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DavidHarsay

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More rumor stuff... from the Canon camp in UK referencing the D400:

"... the 7D2 is being actively positioned against an upcoming D400 from Nikon and will be announced around the same time... the 7D Mk2 is going to be firmly aimed at the sports and nature market, with a lot of features based on feedback from 'pro' users. The 10 fps rate is seen as an important feature, along with many features derived from 1DX developments, particularly AF and lower light performance. Sensor size would be advertised as 21MP, but faster and less noisy than the 7D (25MP was apparently seen as not offering enough image quality)."

The pressure is ON Mr. Nikon... and I'm sure that you will deliver. :)

On a similar topic as this relates to possible capabilities debated here over and over... I tried the Nikon V1 today with 70-200 f2.8 (540mm equiv) and also with the TC17 (900MM equiv)... Works fine with the first lens, but it accentuates that the one thing which DSLR's do well is focus at higher f-stops on fast glass whereas the mirror-less does not. Focus hunts terribly at f4.8 for the combo, and stopping it down any makes it useless. In other words, the future for sports is the D400. It's also capable of processing very high frame rate (60 frames per second at full 10MP in RAW) using the high setting for the electronic shutter... not saying that this is appropriate for people looking at the D400, but only that 10FPS at 24MP is a breeze to process from a data flow standpoint. Of course the buffer fills up fast with the 9meg RAW/NEF files, but not until I squeeze off 30 of them. All that with a $300 kit. So the frontier is fast autofocus not processing speed for frame rate, as of course with enough juice, even larger then DX mechanical shutters are capable of 10FPS on full frame cameras.

Posted 6 months ago #
kyoshinikon

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Still gabbing about the D400? I still think nikon dropped the ball on this one. If they had made the d600 to be a D700 with a better fx sensor, the fps of the D300s, a big buffer, and an accessible and seamless Dx crop mode at $1700 they could have effectively pleased at least 2/3rds of the D300s users and D700 users giving them a full featured camera... The D600 however turned out to be a joke and while I was initially a skeptic, nikon needs a small performance body in their lineup, crop or Fx with a good Dx mode. Now they have only 1 performance body at $6000 and between the price, size, and lack of good Dx dedicated features the D4 is out of the question for birders and some sport photogs...

If the D7000 had an adequate buffer and the focus system of the D300s, it probably would have eased the pain a bit about the D600 and D800 but it fell short of the D300s only in those 2 areas (this whole weather sealing thing is bs in my opinion). What I would like to see in a D400 is not a fresh D300s but a D2xs replacement... Like the d4 but for dx. That is never going to happen.

Posted 6 months ago #
bjrichus

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kyoshinikon said:
Still gabbing about the D400? I still think nikon dropped the ball on this one. If they had made [...]

There will always be the "I want feature "x" to be a bit bigger/smaller/faster" kind of debate and this is a rumors web site, so that's fine, but I do think you are being a little bit too dismissive of Nikon, especially considering that the D400 still hasn't been announced (looks over shoulder... Nope, nothing new in the public domain yet).

I agree that Nikon SHOULD have released better products but they didn't! Who in Nikon-land would disagree with that? Yes, Nikon have a current product set that does not satisfy everyone and IMHO they are just looking at Canon and not listening to users ... but we are putting out mixed messages: "I want a larger body", "I want a smaller body", "I want a heavier body", "I want a lighter body", and so on.

This makes me think that the Nikon view of the user base is not sophisticated enough, but for sure it is obscure enough for three camera makers... So what's new in that?

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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bjrichus said:
, Nikon have a current product set that does not satisfy everyone

How on earth did we manage in the 60s. simple choice Nikon F or Nikkormat

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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Easy, smaller user base with simple demands (functionality over form). Today the user base is much larger, more diverse, and there are many who care more for form over function.

Posted 6 months ago #
bjrichus

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sevencrossing said:
How on earth did we manage in the 60s. simple choice Nikon F or Nikkormat

Perfectly well.

WE USED FILM.

Posted 6 months ago #
DaveyJ

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I do not miss the film days. The D800 is a wonderful camera but I find NOTHING appealing about the D600. That camera cut way too many corners. The D7200 and D400 are the cameras that Nikon had better get to quick. How many of you are buying other things since Nikon dropped the ball? I have. Not cameras! Every photographer has other pursuits. Nikon and the loyal Nikon users are missing out here.

Posted 6 months ago #
Gabandi

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"I still think nikon dropped the ball on this one... The D600 however turned out to be a joke."

