@ D300 user....If you can go the D4 route...you can always crop to the DX size.....go for it! Me, if the D400 ever gets here, it will have to have an ISO of 12,800. I do think it will be in January in much the same way they brought out the D4/D800....almost on top of each other.
D400
(862 posts) (98 voices)-
Posted 6 months ago #
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I don't know how, but I'm getting pretty deep into all the D400 fever somehow. Being a Nikonian does that to a person, I guess. :D
I've been reading so many different things, and I think that it's pretty obvious Nikon will EVENTUALLY provide a camera that is considered to be -- at least by the majority of "hardcore" DX users -- a suitable replacement, even if not named the D400.
I somewhat suspect that Nikon left the 400, 500, and up until recently, the 600 bracket open for a reason. The 600+ range will be FF cameras, with 600 being the 'basic' entry level working up to the monster D800 and D900, whenever it is out. Of course, that slot might also be filled by a D500. But I think that either the D400 or D500 will be the top of the line, cream of the crop, best DX camera the world has ever seen from Nikon.
Seeing that a 7D Mk II from Canon seems pretty imminent, and Canikon tend to release competing models at around the same time pretty consistently, I think we should expect a D400 equivalent, and perhaps a D7100 equivalent, sometime next year....
Of course, I have NO idea what Nikon are doing so....take what I say with a grain of salt, at the most.
Posted 6 months ago # -
MM Still think a D300x with a 24.1 mp sensor & WiFi builtin would be sufficient, the D300s is otherwise (for me..) the top of the bill DX camera already ....
Posted 6 months ago # -
Nothing to add....just want to make sure this stays on the front page ;-)
Posted 6 months ago # -
@ shutterdancer Yup, some of us are really getting a bit tired of waiting....as I sold my D200 about six months ago.....
Posted 6 months ago # -
Dear Nikon,
This is by far and away the longest tread on this forum - I think that it is time you served your loyal customers and brought us a D300s update. As I have stated before, this will be a popular camera and will earn you lots of money. There are thousands of photographers who do not view full frame as the be all and end all - please make my Christmas and announce the long overdue D400/D300X
Regards
FTPosted 6 months ago # -
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msmoto said:
.....the D400 will have native ISO of 12,800. It will have to stand alone from the other crop sensor cameras.Quality at High ISOs seem to be the preserve of FX cameras
Most professionals want quality at high ISOs
and this is the big problem with producing a D400
I do not think, at momen,t Nikon can get the high ISO quality that profession have become used to, in a DX camera
Posted 6 months ago # -
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As a D300s user I want to upgrade to the next DX camera from Nikon, but there isn't one that in my view is better than the D300s, I have waited and waited for a D400, but still no news, so what do I do. I am seriously thinking about selling all my Nikon gear and buying a Fuji XPRO 1, it seems to me that Fuji are thinking more about their customers needs, less weight, good reproduction, more choice of lens - now you can also use Zeiss and Leica.
I thought about a D800, but I don't need 36mp and massive files, so I looked at the D600 and it's just too small to hold properly, it feels all wrong, I am a European not an Asian with small hands.
Come on Nikon tell me what's happening so I can decide.
Posted 6 months ago # -
allen on the fairway said:
I thought about a D800, but I don't need 36mp and massive files, so I looked at the D600 and it's just too small to hold properly, it feels all wrong, I am a European not an Asian with small hands.Look at it differently.. those huge file sizes could make you think twice before 1. taking a shot, or 2. storing a shot on your hard drive. I'm currently throwing away thousands of photo's from years ago that are no longer up to my current standards. Now I only save about 1/5th of the shots I take.
I'm also used to a D300 and would not like a smaller, lighter body, especially when working with big lenses (for balance and stuff).
Posted 6 months ago # -
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bump ;-)
Posted 6 months ago # -
How about something like this? Note how the D600 is lightened from the weight of a D800. Notice how it's body is not all metal like the D800. It is a combination of metal and plastic. Note how it is weather sealed but not to the same degree as a D4. Now take that same design philosophy and apply it to the D4. Make the D400 body a "lite" D4 body for about $2,000 as the top of the line in DX bodies. Make it a true second body substitute for those shooting a D4. Make it about the same size and shape as a D4 including the built in vertical position grip, plastic/metal construction like the D600 to reduce cost and weight, controls like the D4 but with less weather sealing to reduce cost, 24mp (or 16mp) DX sensor with native ISO up to 12,800, use of many of the electronics of the D4/D800/D600 bodies. make it a true D4 replacement for those times when the shooter wants to get "more reach." Now wouldn't that be a real winner? Wouldn't it sell better than using a D800 body and putting a DX sensor in it?
