where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
msmoto said:
As this has been going on for so long, I will share the real answer...... or a hint. It is found in step 96 of the solution to the Pythagorean theorem.Good luck.
Girl, if you are taking 96 steps to do that kind of thing, then you must be including a rain dance in there somewhere!
Look at the Fuji X-Pro-1. It is Leica M9 size and uses a DX size sensor. If Nikon produced a mirrorless rangefinder body this size using a DX sensor and the F-mount it would create a whole new category of cameras for the DX sensor. Perhaps Nikon could create a 35mm "pancake" lens to keep the camera compact.
I know Nikon chose a smaller size and smaller sensor when Nikon created their mirrorless camera so they must have considered this idea and passed on it.
donaldejose said:
Look at the Fuji X-Pro-1. It is Leica M9 size and uses a DX size sensor. If Nikon produced a mirrorless rangefinder body this size using a DX sensor and the F-mount it would create a whole new category of cameras for the DX sensor.
...and if it had an electronic viewfinder it would really eat into DX DSLR sales (!).
NikonMick said:
... but some folk here seem to want to off or end the thread, while I think continuous diuscussion, with well-thoughtout posts in a thread's history are very worthwhile...
Yes I do believe this thread should die. Once you learn 2+2=4 there is no point in saying 1000 different ways how 2+2=4. 10 pages now of no one saying DX is dead.
I respect all who have posted on here but honestly we all know it no one has really added anything new to the conversation but reconfigured and restated good thing about DX 6 ways to Sunday & then into Monday again.
This thread should have titled "I can not afford FX so I secretly desire the announcement of the death of DX, because I want FX."
This is one of those cathartic effects that people feel the need to go through.
That being said :)
donaldejose said:
Look at the Fuji X-Pro-1. It is Leica M9 size and uses a DX size sensor. If Nikon produced a mirrorless rangefinder body this size using a DX sensor and the F-mount it would create a whole new category of cameras for the DX sensor. Perhaps Nikon could create a 35mm "pancake" lens to keep the camera compact.I know Nikon chose a smaller size and smaller sensor when Nikon created their mirrorless camera so they must have considered this idea and passed on it.
I agree (but that is better put in to 6 other threads). Fuji is showing is that you can redesign DX sized sensors so they equal or surpass previous generations of FX sensors.
It would be great to get to a point that Sensor size is a choice of what someone wants to match their photography style rather than how much they feel a desire they should want.
I think we may be arriving at that point with the next generation of DX sensors starting with the D3200. Assume the next generation of DX sensors will provide a D800 sensor/software ability in a 24 megapixel DX size sensor. No one should need any more than that for any reasonable normal use.
donaldejose said:
Look at the Fuji X-Pro-1. It is Leica M9 size and uses a DX size sensor. If Nikon produced a mirrorless rangefinder body this size using a DX sensor and the F-mount it would create a whole new category of cameras for the DX sensor. Perhaps Nikon could create a 35mm "pancake" lens to keep the camera compact.I know Nikon chose a smaller size and smaller sensor when Nikon created their mirrorless camera so they must have considered this idea and passed on it.
Nikon, it would appear, have decided that the market segment which represents greater potential sales growth for the company lies with the smaller sized camera systems. I also believe the company "has their plate full" trying to resume normal production and development after the recently passed events.
I have noted that there is a big stack of 1 Series cameras at Costco which further confirms my conclusion that the 1 Series is intended to be a much more mass market product than any DX format EVF "rangefinder" camera. Just look at the difference in pricing of the 1 Series and the Fuji or Sony entries.
A EVF DX "rangefinder" would be interesting, but would require yet another new series of lenses as there would be little point in the camera if it only used existing F mount lenses with an adapter.
donaldejose said:
I think we may be arriving at that point with the next generation of DX sensors starting with the D3200. Assume the next generation of DX sensors will provide a D800 sensor/software ability in a 24 megapixel DX size sensor. No one should need any more than that for any reasonable normal use.
Donald... I agree. Professional photographers will always need to have right tool for the task at hand and in may cases that will be an FX (or larger format) camera.
Everyone else will be able to access more pixels and perhaps a step up in IQ levels for entry level prices... We'll see soon enough.
Ronin.1 said:
Nikon, it would appear, have decided that the market segment which represents greater potential sales growth for the company lies with the smaller sized camera systems.[ snip ]
I have noted that there is a big stack of 1 Series cameras at Costco which further confirms my conclusion that the 1 Series is intended to be a much more mass market product than any DX format EVF "rangefinder" camera.
There sure are lots of unsold "1" cameras out there... as well as people who cant tell the difference between a $75 5MP compact pocket camera purchased from a branch of CVS or Walgreens on the way out of the store as a "I need a camera" purchase and a D800 or D4 except one is bigger and heavier than the other.
