Rummer said:
One site seems to suggest that the lack of AA filter for video could be pretty bad. .
Good point. I don't do video at the moment. Having watched the Mark Miller video, it is something I want to try
D800 Discussion Thread
(431 posts) (110 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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donaldejose said:
The images look really great. But I want to see what ISO 6400 images look like. All the samples are low ISO. Is there a reason for that? The D4 samples included some 3200 and 6400 ISO photos. Is Nikon hiding (or at least not promoting) something? We will see. I sure would like to order one if it can produce clean high ISOs. I don't want to stay at or below ISO 640 as the sample images do.I just check the D800 Sample Images 5 , ISO 320, ithink it is very noisy.
Sample Images 6 it is outstanding, WOW.Posted 1 year ago # -
The D800 specs are largely just as predicted so no huge surprises. THE burning question remains until we can see samples at high ISOs - Does the D800 match the low noise performance of the D700 at the highest native ISOs? My instincts still say no for several reasons: The absence of official samples beyond 640 ISO ( Are Nikon hiding something, althought the promo video does look excellent quality in low light? Suspect low video noise doesn't necessarily mean low stills noise); Parity of the D800 with the D700 at high ISOs WOULD probably have "some" effect on initial sales of the D4; Contrary to earlier reports, the D700 is NOT being discontinued at present as it surely WOULD be if it's only real advantage over the D800 was it's faster fps; the D800 does not sadly offer the D4's useful option of backlit controls which it surely WOULD do if it was intended for use in very low light conditions.
If the D800 can only match the D7000 for noise levels I may well be one of the thousands looking to buy a new or used D700 with the bulky D4 well out of my price range. I'll be disappointed if this is my only option after waiting for so long as I've been excited about the prospect of low light shooting plus full HD DSLR video capabilities for a while and the D800 does sound awesome on video and almost on a par with the D4. It feels as though Nikon are trying to coerce keen amateurs into buying 2 bodies like pros (eg. D800 & D700) in order to be able to cover all types of photography and video which is a shame in the current economic times.
4fps does seem a bit too low for a camera of this price range but I could live with that if the noise is acceptable. Another omission from the D800, not deal-breaking but still regrettable - lack of an articulated screen which would've been highly useful with video in particular. I'll also be gutted if it doesn't have the D4's ability to capture a still (low resolution only) during filming without interrupting the video. I can think of many situations I'd find this invaluable but no mention of it in the specs I've read so far. Pleased to see that the D800 DOES have a "quiet" single shot mode, something I've wanted for many years for use in theatres etc.
Not wanting to be totally negative, the D800 does indeed sound an amazing camera for the purposes for which it is intended and fills a clear gap in Nikon's range. The insane high resolution, improved focussing system, high dynamic range and video are all fantastic advancements in technology. It's just that the expectations of a true D700 replacement with modest improvements in ISO and MP with full HD video, which has been rumoured for SO long, have inevitably led to disappointment amongst a huge section of users, myself included, who value low noise at high ISO as a main priority. The prospect of spending more time in post-processing, even if it is possible to achieve noise-free images by "downsampling", is not something I relish along with handling the larger file sizes! I do believe that Nikon will eventually succumb to an affordable mini D4 due to sheer demand but it may take some time and I'm not sure I can go on waiting very much longer. It'll be interesting to see how many D700 lovers switch to the Canon 5D Mark 3 if that has improved low light performance and focussing alongside full HD video as rumoured. I've wanted to go Nikon for quality for so long I doubt I'll consider the Canon option even though I'm still currently with Canon!
I'll reserve judgement until we get to see the results of demanding tests on the D800. Nikon USA Press Centre talk of the D800's " incredible low-light video capability", backed up by the promo video. Re stills they also say:
" For shooting with minimal noise in a variety of lighting conditions, the D800 features a wide native ISO range of 100-6400, expandable to 50 (Lo-1)-25,600 (Hi-2). Nikon engineers have created innovative ways to manipulate light transmission to the sensor’s photodiodes, giving users the ability to SHOOT WITH CONFIDENCE IN CHALLENGING LIGHTING CONDITIONS. Internal sensor design, an enhanced optical low pass filter (OLPF) and 14 bit A/D conversion with a high signal to noise ratio all contribute to a SENSOR CAPABLE OF EXCELLENT LOW LIGHT ABILITY DESPITE THE EXTREME RESOLUTION. Every aspect of this new FX-format sensor is engineered to deliver AMAZING LOW NOISE IMAGES THROUGH THE ISO RANGE and help create astounding tonal gradation and true colors, whether shooting JPEG or RAW. Images are further routed through a 16-bit image processing pipeline, for maximum performance."
