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Is Nikon DX format dead?

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Rx4Photo

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I came across an article just published today on a particular photographer's blog about not buying any more new FX cameras (D4). His speculation is not that DX or FX is dead but that mirrored cameras will be a thing of the past in about 5 years. He's a Nikon shooter as well and feels that mirrorless systems will grow and cause the phasing out of these big DSLRs that we've come to admire.

With that, I don't think DX is dead but I suspect the next year or 2 will bring out revelations about the future of what we consider the cameras we really desire in the future.

I can't post a link to the blog since it contains ads for his stuff but if strong hint's are OK ... bringing live plants back from a foreign country could wind up getting you - Stuck in Customs.

Posted 1 year ago #
kyoshinikon

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Look at sony. they may still not be taken seriously but if you have ever used their a900 and 70-200mm f2.8 it is a SERIOUS camera. I feel like the a99 is going to be the nail in the coffin if they build it as a fullframe a77 with a larger buffer and tethering. The 1Dx was rather unimpressive compared to the D3s (but very impressive for a canon) which tells me that DSLRS are reaching a stalling point... It wont be tomorrow but just as XQD jumped on us so will TLR's and EVF's I have a feeling it will take longer to get to the pro bodies though (15 years?) I bet the D5 will have a mirror but the D7200 won't... The D3300 will probably take on the visage of a J1-D40 hybrid (that little white concept camera is a good visual)

Posted 1 year ago #
enigmeow

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Yeah, I looked at the sony camera and had the same response. If it was FX I'd probably not be buying a D4...

Similarly, I am surprised we don't see a mirror lockup mode on the newer camera's like the D4 (or 1Dx) where it stops cycling the mirrors, aperture blades, etc on every frame so that we can get some serious fps..

Posted 1 year ago #
PB PM

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People have been saying that DSLRs are dead since the first mirrorless cameras hit the market 3 years ago, yet none of the manufactures have produced a mirrorless camera that can keep up with a DSLR in terms of overall handling, controls and for that matter performance. Not that I don't like mirrorless cameras, I have one, but they play a different roll IMO. They make nice travel cameras, or general purpose tools, but wont be in the pro market for a long time.

Posted 1 year ago #
kyoshinikon

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PB PM said:
People have been saying that DSLRs are dead since the first mirrorless cameras hit the market 3 years ago, yet none of the manufactures have produced a mirrorless camera that can keep up with a DSLR in terms of overall handling, controls and for that matter performance. Not that I don't like mirrorless cameras, I have one, but they play a different roll IMO. They make nice travel cameras, or general purpose tools, but wont be in the pro market for a long time.

You haven't tried a sony a77 have you? It is not there yet but give it 4-6 years and it will be there (another 5 to creep up towards the top). After using sony gear I am convinced that the change is possible. The a77 is much better than the 60D (the D7000 is better than either and the 7D) in terms of real world use. Most canuts wont try nikon or sony yet insist that canon is the best, but on both paper and In real world situations it always seem to underperform on areas that matter. What is keeping canon up top is the great pr & marketing... Something sony has proved it is contempt in when it wants to. be.

In other words sony has a dangerous tool on their hands if it exceeds what the a77+a900 combo can do. The 1Dx was an attempt to outdo a 2 year old camera (D3s) like the 60D was to the D90... that backwards thinking is going to catch up sometime. At least nikon is testing the waters with the cx-mount system.

Posted 1 year ago #
PAG

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Rx4Photo said:
He's a Nikon shooter as well and feels that mirrorless systems will grow and cause the phasing out of these big DSLRs that we've come to admire.

Phase out of DSLR? Definitely. Phase out of big? Not a chance. I've read way too many comments by serious photographers about wanting a large body to hold onto. I bought a grip for my D7000 and it has made a big difference. I might eventually end up with a Nikon 1, but no matter how good it performs it won't be a replacement for my current sized camera.

When the mirrorless technology allows for all the performance of a DSLR (fps, EVF as good as optical, etc.), the mirror will go. Today the mirror serves a purpose, but there are so many other things that actually define the performance of the camera that the mirror could be dumped with few if any photographers shedding a tear.