The Nikon 1 had an odd target market in the USA - too expensive for a bubble pack on a CVS shelf but no better quality than a D3100 in a small package. If it helped bankroll Nikon out of Tsunami and flood damage, then great...
DX is being pressed from below by ever increasing quality from the lower end cameras that do the same but in a smaller package and now are we about to see FX come under the same kind of pressure from where the D3200 will lead us to (the D7200 - the next generation of DX)?
donaldejose said:
I think we may be arriving at that point with the next generation of DX sensors starting with the D3200. Assume the next generation of DX sensors will provide a D800 sensor/software ability in a 24 megapixel DX size sensor. No one should need any more than that for any reasonable normal use.
Hmmmm... It won't deliver D800 level quality. In my view, it could however, pave the way to kill off everything else Nikon does now in the SLR space, except the slew of next gen DX and D4/D800 level bodies.
I remember when 5mp was thought to be enough... ;-)
donaldejose said:
I think we may be arriving at that point with the next generation of DX sensors starting with the D3200. Assume the next generation of DX sensors will provide a D800 sensor/software ability in a 24 megapixel DX size sensor. No one should need any more than that for any reasonable normal use.
Agreed - in as much as Bill Gates said that on 640K of RAM :P
TBH they're probably going to 24MP for marketing reasons to compete against Sony. 24MP on a DX sensor is going to necessitate a new 18-55 kit lens design methinks ;P
The Nikon 1 system really knocks me for a loop. I have played with it, but not enough to know how it compares to say the D3100 but I'm willing to bet it could easily keep up with it. That lowest end of DSLRs (D3xxx) are really striped down when it comes down to it. I think most who buy the bottom two (d3xxx/d5xxx) really could easily just have a Nikon 1 or even a super zoom. Fuji hit the mark well with the X-S1 that hits that "I want a slr type of camera but don't want to mess with lenses" group. Damn good camera too.
I will be interesting to see what the general consumer pushes towards. Compact sales are decreasing rapidly as cell phones have taken over much of those sales and will continue too. That will leave the quality level compacts, high end compacts, super zooms, mirror-less and low end DSLRs to fight each other. I'm not sold on which will win.
I think mirrorless will win and the high end of morrorless will use a 24 mpix DX sensor. The same senor you can get in a D400 could be used in a high end DX mirrorless. The DX sensor will migrate downwards. The Fuji X-Pro-1 is the first of this new category.
donaldejose said:
I think mirrorless will win and the high end of morrorless will use a 24 mpix DX sensor. The same senor you can get in a D400 could be used in a high end DX mirrorless. The DX sensor will migrate downwards. The Fuji X-Pro-1 is the first of this new category.
No, I think the Sony NEX-7 (24MP) was first, and I also think a related sensor would make sense in a D400 given nikon's past history with sony. For example: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/01/25/nikon-d7000-has-a-sony-sensor-confirmed.aspx/
So it might be backward from the way you're suggesting—the D400 could inherit a sensor from a high-end mirrorless camera. This would not be a bad thing. The main complaint about the NEX-7's sensor so far is that there are basically no e-mount lenses that it doesn't out-resolve! (It sits between the D3 and the D3s sensor on dxomark sensor's ratings.)
Actually Samsung was first with the DX sensor - but I'm not sure who actually counts them as a camera company yet. The thought behind their new systems is there - performance is lacking. Sony Up'd the ante for sure and did set the bar. It also is dual focused on consumers and serious photogs and really has captured the market - if they can ever get the thing caught up with demand and production issues. The issue with it is the attaching larger lenses - it is just weird. Sure fun to see Leica Glass on it though. Fuji is in a different realm - just like the x100 it doesn't fit many photogs but the sensor does.
NSXType-R said:
It's enough for my uses. Seriously, I would have no need to upgrade if it had enough exterior controls and weather sealing is always nice.You can see that I really want a D7000. :D
Don't laugh. I used to get good results with 5 and 6 MP cameras, 10x8 or a little bit larger with a tripod is/was very obtainable. It was all about good technique and knowing what the printer was able to do [and not do] so you adjust the shot set up/zoom etc to fix the limitations.
My 10 and 12 MP images can go to 16x20" and I have done larger with those images but the printing process for posters limits quality with all those (huge) dots. LOL! Not that most of the display prints I do ever get larger than 16x20 either..
Cameras are input and storage devices and now 16MP is the 'average' and that's only going up with 24MP (DX) and 36MP (FX) will be where that goes to this year, so apart from pixel peeping, are we now in need of better output devices than the current crop of (even good quality) printers?
I was just wondering: Is DX dead?
Not anytime soon.
Dx will continue forever because Nikon can't keep FX in stock.
I'm losing the will to live because of this thread.....
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