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FPS The machine gun approach

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sevencrossing

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studio460 said:
Not sure if the D800 can service as a second body for event shooting due to its limited FPS rate--still trying to figure this one out myself.

I have used double dark slides ( change film after each exposure )
and used to do weddings on roll film ( change film after 12 exposures)
so the concept of shooting at 4+ fps is a novel idea to me but I am getting used to it
When doing doing weddings and events how many frames per pose do you guys shoot, how do you do the editing and how you cope with flash, do you all use Quantum's

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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I rarely do weddings, but I can tell you a couple of things.

when I shoot burst, it is usually only 3-4 shots. a high fps just means these shots only cover a fraction of a second. I still wait for the right second, so this doesn't differ from shooting single shot, or sheet or roll film for that matter. where it differs, is that I can choose the shot of the sequence that was the best. the best is usually the most sharp, the best composed, or both.

if i use a flashgun, it's OK to cover this fps, as long as the power is not on full (i tend to use manual).

I haven't tested my sb800 and sb700, but I have tested to see the power vs fps ratio with my hensel lithium porty 1200.

here are the results

power setting : fps

4.0 (18J) : 6fps
5.0 (38J) : 5fps
5.6 (60J) : 3fps, from here I can use two heads
6.0 (75J) : 3fps
7.0 (150J) : 2fps
8.0 (300J) : 1fps
8.0+ (300-1200J): less than 1 fps

once the lights are set up I just set the CL (continuous low speed) to the fps I want and then forget about it .

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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My style of shooting is very reportage, I'm trying to get better with posed shots, but it's not what I enjoy. Because of this I always have all my cameras set on CH, so that they're ready for action when needed. Most the time I'll only give a shot a double tap, but for things like the BQ throwing or a kiss, I let rip to make sure I get 'that' shot. again because of my style of shooting I don't tend to use much flash, where it's necessary (dark reception or sitting down for dinner) yes I use a power pack.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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Thanks Gareth and SkintBrit

SkintBrit how important is the fps during that short bust
the D4 goes upto 11 fps my D700 is limited to a mere 8

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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It seems like the only time I utilize the FPS is for children portraits (avail light) where I get them playing and try to capture them moving, a little with sports but not much, and some wildlife. I delete 90% at the first pass through on my work flow but it slows me down as many times it is nit-picking the sharpest photo. For events, I find the "machine gun" sound distracts people and with a SB-900 I get about 1 out of 3 that are lit so I have just learned to wait for the moment.

I can see where sports and some wildlife shooters need it, but at 6fps, I find the shots crammed so close together nothing changes. At 8, 10, 12, 14 I don't have any need for that. I set the CFL to 2FPS and the CFH to 4 for children portraits - anything faster and the buffer fills and I miss the "series" I really want.

From various posts on the blog about the D800, some sound like some really rely on it for everything - others I think want Nikon to beat Canon in every tech detail.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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TaoTeJared said:
....anything faster and the buffer fills....

Thanks Tao "hitting the buffers" suddenly takes on a whole new meaning :)

Posted 1 year ago #
bjrichus

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TaoTeJared said:
It seems like the only time I utilize the FPS is for children portraits (avail light) where I get them playing and try to capture them moving, a little with sports but not much, and some wildlife. I delete 90% at the first pass through on my work flow but it slows me down as many times it is nit-picking the sharpest photo. [...] I get about 1 out of 3 that are lit so I have just learned to wait for the moment.

Seconded. I have almost got exactly the same story to tell, except I tend to delete, well, I *TRY* to delete 2 out of every 3 or 4 in camera and then choose the ONE keeper when back at base and can view on a nice big screen. Not quite as many as 90% then...

TaoTeJared said:
anything faster and the buffer fills and I miss the "series" I really want.

HAHAHAHA... and I thought I was the only one to get frustrated by that! I put it down to lack of skill on my part, shooting and then wait like that, just as the real action happens and my buffer is still emptying onto the card.

What was that about waiting for the decisive moment and getting it in one frame? Is it becoming a lost art these days? By the way, I have almost lost count of the number of times I have looked at a series and thought "Somewhere between frame #1 and frame #2 (or #2 and #3) would have been just PERFECT". Henri C.B. will be turning in his grave... ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
NSXType-R

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I have to wait for the decisive moment when your max FPS is 2.5.

However, when shooting kids I always let it rip and choose whichever one I want later.

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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sevencrossing said:
Thanks Gareth and SkintBrit

SkintBrit how important is the fps during that short bust
the D4 goes upto 11 fps my D700 is limited to a mere 8

For weddings 6-8 is more than enough in my experience. I have however COMPLETELY MISSED shots at 10fps at some air shows and other theatrical events I've been commissioned for. For me fps is very important in my choice of camera. As I mentioned in another thread, I only use extreme pro cards, and very rarely fill the buffer. Like TTJ said, you just have to be a bit careful not to start your sequence too early. I heard that you can frame grab from D3s video? Anyone tried this?

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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i never have issues with the buffer. I use sandisk extreme CF cards (60mb/s) and shoot 14bit RAW usually.

I can't think of a shooting situation where buffer would be an issue, but maybe an air show would push it.

Posted 1 year ago #
scoobysmak

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Well I only have really tested my buffer once and that was shooting my D200 with RAW+Jpeg(large/fine). I am sure the CF card I had at the time wasn't very fast either, probably lucky if it was even 10Mbps.