"If the D7000 had an adequate buffer and the focus system of the D300s, it probably would have eased the pain a bit about the D600 and D800 but it fell short of the D300s only in those 2 areas (this whole weather sealing thing is bs in my opinion)."

"I agree that Nikon SHOULD have released better products but they didn't! Who in Nikon-land would disagree with that? Yes, Nikon have a current product set that does not satisfy everyone and IMHO they are just looking at Canon and not listening to users"

"This makes me think that the Nikon view of the user base is not sophisticated enough, but for sure it is obscure enough for three camera makers... So what's new in that?"

You people are so funny XD

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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Can I get my 1.2 crop sensor camera thread back :-( sob...

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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heartyfisher said:
Can I get my 1.2 crop sensor camera thread back :-( sob...

The biggest advantage of a smaller sensor is cost
but I don't think the cost saving would be great enough to warrant Nikon bringing out a
new product

The other advantage is pixel density, the latest smaller sensors have a greater density and apparently give better "reach"
but there seems to be some disadvantages with a higher pixel density eg limited high ISO

giving customer a 3rd choice of a DFX would defiantly confuse them

Nikon seem to be responding the complaints that the D800 is too expensive with lots of offers

I expect the next one will Be "free 10 TB hard drive"

Posted 6 months ago #
Kuv

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heartyfisher said:
Can I get my 1.2 crop sensor camera thread back :-( sob...

I'd need to sell my DX lenses, pay for FX lenses, but wouldn't have an FX camera to use them on?! Sounds like a good deal to me.

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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What about a 25MP 1.2 crop sensor camera like this...
At a price 1/3 the way between the D7000 and the D600.ie more than $1000 cheaper than a D800. Same build as the D7000. With DX crop mode(16MP) and 4:5 crop mode(22MP) and CX crop mode(13MP).

1) You get to use all your current DX lenses.

2) You get a whole new set of lenses from your dx lenses.
2.1) Your Normal 35mm 1.8G becomes a bit wider.. 42mm equivalent instead of 52mm equivalent. 40mm was my Favorite focal length in my film days using olympus and the Zuiko 40mm f2.0 .. With a 1.2 crop sensor camera I get it back for free instead of needing to pay 3-4 times more for a 28mm F1.8 for use on dx. See why 40mm http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/why-40mm.html.
2.2) My 12-24 nikkor becomes just a bit wider. enough to take in the full 90degrees of a room which it frustratingly currently just misses by about 2 degrees !... 15-28mm equivalent.. would make this one of the most awesome ultrawides!
2.3) my 18-200 theoretically becomes 22-240, instead of 27-300. Now I think that would be just grand! 22mm on the wide end would be just awesome on a super zoom !

3) You get a whole new set of lenses from your FX lenses which you were already using on your DX camera. eg 50mm, 70-200 vr1, 24-70(equivalent 28-85), Tamron 90mm macro and 28-75 f2.8(equivalent 33-90), Sigma 150mm Macro.. etc..

4) You get the new D800 sensor qualities of High DR and nice high ISO.

Note you get all the above with out buying a new lens.

Posted 6 months ago #
Kuv

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OMG... You can't use DX lenses on any crop beyond 1.5. You get heavy vignetting.

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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Kuv said:
OMG... You can't use DX lenses on any crop beyond 1.5. You get heavy vignetting.

not true.. The 35mm on FX has a bit of vignetting.. reports from D800 users say that at 1.2 crop mode it works fine.. with only slight but more than acceptable vignetting.
The 12-24 works from 16mm onwards on FX. allbeit with some fuzzy corners. On 1.2 crop mode it should at least work from 14mm onwards with much more acceptable corners.

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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DaveyJ said:
I do not miss the film days. The D800 is a wonderful camera but I find NOTHING appealing about the D600. That camera cut way too many corners. The D7200 and D400 are the cameras that Nikon had better get to quick. How many of you are buying other things since Nikon dropped the ball? I have. Not cameras! Every photographer has other pursuits. Nikon and the loyal Nikon users are missing out here.

yeah bicycles cost as much as cameras ! ;-)

Posted 6 months ago #
scoobysmak

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I guess either way Nikon wins according to my walet, instead of cameras I have been adding to my glass collection, more useful anyway, lol. Until I effectively use what I got a newer camera won't help me that much. I would like a D400 with D700 layout or at least close, not the D7000 layout then I would like to see something above 6fps, 18-24 MP with better ISO than the D7000 and autofocus that works at F8.

