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Security when doing night photos

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Started 1 year ago by msmoto
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msmoto

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This is a new topic, yet for a female is extremely important and comes from several situations in which I think a good deal of vigelance needs to be maintained. While shooting San Francisco from Treasure Island at about 5 AM a couple years ago, a van pulled up and a gentleman got out and started a conversation. Needless to say, I had one eye on him and the photo became the second topic in my mind.
When shooting at night in city streets, I allow a six to eight foot area around me and when someone enters this, I ask them to stop and come no closer. In my left hand is an LED flashlight on a cord, the right hand has the camera and lens with the neck strap around my wrist in such a way I can swing it and take someone down or severely slow them up.... admittedly the camera and lens could be trashed but my life is worth more.
Another technique is to have another person watching my back, even an off duty LEO. I love dark alleys, city streets late at night and other places where some interesting shots can be obtained. But the need to protect me and $$$ equipment is essential.

Any thoughts?

Posted 1 year ago #
spraynpray

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I'm with you on this and so I will not go out with my kit 'in town' on my own at night. Shooting with friends is fun though.

We can't get CCP's in England because pistols, tazars, pepper sprays etc. are illegal, and the problem is all the criminals know that - robbing presents no risk to them!

Posted 1 year ago #
Rx4Photo

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Here's an idea depending how much technology you're willing to get involved with. If you do enough night photography perhaps you could invest in a low cost mini-recorder (they're cheap enough now-a-days) and mount it somewhere in your car with a tripod/camcorder clamp and pointed outward. When you park make sure the camera is aimed in your general direction and turn it on. God forbid something happens but it's being recorded if there's enough light.

You have to think safety first. Do a couple of drive-bys. Scout the area. My thing is "If it don't look good I ain't getting out." Whenever I go out for late photos I try to be as pre-setup as possible. My tripod is already extended, shoe on camera, camera settings already as close to where I "think" I want them, etc before I get out of the car. Work fast if possible. If you have to go too far from the car to get your shot then it's probably best to recruit a buddy. And as my Grandfather once told me and my brother...always have something in your pocket!

Posted 1 year ago #
Funduro

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Plan for the drunks, addicts and thief's. Can't do much when facing a firearm unless you have taken self defense classes. We might know how valuable the equipment we carry is, but they want money first and foremost. Have a "trow away" wallet, old wallet filled with color copies of 20's bills, take that out of camera bag, trow away from you while screaming HERE'S MY MONEY DON"T HURT ME" That way the criminal will go after the fake wallet and runs away instead of going for the camera bag. Then run like hell before he/she realizes the trick!
The most powerful muscle on the human body are the leg muscles, drop to floor use them as weapon while screaming FIRE over and over. The loud fire calls will draw more attention then help me. Criminals hate drawing attention so use that against them. Have a mono pod with a mini tilt head, hitting with the magnesium head will hurt even if using a carbon fiber one. Buy the super bright Tactical Cree led flashlight, some have ultra bright strobe feature(B&H has them). Hit the adams apple area, hitting the nose causes automatic retaliation instinct so try not to hit it. I'm not a self defense expert, so my tips might not be the best or correct, feel free to criticize if I'm wrong in any.
Avatar by Steve McCurry

Posted 1 year ago #
Bland

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I've gotten myself in similar situations msmoto and your topic is a must for those wanting to shoot those types of shots.

Here's my 2 cents:

1. Always have someone with you.

2. Downtown areas and etc that time of evening/morning have few cops patrolling, so even a 911 call wouldn't help you.

3. No one is going to confront you that time of day unless they mean you harm.

4. A gun is a great form of protection but one "must" take classes on gun usage before using it as protection.

5. Never carry your camera exposed or in a camera bag, use something else to carry it with as I use a leather bag.

6. Some shots are just not worth the harm that may come to one.

7. When shooting late night events ones first thought should be where they park their car.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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I live in a "emerging" downtown area that has many old allys, buildings, etc. that are great to shoot. The bad part is that we have a homeless shelter near by and the traffic from transits is heavy. Add to that, less than a mile away over a interstate is the really rough area of town.

If I can't have someone with me, I don't go.
I have rented a taxi/driver to be my second a few times.
I will do early morning rather than late night shots as fewer are ever out.
I carry a super bright flashlight (400 Lumens), works great for light painting but the light is blinding as well. Not cheap but clips on my jacket or shirt and I can get to it easy.
I like the idea of the "toss wallet".

I would not consider a gun, stun gun, or other weapon. The fact is, you are not going to have time with your hands full of camera gear to pull something more out and have enough clear conscious to use it properly. And as Msmoto said, you can do some real damage with a camera and/or a tripod to someone.

I have been in some really bad spots and have had someone knock the hell out of me to get my wallet - and I never saw it coming. Just takes a blink of an eye or looking the other direction. I think the best thing you can do, is just avoid it or be in a group, act confident and make stern eye contact. And always make sure someone know where you are at, when you are going and leaving.

Posted 1 year ago #
Spy Black

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To msmoto, and any other women or people who feel uncomfortable when shooting in questionable locations, keep some mace/pepper spray with you, regardless of whether it's legal or not. Be prepared to defend yourself, and mace/pepper spray is a good weapon because it won't cause permanent hard/damage and allows you time to escape harm.

Think about it. If mace/pepper spray is illegal to own where you live, would you rather put up with being fined for using it, or deal with the loss of equipment and/or possible assault? It's a no-brainer to me.