I admit to having my camera in CH (5FPS) most of the time. I have gotten pretty good at just getting one shot per press of the button but every so often I am not quick on the release and I get 2 shots at once. If I am doing wildlife, this is another story, I have been birding once or twice and needless to say, if I shoot about 200 pics and only maybe 10-15 are good enough to do anything with.

I did help a friend with some wrestling events lately and due to some of the fast action, I did the machine gun method trying to get at least one kids face in the photo (parents usually don't buy a shot of the back of their head). I could normally tell when a shot would be about to happen but to hit that split second was impossible so several shots in a row usually did it (I think the most I did was 6 or 7 but that was really rare).

Posted 1 year ago #
enigmeow

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Gareth said:
i never have issues with the buffer. I use sandisk extreme CF cards (60mb/s) and shoot 14bit RAW usually.

I can't think of a shooting situation where buffer would be an issue, but maybe an air show would push it.

I use a faster CF card (90 mb/s) on a D700 and the buffer is a huge issue. You using a D3s?

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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No, I use a D700 too. I never keep my finger down until the buffer is full, when the 3-5 shots I've shot are clearing I might do another short burst, when those are clearing, andother burst.

I can't think of a time where so many different things are happening that I would need to shoot 16 shots, then another 16, then another 16, all in the space of a couple of seconds.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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Thank for all the feedback guys

I am coming to the conclusion "The Decisive Moment" can normally be captured in a 4 frame bust

Posted 1 year ago #
kyoshinikon

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I usually do a burst at the decisive moment (roughly 2-3 shots) instead of starting to gun before. However when I do moto often the time between 2 or more bikes isn't enough for shooting em all so I do rapid decisive shots which can be a problem if my camera cannot keep up...

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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I have been using the D7000 CL and CH modes to "machine gun" high school basketball in 4 or 5 shot bursts to try to capture that ball just after leaving the shooter's hands. Even at CH, which is about 6 FPS, that ball moves a significant distance between frames. I can see the use for about 10 FPS to catch "the decisive moment" in sports.

Posted 1 year ago #
PB PM

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TaoTeJared said:
I can see where sports and some wildlife shooters need it, but at 6fps, I find the shots crammed so close together nothing changes. At 8, 10, 12, 14 I don't have any need for that. I set the CFL to 2FPS and the CFH to 4 for children portraits - anything faster and the buffer fills and I miss the "series" I really want.

For the most part even wildlife shooters don't need to have it, but it sure does make getting an in focus image a lot easier! I used to get nice wildlife shots with my D80 (3FPS), but I got a lot more out of focus images than I do with my D700 at 8FPS. So could a wildlife shooter use the D800, yes. Some wildlife shooters use 5D MKII and its slower, so why not the D800? For an amateur with limited time to shoot, faster FPS is nice because you have more in focus images to take home from the 2-3 hours you might get a week. For a full time shooter who has 30-40 hours a week, different story IMO.

Posted 1 year ago #
tcole1983

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I have only ever reached the buffer on my camera a handful of times and it was while shooting animals that were moving. I personally feel like it can make you miss the shot you actually want. By possibly getting a bunch of blurry and or out of focus pictures instead of a couple well planned and timed pics.

Then again I don't shoot sports much. That might be another situation to use it for. The couple times I have shot them though I still didn't use that approach.

Posted 1 year ago #
elvishefer

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I used bursts most when at an air show and at the zoo shooting big cats yawning. For the latter there's usually one frame in the bunch where they look misleadingly vicious. ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
PaulR

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Buy a Nikon V1 and shoot at 60 FPS or video at 1200 FPS if want to slow things down

Anything is possible with a Nikon V1

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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PaulR said:
Buy a Nikon V1 and shoot at 60 FPS or video at 1200 FPS if want to slow things down

Anything is possible with a Nikon V1

I don't find that they are as good at hammering in tent pegs as a D3!

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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For those of us who are still in the D90/D200, we have gotten used to 4 frames, then pause as the buffer clears, 4 frames, if one is lucky, but by then all the action is gone. The fps rate is not so much an issue as the total number of frames available. If a bike is going into a high speed shake and bake into a corner, one wants to be able to follow all the way into the sand trap and up into the air, into the sand, into the air, etc. Also, catching the rider where ever she or he may go... Then after maybe 20-40 frames, one can edit in the camera, as TaoTeJared says, dumping 90%, leaving five or six for final edit in the computer. In these cases, 6 or 8 fps is nice as things are moving very fast... like from 180 mph down to 20 mph in a few seconds. and this is why a D4 will do what a D800 most likely will not, and it is a matter of file size into the card. I THINK?

As to hammering in tent pegs, Look at the Photo-A Day and you will see one of my old cameras which may just have been used that way, ha, ha, ha!

Posted 1 year ago #
Bland

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I like using the 4+ FPS when shooting certain concerts, I just don't like going through all of them choosing what to edit but the results are always worth the extra effort when I use it. I've got a concert this evening I'll be shooting multi frame. It's amazing how many times a singer's feature changes in one second.

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Yup, and those eyeballs open and close as well! Sometimes out of four or five, the eyes are only perfect in one exposure and that is IT!

Posted 1 year ago #
adamz

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as for my approach, my shooting style is very similar to the one of skinbritt, prefer the reportage style on weddings, where occasionally I shoot in a series of max 10-15 images, usually w/o flash.
although in wildlife shot, it works a little bit different as I very often fire 15-20 images (especially when shooting birds), but I also delta them respectively leaving only with the one with good composition. with bigger animals, I'm trying not to exceed 5-7 images, as their speed is usually low.

Posted 1 year ago #