where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
TaoTeJared said:
The Canon 7d also came out a year after Nikon's. Canon and Nikon rarely (except pro bodies) come out within the same year. Usually they are a year apart trading the spot for the "new tech" slot. With the flooding and the earthquake, this may have changed the release schedules though.
Wrong, the D300s (July 2009) and EOS 7D (Sept 2009) came out just over a month apart. In addition the D7000 and 60D were both released in September 2010.
PB PM said:
Wrong, the D300s (July 2009) and EOS 7D (Sept 2009) came out just over a month apart. In addition the D7000 and 60D were both released in September 2010.
If you read upward I was referencing the D300 (Aug-2007) - The 7d almost came two years afterwords. If you remember the 7d was unexpected and has no previous time frame to go off of. You may also recall the D300s was the first in that body line to have a mid-stream update - to add video which was unexpected as well.
When trying to reference new body designs, Nikon's release schedule holds true to the main releases as the mid-cycle updates are few, and are usually to fix something or keep an edge with competition.
Dodging said:
ISO expandable to 50 would also be on my wishlist
I suppose the ISO 50 is nice, but the D400 is, I think, going to be more of a "action/sports" body like the D4. The other DX bodies with 24MP will possibly have the lower ISO. Of course, there are those situations when one wants the super drama of a panned super tele shot at 1/15th sec, where the ISO has to be extremely low to get down to 1/15th sec. On the other hand, the expanded ISO is, as I understand it, ISO 100 at the sensor, which is then corrected by the software in the camera to reduce the recorded exposure to ISO 50. And, one can shoot at ISO 100, over exposing the scene by one f/stop, then post process. Works unless shooting white in sunlight.
OK, as we are in the fantasy phase of the D400, let's just ask for the ISO 50. And ISO 25,000.... why not?
I personally don't understand the "low iso" or anything below 200. I just use a ND filter if I need to drop the shutter down.
I would rather have the native iso (lowest noise) higher than lower, which correlates to lower noise creeping in later at higher isos. I have seen also the image are not as great on the "expanding" down ISOs.
It seems most are creating a wish list off of their D7000 wants rather than the previous D300 as the D300 actually had what most want.
My small wish list:
-New AF and metering system (from D800/D4).
IQ at iso 3200 always usable, 6400 good enough for B/W.
****(This would equate to a DXO mark on the "sports" iso setting of around iso 2000).
-Ability for Wifi connections.
-Auto ISO to move with Lens selection.
-Custom settings expanded to hold all settings.
Most of what everyone else's has said the wanted I agree with but was in the D300 to begin with.
The D4 was a modest MP upgrade, I actually wish the D400 will be as well and focus on a sensor with really low noise and much more dynamic range (color) at High ISOs. Anything above iso 800 on the D300, D7000 and even the D700, the colors are washed out more than one would hope for. With the D800's 36mp whopper sensor, I think Nikon could stop chasing resolution with the other cameras and focus on better IQ across higher ISOs.
TaoTeJared said:
I personally don't understand the "low iso" or anything below 200. I just use a ND filter if I need to drop the shutter down.I would rather have the native iso (lowest noise) higher than lower, which correlates to lower noise creeping in later at higher isos. I have seen also the image are not as great on the "expanding" down ISOs.
Posting just so NIKON does not think we have gone to sleep on the D400 thread.... I agree with you Tao.... my needs are in having the best quality at ISO's way up there. My post on PAD today is ISO 1400, shooting planes in the sky at 1/1000 @ f/11. And, minimal noise as I can see it. Hopefully NIKON is getting the D400 together and it will be everything we hoped for. A DX "Sports" camera.
TaoTeJared said:
I personally don't understand the "low iso" or anything below 200. I just use a ND filter if I need to drop the shutter down.
Should've added that I want a 'working' ISO 50 that gives proper image quality - I've also noticed the same on my D300s that images at ISO200 are better than at the expanded ISO 100. Reason why I want it is that whenever I shoot motorsports I always shoot on Shutter priority at anything between 1/250 and 1/80, ISO 200. Only thing is in broad daylight the aperture then generally goes far too small. Not what I want as the background becomes a mess.
