D400 - Price aside, what will make you buy it over the D800? « Nikon Rumors Forum

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D400 - Price aside, what will make you buy it over the D800?

(51 posts) (16 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by TriShooter
  • Latest reply from msmoto
  • Related Topics:
    1. Should I Buy A D7000, D400 Or A D4, Or Wait For The D800?
    2. My D400 wishlist - yes growing impatient!
    3. D800 Discussion Thread
    4. Running out of patience waiting for D400?
    5. Wedding Photographer Upgrading Camera - D800 or D4 or D3s

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  • D400
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  1. jonnyapple

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    You could just shoot with what you've got now instead of waiting.

    Yesterday I was shooting my D7000 and just marveling as I thought about what it was like to shoot weddings with the D100. You had to absolutely nail exposure or the photo was bound for the trash bin. But if you got it right the images look great as an 11x14" print. 6MP (and really bad MP by today's standards) were enough for us then because it's all we had.

    I'd never go back because the extra forgiveness of the D7000's dynamic range makes for a better life. But if I'm honest, the D90 gave me similar performance at $400 lower price. If image quality was the only concern, it would have been silly to upgrade from the D90 (and that's the closest you'll ever hear me come to saying I have buyer's remorse for buying the D7000—for the record, I have never regretted a camera purchase).

    In the end, upgrade decisions are (or should be) based on an extremely complicated and personal analysis and, like TTJ said above, until more is known about a possible D400 it's really hard to discuss the original topic of this thread.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. msmoto

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    Rx4Photo said:
    I daresay that Joe McNally probably could have taken the same images in the Preservation Hall with a D7000 and made them look as good as with the D4 given similar lighting. I mean, look at Bland's recent shot on the PAD thread.

    I don't want to break the bank (or P.O. my wife); I just want to take the best images possible for Me. So we'll have to wait to see what that sensor in the D400 can do.

    I certainly agree with the idea what we have is very very good. Bland does an exceptional job with the D90 and mine is a great camera. But when Rockefeller was asked once "How much is enough?", has response was "Always a little more than one has." Or something to that effect.

    Well these cameras are kinda like that..... from my D70 to D70s to D200 to D90 to etc. But if we can have it, and we can use it (always a question in my mind) then let's go for it. Everyone on this forum seems to have the ability to produce some fantastic shots. And, my guess is the D400 will be a super camera, better than the D90 by a long shot. Will the photos look different? I suppose in the color area the depth/ subtleties/ tonal range, these will be slightly richer and that is the primary issue.

    But then again we look at Bland's PAD photo and it is hard to improve on....

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. TriShooter

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    donaldejose said:
    Almost all the images we actually view on our computers or in prints from our inkjet printers are comprise of about 2 megapixels downsized from the original file. Thus, as to what "we see" the D400 should be more than enough if it has good clean high ISO and good IQ at low ISO. When you spend twice as much as a D7000 to get all those extra pixels, you just lose them in translation anyway. Most images in the PAD thread are probably displayed at 1 megapixel size. You won't see the difference in reasonable light.

    I agree with you in general terms, but there will also be a difference in the feel of the camera, the location of the controls, and the tracking. The other difference is that pixels give more detail and the ability to crop more without losing as much detail when a shot is a short on focal length.

    I most of us would go bonkers over a D4 body on the D400 with the APS-C sensor, and the D4 feature set. Nikon could probably reduce their manufacturing cost significantly if they used the same body style. I think it would also be a smart move on their part from the standpoint of making it easier for people to move up to the D4 as they retire. I promise not to hold my breath on this happening. lol.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. donaldejose

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    The price difference between FX and DX seems to be about $1,000. So Nikon has to take a lot more out of the D4 than just the FX sensor before it could insert a DX sensor and sell that D4 body with DX sensor as the D400. What are the other costs? Weathersealing? Connectivity? Polycarbinate case rather than magnesium case? How much additional cost could be taken out of that D4 $6,000 price. I would like to see it but doubt Nikon could do it at the price point needed for the D400.

    Now take the D800 for $3,000. Replace the FX sensor with a DX sensor and save $1,000. Now you have a $2.000 D400. That is much easier to do. Add a battery grip for $300 and you have a $2,300 camera.

