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Nikon Rumors Forum » Nikon DSLR

D400

(862 posts) (98 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by DaveO
  • Latest reply from msmoto
  • Related Topics:
    1. Happy with your D600?
    2. Nikon 50mm f/1.4G blurry quality at large apertures: Is this normal?
    3. D600 or D800 which to choose in the UK?
    4. i own D7000 and FX Lenses, upgrade to d600?
    5. D800 or D800e

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  1. msmoto

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    As to Photoshopped photos...just Google "Nikon D400 Photos" and you will see several. One is noted to have been on NRF in 2009. It does appear to have 8 FPS, 9 w/ D4 battery, ISO native at 6400, but most impressive the focusing ability at f/8 which means the 200-400mm f/4, 500mm and 600mm f/4 lenses (the ones we all have LOL) with the TC-20EIII is useable. And I mean 1800mm effective focal length......yes! Or, with the 400mm...1200mm effective.....

    It also appears the sensor will be the same as in the D3200, and this I do not like, but the Sony sensor is a very good sensor and it may have a tweak or two like the better focusing ability, so maybe this is not so bad.

    The question is when. Photokina, first day, 7 PM reception. Based on my information, this is my best guess. But, things change...

    Posted 9 months ago #
  2. sevencrossing

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    msmoto said:
    . So, the sensor in the D400 should have some magic like the D4, maybe the extra stop and a half of dynamic range....

    So lets assume you you crop the D4s sensor to DX
    that would give you ~8 mp
    which in practice, might give acceptable results
    but try selling a Pro camera with only 8mp to the great unwashed

    Posted 9 months ago #
  3. msmoto

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    @ sevencrossing... Yes, cropping a sensor and calculating the pixels is always interesting. I think the tweaking in the Sony sensor. which is now in the D3200, would possibly be in the actual pixels themselves to give some change and more dynamic range. The D800 cropped to Dx is 15.4 MP. The native ISO's of the D800 sensor and the D3200 sensor are both 6400. So, there is a difference and possibly some advance in the way the pixels are designed, and it appears the D3200 sensor is actually a better sensor than the D800. So, if the D3200 sensor were expanded to FX, it would be almost 57 MP. In other words, the pixels are smaller, yet as light sensitive as the D800.

    Or, thinking a different way, if one takes the apparently more light sensitive sensors in the D3200, reduces this to about 18 MP and then makes the pixels larger, gives a native ISO of 12,800, what a fantastic D400.

    All nice fantasy thinking. Maybe the leak on the Mansurovs' website is purposely published by Nikon to keep the spies from looking further.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. iris chrome

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    ^^"I think the tweaking in the Sony sensor, which is now in the D3200 [...]"

    Just a quick fact check:

    The D3200 sensor was actually found to be fabricated by Nikon (http://bit.ly/LFVAGL). Nikon had also claimed that the D3100 sensor was "developed" by them (http://www.nikon.com/news/2010/0819_d3100_01.htm)

    In fact, most of Nikon's DSLR sensors have been manufactured or at least completely designed by them with some notable exceptions such as D7000 (http://bit.ly/e5UJW0).

    As far as I know, there is no definite info as to the manufacturer of the sensor found in the D800 although many seem to think it's Sony. If you go to http://www.sensorgen.info, they also say D800 sensor is made by Sony although I'm not sure how reliable they can be. On their V1/J1 page they claim the sensor is Nikon but according to Chipworks, V1/J1 use an Aptina sensor (http://bit.ly/NnWzjO).

    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. R8R

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    You know what is really good for your blood pressure and wallet?

    Patience.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. fozzyffp

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    I know this has been beaten to death, but man id love to have 9fps and a native 12,800, if those are both true, i'll order one the day it comes out, if not... well ill still probably get one, but ill wait for the reviews... and the extra 2 months ill end up waiting for ordering first...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  7. msmoto

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    fozzyffp said:
    I know this has been beaten to death, but man id love to have 9fps and a native 12,800, if those are both true, i'll order one the day it comes out, if not... well ill still probably get one, but ill wait for the reviews... and the extra 2 months ill end up waiting for ordering first...

