where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
This is to gain some wisdom from those of you who have studio strobes, which also have a portability function. I am planning on purchasing about five or six 400ws units with heads, and am curious about what folks on this forum have found works best, is reliable, has the best warranty, can be transported. In other words, any feedback one has on studio/portable strobe equipment is appreciated. I will use multiple soft/umbrella set-ups.
Thanks all, Ms. Tommie Lauer
are you looking to buy monos or a pack?
I did extensive research on this before purchasing, so I can answer alot of questions.
The best options are:
Profoto - Pro 7 range, AcuteB, or others with BatPac
Broncolor - Verso and Mobil
Multiblitz - X10, Profilux 800/400/200 heads w/ Propac
Elinchrom - Ranger RX and Ranger Quandra
Hensel - Porty 1200/600, Premium Plus, Visit MPG with monos
Bowens - Explorer or Gemini with Travelpak
Priolite - MB500
Photoflex - Triton
The things to watch out for in protable studio lights.
1. Price
2. Weight
3. Power
4. Recycling time
5. Number of flashes on a charge and ability to load another battery
6. Asymetric ability
7. Warranty
8. Extensive modifier range
Based on all of this I decided on the Hensel Porty Lithium 1200 kit, plus a speed head.
If you have more questions, just ask.
Gareth as covered most points, I would add that when using Digital cameras recycling times can be a problem with cheap monobloc heads. This can also effect colour temperatures which will effect things like skin tones and colour cast. Plus check what flash tubes cost on any lights you think about buying. You might get a shock on cost Buy a good light meter, check with your camera for flash syncro speeds to make sure they are conpatable
Good Luck
The hardest thing in studio work is making your clients feel relaxed and comfortable, `thats something experience can only overcome
Has any one tried the Lencarta Safri Li-on
Gosh, thanks, so far... In the late 60's early 70's, I was using the Nikon F bodes and the Hassleblad's, with units which were each 400 ws with an umbrella. We had about six of these units and I cannot remember what they were. Shooting Ektachrome, ASA 64, I think, we had plenty of light. The umbrella was about 10-15 feet from the subject in many cases, on a high key white continuous permanent background made specifically for shooting models. I guess the lights would be called monos as each light had its own power source? As I remember, they used a photo cell for synchronization.
And I certainly agree about working with models and experience... we did a big campaign for Wachovia Bank (now defunct) and used everyday folks. Some actually froze under the lights and had to have about twenty minutes of warm up with the camera going with no film. We did this a lot with the amateur models as film was very expensive. However, in High Point, North Carolina, I shot dozens of panty hose packages. And to let a few cats out of the bag.... when I left photography and returned to medical school, on the shelves of the grocery store were my packages I had shot from a year or two earlier. And in my career over nearly thirty years in psychiatry having treated about 10,000 patients, I did learn how to get folks relaxed and at ease. But this is the primary gift which the real photographers who work with models posses, how to communicate with your subject. My query is really about my total lack of knowledge as to what the good studio/portable equipment is and so I will continue to listen.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Tommie
How much do you want to spend, this will be the first concern.
The Broncolor Verso is $7000 without heads!
>>The umbrella was about 10-15 feet from the subject in many cases...<<
Hmmm, at 15 feet you're essentially dealing with a point light source, unless you had a VERY big umbrella.
From my experience I have to say some of the cheaper Chinese models are actually pretty good, others are good but a bit slow. It's a bit of a hit-and-miss affair, but you can get good useful units if you look around. Is recycling time important for you? Depending on what you do it may or may not be. Some units are faster than others. For instance I have an 800 w/s Chinese Menik-brand LD-800 model that is very nice but has a 5-second recycling time. On the other hand my (also Chinese) Adorama Flashpoint units are only 150 w/s but have a .8 sec recycle time. The 300 w/s Flashpoint units are 1 sec. recycling time and their 600 w/s units are 3 sec. recycling on AC power. They have 300 w/s battery kits with 1.5 sec recycling time on batteries for $285. Their mounts are proprietary, however you can buy the same units with Bowens mounts from a fellow on ebay under the Mettle brand.
The Flashpoint/Mettle units are very good, but purely manual. One nice thing about some of the Menik unit models are that they can be remote-controlled. This obviously is a great boon if you have a unit rigged in a hard-to-get-to spot. My 800 w/s unit is remote-controllable and cost me only $230. The remote was $50, and can control up to 8 units on independent channels. So although somewhat slow it has it's advantages. It also has a battery option. If you look around you can find units that are faster, remote-able, and battery operated.
Other than perhaps the Alien Bees/White Lightning units, to me the Chinese units are the way to go. They're cheap, good, and get the job done.
Oh yeah, forgot about ab's.
the chinese units are OK. some are better than others. i wouldn't trust one for professional use though.