    So odds are very high that the D400 will be a DX sensored D800 like the D300s was a DX sensored D700.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. PB PM

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    The biggest cost difference comes in the electronics. Body wise the D300 and D700 were almost identical, yet the price was $1000 different. Throw the grip on the D300 or D700 and you basically have a D3 sized body. The real cost of the D3/D4 comes in terms of the buffer (more fast memory required), dual high end card slots, faster processor, higher end circuit boards, more powerful focusing motor, higher end shutter mechanism etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. settle

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    The D800/e is a 15.4mp DX machine. I see no reason to buy any DX camera.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. TriShooter

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    settle that was the reason I started this thread; the 800E makes it hard to not go for both formats in one camera. I was looking for reasons not to buy the 800E.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. scoobysmak

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    I would like to see the 800E in dx mode and try to get moire patterns. Technically it should be the same as using the full sensor but you never know.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. PB PM

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    settle said:
    The D800/e is a 15.4mp DX machine. I see no reason to buy any DX camera.

    Unless you don't have $2999 to spend on a camera body... which is why most people go DX in the first place.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. spraynpray

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    donaldejose said:
    Now take the D800 for $3,000. Replace the FX sensor with a DX sensor and save $1,000. Now you have a $2.000 D400.

    So you are saying that the FX sensor costs $1000 more than the DX sensor. Personally I very much doubt it is that simple to find $1000 difference in just the sensor.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. msmoto

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    spraynpray said:
    So you are saying that the FX sensor costs $1000 more than the DX sensor. Personally I very much doubt it is that simple to find $1000 difference in just the sensor.

    Mmmm.... interesting, and I agree... must be the software, buffer size, mirror mechanics (moves less or is smaller in a DX camera I suspect) but otherwise is identical. But, I would also suspect the D400 will shoot as high as 8 or 9 FPS, while the D800 is only at 5FPS in DX mode. The D300s now will go to 7 FPS, thus an improvement might be made.

    Well, the difference between a D400 and a D800 now appears to be almost like the D400 will be an alternative or adjunct to the D4. Same kind of performance in a less expensive package with a smaller sensor. And, the D800 in DX mode will not match this performance.

    And, the $1000 difference, well this is large if one does not have it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. donaldejose

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    Yes, I said "sensor" in a shorthand way to include the associated hardware and software differences between DX and FX. Look at the price of a D300s ($1,800) and a D700 ($3,000 at introduction and dropped to $2,700). You see basically a $1,000 difference. The D300 and the D700 have essentially identical bodies and take the same battery grip. The price difference of $1.000 is the "FX premium" or the additional cost of putting FX into the body rather than DX. Of course, this is all rounded off and shorthand but that is where I get my $1,000 figure for using an FX sensor rather than using a DX sensor.

    I would like to see a D400 with a built in battery grip like the D4 but sized like the D7000. However, that means Nikon has to create a new body. Much more likely is a D400 which shares the same body as the D800 but just uses DX sensor and associated DX items for lower cost. that is what Nikon did the last time with the D300 and the D700.

    So the real question this year is what can Nikon do with a current "top of the line DX sensor?" How much better a sensor than the one in the D7000 can they produce now? That sensor technology will be the key to the D400 performance. Let's hope for the best: D4 speed and noise ability in a DX sensor size. For amateurs DX will be "good enough" for our needs. We aren't going to be making many huge prints.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. spraynpray

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    donaldejose said:
    How much better a sensor than the one in the D7000 can they produce now?

    Good question and one I can't wait to find the answer to. I would be happy to have a D7000 but the tease of a possible further jump is too good to pass up. I see these low light D7000 shots on the PAD and think gah.....!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. settle

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    TriShooter said:
    settle that was the reason I started this thread; the 800E makes it hard to not go for both formats in one camera. I was looking for reasons not to buy the 800E.

    I guess I wasn't clear. My answer to the question in the title is "Nothing".

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. kyoshinikon

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    ^^^ Ditto

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. spraynpray

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    FXing snobs. ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. TriShooter

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    I think settle said it all ;D - "nothing!"

    lol.spraynpray, you are acting a little but like one of those DX snobs! rofl ;D

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. PB PM

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    donaldejose said:
    I would like to see a D400 with a built in battery grip like the D4 but sized like the D7000.

    Yikes no. The whole point of the higher end bodies is to have a comfortable grip for extended use, which the D7000 lacks. I highly suspect that the D400 will use a similar body to that of the D800, just slightly shorter, due to the smaller pentaprism.

