gentoo - and in my case, I guess if this day will ever happen I'll go for sony, there's going to be a new 500/4 released with a850 - and it sounds tempting (depends on the price of course)
"Most exciting.....DSLR(s)...coming"(84 posts) (14 voices)
No! Gentoo don't do it....think of the birds!:^)
jbl, Sony wants more market share but they have a long long road ahead to get there. Yes they've got some great lenses (I love the 135 f1.8) and Sony and I go way back together but they are NOT up to the Nikon canon challenge. Not even in two or five years.
Currently Sony is just mass producing cameras. Their DSLRs are like Nikon's COOLPIX cameras. Every six months or so they make announcements and every three months after that the cameras are all but forgotten. The exception was the a900 and soon a850, but only because of "cheap" 24megapixels. No one really praises anything else about the camera.
As for video, Sony themselves have said that they will not put it in their DSLRs until the technology is perfected. Well that's great but I think canon and Panasonic pretty much have it down just about right. I believe Leica said the same thing about going digital. "We won't build a digital camera until the technology matches film". Yeah, Leica's still trying to get that right!
I worry about Nikon playing catch up with video too. But remember that they use to make dedicated video cameras back in the day. And the D300S is proof that they are working on improving things. It's the first Nikon to auto focus during video capture so that's going in the right direction but we will see.
Nikodoby, for bird shooters Canon is actually the friendliest as far as lenses go. The majority of wildlife shooters, birders in particular use Canons for this reason. I really prefer my Nikons though as they just feel better and are smarter ergonomically and offer more and better controls.
As gentoo wrote - majority of wildlife shooters use Canon, as they have a wider range of lenses, with more affordable prices than the ones from Nikon, I also can't agree with You NikoDoby that Son will not catch up with Nikon and Canon in the period of five years, as they working really hard to do this, and to gain market share, and with a good pricing and timing they can do this sooner than everyone expect.
Slightly off topic, but the Sony A380 only does 2.5 frames per second. My D40 from 3 years back does 2.5 frames per second. What the hell is wrong with Sony? Such horrible features!
I don't do sports photography, but that's also exactly why I don't do sports photography!
Also, it has the smallest viewfinder of all DSLRs, according to DPreview. Sure, you have live view, but apparently the screen washes out in daylight, making it useless.
That's my point NSX. Sony is just throwing out new DSLRs every 6 months or so but they aren't offering anything ground breaking or anything that's going to make canon or Nikon users turn their heads. The only model that did that was the a900 because of the 24mp and "low" price.
If Sony's new a850 hits the store shelves with a price of $2000US, THEN they will have everyone's attention. But I don't think an "affordable" full frame is gonna happen from Sony now. :^( At least not this year.
I think Sony wants the glory of their Playstation 1 days. They just stepped into the video game console wars and right away made a BIG dent against Nintendo and Sega. It didn't take long for the PS1 to become THE game console. It's not gonna happen that way with their DSLRs. It's going to take more than 5 years to make canon and Nikon nervous!
"I think Sony wants the glory of their Playstation 1 days. They just stepped into the video game console wars and right away made a BIG dent against Nintendo and Sega. It didn't take long for the PS1 to become THE game console. It's not gonna happen that way with their DSLRs. It's going to take more than 5 years to make canon and Nikon nervous!"
I would have to agree Niko. Sony is an electronic company. Canon is an electronic imaging company with a few other tidbits. Nikon is an imaging company first and foremost.
I have a CD/DVD player thats a Sony. I had a walkman that was a Sony (I broke the damn thing). I have a SLR-like point and shoot thats a Sony. My roomate had a CD burner that was a Sony.
I have a Canon point and shoot. I had a Canon printer.
The only things I have with Nikons name on them are cameras and lenses. They also do microscopes and steppers. All optical things. Sony does not need to compete with Nikon and Canon for a big market share because they have the electronics market everywhere else and IMO, Nikon and Canon are better at this game.
You can clearly tell that Sony has a very short photographic history and experience. Their cameras are trying to be different but sometimes that makes them odd to operate. Try to operate their new A230, 330 and 380 and they just don,t fell right. They are odd to hold onto and controls and menu are not all that user friendly. They sell on low cost, but that means they fall real fast in value. I will stick with Nikon and hope that some day Nikon does not have to get their sensor from Sony anymore, maybe it should be from Fuji if they can make them at higher MP and FX size.
bmxdad - indeed sony doesn't have a long dslr history, but minolta (now the sony's dslr division) has a long slr history
Adamz - but do they still have that Minolta feel to them, the A700/900 maybe, the other A*** not very much
"maybe it should be from Fuji if they can make them at higher MP and FX size."
Let's hope not Fuji. I forget what it's called now but the technology in the Fuji sensors is the reasons Fuji's aren't grabbing the market either.
As far as Minolta is concerned, they were bought out. That means they weren't very strong so Sony can have them.
It is called EXR and only found on more expensive Fuji models, actual their EXR cameras, like my Fuji 200EXR takes very good pictures, just look at reviews and comparisons to other similar cameras from other brands.