Whether these are just words or a reality we all can't wait to see I'm sure!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't know if it is my eyes at this time in the morning or my monitor, but these images are not that sharply in focus. The woman at 640 ISO's eyes are definitely not in focus. Maybe it's me.
DaveO
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just to lighten up the forum... This camera looks fantastic and will no doubt far outreach my ability. The exciting part is the promotional video.... Having ridden a Suzuki Hayabusa for over 10,000 miles, I know how crazy this ride was. Lane splitting is highly illegal in Chicago, and coming across the river on the metal bridge surface will allow the rear tire to spin wildly. But for a biker gal, now a bit old for this type riding, this video is exciting. And the fact i did the other part, although not an Ob-Gyn, was also especially meaningful.
So, let's all applaud Nikon for this super promo video and watch it again.
Oh, as to the camera specs... I cannot speak for anyone else, but many of my D90 images have gone to 20" x 30" print and when viewed from a proper distance of more than six feet are razor sharp. The discussions of the difference in the D800E and D800 reminds me of the hi end audiophiles who think they can tell the difference between a $10,000 speaker and a $50,000 speaker. Probably more in the imagination. Hope I did not irritate anyone. I am still so hyped up after watching the video!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ok...ok...after reading and watching the promo video...I could not help myself and accidentally (yah right :P) clicked on Amazon's 1-Click Pre-Order button. I figure, it will be sometime in April or March before I get it and if I change my mind on the unit (yah right again) I just might sell it and make some coin for those that miss out on the pre-order. So much for waiting till summer.....arrrrrrr!!!! (LMFAO)
Cheers.....
Posted 1 year ago # -
zlik said:
So, who will be selling his D3s to get a D800 ??Not me. I don't need that resolution, 4 fps would be useless and I don't shoot video. There isn't quite enough in a D4 (without using video) to make me feel justified in parting with £4800 for one, so it looks like I'm going to stick with what I have. Maybe a D4s with twin XQD slots, 13 fps, and "Two" stops better low light performance might do it for me? Anyone fancy trying 400,000 ISO :-)
Posted 1 year ago # -
For all those who worry about the huge files this camera will generate, there is a solution. If you can stand it, don't shoot RAW. JPEG, and especially JPEG basic makes a huge difference in file size. Would it make a huge difference in image quality? Would you lose much of the detail, or dynamic range, the sensor collected?
If I am reading the Japanese website correctly a JPEG fine large size file is about 16.3 mb. A JPEG fine medium size file is about 10.4 mb. A JPEG basic large size is about 4 mb and a JPEG basic medium size is about 2.7 mb. These file sizes are't much greater than what many of us now run through our computers. So we need not fear the file size of the D800 unless we shoot RAW.
http://www.nikon-image.com/products/camera/slr/digital/d800/spec.htm
I like how a D800 could be adopted to your needs. If you are shooting "ordinary" stuff, you can shoot in JPEG basic (or normal or fine) to save on file size. If you need a bit more reach, you can switch to DX mode. If you want ultimate control over the image you can switch to RAW. Basically, you have many cameras in one, including a HD video camera. Seems like a good deal.
But will it be too noisy at high ISO? Don't know. I hope the words lynne24 quotes from Nikon prove to be true.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Wataru said:
I'm looking at the specs and the D800 uses the EN-EL15 battery. The is the same as the D7000 (and the V1). It also uses the ML-L3 wireless remote. Great news, as there is some compatibility with stuff I already have.Yep, another reason I'll probably stay put. Having the same battery in both my 3s and 700 is lovely, I've got 2 spares that I can put in whichever camera konks out first (which hardly every happens because the batteries last all day) hang on, did I mention battery life? +1 to staying put.