    BTW the D700's body is actually slightly smaller than the D300, width wise (thus the smaller top LCD), but is taller thanks to the FX pentaprism. I hope the grip of the D400 is about the same as the D700, anything smaller and you pinch your fingers when using good glass (non DX kit lenses and the 18-200).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. DaveyJ

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    The D400 is what many consumers want. Nikon has recently been chasing the FX market. We just sold our D700 as it was getting so little use. In terms of set up I like our D300 best. The D90 is wonderful, the D7000 is better BUT WHERE ARE THE ANNOUNCEMENTS FOR THE D400????

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. tcole1983

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    I will be disappointed if they don't release a D400. I just don't like the D7000 for some reason. The D300s is more like a DX version of the D700, but the D7000 is more like a D90 and I think it would leave a gap (not to mention I want a D400 and not a D7100 :). It would be nice to have the 51 point AF system and some of the similar pro features that the D300/D300s had compared to the D7000.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. spraynpray

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    How about we scweam and scweam and scweam until they make a D400? ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Pedalman

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    What would make me buy the D400,?? ( Im very demanding ! lol. ) Im a wildlife photographer so I would love a DX body with minimum 24mp (or more) with minimum 8fps ,(10fps would be a dream) , I would willingly pay D3 money without hesitation for such a camera made specifically for wildlife and sport. I pray a lot to the Nikon God for such a camera.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  23. DaveyJ

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    This is one of NRs best topics ever I believe. I myself see HUGE advantages in DX Nikon DSLRs. I owned a D700. It was a great camera. However I always found myself, and my son and grandson picking up the DX cameras over the D700 with the bigger lens, no video, etc. Since again a big screen HD TV and any other playback system I know uses about 2 megapixels and really discards the rest.....the D800 starts having less appeal. I am VERY impressed with the D800 so do not get me wrong here. I would never buy a D800 though to use in DX mode. MANY good posts here. The price of the D400 though is going to be pretty high.

    The D7000 is being repeatedly bought as a great bang for the buck and is bringing a lot of amateurs from the first time to DSLRs. Also bringing people for the first time to Nikon. So the NEED for Nikon to refresh their DX line is very heavy. Nikon marketing seems to have made a strategic gamble here that buyers would switch almost automatically to FX. For those who are totally sold on FX versus DX I wonder how that conclusion was formed. I also totally wonder how anyone, even our wonderful msmoto would write how can yo compare 2 1/4 versus 4x5. As one who specialized in larger formats for years I strongly object. Cameras are tools. When we pick an excavator to do a job we are always aware that the smaller rig will ALWAYS leave less impact. However given a larger scale project the bigger rig might be required. Do not conclude bigger cameras are always better. What are you buying a camera for. For me it sure as hell is NOT to impress anyone. If your target is to put two megapixels on a screen the bigger glass and bigger bodies may be a liability. i am always surprised by those whose hands cramp on a D7000 but for darn sure that MUST be considered by NIKON designers. The $1,000 difference in camera bodies is just the beginning. Then start adding lens costs. the $1,000 difference could well become a $5,000 difference.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  24. donaldejose

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    I believe Nikon is moving out the last of the D7000 stock with sale prices because the D7200 and D400 will soon be here. If possible, the D7200 will be released before Christmas so as to capture some of those sales. The D400 is less likely to be a Christmas gift because it is a professional tool (unless you buy it for yourself!) so there will be no push for a pre-Christmas release of that body.

    When they finally arrive, they will be fantastic and 90% of us on NR will not need any larger, more expensive, higher-megapixel DSLRs for the photos we produce and display. Very, very few of us will have any legitimate need to spend more than $2,000 on a Nikon body.

    But we will still lust after those high-end FX bodies!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  25. sevencrossing

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    Davey said:

    ....... The price of the D400 though is going to be pretty high.

    The D7000 is being repeatedly bought as a great bang for the buck and is bringing a lot of amateurs from the first time to DSLRs........

    The very big advantage of DX is price

    and yes I can see the market for a D7200

    If Nikon did make a D400, conforming to the wish list of this forum, it is likely to be quite expensive and for that reason of very limited appeal and not top of Nikon's priorities

    Apart from the modified S3, Nikon never made any half frame cameras

    35 mm , full frame, FX has been popular among professionals for since Oskar Barnack and Ernst Leitz introduced the Leica I in 1925 and Fx will remain the weapon of choice, of professionals, for a long time to come. Dx will remain popular with consumers because of price

    Posted 6 months ago #

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