Posted 1 year ago #
bjrichus

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Rx4Photo said:
Stuck in Customs.

Small sized sensors (and CPU programming techniques) will evolve to the point where EVENTUALLY a DX sized sensor could produce results that equal or better today's FX size sensors. Just how eventually is that? But this is not the question (I had to say that to keep this on-topic). LOL!!!

He does also bleat on about "3rd generation" cameras... all blah and talk, and his personal view. I am sure those who think labels are important will waffle on about it for ever.

I think the better question to ask (and the one most of us are really asking) is this:

"Will cameras with a flapping mirror be gone in 5 years time?"

Not the same question at all, is it?

Posted 1 year ago #
PB PM

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kyoshinikon said:
You haven't tried a sony a77 have you?

No, I wont buy Sony products on principal now days. I'm sure it is a nice camera, but from the reviews I've read it isn't that great. The buffer sucks, making the fast shooting speed worthless. Add the fact that you loose light to the translucent mirror and you have a camera I wont touch.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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I just cringe seeing this topic come up again - but as usual it has digressed into multiple topics.

I don't see m4/3,DX,FX,MF or almost any sensor size dying. I do see more invented just as the J1/V1 series. Just as there are different camera mounts, there will be different formats. What will kill the formats are not how good the quality they produce is, but languishing sales. DX & FX are standards and will not go anywhere soon. M4/3rds - I think Olympus's troubles and if the camera division survives, will be an indicator but it won't go anywhere soon.

Many tech ideas have died - remember Canon's follow the iris of your eye - auto focusing? Now that was great, but the older AF tech advanced enough that it was replaced. Will the flapping mirror go away? Canon's new 14fps utilizes the mirror lock up to achieve that FPS. Will the focus be on? Will the split second blackout hamper anything? We will wait to see. Many forget the mirror is an integral part in the auto focus systems. Sony modified it for video. (Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't see it as a revelation - translucent mirrors have been around for hundreds of years. It was only a matter of time.) The fact today is, AF of mirror-less cameras don't even come close and success rate are aided by larger depth of field of smaller sensors that have more leeway for error. Put that tech into a FX with a 1.2 DOF... Will our eyes want to look at a mini lcd-type screen over the clear viewfinder? In low light with my x100, I love it except that I can't see anything when I look away until my iris resets. In daylight, no, I still like the "real view".

We will all hit a point of what format, AF type, etc. that is best enough for EACH of our photography styles, needs and yes, price. At least for now and the next few cycles, I see more flowing to FX then flowing backwards to DX or smaller. At the same time I do see more people becoming "comfortable" with DX and smaller and feeling less of a need for FX. Is that statement earth shaking - not unless you are an ant on a marble.

Posted 1 year ago #
RonBurgandy

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Will the FX sensor find it's way into new Models less than the D800? I won't be able to spring for the d800 but I could get the d700. I'm just not sure that I want to buy a new, but "out dated" d700 when a new lower model might prove to be superior. I don't think any DX sensors could match the FX one in the d700, but if the extend their FX range to lower models, it just might.

Posted 1 year ago #
spraynpray

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So long as the camera has a viewfinder (and a bright one at that with no lag) and it uses the lenses I have now, I don't care what they call it. :-)

To me, all these cameras with only a screen to look at are a huge triumph of form over function or marketing over common sense. They show non-joined-up thinking when you compare even such basics as trying to achieve accurate composition at arms length, shooting in BRIGHT sunlight or on a windy day.

Posted 1 year ago #
andrewz

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A quick Google search tells me that an FX sensor cost as much as 20 times more than a DX sensor to manufacture. This probably won't change because it's partly based on the space the FX sensor takes up on the silicone wafer. One could imagine as sensor technology improves that DX and other small sensor might take up more of the market share.