I don't like using ND filters as in my experience it robs a bit of the IQ (probably was just a crap filter) . Usually I only use a polarizer so that you can still see the driver through the screen, and that only drops it by about a half-stop in exposure.
We need some good intel! Anybody have any inside info? Please! Admin...anything?
Got to hand it to Nikon as a company. They sure don't leak much. In fact, the company is more waterproof than their cameras.
I am wondering, how would the D400 stand up to the D600 in terms of pricing?
Nikon will probably (so it seems momentarily, but could not be true) market the D600 as an entry level FX and market the D400 as an upper level DX. Is this correct? What would this on the price ladder? Would the D600 price be lower than that of the D400 because Nikon want to grow the FX market?
I don't know, just thinking out loud, but I would be very interested in your (more experienced) point of views.
It depends on how you think Nikon sees the DX vs FX line up. I think the DX and FX are totally different lineups.. almost like from different companies one only with FX cameras and the other only with DX cameras. So I believe that the low end FX could well be below or the same price as the High end DX. as the pricing is/should be independent of each other .. just like the high end P&S vs the low end DX.
@heartyfisher
Agree! The D400 should, at least I hope, be a pro DX body with as many features as the D4 one can put on a small body. Price...$2000-2200. Higher than a D600, and entirely different camera.
Gosh, and I had predicted yesterday.... but this IS the D400 thread.
this rumour mill is torturing me.
My D90 is rough as old boots, but Don't need the D800(or the permission to spend :) )
If there was a sensible tweak to the D700 then I may jump to FF,
but, in my heart of hearts I am longing for the D400. I think it's going to be pitched where I need it to be - the best DX on the market.
But I can't hold out much longer.
Low ISO increases dynamic range and color sensitivity while decreasing noise. ND filter on the other hand decreases sharpness.
Peely22 said:
True in a way, so the guessing-mill is torture. D7x00 imminent, D300s 3years old, D800 2x £$ and, D600 lacking in essentials - my D90 has to hang on until something good breaks!!
I am kind of in the same position as you .. ( well maybe you are having it worse :-) lol! ) but I have been waiting on the D400 for over 3 years.. been teased to death with the D300s then the D7000 .. and .... still nothing !!! I may jump ship again into the arms of Fuji.. I have the S5pro and its been really good to me. and that new X-Pro1 sure is sweet! only problem is it doesnt work with my lenses like the S5pro did.. :-( ..
heartyfisher said:
I am kind of in the same position as you .. ( well maybe you are having it worse :-) lol! ) but I have been waiting on the D400 for over 3 years.. been teased to death with the D300s then the D7000 .. and .... still nothing !!! I may jump ship again into the arms of Fuji.. I have the S5pro and its been really good to me. and that new X-Pro1 sure is sweet! only problem is it doesnt work with my lenses like the S5pro did.. :-( ..
Same boat but in actualization I have been with my D300 for almost 5 years (11/2007). When the high end digi cams catch up - it's time to move for sure. D7000 didn't impress me - I buy features over sensors and it fell short.
Interesting to see Sony is using it's 16mp sensor again (new one but same MP) and it's FX 24mp size again. Maybe we could see a 16mp High ISO beast of a D400. I could deal with that.
I would not say the d7100 is imminent - still a ways off for that one.
Owing two D7000s and one D300 I agree with TaoTeJared. Our problem is in what we do video is essential also. We have about 18 video cameras. But we are heading more towards DSLR video over traditional camcorders. The D800 looks pretty good. BUT our D700 did not get used as much as our D90 and even a D200.