Posted 1 year ago # -
donaldejose said:
For all those who worry about the huge files this camera will generate, there is a solution. If you can stand it, don't shoot RAW. JPEG, and especially JPEG basic makes a huge difference in file size.You're right Donald, but that suggestion is a bit like saying "For all those who worry about the huge fuel bills this Ferrari will generate, there is a solution. If you can stand it, don't do more than 30 miles an hour and turn your engine off at traffic lights! Not really worth investing in if you're not going to use what it has to offer in my opinion.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'll pass on this camera. I don't need 36MP ad I don't use video-- D4 sensor in a smaller body would be better.
Donaldejose raises an interesting solution and I'm sure the numbers are right but I can't justify spending $3K on a camera body that I'm then going to use a "half power". Sensors are getting better and cheaper. So I'll just wait I think. Whether I'm waiting for the D400, a price drop on D4, or something else as yet un-numbered, time will tell.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Love this forum
The choice D4 ? D800? D800E?S
Sit on the fence?
Sit on a Suzuki Hayabusa:)Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh. My. I'm actually very impressed with the image quality of the samples, even @ ISO-640. I do wish they showcased a few shots in the ISO-3200 range, at least. I suspect high-ISO NR doesn't even kick-in until about ISO-1000 and when it does, Nikon will have found a way to clean the image nicely, especially since so much detail is present in the image. Nikon has always done a great job in the NR dept. The detail in the library shot taken with the D800 and n14-24 was jaw-dropping. I'm looking for a D800E, because I need all of the sharpness I can get for my HDR and landscape work as well as studio stuff. I didn't see any Moire that bothered me in those samples, but that's not to say it can't happen in real-world shooting.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The library shot is indeed "jaw dropping".
Posted 1 year ago # -
guys... sorry if I offend some of You but I really don't want to see posts like that: I bought this d800e and it's a crap. If You are going to order the d800/d800e and it's Your first move toward FX cameras than please reconsider. Why:
- first of all, both d800 and d800e produce files that doesn't forgive You as much as from any other nikon cameras - 36mpx it's a lot of resolution, if You wanna put a cheap lens on it - forget it, buy d700 and Your results will be much better
- the absence of AA filter on d800e makes it even harder to take good snaps, as You have to look carefully for the moire
- You gonna need a lot of horse power in Your box to process the images, 4gb of ram may not be enough, that's where ssd comes very handy and where 8-16gb of ram sound good - also forget using 32bit application for good workflow
- we all seen the images and they are stunning, the details are amazing, but... do You have enough of support and knowledge to snap images like that
You've been warned :) and now prepare Your cards and order the cameras :)one more thing... please don't expect anything above iso1600 will be fully usable, that's not what this camera was build for. it's a studio/landscape camera, nothing more nothing less. please remember that before placing Your order. it ain't direct d700 replacement. IMHO it's more like d3x replacement for a fraction of price.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just a FYI...
Adorama offers free shipping
B&H wants $25 for shipping (Edit #1: Is free now, was not so in the morning est time)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm still hyper-ventilating here after taking the plunge and ordering the D800E. I plan to use it for landscapes and the like, mainly wide-angle stuff. I'm not a pro, but I use my camera in my work.
I reckon I'll need some time (and money) to buy the lenses to fully match its potential.
At the moment, I have the following FF lenses left over from my film days:
- 20mm AF f2.8D
- 35mm AF f2.0D
- 50mm AF f1.4DI'll see how these perform with the D800E. If they are good, I'll probably buy the f4 zooms. If not, I may have to buy f2.8 zooms.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Talking with a few people, I think having the D800 and D800E will hurt the pre order sales until the results of removing the AA filter are proven. I know at least 3 people who are going to wait until we know for sure what we are dealing with. I think either camera will be great but to spend over 2k you really want to know what your adding/lossing before you hit the "order" button.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@scoobysmak: I never would have guessed that. I'm not saying you're wrong--you're very likely right if three people are all saying the same thing to you. But coming in, I thought the targets in the 800E market already knew who they were. That is, if a shooter knew he wanted a camera without AA filter, he'd buy the 800E, and anybody on the fence would just err or the side of caution and get the straight 800. What you report is really interesting, and implies to me that incrementally fewer 800E will be sold and incrementally more plain-800 will be sold...and as you point out, there'll be a couple more months for people to join my group and say "this isn't exactly what I'm looking for; I think I'll hang on for Something Else".