For now it won't matter anyway, I won't be able to carry it for at least a year, lol. Maybe when I get back I can see what happens with this.

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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@hartyfisher: 1.2 crop isn't going to happen. It just isn't logical at this point for Nikon to launch a new sensor, which neither of their sensor providers make. If Sony launched a 1.2 crop camera, then maybe I could see it happening, but they aren't.

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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PB PM said:
@hartyfisher: 1.2 crop isn't going to happen. It just isn't logical at this point for Nikon to launch a new sensor, which neither of their sensor providers make. If Sony launched a 1.2 crop camera, then maybe I could see it happening, but they aren't.

So you are saying that a 1.2 crop sensor is a good idea too ? ;-) .. . just bec Sony doesn't make a 1.2 crop sensor at the moment .. doesn't mean it cant be done !
What about the other company that makes the D3200 sensor.. . They may be more flexible? :-)

Posted 6 months ago #
Geoff_K

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It is harder to do the math with 1.2 effective focal lenght view. ;- >

Posted 6 months ago #
bjrichus

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Gabandi said:
You people are so funny XD

Just passing time until the release the D400 ...

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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heartyfisher said:
So you are saying that a 1.2 crop sensor is a good idea too ? ;-) .. . just bec Sony doesn't make a 1.2 crop sensor at the moment .. doesn't mean it cant be done !
What about the other company that makes the D3200 sensor.. . They may be more flexible? :-)

No, I see no need for a 1.2 crop camera, and more importantly there are reasons why Canon dropped that sensor size. I see two reasons for this, 1. It isn't much cheaper to make than a FF sensor, 2. doesn't have any real benefits over DX or FF.

Aptina (Nikon's other sensor provider) only makes DX, and smaller, sensors. I doubt they would be interested in making a 1.2 crop sensor for such a low demand market segment.

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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But isn't the fact that there is 1.2 crop factor mode in the FX cameras mean that there is merit in that crop factor?

BTW i did some maths and found that on a 1.22 crop sensor a 4:5 crop mode would fit into a DX image circle. That would mean that with a 1.22 crop sensor camera in a 4:5 crop mode all DX lenses would work! now isnt that exciting ?

Sorry, I am ignoring the realities of the non-existance of a 1.2 crop sensor to dream of one :-) "if you build it they will come"

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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Why the obsession with DX lenses working with 1.2 crop factor, what does that have to do with anything? The user base that would buy a 1.2 crop sensor camera would likely have a bag of FF lenses anyway (as do many D300/D300s, and potential D400 users). I know this is the case with the 1D MKIV (1.2crop) users I know, although that is a different class of camera than the D400 price point.

If you want 1.2 crop factor so bad, get a D3, D4 or D800 and run it in 1.2 crop mode and leave those who want a high performance DX body alone. :-P

Posted 6 months ago #
heartyfisher

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I have had a closer look at the 1.3 1D cameras and reading up on them. The following are the weaknesses I see.
1) Will not work with APS-C lenses - Our theoretical 1.2 crop camera in 4:5 mode will work with All DX lenses. So in native 1.2 mode it will work with most DX lenses and in DX mode and in 4:5 mode All DX lenses !
2) Didnt have a good ultra wide.. We have the Nikkor 12-24 that will work with it!
in fact all current DX ultrawides will work with it.
3) It cost a zillion ! We are talking between $1400 to $1800.

So our 1.2 is a totally different beast. None of the 1D disadvantages apply. Don't think of it as a cut down FX. In effect its a suped up DX camera that take a bit more advantage of the FX lenses that DX users already have.

If you were a D7000 user with a couple or 3 Dx lenses and one FX (70-200?) and wanting to upgrade .. wouldn't this be a great little camera? maybe even call it a D400 ! ;-)

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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heartyfisher said:

If you were a D7000 user with a couple or 3 Dx lenses and one FX (70-200?) and wanting to upgrade .. wouldn't this be a great little camera? maybe even call it a D400 ! ;-)

I have a friend in exactly this situation

he earning a sensible living with his D7000 but he would love to up the quality of his work a bit ( so he can charge and earn a little bit more )

so what should spend his money on? Well, we are in pretty much in agreement on this; he should spend it on glass. The lens that would make a big difference to his work, would be the 24 mm f 1.4 .

Would any one recommend putting this is lens on a Dx or 1.2 sensor ?
can any one recommend a DX equivalent

He will not wait for the D400 ( as does not read this forum, he will not even have heard of it). I suspect he will buy a D600 or if he listens to me, rather than his wife, a D800

Posted 6 months ago #