Posted 5 months ago # -
donaldejose said: Now wouldn't that be a real winner? Wouldn't it sell better than using a D800 body and putting a DX sensor in it?
It would be of more value to the bird shooters for sure and I am sold on the D4 layout compared to the smaller bodies now I have used both, but would it sell more?
Hmmm...
A generation of sensors/processors ago, I would have said you are looking too up market. Now I am less sure, but most DX users are very price sensitive. I suspect we are looking for something more $1500 than $2000, which can't really be the D4 shape/size, can it? Can it??
Posted 5 months ago # -
If Nikon simply adds to the D300 a sensor at 16MP, Native ISO of 12,800 and 9 FPS at full res, this is the camera. One can always purchase a battery grip. And with the above specs it might be less than USD $2,000.00.
If the body is the size of the D4, yes, great, but the cost will be closer to USD $3,000.00. To design and produce a new large body in a model which is limited to a few folks who want DX and are willing to pay the price of the D600, is no doubt not a reality for Nikon. The development cost would never be recovered. And, who wants a USD $140.00 battery from a D4 in their D400?
But, we will see. If Nikon does not produce a D400 with the specs I have suggested, I am thinking a lot of folks are going to be looking at new manufacturers for their DX solutions. And, I think Sony and Fuji are going to be there waiting.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I agree that we most likely won't get to see a D4 sized pro DX body as that would lead to a (significantly) higher price, thereby lowering sales/target audience. A D800 type body would take in every serious/pro DX user for under $2000.
Any guesses on whether a D7200 is possible before the Christmas shopping season? If so, I have decent hopes on a D400 before March 2013. I do hope they will keep both bodies separate and not go for a D7200/D400 intermediate that just isn't D400-ish enough :p. And 16MP, I don't know... all other DX bodies would have 24MP and the flagship DX only 16.. they did it with the D4 but I'm not seeing it in a D400. 18-20MP would be ideal for my use (I still have to crop sometimes).
Posted 5 months ago # -
Its kind of ridiculous to expect any DX camera to be a D4 "lite" or to act as a replacement for one. Im somewhat surprised that so many people have such high expectations for the performance of a DX sensor. Sure, it will be a great sensor, but it will invariably pale in comparison to any modern FX sensor like the one found in the D4 - physics hasn't changed last time I checked. The only D4 "lite" that might ever exist will have to be an FX camera. Expecting anything different is just silly.
And a full sized pro-DX body of similar make-up to a D4 will certainly not cost $3000. Thats a pipe dream. If such a beast were made it would cost just as much as every pro-body before it. Expect to pay $5000 - but I think we all know that camera is incredibly unlikely to ever be made.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Well, yes if made in Japan at the same cost to produce; but then many people also claimed a $2,000 FX body would never be made and we do have the D600. Use more plastic, produce it in China, use "off the shelf parts," use existing parts designs but manufactured by a Chinese supplier, etc and you can get a body the same size and shape of a D4 for much less than $5,000. Birders would love it. Bodies don't have to last even 10 years anymore. The electronics will be outdated in just 4 or 5 years and a replacement camera will be produced which Nikon wants to sell to you. If you keep a body through two generation cycles (about 10 years), that will be long enough. Sure the film cameras lasted 10 or 20 years but the "technology" was removable in them.
Certainly, "more likely than not," the D400 will be a D800 body with a DX sensor and it may even use the same battery grip. But we can imagine the "less likely than more" odds also. I hope Nikon does think outside of the box.