    So, let's beat it some more.... 9 FPS, native ISO 12,800. Interestingly enough, the photos on the main blog of the D600 are af two different cameras...almost like Nikon might be attempting to pull the wool over our eyes. But, my hope is, this confusion over the D600 may be giving us more hope for a D400. Could they be using the D600 as a smoke screen to hide the D400?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  8. Geoff_K

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    If there were going to be a D400 announced this month we would have seen more information on it is my guess.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  9. Eric

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    ... The D3200 did show up without warning so the D400 could still happen. Personally I think that the D400 will be announced a bit after the D600. This would give folks time to really consider the D600. The latest NR specs for the D600 look pretty good for the price and with the AF motor it is compatible with a lot of older glass. Same ISO capability as the D800, but probably has better pixel level noise.

    24MP in a full frame body sounds like the ideal backup for that D4. Oh, and 16 bits... if this is real what will it say about color depth and DR. I think it might be a challenge to tell the difference between a D600 and a D800 image. (ie Good technique will be required)

    So, Nikon introduces the D600 first (consider the comparison between the D600 and the 5DmkIII) because it may be more likely to increase market share. Then Nikon follows with the D400 which may have a greater percentage of upgrade sales. This also keeps the Nikon buzz going longer.

    Has anyone considered that a 24mp DX camera will have a finer pixel pitch than the D800? I understand that if you use FX glass on a DX camera you are really only taking the sweet spot of the lens, still that pixel pitch should be every bit as challenging to use (fully) as the D800. Also, assuming that the D600 does have a 16 bit processor then the D400 will probably be 16 bits as well. Put in dual Expeed 3 processors, high frame rate etc. then with the added DR and color depth available with those 16 bits, the D400 could be the best DSLR Nikon has ever made. So, if that is a possibility, then I can see why Nikon might wait a bit longer before introducing the D400.

    ...Watcha gonna do Tommie? ;-)

    Posted 8 months ago #
  10. andrewz

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    Still waiting for the D400…. I was curious about the D3200 because the specs look so good. So I went to my favorite local camera store and spent some time with it. I would say it’s a great starter DSLR or even a second DX camera but it is so small and doesn’t have the controls of my D200,I just wouldn’t be comfortable using it as my primary camera.

    I’m going to update my predictions to say the D400 could have the same sensor as the D3200 because it would be such a different camera with all of the options, durability and size we expect in the DX00 class camera.

    I also spent some time with a Fuji X-Pro 1, very nice and actually a little bigger in my hands than I expected. It also feels very solid. It’s actually almost the same size a Nikon SP but a little lighter.

    Fuji xpro1 139.5 x81.8 x42.5mm,it weighs in at 450g

    Nikon SP 136 × 81 x43mm,it weighs in at 590 g

    Posted 8 months ago #
  11. TaoTeJared

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    Eric said:
    ...Oh, and 16 bits... if this is real what will it say about color depth and DR.

    It is 16bit PROCESSING not the same as color depth - huge, huge, huge difference! It just means the processor is faster than last gen cameras.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  12. Eric

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    @TTJ - Thanks for the correction, somehow I assumed that they were using 16 bit A/Ds like the Phase One. Yes, a big difference. Thanks again!

    Posted 8 months ago #
  13. DaveyJ

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    IF the D400 is announced as msmoto predicts SHE will stand out as the ONE with the functional crystal ball! I for sure hope she is right!! But I concur with Geoff_K. There would have had to be some leaks, rumors, etc.?? I do feel that Nikon has made a very troubling move in relation to FX versus DX. I have a letter form a Nikon Vice President of marketing saying they have ultimate trust in their R&D team. If they even temporarily have abandoned DX I believe they do so at their peril.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  14. msmoto

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    If Nikon does not announce the D400 at Photokina, I believe they will have made either a gross error in judgement or they are planning something which is going to be quite innovative. If, the same folks that were at Nikon in the 1950's were running the company today, we most likely would be seeing a Nikon X Pro-1 and not a Fuji. But times change and possibly the ideas at Nikon are not what we might think they are.

    For Nikon to be at Photokina and not come up with something really outstanding seems a bit melodramatic. I see an entry level FX camera like the D600 as not too much to jump up and down about. Thus comes my prediction.

