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heartyfisher

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I think there will be more than one person like your friend.. and yes a D800 is nice and all.. but a 1.2 crop camera would be half the price of a D800/D800E.

I am all for getting the gear to ft the function. If I absolutely needed a 24 1.4 and a FF camera I would get it. Many of my friends have indeed upgraded to a D600. especially those that like to take portraits and fashion. They already had the 70-200 and that was their main lens. so its a no brainier upgrade. (just curios why a 24 F1.4 is so essential for your friend, I am guessing weddings?)

For the rest of us guys who struggled with the minister of finance to get the D7000 (not to suggest it was not fun encounters) a D800 would be impossible. But, a D800 like DX camera would be a reachable compromise and if it had a 1.2 crop that would increase the desire even more.. well worth a few more dishes done, lawn mowing and rubbish taking, maybe even a soppy movie or 2 :-( . (Note you still need to do the soppy stuff even after you get the D400 ! this is for the next piece of gear. say a 24 1.4 ! )

Posted 6 months ago #
scoobysmak

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As I don't think a 1.2 crop sensor will appear and I don't want it to either. This is based all on my needs so I know my opinion won't work for everyone. I have a D700 so I am already in the FF world, I have a D7000 so I have the DX format covered for now camera wise (I would like a D800 but my D700 works fine, its more gear envy than a need. I can't print anything wider than 17" at home anyway, just might make me take more time to compose my shot and not have a cropping festival every outing).

I really want the D400 in a 1.5 crop factor for reach. My D7000 works great but hate the controls and its a bit small for my hands. I would not miss as many shots if I had the layout of my D700. Say you had a once in a life time trip but needed something in the 600mm range for this. With the current crop sensor you could take a 300mm F4, 1.4 TC-E, and a D7000. The FX equivalant is 630mm F5.6 setup, to get this with a 1.2 crop sensor add up the cost for the cheapest 600mm setup. Unless something is new that I don't know of, to get to 600mm F5.6 with a 1.2 crop sensor you need to start with a 400mm lens. The cheapest Nikon lens that goes to 400mm and can use a teleconverter is the 200-400mm zoom, at $6750 on todays market this is not cheap. You could by more than 2 complete setups for less than this one lens and you would still need a camera.

As I said, this is my opinion and the reason I would get a D400 if its a 1.5 DX crop sensor. I will say if the D400 has 6 fps or less and doesn't have more than say 18 MP then I would just get a D800 and crop to my hearts content.

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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heartyfisher said:
but a 1.2 crop camera would be half the price of a D800/D800E.

????

This would make it cheaper than the D300s

I really don't think putter a slightly smaller sensor is going to make that much difference

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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Ok.. I see from my other thread that I sometimes am not too clear ;-) well maybe a bit more than sometimes :-).

1) the 1.2 Crop sensor may not be 1 camera. there could be 2. One with the same build and features as the D600(lets call it the DXF7000. the other with the equivalent to the D800/E. Lets call that the DXF400.
1.1) For price DXF7000 would be about 1/3 the way between the D7000 and the D600. Current price for the D7000 is about 700 to 900 current price for the D600 is about 1800-2100. So the price of a DXF7000 would be about about 1000 to 1400.
1.2) Price of the DXF400 would be about 1/3 the way between the D300S and the D800. D300S =1400 to 1600, D800E about 2800-3300, So DXF400 about 1800-2100.

Conclusion. - the DFX7000 would be approximately 1/3 the price of a D800E and the DFX400 about 2/3 of the D800E so that is why I stated that the DFX cameras being Half the price of the D800/E. Sorry for being so fuzzy . :-)

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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@ scoobysmak
"I really want the D400 in a 1.5 crop factor for reach." As suggested before the theoretical DXF400 would have 25MP and a DX crop of about 16-17MP in DX mode and about 17-18MP in 5:4 crop mode. So you can still do every thing you can with the D7000 with some added flexibility of the 5:4 crop mode and all the D800 controls.