Posted 5 months ago # -
donaldejose said:
Well, yes if made in Japan at the same cost to produce; but then many people also claimed a $2,000 FX body would never be made and we do have the D600. Use more plastic, produce it in China, use "off the shelf parts," use existing parts designs but manufactured by a Chinese supplier, etc and you can get a body the same size and shape of a D4 for much less than $5,000.Donald I'm surprised you'd say this in light of all the nits people have had t pick with the current D600: Tighter focus point orientation in the viewfinder, 1/4000 shutter speed instead of 1/8000, flash sync of 1/200 instead of 1/250, no histogram overlay when in live-view (so I've read), questionable construction of the front of the camera (lens mounts breaking off with a fall). Sounds like a good example of "you get what you paid for." If the D400 were truly made cheaper....cheap is probably what it'll be.
Posted 5 months ago # -
donaldejose said:
Use more plastic, produce it in China, use "off the shelf parts," use existing parts designs but manufactured by a Chinese supplier, etc and you can get a body the same size and shape of a D4 for much less than $5,000. Birders would love it. Bodies don't have to last even 10 years anymore.You are no longer describing a pro-body. Thats my point. Birders would be unlikely to buy it if it didn't perform well in the cold and humidity, so your scenario is getting pretty desperate.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Yes, a "plastic" body is no longer like the "old pro" or D4 or D800 bodies we think of as "pro." Does it really need to be anymore to be considered "pro?"
The D80 body was "plastic" as was the D90. They held up well enough until they were replaced in a few years. I have not see complaints from people about the lack of durability of the D90 body or complaints that it doesn't perform well in humidity or in the cold. Today's plastics can be durable and stable. A lot of people are still using D90s today. The D7000 converted that position in the Nikon line up to a "pro" magnesium alloy body and still it sold for $1,200 so such a metal "pro" DX body could be extended to include a vertical grip and still cost much less than $3,000. On the opposite end of the scale going down from D4 and D800, the D600 was assembled in Thailand and uses a combined plastic/magnesium alloy body and sells for $2000 with an FX sensor. Put a DX sensor in the D600 and what would it sell for? $1,500? Extend the D600 body to incorporate a vertical grip and you can still be under $2,000 for DX. Add a better focusing module and a larger buffer and you still should be under $3,000. Take the metal molding for the D800 and produce some of those metal parts in plastic like the D600. Replace the 36mp FX sensor with a 24mp DX sensor and surely you could produce a D400 for less than $2,500. Let people buy an add-on grip and you are still under $3,000 or simply extend the body to incorporate a vertical grip and you can still be under $3,000. Copy the D4 ergonomics and how much more would that add? Shouldn't be much. Shouldn't get you to $5,000.
The top of the line DX body used by birders most likely will be mounted on a long telephoto lens and that telephoto lens will be mounted on a tripod. The camera lens mount need only carry the weight of the camera body itself. D600 type construction should be adequate for that.
I am not arguing for the same old "pro" specs at a lower price point. I am arguing for something new which I call a pro "lite" line which has different specs. The D600 is a great example. I love its lightness. Will it be as durable as a D800? Time will tell. But most likely it will be durable enough to last through two camera generations for most people. I believe today's plastic can replace yesterday's metal and still create very durable bodies and lenses. I believe assembly in China or Thailand can very significantly reduce cost.
Nikon has moved towards increased use of plastics in almost all lenses. We will see if the D600 foreshadows a move towards plastics in what used to be considered the "pro" segment of their line.
Of course, the simple thing is to put a DX sensor into a D800 body and price it just over $2,000. "More likely than not" that is what Nikon will do. We will soon see. My concept of a "pro lite" line may never be produced. It is just an idea.
Posted 5 months ago # -
A plastic body would never sell, especially with birders. An extra 200-300g means nothing when you are out walking around birding. In addition, when you are out birding you often bump a camera body on stuff as you are moving around in the woods. A plastic body could break in short order. In any case, the body you are describing is already out, the D7000 with MB-D11 (and it's replacement).
The D600 is not a "pro" it is aimed at armatures, that's even what the Nikon reps are saying.
A D800 bodied D400 would come in at the same price as the D300 and D300s before it, $1899.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Lets all hope we soon see a D400 made by placing a killer 24mp DX sensor inside a D800 body and selling for $1,899. That would mean you save over $1,000 by putting a DX sensor in rather than the FX sensor and you can use your D800 vertical grip on the D400 body also. More likely than not, this is what Nikon will do. It is the easiest path.
Posted 5 months ago #
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