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D5100 focus problem

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cerberusjf

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Hi,
I have a D5100 which has always been erratic with its focussing in auto area and I wasn't sure why in the beginning. I narrowed it down to the top focus point, which rarely achieved focus in single point mode. The rest of the focus points would focus perfectly in the same conditions with the same settings and pointing at the same point on the same subject. Typical settings of the camera would be 1/160 s, f1.8, iso 400 (in auto mode). The top focus point can only achieve focus if there was something of very strong contrast, the rest don't need that. This focussing issue makes the camera pretty unuseable for me.

This camera has been back at Nikon twice and has been returned with the same problem. The last time I asked them to list what work they'd done on the camera and the only part mentioning focus was this:-

"Body depth, body focus, AF accuracy checked and recalibrated if necessary."

As the camera hsa been to Nikon (UK) twice and come back in the same state, I am at my wits end with them. I am extremely disappointed. I always had a high regard for Nikon. I am not sure what I can do. I don't see a point in sending it back to Nikon (UK) in Kingston, I am very tired and bored of this ping-pong.

Are there any suggestions? Has anyone been down this route before with Nikon (UK)?

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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How new is the camera and where did you buy it from? Are you able to exchange it?

Posted 1 year ago #
NSXType-R

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Not every focus point is going to be reliable. Is the focus point on the opposite end of that point just as bad?

But I'm not sure if I can comment, since I'm talking from the experience of a D40 that has a whopping 3 autofocus points. :D

Posted 1 year ago #
golf007sd

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Sorry to hear about your problem. Nikon does make outstanding product, so don't beat yourself up thinking you made a mistake in buying their equipment.

With that out of the way, have you tried a different lens? It could be that the connection to the camera are the culprit. Also try taking it to your local Nikon/camera shop/dealer as see if they can look into it. Show them what it is doing and see what they have to say.

Good luck....cheers.

Posted 1 year ago #
cerberusjf

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Thanks for the responses so far. Yes I tried it with different lenses and the problem was the same. It is outside the return policy of Amazon, so an exchange is not an option. The focus point on the opposite site seems to be much better, but not as good as the others of the same type.

Nikon only make good products if they work or if they repair them when they don't. This camera has been to Nikon (UK) twice. They replaced the motor in the lens thinkink it would resolve the issue. I don't know how they tested it to determine it was working, but for me it is the same i.e. unusable.

It looks like I am going to have to make a 300 mile round trip to my nearest authorised Nikon repair centre for them to have a look at it. I am very disappointed with Nikon as a company so far.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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I believe the D5100 only has one "speedy" spot and that is the center spot. It could be the 2 spot away in up/dwn/lt/rt are active also. Every body model is slightly different. As NSXR said, the not every point is "made the same" as most are "supporting" spots. If you try to use those or full auto with continuous focus on, add the very limited depth of field of 1.8, it can hunt. That is just the way all cameras are - and Nikon is much better than almost all of them out there. I would try another D5100 at a store to see if it does the same. Maybe what you are expecting or wanting the camera to do, that body is not designed for it.

It is really hard to determine too much as subject matter and environment can make a very large difference. Personally I do not use the "auto" for the selection of the af point, I use the multi-single point and select the point I want. I have a D300 body so and I know it shares the same AF system as the D3 so it may react much different.

Posted 1 year ago #
cerberusjf

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Hi,
Thanks for your response. I understand that the centre focus point is more sensitive than the rest, but I believe the top centre one is behaving differently from the rest that are the same type.

For example, I deliberately tried to get the camera to fail to achieve focus by pointing at a blank wall.

When I pressed the shutter release, the camera would try to achieve focus, fail and the green lamp in the lower left of the eyepiece would flash to say it had failed. If I tried to press the shutter release again, the camera would try to achieve focus again and fail and flash the green lamp. This happened with all except the centre focus point which achieved focus (so far so good) and the top focus point, which did not seem to finish the focus cycle and did not light up the green lamp once it had stopped trying to focus. If I pressed the shutter release again repeatedly, the camera would do nothing. It appeared to be frozen. If I pointed it at something with extremely high contrast, like the black vertical edge of a monitor with a white screen, then it would come back to life, but it was difficult to get the camera active again.