In using the umbrellas, in many cases they were stacked so as to get a soft line source. About 48" umbrellas three up made about a 10' high source. Nice on a standing model with other light heads bounced into white walls moved in on the "shadow" side. This gave about 1200Ws into the umbrellas.
Has anyone had experience with the Elinchrom D-Lite-4 IT 400Ws 2-Light To Go Set (90-260VAC) from B & H? I thought three of these kits at about $800 each would be nice and give 2400Ws. Or the Elinchrom BX-Ri 500/500 To Go Set - 2 Monolight Kit (90-260VAC) is an option and again a total of six units would give 3000Ws. The cost gets up to about $4000 however. I like the idea of running units at about 1/2 or 1/4 power as they always recycle quick enough so you can keep shooing. I am not one of those "jump on and ride" types but prefer a very gentle soft technique of direction with my subject. Still I usually shoot 4fps when using continuous source lighting.
When I refer to portable, I do not mean I need a battery. I would always have a generator which would provide power in a remote setting. So, the battery option is not necessary.
Again, thank you to all, I am learning....
OK, what you say makes senses, but why do you need so many heads? that is a huge amount to carry around, do you have help?
I have a hensel porty with 2 heads and three speedlights. when I get them the whole lot will be triggered by pocket wizards. atm the speedlights are in optical slave mode. I want a few other light mods that are small. I am by myself and have to carry everything. The main issue tends to be enough hands for the sand bags.
monos are a good option as they are totally asymetrical. you might like the priolites, which are a 500Ws mono with the lithium battery built in. I don't know about the warranty in the US though.
elinchrom are a good light, but I hate their mount.
Good question.... why so many heads.... much of the lighting I have done in the past is mmm.... well sort of specialized? I will place three umbrellas around in the center with a black tube about 24" square in the center through which I shoot the same sort of thing Peter Hurley shoots. Then I use a couple on each side of the background, and possibly one overhead for an accent. There are six already. Or, I will gang three or four umbrellas in a 10 foot circle (vertically) and have a nice "window light" again the background gets the other two. After schooling, my training was in small stuff in 1966, large furniture sets with models in the later 60's and then models and boats, furniture, and about everything else up until the year 1971 when I said goodby and went back to school. So, we would use a lot of lights, I was used to being a prima dona, meaning I carried very little, and basically behind my back i am sure the B word came up more than occasionally. I still like the ability to move lights around and maybe even use only a small piece of the whole light by cutting out with black curtain boards so as to get the effect I want. I have shot in totally black boxes and used four heads outside coming through only small slits in the box. Geez, you are going to know all my secrets now.
But, i still very much appreciate the help you are all giving me in making a decision on purchasing some new strobes. And I thank you all very much!
Location Monolight Strobe Systems:
Here's what I'm using for location work where there's no AC power available:
DynaLite Uni400 Jr. 400Ws AC/DC monolight + Dynalite 18" beauty dish + Dynalite Jackrabit II battery pack.
Speedotron Force 10 1,000Ws AC monolight + Speedotron 22" beauty dish + Paul C. Buff Vagabond Mini AC inverter/battery pack.
The Dynalites are popular location monolights for their AC/DC operation, compact size, and durability. Buy them used. I got the above, plus a Chimera quick-release speed ring (don't buy the "normal" kind--get the quick-release one), an 18" Dynalite beauty dish, and a Jackrabbit II battery, all for $550. My local BatteriesPlus rebuilt the Jackrabbit II for $50, and now it works like new.
The Speedotron, I bought as an open-box unit for about $200 under retail. I just happend to choose the Speedotron for its high output and long flash duration. I also have a Chimera speed ring for it, and a huge, 53" x 72" Photoflex softbox for it. The Vagabond Minis are the best deal in town for portable AC power. They do the same thing as a Profoto Batpack, but are much, much lighter, and a lot cheaper ($239). Basically, you could buy a couple of Vagabond Minis, and pair them with any two monolights that fit your price range and feature requirement.
I trigger everything wirelessly in manual mode with PocketWizard TT5s, but there are less-expensive options available as well (e.g, Phottix, Cactus, etc.).
I just checked B+H, and found a couple of very reasonably priced monolights, that if I were buying today, I would give a look at:
Elinchrom D-LITE4 IT 400Ws AC monolight $325
Bowens Gemini 400 400Ws AC/DC monolight $390
You could buy a couple of either brand, and two Vagabond Minis, and you would be good to go!