Its also conceivable that the DXF400 could run at 5FPS(like the D800 in 1.2 mode) and maybe 6FP in DX crop mode.

Posted 6 months ago #
Godless

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Its also conceivable that the D400 could run at 5FPS

Bah. Minimum 8 to 10 FPS or the D400 stays in the store.

That is, if there´s ever going to be one.

Posted 6 months ago #
Kuv

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I've seen a few D800 offers at $2300. Even refurbished, it's starting to look very tasty compared to a non-existent ~$2k D400.

Posted 6 months ago #
shutterdancer

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It looks as though Nikon's not so subtle push of its user base towards the adoption of FX , whether we wanted to head in that direction or not, isn't working out so well.With discounts on both the D800 and D600,FX inventory seems to be gathering dust on the shelves.I think that a D400 with the proper specs would be selling by the truckload about now,with no discounts needed to speed up the process!

All of you FX fans.....now is your time.Buy,live long,and be happy.As a DX fan,I can only hope that our very long wait will produce a superior product ;-)

Posted 6 months ago #
tsitalon1

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Sorry, just couldn't stand to have this thread on page two of the forum. :)

Posted 6 months ago #
tsitalon1

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Seriously though, I'm tempted by the refurb d800 on Adorama for $2300, just can't justify it with all the cost of FX lenses.

Any FX sub for my 17-70 Sigma 2.8-4 DX lens less than $1k?

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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I have been thinking of getting that lens. Do you have the OS version ?

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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The older 28-105mm F3.5-4.5D IF is close in terms of range, and can be had (used only) for under $300. I doubt it has the capabilities to make full use of the D800's resolution though.

As for the D400, lets step back from what users want from the camera, and look at what could be considered realistic (based on several years worth of rumors, rather than fantasy). To me the following is realistic:

D300s type body (more like the D800 though)
24MP 1.5x Crop (DX) sensor, native ISO 100-6400
DX version of the D4/D800's 51 point AF system
6FPS, or 8 with the grip.
15 frame, (RAW), buffer
1 CF, 1 SDXC slot
Manual video controls
Mic in and headphone out, HDMI out (like D4/D800)
Compatible with wireless transmitter (same as the D4/D800?)
All the other modern stuff in Nikon pro bodies

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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"(based on several years worth of rumors, rather than fantasy)"
LOL ! so funny on so many levels .. good one !

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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Considering how reliable the sources of Admins "rumours" have been the last few years, it's closer to reality than your pipe dream 1.2 crop camera.

Posted 6 months ago #
msmoto

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It is my thinking that if the D400 or whatever they call it, does not have native 12,800 ISO, it will be dead in the water. I think it will be about the same price as the D600, so it will have to have some distinct advantage. And for the "long reach" crowd, the high native ISO, interprets into low noise at the slightly lower high ISO settings, e.g, 3200, 6400.

The rest of the specs will have to be similar to the D300s as far as functions, and the sensor may be less than 24 MP. To get the high ISO on a DX sensor the MP have to be fairly large. And the 24 MP on a DX sensor is like a 54 MP FX sensor as there is 2.25 times the area on a FX vs DX sensor. So, even if they "hopped up" the D800 sensor to native ISO of 12,800 the size would be 16 MP. How interesting that the sensor of a D3 was 12. MP and the D300s is 12.3 MP....

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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PB PM said:
Considering how reliable the sources of Admins "rumours" have been the last few years,

any one still waiting for the D700s

Posted 6 months ago #
tsitalon1

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PB PM said:
The older 28-105mm F3.5-4.5D IF is close in terms of range, and can be had (used only) for under $300. I doubt it has the capabilities to make full use of the D800's resolution though.