THE reason I check out Nikon Rumors every time I get on the Internet is to check about D400. Which is lost in the Nikon shuffle. I think Nikon has made a serious blunder here. The DEMAND (=SALES) is there. They have a working prototype. But due to production difficulties and other objectives that one camera is getting held up. Projects like Nikon 1 and better Coolpix's seem to win out when D400 is what many want. I also think the 36 mp is a camera I do NOT want. The photographers who would be D400 BUYERS know the deal. I myself am not all that interested in a D7100. Yes Expeed 3 processor etc., would help but the more pro features on the D300 and the D300s are what I need and am ready to buy .PLUS the other improvements like in dynamic range, etc.
In frustration, I remain a waiting aficionado, wanting something I have on idea when it will appear. And, for old folks this waiting stuff is less fun than if you are say a bit younger (No idea what a NIKON F is) (ha, ha, ha)
I am also one who wants the features of a pro camera in a DX body. However, i can only go with what NIKON thinks is a salable item. And if Coolpicks (sic) trumps the D400, I have to live with it....
Now I am guessing June 1, 2012 for the announcement as I have no idea what is going on.....
I would like to at least hear something about a replacement DX body whether it be the D7100 or D400...whatever it might be called. Seems very strange the D300S will be going on 4 years without an update and the D3000 line will have been updated twice in that time frame :(
tcole1983 said:
Seems very strange the D300S will be going on 4 years without an update and the D3000 line will have been updated twice in that time frame :(
That is actually the norm. Consumer levels have always had two updates in the time the D300 line exists. With the speed of video advancements, that will probably continue.
I'm waiting to see what the specs are so I can decide what to do. I really do like this series of camera though. If it doesn't happen soon, I'm not sure what I will do.
My D400 wish list has only a few things (some of which should have been included in the D300 from the beginning) added to the D300s:
No excuse not to include in a pro DX camera:
1. Pro finder threaded for accessories - that slip-off thing is a real pain.
2. Eyepiece shutter (or AE system immune to viewfinder light). AE in time lapse/remote without duct tape! I have bought three of those little covers. Anybody seen them?
3. Meter mode control with lock.
4. c/s/m mode control lock or AF/MF with AF mode per D800. I admit it. I'm a klutz.
The other things:
5. At least D300 frame rate if the sensor is 24 mp, which I'd prefer.
6. At least D300s frame rate if the sensor is 16 mp. (leaves room for a D400x with 32mp sensor)
7. Really nice ISO 1600, pretty good 3200.
8. WiFi for remote operation, built-in, reasonably-priced compact solidly-mounted accessory or perhaps with GPS in portrait/battery grip.
9. f/8 aperture metering system of the new FX cameras.
10. USB 3 (goes without saying)
11. XQD + SD card slots.
To round out the DX system:
12. DX WIDE LENSES. At least two from this list at intro, 1 a year to follow: 35mm f/1.2, 24mm f/1.4, 18mm or 16mm f/1.8, 12mm f/2.8, 8mm f/4 (or 8-16 zoom), 16mm f/4 PC-E.
13. 50-135mm f/2.8 AF-S VR.
14. 60mm f/1.8 or f/1.4 DX portrait lens.
Would be nice items:
15. Electronic shutter option with EVF overlay in finder.
16. Control illumination (red, please) per D4 would be nice (but I don't expect it).
17. User-interchangeable finder screens with one that provides true DOF view and visual focusing of lenses faster than f/2.8.
And don't mess too much with the basic size/shape/ergonomics. This range of cameras works great in the hand. I think no D4-style joysticks - anybody tried that yet and like it? I'm suspicious.
OK, now I am going to wish for a "DX" D4, called D400... almost all the features but a 16Mp sensor with the high ISO, high FPS as the D4. And for less than $2200.
I also wish for a D400 which is a "mini-D4" or "D4 lite" with most of the high ISO and high speed and built in grip features of a D4 except in DX format and maybe with a higher mp sensor than 16 mb (maybe 24 - 50% greater than the D7000 like the D4 was 50% greater mp than the D3) and for a price half that of a D4! If I can get everything expect for the built in grip I will take it and buy the battery grip separately. In my opinion, the D400 should be as professional as the D4 but just in DX format for a much, much lower price point. We will see . . . . . soon I hope!
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