@adamz: well-spoken, but with D700 supply drying up, it may end up being too late for people jumping to FX to consider D700 (at least new D700) if a hands-on week of 800 doesn't suit them.
Posted 1 year ago # -
dormant said:
I'm still hyper-ventilating here after taking the plunge and ordering the D800E. I plan to use it for landscapes and the like, mainly wide-angle stuff. I'm not a pro, but I use my camera in my work.I reckon I'll need some time (and money) to buy the lenses to fully match its potential.
At the moment, I have the following FF lenses left over from my film days:
- 20mm AF f2.8D
- 35mm AF f2.0D
- 50mm AF f1.4DI'll see how these perform with the D800E. If they are good, I'll probably buy the f4 zooms. If not, I may have to buy f2.8 zooms.
I make money delivering documentation about the setup and operation of scientific and imaging equipment, and the high resolution will help me a lot, as I can take one photo, and crop several illustrations of what I need to describe.
But I ordered WITH the AA filter. I don't have time to mess with false color correction, and getting my photos into my product documentation quickly is how I make money, not working out correcting images. I'm an engineer, not a photoshop artist. I took the advice of the pros who say the E is for people coming from medium format background who are used to aliasing and know what to do about it, and the improvement is sharpness is not going to be seen in the kind of work I do.
I've got a lot of manual focus lenses going back to my film days, but I'm looking forward to going all digital all the time. I do have the 17-35 2.8 as it works on my manual cameras, but I am going to start acquiring G lenses now. Again, my motivation is getting from making the photograph to publishing my product documentation as quickly as possible. My next lens will be a macro to replace my venerable 55mm 2.8.
Posted 1 year ago # -
adamz said:
.... please don't expect anything above iso1600 will be fully usable, that's not what this camera was build for. it's a studio/landscape camera, nothing more nothing less. please remember that before placing Your order. it ain't direct d700 replacement. ....A lot of us older folks are used to film, and in my case I never shot faster than ASA 400 (that's ISO400 to you youngsters.) Shooting at 1600, 100, 50, 800 or whatever, whenever, is a luxury that I never had before. I won't say I couldn't use ISO12,800, but I'm not losing sleep over not having it. I still have exposure time and aperture to work with, and I have acquired some very nice, fast prime lenses over the years.
Posted 1 year ago # -
adamz said:
guys... sorry if I offend some of You but I really don't want to see posts like that: I bought this d800e and it's a crap. If You are going to order the d800/d800e and it's Your first move toward FX cameras than please reconsider. Why:
- first of all, both d800 and d800e produce files that doesn't forgive You as much as from any other nikon cameras - 36mpx it's a lot of resolution, if You wanna put a cheap lens on it - forget it, buy d700 and Your results will be much better
- the absence of AA filter on d800e makes it even harder to take good snaps, as You have to look carefully for the moire
- You gonna need a lot of horse power in Your box to process the images, 4gb of ram may not be enough, that's where ssd comes very handy and where 8-16gb of ram sound good - also forget using 32bit application for good workflow
- we all seen the images and they are stunning, the details are amazing, but... do You have enough of support and knowledge to snap images like that
You've been warned :) and now prepare Your cards and order the cameras :)one more thing... please don't expect anything above iso1600 will be fully usable, that's not what this camera was build for. it's a studio/landscape camera, nothing more nothing less. please remember that before placing Your order. it ain't direct d700 replacement. IMHO it's more like d3x replacement for a fraction of price.
Well said! I am just waiting to see how many buy a D800E and complain about odd color, jagged edges and moiré. Or how soft it is with their 35-70mm.
The one thing that is stumbling my step is what will the D400 sensor resolution (pixel pitch) be. If it is close to the D800 I am not liking that.
Amazing files though!
Posted 1 year ago # -
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I must admit, this D800 announcement has, I believe, generated more excitement than the D4 announcement. Not only is it 1/2 the price of the D4 but the D800 IQ is also being compared by some to medium format IQ. That is a big deal IMO. My plan is to sit on the sidelines for the next several months and read and view images produced by the D4 and D800. Should be very interesting.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It would be great if they had the D80/D800E/D4 picture a day thread to compare directly, just kidding. I would say I do not go in and read EXIF data (because I never learned how or what I needed) so if you do use one of these cameras and post in the PAD thread please let us know what camera you used.
Posted 1 year ago #
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