more than a year wait, i am very happy I waited.
Someone a little over anxious?
I don't get how that would be settling. I'll go out on a limb and say the OP like shooting birds. Moire artifacts will show up in feathers and can be really, really bad. I have seen some Leica M9 bird shots that are wonderful except for the awful moire in the feathers that cause them to be throw-a ways.
If you can only "doubt" that moire will show up, then you should NOT get the 800e.
You need to know this for sure otherwise that is one hell of a $3,500 mistake. Many, many people are going to screw up on this one.
If there are repeating patters or lines, Moire will show up. To what extent, depends on the subject.
How Software can handle it, that will be another matter. Some say "it's easy" - which in my experience = "There is a setting in PS - so it will work." I have seen enough M9 images to know the difference and the "software" solution just blurs out the moire which removes all the detail you bought the camera for in the first place.
I wonder if one can get a filter to put on their lens that would simulate an AA filter. That way if you thought you might get moire you use the filter and if you are certain it would not be an issue you take it off.
IndyGeoff said:
I wonder if one can get a filter to put on their lens that would simulate an AA filter. That way if you thought you might get moire you use the filter and if you are certain it would not be an issue you take it off.
This is a great idea, but as the problem is occurring in how the sensor interprets the image data, and at a microscopic level, I cannot imagine how one could alter the image at the level of the lens as the light comes through. Possibly polarizing the image could do something. Maybe someone has done this.
However, it does seem possible at some point in the future to have a filter in place of the AA filter which would be electronically altered to function as an AA filter or as a simple pass through. This would be a great solution as the sensors increase in their effective pixel numbers and we see resolution go higher and higher, the difference between having an AA filter and not having one may become more important.
It's possible to design an extra AA filter that fits into the mirror box. For an example look at Mosaic Engineering's VAF-5D2 filter (for the Canon 5dmk2). One would have to be specifically designed for the D800/E.
However I think such a filter would only be good for relatively low resolutions (e.g. for video), as it would probably noticeably degrade a high-res still image.
Mosaic Engineering has those filters as well. I'm not sure how well they work though on high res shooting.
The more I thought about being only with a D800e the more I realized how much I want to keep my D700 along with it. And the more I think about it the more appealing the idea becomes. Where one falters the other will excel. It solves any dilemas like the ones being discussed in this thread and when you consider the rather exclusive nature of the camera the more it seems like its aimed at people who are definitely going to own two or more bodies, and thus won't really need to worry about any potential limitations. Now I just have to save another thousand and I can realize this grand plan. :]
msmoto said:
If one makes a decision on buying a camera as expensive as a D800/e, based not on what is the best solution for the task at hand, but instead on the availability of a "new" product, it will no doubt come back to haunt them.
Plus 1000. Done it in the past, ALWAYS regretted it.
Moire can be reduced in PP using the brush in LR4
So if you only have a few shots, with a Moire pattern to be retouched, then the E should not be a problem
but using the brush on 1000 images might be a pain
I'm just curious if an in-camera software option would be to run a low-pass 3x3 kernel over the image as a antialiasing (noise reduction) function. Is this something that firmware could not address in the future? Not nearly the same as an OLPF, but perhaps a good band aide for those situations when you have the e model out shooting and want to capture something in camera that can be used without post-processing later?
Just an idea.
-Andy
You must log in to post.