Everything works as I expected, except the top centre focus point.

some of my settings

Mode dial "S"
qual "norm" "L"
wb "auto"
iso "auto"
max sensitivity 3200
min shutter speed 1/160
single release mode
AF-S
single point AF
metering centered
ADL OFF
bkt OFF
Portrait mode
EC = 0
flash OFF
AF assist lamp OFF

To give you an idea of the conditions I was taking photos in, the photographs that could be taken had the parameters in the range

iso in the range 560 - 900
shutter speed 1/160
apperture f3.5

I don't know if this gives you a clearer idea of what the problem could be, but any pointers would be great!
Thanks
John

Posted 1 year ago #
cerberusjf

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Sorrry, forgot to ass, this was usig the 18-105 lens rather than the prime. I hoped the problem would become worse with this lens as it has a narrower maximum aperture and therefore easier to understand. With the prime, all the sensors could achieve focus on a subject except the top centre one.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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cerberusjf said:
For example, I deliberately tried to get the camera to fail to achieve focus by pointing at a blank wall.

It sounds like your test was a success. Sorry but a $6,000 camera would do the same. All AF systems need some sort of definition in a subject to lock on. AF systems don't use dolphin induced sonar to to determine focus.

Now how about shooting something that you actually want a picture of? How does it react then?

Try this - Set up a bunch of cleaning supply cans, bottles, different colors, size and try focusing on those from 10ft. Center and the ones directly around it should grab it in a split second. Further out you get, about 1 second with under 3 tries. Make sure to have a light (normal lamp) on it as well. Then take the lamp away from the group and see how it reacts.

If your camera is picking up to iso 900, then it is fairly dark to count on the far out AF points as the lens's vignetting starts to creep in. That drops the light into the camera just a bit more which can cause the AF to hunt.

Posted 1 year ago #
cerberusjf

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Hi,
Thanks for the response. Yes it does affect what I want to photograph unfortunately. The first time the camera froze it was outside on a sunny day with the 18-105 using auto-area focus mode. The second time was during someone's performance I was photographing with my 35mm 1.8. After that. I stopped using auto-area and the top focus point (the most important one for me) altogether.

Looking further, I think I may have made some progress as to what the problem may be. I tried to get the camera to deliberately freeze in auto-area focus mode using the 18-105 lens (by "freeze" I mean that the camera would stop trying to focus, not show either a "focus attained" light or a flashing "focus not attained" light and would not try to refocus when the shutter release was half pressed again).

It did, and it froze with the focus about 9 inches from the front of the lens.

I repeated it with only the top sensor selected and it froze again with the focus at about 9 inches from the front of the lens.

So I think this is what could be happening - the focus seems to freeze at the minimum focus point when it uses the top sensor in poor light or low contrast. The camera cannot complete the focus routine to give "focus attained" or "no focus attained" so it cannot try to refocus if the shutter release is half-pressed again no matter how many times, presumably because the image the focus sensor sees is very blurred. The only way to get the camera to try and refocus is by

1 - pointing it towards a light to give it something very high contrast to focus on

2 - holding my hand about 9 inches away from the front of the lens so the camera can find something to focus on.

3 changing the focus point selected

All the other sensors functioned normally, i.e. they could focus in the same conditions. When they could not attain focus, the camera would try to refocus if the shutter release was half-pressed, which is perfect.

Does this make sense?

Thanks for any help.

Posted 1 year ago #
NSXType-R

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Nine inches away from your lens is too close, each lens has a different minimum focusing distance.

Odd that you said that only the top focus point didn't work as none of your focus points should work at that distance.

I just looked it up- the 18-105 has a minimum focusing distance of .45 meters, which works out to be around a little less than 1.5 feet.

The 35mm 1.8 doesn't focus at 9 inches either, its minimum focusing distance is 30 cm, which works out to be 11 inches or so.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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cerberusjf said:
Does this make sense?

It all makes since how your camera is reacting to the conditions/situations you keep describing. I could beat around the bush but in frustrations sake - I'm lost on why you think is should be different. Everything you keep describing pushes the limits beyond what any camera with your lens combination can do, and what the end result is, is what you are experiencing.

You have described your tests that your (or any other) camera can not pass, Nikon has looked at it twice, and you still think something is wrong. As a user who uses a DSLR 90% of the time, my base line is that of a DSLR. What you are expecting or believing your camera should do, I would not expect it to be able to do that with that combination of lenses most of the time. I would just use the center focus, lock it and recompose.

It sounds like you want it to react in a way like a point and shoot? Is that your base line that you are comparing what your DSLR should do?

Posted 1 year ago #
Paperman

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I agree with Tao ...

Some people just push and push to find a fault with their camera , some would rather ignore the problems their camera probably has as long as they can live with it.

One of the right hand lower corner focus point of my D300 usually fails to focus . Maybe there is a problem with it , but I choose to think there is not . I force myself to believe it is the light conditions , the CP filter which is many times on, maybe dirt at corresponding point on focusing screen ... There are 50 more points that work - so what the heck , I choose the one next to it.