We have sold lots of them, but Fuji is a lesser known brand and therefor does not have that great a market share. However I don't believe that has a direct relation to the quality of their EXR style sensor
Like I said before I would love to see what a Fuji EXR sensor could do in a Nikon camera
gentoo - "As far as Minolta is concerned, they were bought out." - gentoo that's because minolta was only an imagining company
The Problem with the Fuji EXR sensor is that its better to call it a Jack of all Trades and master of none. The sensor basiclly can reconfigure itself for 3 different senarios. The Three modes are
1.High Sensitivity and Low Noise
2.Wide Dynamic Range
While this seems to be a good thing it doesnt do any of these modes exceptionally well.
The other problem that I have with the sensor is that it interpolates.
By that I mean that if they advertise 12megapixels its really 6 interpolated to 12 using a mathematical algorithm to guess the missing data.
Yes, NikoDoby, I would agree there- Sony doesn't have the imaging experience as Canon and Nikon, but they do have Minolta, and that's something there, better than nothing.
I do agree as well though, they are a electronics first company.
How come Fuji isn't doing better if their sensors are supposed to be so great?
In regards to the Fuji EXR sensor, if you look at specks and review on Dpreview they list as 12MP effective pixels and the camera rated very well in comparison to any other P & S camera
Yes the old Fuji S5 etc were actual 6 MP cameras and had problems. No I don't like to see another Fuji SLR, but would like to see how a Nikon SLR would perform with a Fuji EXR sensor, actual effective 12MP DX or 24MP FX. I don't know if it can be done, if Fuji could even attempt to do it.
Then maybe we should get a sensor from Kodak
I have a Fuji S5 pro DSLR. it uses the super CCD sensor. and it is doing well for a niche camera. at one stage almost all wedding photographers were using it because of its wide dynamic range. it still has the best DR of any current camera. However it does interpolate to 12 MP when it is really a 6mp camera ie its got 12 MP photosites in pairs of 2 photo sites. (in the traditional sense.) in effect it does do better than 6 mp but not as good as a 12MP.
To be fair all sensors interpolate. the nikon/sony/canon sensors may have 12PM photo sites but they are made up of 2 greens 1 red and 1 blue so you really get only 3MP "pixels" but its mathematically interpolated to 12 MP. they all "guess" at missing data.
The Faveon has sensors that are 4.7 MP in density but each Pixel can distinguish the 3 colours so they interpolate that to 14MP
Its all maths .. you really cant single out Fuji for doing it.
However the new EXR technology from Fuji is much closer to the Nikon/Sony/canon method of counting MP. It does have 12MP photo sites and at high resolution mode it does create a 12 MP image just like the Nikon sensors. In high DR mode it groups pairs of sensors and uses one of each pair in a higher ISO mode in effect taking 2 x 6MP pictures at once one at higher ISO and the other at a lower ISO and then doing a HDR merge of the result to get the HDR images at 6MP. similarly for the high ISO capability the pairs of photosites are combined to act as one photo site that is double the size so it becomes in effect a 6MP sensor with its higher ISO capability. I dont really agree that they are jack of 3 trades and master of none tech. It would be nice to see the EXR sensor in a D300S body. Say a 24MP EXR sensor that does High DR at 12MP and high resolution at 24mp? hmm.. that would be nice!
As for how come they are not doing as great if their sensors are that good? its almost never the best technology that wins the day. Marketing and business savy plays a big part in what gets us to take money out of our pockets.
I think we need to ask heartyfisher about this one. He actually uses a Fuji S5. But the Fuji's I've handled have been good. Especially in dynamic range and color detail. I think Fuji cameras got a bad reputation during the Megapixel War. I like the idea behind the S series DSLR's.
We've got to ask heartyfisher
Wow heartyfisher that was fast!!!
So going back to the original post Looks like the canon 7D WILL NOT be full frame or APS-H. Surprise!
It's just APS-C. Bad part is that the price might be around the 5DmkII!!!! But it will have dual processors to power 1080 HD and a high frames per second. Rumored to be as high as 22fps becoming the world's fastest camera! So this camera will definitely be for sports and wildlife photographers for the speed and crop factor.
The other cool rumor is that it will have a non-moving mirror that is electronically made to become transparent. Cool, if true or maybe it's all BS.
Also canon might be announcing something like a Nikonos underwater video camera.
the biggest problem with S5pro is it's speed, this camera is soo slow - would love to use it for it's DR though
Yeah .. its not a sports photographer's camera .. still 2 FPS is not that much slower than 2.5 FPS which is what you get on the D300 when in 14bit mode(to get a bit more detail). and you can change mode(no HDR) and get 3.5 FPS on the S5. But for all other types of photography(non sports).. Its fast enough .. I think..
I think the only reason to shoot in 14 bit mode is for landscaping. I've never heard of sports and certainly not wildlife photographers having a need for 14 bit although I've played with it a few times.
So the a850 is now officially official and it's the first 24mp full frame for $1999US !!!! This spells trouble for the Nikon DXXX line for sure!!!
gentoo - trust me that once You will get 5-6fps with 14bit raw You will use it, at least that's what I would do
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