As for the D400, lets step back from what users want from the camera, and look at what could be considered realistic (based on several years worth of rumors, rather than fantasy). To me the following is realistic:

D300s type body (more like the D800 though)
24MP 1.5x Crop (DX) sensor, native ISO 100-6400
DX version of the D4/D800's 51 point AF system
6FPS, or 8 with the grip.
15 frame, (RAW), buffer
1 CF, 1 SDXC slot
Manual video controls
Mic in and headphone out, HDMI out (like D4/D800)
Compatible with wireless transmitter (same as the D4/D800?)
All the other modern stuff in Nikon pro bodies

28-105mm F3.5-4.5D is close, any idea how good the AF on that lens is?

On the D400 specs you envision, if it has the iso 6400 performance of the D3200 it will be a no-go for me. I'm with MSMoto on native 12800, just don't see that it's possible with current crop sensors.

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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It is almost a given that the D7200 will have the 24MP sensor of the D5200.

But, yeah I would like the D400 to be 16MP too.. with as high ISO as possible.. a cropped D800 sensor would be great for the D400. though that sensor has native 6400.. not 12800..

Who knows.. maybe a whole new sensor is going to be included.. There were some amazing sensor advances and patents 3-5 years ago.. , yes dreaming again ... sorry ;-) and while I am still dreaming I can dream of the DXF400 ;-) maybe it will have a 16MP 1.2 crop sensor.. that would surely get it to 12800 native iso with current technology.. (still 11 MP DX mode will probably be too low for us DX shooters.. )

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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I don't think that 28-105 is what you want. Its a D lens so your camera body drives the focusing. also its a bit old now.. The D600 kit lens is probably a better option. 24-85mm F3.5-4.5G ED VR.

Posted 6 months ago #
tsitalon1

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Isn't the Tamron 28-75 2.8 (NBIM) a full frame lens?

Posted 6 months ago #
a weird guy

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let see this link below.

https://www.impressjapan.jp/pr/monitor/1113_dcm/271301_free.pdf

Nikon imaging company's general manager for marketing :Nobuaki Sasagaki seems to say "D300S and D7000 successors would be replaced as a New generation model of D7000" and it would be new DX flagship model.

I guess Nikon does not think to release D400 as a DX flagship model at this moment.

sorry for my terrible English.

Posted 6 months ago #
a weird guy

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And I don't know that new generation D7000 will take over which User Interface D600/D7000's or D4/D800's.

Posted 6 months ago #
Godless

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PB PM said:
As for the D400

..all else is probable in your fantasy except the too slow FPS rate.

To me, 8 to 12 FPS is realistic on a 24mp DX sensor without the grip. Sony Alpha 77 does 12FPS @24mp already. If Sony can do it, Nikon can do it. The question is, will they do it?

Posted 6 months ago #
msmoto

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If one reads the reviews of the Sony Alpha 77, it becomes clear performance at ISO above 3200 is marginal. The camera also does not have a moving mirror, but uses a semi-transparent mirror. Nikon does not to my knowledge have a semi-transparent mirror camera, and as this mirror would seem to have two more surfaces to collect dirt, I doubt Nikon will ever use this.

So, the Sony Alpha 77 may be good for 12FPS even in continuos servo focus, but its poor high ISO performance leaves something to be desired.

My guess is the next generation Nikon will be a mirrorless body, which has the technology to shoot at high FPS, full resolution, and have the ISO performance of the D4 or better.

Posted 6 months ago #
Godless

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msmoto said:
If one reads the reviews of the Sony Alpha 77, it becomes clear performance at ISO above 3200 is marginal. The camera also does not have a moving mirror, but uses a semi-transparent mirror

The alpha 77 is no high ISO monster, but the D400 could well be, as sensors and technologies develop all the time.

The FPS can be had with a DSLR as well (you should know, having the D4 and all).
The only advantage the SLTs have over DSLRs is continuous autofocus being really continuous.

When it comes to the imaginary and highly hypothetical D400, I´d be completely happy with 16mp and 51-point AF system in a D300 sized body having about 7-8 FPS without the grip. And a high ISO performance equal to the D7000.

We´ll see if the D400 ever happens. But not this Xmas :C

Posted 6 months ago #