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Gee whiz, I have never shot FX digital format, but have a D90 and D200 which actually can outperform my ability. And I have several of the new FX Nikkor's I use, as well as a D4 on order. But, the facts remain that once I have the new D4 body, someone will come out with a newer piece of equipment which will be better. And maybe the DX sensor will be improved so much that it will have all the richness of FX. My guess is that in five years a breakthrough will occur and the FX sensor will be unbelievable in quality and DX will be what most folks shoot. Money is what limits my having a Hassleblad, Leica, and Sinar or whatever they call them now, in my bag. My primary subject is actually people in everyday life. The limiting factor is not the size of the sensor, but one's ability to relate to the subject in a way which will evoke the photo. Sometimes I spend over twenty minutes with a model discussing the shots. It seems this leads to great shots with ease and the quality is just a technical extra. DX, FX, 2 1/4, makes little difference unless you are shooting billboards. Then 2 1/4 just might be a bit better.

Oh, gosh, does anyone read this besides me?

Posted 1 year ago #
rbrylawski

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msmoto......I read what you wrote and appreciate it!

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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andrewz said:
A quick Google search tells me that an FX sensor cost as much as 20 times more than a DX sensor to manufacture. This probably won't change because it's partly based on the space the FX sensor takes up on the silicone wafer. One could imagine as sensor technology improves that DX and other small sensor might take up more of the market share.

I have read the actual full FX cost is much higher than that when you add in the additional parts outside the sensor plus programming, etc. If they could make their margins and sell them cheaper, they would.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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Here is something interesting - from the newest DX camera - Fuji X-pro1.

ISO 6400 - (probably slightly Photoshop). Still my X100 is not that good and that is amazing noise control.

Posted 1 year ago #
rbrylawski

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Tao.....I just read about the Pro tonight. It sounds like an amazing camera for sure.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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I love my X100- the low light performance is amazing. I think it just shows that DX has moved to a new level and realistically have good enough low light for most users.

Posted 1 year ago #
golf007sd

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The Fuji X-pro1 does look good. In fact, it got the coveted CNET's Best of CES 2012 award over the D4.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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The new sensor design is amazing. Interviews I have seen is that it has been in design for 5 years. The camera at least 4. Since the S5 Fuji has been working on this. Amazing.

Posted 1 year ago #
PB PM

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The Fuji does look nice, at the very least it matches the D3/D700, not sure if it reaches D3s levels. In any case this shows that DX sensors can performance as good as last gen FX sensors.... err wait, that's kind of what should be expected yes? Comparing it to currently available FX cameras is a little silly, considering the sensors have been out since Fuji started to develop this camera (so they started development on those FX sensors 7-8 years ago).

Of course, I've said it before and will say it again, noise performance is not the only, or even best, reason to shoot 35mm frame cameras. They are just different beasts regardless of noise performance, IMO.

Posted 1 year ago #
andrewz

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I have no doubt that the DX sensor format will be around for a while but with the discontinuation of the D300s and no mention of a D400 makes me wonder if Nikon will stop making a Professional body DX camera.
Maybe there will be a surprise and will see a new D400 this summer!?

Posted 1 year ago #
DaveyJ

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The FujiX Pro1 does look good. Having owned a fair amount of medium, panoramic, and large format gear in the past Fuji would be a company that I could bet on. Thanks for calling my attention to this! I talk to a number of pros in the field when I shoot and it is amazing how MANY intend to make their next purchase of DX, Not FX. So despite the D4 introduction I see a D400 as Nikon's single best sales potential out there. Surely Nikon marketing and engineers are as aware of that as I am.

Posted 1 year ago #
spraynpray

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andrewz said:
I have no doubt that the DX sensor format will be around for a while but with the discontinuation of the D300s and no mention of a D400 makes me wonder if Nikon will stop making a Professional body DX camera.
Maybe there will be a surprise and will see a new D400 this summer!?

Say what? The D300s is still showing as current on the Nikon UK site - who says it is discontinued?

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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People have been impressed with the D7000 for some time now and certainly we will see two better DX cameras this year: the D400 and the D7100. When gushing reviews of those two cameras are out later this year ask again if DX is dead and people will laugh at the question. The more appropriate question to ask at that time may be: are the latest generation of DX sensors better than the last generation of FX sensors at about half the cost? Wouldn't it be wonderful if the answer is yes?

Posted 1 year ago #