So cerberusjf - maybe there is a problem with your camera but maybe there isn't and you're pushing the D5100 to out of its limits - 9 inches shooting distance ( ! ), no contrast scenes/objects , wanting perfect focus at ISO 900 conditions ...

Don't get me wrong - but if you can live with the quality loss of shooting at ISO 400 ( - up to ISO 900 I understand in some situations ) , you sure should be able to live with one less focus point . :-)

Posted 1 year ago #
cerberusjf

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Well, I don't have to push my camera to find fault with it unfortunately. Although I like many things about it, focus is not one of them..

Today I tried to take a photo of this ship in green "auto" mode and the camera froze with the viewfinder badly out of focus. It would not come back to life and I had to switch it off and on again. When I tried to photo it with single point focus, the camera would focus with the centre focus point, the bottom one but not the top one.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=daid4vq0z0iqmxb&thumb=6

I would have thought F8, iso 120, 1/250 would have been within the limit of a dslr

I did not try to make the camera focus at 9 inches yesterday, I tried to find where the focus of my frozen camera had locked, which was about 9 inches from the front lens. I guessed that if the camera had something in focus, it would reactivate the focus mechanism. It did.

I hadn't realised the 18-105's minimum focus was stated as 1.5m or 18 inches. Mine can focus at about 9 inches from the front of the lens at 105mm, which is about 8 inches from the sensor at the rear of the camera, 17 inches approx altogether. So my estimate is about right I think. Hear is a photo of my hand as proof.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=twq71lewr3cchfg&thumb=6

Perhaps there is a problem with the lens, or the lens/body combination. It behaves worse than my 1.8s, but I assumed that was down to its smaller maximum aperture.

Anyway, I phoned Nikon again and they think there could be a problem with it. They want to have a look at it again and I'll send in the lens to see if it is part of or the source of the problem.

This "freezing" at the minimum focus is intermittent in good conditions. The reason I was pushing the camera to its limit before was to try to get the problem to be more consistent so I could try and understand what was happening a bit better.

If as you say the focus system is acting exactly as it should, then I agree that this camera is not suitable for me.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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cerberusjf - maybe it is the way you are describing it, but I think you need to take it with your lenses to a shop and describe it to a very knowledgeable camera tech (not just a sales guy) and have him recreate the issue. Then have him help you describe to Nikon what the issue is.

Posted 1 year ago #
SunkissedBlonde

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i just picked up my first nikon.....a d5100 kit with lens af-s dx nikkor 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 g ed vr and af-s dx nikkor 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 g vr ... i really wanted the d7000 and have been waiting for it to come back into production...but i needed a camera to take some wrestling shots at a tourney and gave in and got this one for now.... i am a little nervous that i will do something wrong or not know something isnt right... so i hope as i read and gradually understand my new camera with what everyone writes i will come to appreciate what a nikon does...i was mostly a point and shot or a little turn of this lens to take pics so through being nervous i am also excited .. i hope what i did purchase is a good starter camera/kit to begin my journey with

Posted 1 year ago #
cerberusjf

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Well, I just got my camera back from Nikon (the third time) and this time they fixed it. Though it doesn't explain it on the report, Nikon said the focus problem was due to a firmware issue when I phoned them. At least it seems to be working now and I don't have to worry about it freezing on me or have to work around the top sensor. The camera is now what I consider a very nice one, but it has taken a long time to get here.

SunkissedBlonde, if your camera works fine, then you have a nice piece of kit. Hopefully you live in an area where Nikon technical support is better than here in the UK.

I've since discovered Nikon get terrible reviews for technical support, which matches my experience. My 35mm 1.8 is now back with Nikon after they replaced its motor - it will not focus manually now. With the lens in "M", the focus motor is activated every time the shutter button is pressed.

So, that's two of the four pieces of Nikon equipment I bought that came with a manufacturer's fault, the camera body with a firmware problem and a lens with a weak motor. The camera took 3 visits to fix and the lens is having to go back for correction after they fixed it. It's bad enough to get this under warranty. If I was paying for this I'd be demanding my money back.

As nice as the camera is, I am considering selling all my Nikon stuff and going with Canon. They get much better service reviews and I'm already fed up dealing with Nikon.

I should say that my comments about Nikon UK are about the site in Kingston. The customer support team in Dublin are EXCELLENT, 10/10. They really helped me. Kingston get 1/10, 1 point for answering the phone.

Posted 1 year ago #
tcole1983

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That is too bad to hear. Maybe it is just bad luck though?? I haven't had a single problem with any of my gear new, used or refurbished.

I think most D5100 owners have been hit with the firmware problem...or it seems fairly prevalent. It would have been the first thing I tried if I had a problem.

Posted 1 year ago #

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D5100 focus problem

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