    And, on the main blog, the D7000 which has been Photoshopped extending the pop up flash and redoing the left dial, is a fake. No reason exists for the long snout. And the kit lens...yikes. Anyway, it is always nice to be able to guess about the new cameras date of introduction.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  15. fozzyffp

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    ALso, Japan, has a very honest and respectful culture, maybe everyone involved in the D400 has signed NDA's with strict penalties for a breech. if the keep all production in house, they might be able to keep it under wraps...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. JohnSebs

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    Stock of D4 and D800 still hard to get and with D3200 servicing needs of entry level plus now D600 for in between entry level and pro level, I don't think we will see D300 or D7000 replacement till next year...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  17. Geoff_K

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    I see the D800 often on the Nikon Store and Bestbuy site. Recently they had the D800E listed again, so I ordered a replacement for the one I am sending back to the Nikon Store.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  18. donaldejose

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    The more I hear about the specifications of the D600 the more I fear there will be no D400, especially if the price of the D600 is as low as $1,500. It seems the D600 is really an FX sensor placed into a D7000 body to keep the cost as low as possible; something I suggested might happen a long time ago. If a 24mp FX sensor body is going to be that low and accompanied by much less expensive FX zoom lenses I wonder if there really would be a sufficient market for a D800 size/robust build body with a DX sensor. Still I would love to see a "mini-D4" style D400 but I fear people will not pay the same or more for DX as they can pay for FX. Thus, the next D400 may be the D7200.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  19. msmoto

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    Ahhh....Yes, Donaldejose....I am also hearing the D400 may not make it to the Sep 18 announcement.... very sad, indeed. For my purposes, I would pay $2000 for a D400 with ISO 12,800 native, and 8 FPS, 16 MP sensor. But, my suspicions are Nikon may have decided to push the D600 and any D300s replacement will be either later on or not at all.

    Thus, it is with great sadness, I am stating my doubts about the Sep 18 date original put up here by me as a result of what I thought was good information.

    For me to have a second body, the D800 is about it, as the struggle with the controls/menus on the "pro-sumer" bodies is too much for an old lady. :-)

    Posted 8 months ago #
  20. TriShooter

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    dj - the problem with what you describe is two-fold for those of us that shoot birds and small animals. Others have said more than I am about to say about not having a replacement for the D300, albeit in different posts.

    1. The ergonomics, and features like autofocus tracking are much better to me on the D300 than the D7xxx cameras, and the viewfinder, body build and weather proofing as well. I have lost track of how many times I have accidentally hit buttons on the back of the D7000.

    2. I use the aps-c format for more pixels in the center of the frame in conjunction with the 1.5 crop factor. A 24MP full frame is going to have less pixels than I want in the center of the frame. So unless Nikon can make all of those MPs work in either mode which is unlikely I feel like I am loosing reach and resolution so would have to buy an 800mm lens instead of using my 500mm with tel-converter which means carrying more weight. At 70 I really do not want to carry more weight, so will definitely not being doing that.

    I think the D600 will be a great camera for most people shooting where they can change position quickly for framing their shots. I do not have that luxury when a bird is sitting on the other side of a body of water, or flying at angle that is going away from me.

    You made valid comments, and you speculation is every bit as good as anyone else's. Nevertheless, there are a ton of photographers out there with similar needs so speculate that Nikon will not help themselves by ignoring this market segment. People like me will also buy a D800, or the D600, for the portrait and landscape quality, and happily use one of them for birding when we are close enough for a 1000mm or less lens to cut it. I am not buy anything (in fact have already sold a dozen FF lenses, just keeping the golden ones like the 85mm f1.4 ED ) until Nikon does something meaningful for their aps-c format because this is the format that works best for me. APS-C let's me cover from 16mm to 1500mm in 35mm format with the pixels where I want them for birding, inside that little aps-c frame.

    Time will tell. I like the D7000, and it takes very good pictures, but I love my D300 more, unless I need a higher shutter speed which is THE great asset of the D7000, and actually the only reason I bought them. I have a D5100 too which is my goto camera for my grandchildren because of its tilting display which lets me get better shots without spending too much time on my knees. lol.