Studio Monolight Strobe Systems:
For studio use, I found that the problem is typically dialing down a given strobe's output to be low enough--most are too bright! The Paul C. Buff (PCB), Einstein E640 monolights are among the few monolights available with both very short flash duration (for freezing motion), and extremely wide power range, down to a minimum of only 4Ws. The EGBT-based system also supplies extremely consistent color temperature over its entire power range. The Paul C. Buff CyberSync remote control/RF triggering system is also extremely well-suited to studio set-ups, since it offers lots of memory for different set-ups, in addition to normal, remote-power control, and RF-triggering, over each strobe:
1. Paul C. Buff Einstein E640 640Ws AC monolight ($499)
2. CyberCommander hot-shoe mount--buy one of these and put it on your camera ($179)
3. CyberSync CSXCV transceiver for E640--buy one for each E640 ($29)
I plan to build a studio with as many E640s as I can afford. Also, the PCB line of modifiers offers everything from softboxes, strip boxes, fabric eggcrates, and parabolic umbrellas, all at a fraction of the price of competitors' models.
Note that when choosing a studio head brand, you're generally limited to that particular brand of modifiers [*see below]. This can be an important part of the decision on which brand of strobes you decide to go with--the available modifiers to fit your specific brand. Since PCB offers such a wide array of modifiers, all extremely affordable, going with all E640s can be a good way to go. But some prefer specific modifiers from other manufacturers, which aren't readily adaptable to other brands of strobe heads. Elinchrom is a good example of that--people love Elinchrom softboxes, but they're very pricey, and kind of only fit on Elinchrom heads. PCB does make an adapter for their PLM (parabolic light modifier) to put a Buff PLM onto an Elinchrom head, but not the other way around.
* [Photoflex, Chimera, and Westcott all make modifiers to fit most makes; however, all are different, and none are directly compatible with one another (for example, you can't put an Elinchrom softbox on a Dynalite head, or a Paul C. Buff modifier on a Speedotron head). A few adapter rings are available for mating certain brands of modifiers with others' strobe heads, but not all options are available. Each strobe manufacturer has engineered a slightly different way of mechanically mounting modifiers to their heads, so therein lies the crux of the problem.]
msmoto:
I just read your later posts . . . so you don't need DC-powerable strobes. Well, you can't go wrong with Elinchrom--plus, their modifiers are very nice, albeit, a little pricey. You also have Photoflex, Chimera, and Westcott modifiers to choose from, as I mentioned earlier. Also, instead of umbrellas, also consider large softboxes with fabric eggcrates, which will help to control spill a lot more effectively. I have a 53" x 72" Photoflex softbox for full-length shots, but have yet to spring for the pricey eggcrate they make for it. The Photoflex eggcrate is almost 10 times the cost of the slightly smaller, Paul C. Buff (PCB) eggcrate (e.g., $480 for the Photoflex 53" x 72" fabric grid vs. only $54.95 for the PCB 30" x 50" fabric grid).
Fantastic, B& H has a nice set, Elinchrom D-Lite-4 IT 400Ws 2-Light To Go Set which has two heads, soft boxes, stands, bags, triggers, ready to go for about $750... SO, I am thinking three sets should give me the versatitlty to control the light. And this seems quite reasonable. Stacking two units would give the full length lighting or even stacking three units to push the light more "skyward" has worked in the past with a white "high key" background.
The help from this forum has been invaluable. I thank everyone here.
Ms. Tommie Lauer
For price/quality ratio PaulC's stuff is hard to beat. I've been using AB800 units since 2003 with no issues whatsoever. The new Einstein strobes are even better as their color temp will remain constant thru their power range. All those can be powered on the road by Vagabond power packs and triggered with full power control by PW.
Well, here is an example of what I set up in a space about 9 feet by 10 feet... (2.7 x 3 meters)
This worked well. I do not get too excited about color balance unless it is really off. But the Elinchroms seem to be just about as close to right on as I can imagine. The Skylite triggers work well also. And very low current draw. Four units in a house where one might be worried about a coffee maker blowing a fuse. Not the first problem.
Just a note... 1/160 sec at f/11 made the ambient light from the window a non factor.
All very interesting. Anybody have any experience with cheap, I mean inexpensive Monolights. When I did work with studio lights, it was always Normans or Speedotrons with big heavy power pack and of course, that is what I would like to have. Now you can get an Impact 3 monolight kit 1500w/s total, from B&H for $999.99. That’s cheaper than a couple of SB-910’s.
Anyone have any experience with these light?
@andrewz
What you see in the photo above is two sets of Elinchrom D-Lite-4 IT 400Ws 2-Light To Go Set (90-260VAC) at $807 each or $1614 for 1600 WS of power. These come with the "Skylite" triggers, stands, everything one needs. Very easy to set up. Compact when transported. All of what you see went into a Smart fortwo including tripod, camera case, background and stand. These were running on about 250 ws each as I remember. I know that is $600 more than you had quoted for the Impact kit but the quality is outstanding and the ease of use really nice. It does take about an hour to completely set up, test and be ready for the models, and to take it down almost as long. But, this includes into the car. Very nice light quality from these soft boxes and one can also use these with umbrellas.
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