    Nikon was too late, with not enough picture quality, on the V1 so after waiting to see what Nikon's response would be, if any, to Sony's NEX chose the NEX Series for its higher quality, and I love it. I have used Nikons since I was a kid so have a high regard for their people and company. Nevertheless, I think I am getting old faster these days so perhaps less willing to wait. There are whole bunch of baby boomers that will probably feel similarly right behind me.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  21. tcole1983

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    I was very sad by the posting on the blog :( I even just went back to look at the specs of the D600...I am not impressed really. I am curious to see what the back of the camera looks like, but if it really is mostly menu based like the D5XXX and D3XXX series cameras I think it will be a huge disappointment. Gosh I just can't get my mind around Nikon's thinking on this one. I know cheap FX, but why? The D400 seems like it would be so much more targeted toward everyone. Those looking to upgrade from their current DX bodies and even those pros that want a fast FPS body, but don't want to drop $6k on a D4. Plus it should be more robust and have all the bells and whistles...instead we have something released at the similar price point with only mediocre specs and which if not already setup for it cost people more in buying FX glass. It really makes a difference for me. That is at least one more lens I would have to buy if not more...that's another $1000. Where I already have a great setup for a new DX body.

    Maybe it will still come, but I am fairly disappointed so far. If the next body released is a D5200 I think it will be pretty devastating...we at least need a D7000 replacement if there isn't a D300s replacement.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  22. donaldejose

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    Surely there will be a D7000 replacement late this year or next year.

    Nikon may be thinking the DX mode on a D800 is "good enough" for those (birders) who what the DX crop factor and the pro-size body with the same layout as the D4. Also, the D7200 is sure to give us a 24mp DX body. So those who want the maximum number of pixels in the DX format can use the D7200. Where is the need then for a separate D400 when you have those two choices? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a D400 in a D800 body which has 24mp, the clean high ISO and high fps of the D4 and takes the same battery grip as the D800. It is just that the market gap filled by the D300 is shrinking as the FX moves down in price and the D7300 will move up in resolution.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  23. Rx4Photo

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    I can somewhat understand what Nikon is thinking here if they have no plans to introduce a D400. A D400 with the ideal specs as mentioned before, pro body, native ISO 12800, 8 FPS, rugged weather ready body and 16MP DX sensor among other things would probably chew deeply into the sales of the D4. Honesty, the pros who are shooting for print media know they don't need more than 16 MP. Twelve MP was actually excellent. So if there existed a 16 or 24MP DX Nikon with current technology in the sensor with the above specs how many would actually spend $6000 on a D4. Probably not many.

    I'm thinking Nikon is targeting each camera for a specific use and user. If you want a particular feature set - you will not get it in "another" camera except the one that has that feature set. I realized a couple of days ago as I was shooting worker bees gathering pollen that I needed to shoot at 1/8000 sec to even come close to freezing the wings in motion. So would a D600 have helped me with max shutter at 1/4000? No. D4 would have been better but the 800 held its own and I got close to what I wanted.

    They introduced the D800 for the ultimate resolution, shadow detail, dynamic range, and detail. What you don't get is the high FPS count but you do get all the other bells and whistles including a more pro sized body and all magnesium alloy. The D600 is a few steps back but still FF. The D7000 line will probably continue as donaldejose speculates and will remain DX with a feature set beyond the D5000 line.

    In the end, Nikon is saying we'll have to pay for the specific features we want and they will not give them to us on the cheap in another camera. All that said, there is still a chance that a D400 could be developed if they feel they've shot themselves in the foot.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  24. tcole1983

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    It isn't even the MP for me. Really if they could just up the ISO performance I would buy a D300s. I however hate to spend the money and get about the same ISO performance that my D5000 has in the D300s. I think that is really one area where the changing technology really improves with every generation and really makes a body more usable. I have looked pretty heavily at every body available now and well a D400 fits perfectly...a D7100 might be acceptable if it is ever released. A D800 or D4 unaffordable for me, a D3200 too basic, a D600 basic and have to buy more FX glass, D7000 getting to end of life line and not really all that much improvement over my D5000. Even though I have no doubt I would love the D800 it is just unrealistic for an amateur like myself. If I had the money I would have bought one already along with FX glass for it. Maybe the D600 will surprise me, but so far I still hope for a D400.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  25. donaldejose

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    We all hope for a D400!

    Posted 8 months ago #

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