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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Diamonds are not a girls best friend: a handgun is. Just get a concealed carry permit and practice often so you are comfortable using it (and calm enough to not use it unnecessarily). Nothing says STOP and Leave Me Alone as loudly as a handgun pointed in your direction. The weakest woman is stronger then the biggest man when she has a handgun and she can stop a criminal 25 yards away if she has been practicing at that distance. But note that most police shootings take place as "interview distance" which is 7 to 10 feet. If you shoot someone at 25 yards the police may consider that you acted rashly. So you might want to practice at an indoor range where you can set your target at about 10 feet. Then you will know the size of a person at that distance and be able to shoot them in the chest with a high degree of accuracy. The police aren't going to look askance at you if you shoot someone at the same distance they do. If you don't want to, or cannot get a permit, always go with a group of people when going into a risky situation.

Posted 1 year ago #
golf007sd

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donaldejose said:
Diamonds are not a girls best friend: a handgun is. Just get a concealed carry permit and practice often so you are comfortable using it (and calm enough to not use it unnecessarily). Nothing says STOP and Leave Me Alone as loudly as a handgun pointed in your direction. The weakest woman is stronger then the biggest man when she has a handgun and she can stop a criminal 25 yards away if she has been practicing at that distance. But note that most police shootings take place as "interview distance" which is 7 to 10 feet. If you shoot someone at 25 yards the police may consider that you acted rashly. So you might want to practice at an indoor range where you can set your target at about 10 feet. Then you will know the size of a person at that distance and be able to shoot them in the chest with a high degree of accuracy. The police aren't going to look askance at you if you shoot someone at the same distance they do. If you don't want to, or cannot get a permit, always go with a group of people when going into a risky situation.

With all do respect...."Come on Man!" If one has to carry a hand gun to take a dam photo, I say the hell with the shot. It is not worth putting oneself in such a situation...period!

Their is safety in numbers, thus coordinate the night-out with as many photographers, friends or family member as possible. I would consider taking a pepper spray as well...but that would be the extent of having any " concealed" weapon.

Posted 1 year ago #
El_Pickerel

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I love shooting urban decay but I also do not enjoy going to Trenton, Camden, other terrifying parts of New Jersey. "Fortunately" I work on the road and wind up in these areas anyways. Never at night, but I will still wind up jumping out in frightening places and shooting photos, or just shooting them from the window of my truck. If I wound up getting confronted while taking shots anywhere, I would probably have my speedlight ready to go, full-power, and get that in their face and get my legs to moving the general direction of the other way. I might also have the advantage of looking like a hobo (tall, thin, plenty of beard), inexplicably with a camera. :D

But yeah, if I were to intentionally go shooting at night in an urban area, I'm not going alone. I'm having at least one other person (preferably a photographer) with me. Going light, too... if it's somewhere I haven't been before I'm probably not bringing my best equipment either in case we have to move fast. I like the "toss wallet" idea too, to buy some time, and failing that a full-power speedlight at close range will surely slow someone down a bit. Even if I am in good shape and carrying a heavy camera lens (especially the old 50-300, that thing could do some major damage...) I'd rather avoid violence.

Posted 1 year ago #
jerl

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I have to agree with many of the posts here, but I think the best way to protect yourself is to prevent yourself from even being a target in the first place. I would much rather avoid confrontation altogether rather than to try to fight your way out of it, which could end disastrously.

Especially if you're on your own, the best advice I could give would be to avoid staying in one place for more than a moment. If you take your picture and move on quickly, then you reduce the risk of anyone even noticing you. If they do see you, they are more likely to perceive you as a tourist (who would carry only cheap equipment that's not worth taking), rather than a professional, who would of course be carrying professional grade (and therefore expensive) equipment. Of course, doing this is counterproductive if you are taking two pro bodies with giant 2.8 zooms and a heavy camera bag. If you want to be perceived as a tourist, you would best carry gear that a tourist might carry- a small light body a lens (maybe two). If you plan out your shots ahead of time, you can be done very quickly indeed.

It probably doesn't sound like ideal advice, but if you are photographing in dangerous urban areas, you can't follow the same practices you would in a nature shoot. I would say that you are always better off arriving home safely with all of your gear intact, even if that means having to come back again and reshoot an image.

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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Spy Black said:
To msmoto, and any other women or people who feel uncomfortable when shooting in questionable locations, keep some mace/pepper spray with you, regardless of whether it's legal or not. Be prepared to defend yourself, and mace/pepper spray is a good weapon because it won't cause permanent hard/damage and allows you time to escape harm.

Think about it. If mace/pepper spray is illegal to own where you live, would you rather put up with being fined for using it, or deal with the loss of equipment and/or possible assault? It's a no-brainer to me.

You're right Spy Black, I'd rather do what I need to at the time and face the consequence later, but your missing one thing.........If you live in a country where their ownership and use is forbidden, buying some is not easy (I know you can DIY). There's always a chance that you'll get one past customs or through the post, but I for one wouldn't be prepared to risk being prosecuted to protect myself from a theoretical future event.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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golf007sd said:
With all do respect...."Come on Man!" If one has to carry a hand gun to take a dam photo, I say the hell with the shot. It is not worth putting oneself in such a situation...period!

Their is safety in numbers, thus coordinate the night-out with as many photographers, friends or family member as possible. I would consider taking a pepper spray as well...but that would be the extent of having any " concealed" weapon.

+1 - Realistically carry permits in most US states are not easy to get, and for good reason. There is nothing worse than a panic-ed, pseudo trained person with a gun. Bullets don't have eyes, can travel far, go through walls and will hit whatever is there. I have been around guns my whole life, and I wouldn't consider carrying one.

Deterrence and avoidance - that is what keeps you safe. Something "concealed" doesn't fulfill either of those.

"You'll shoot your eye out kid!" (I finely get to use the only movie quote I know!)

Posted 1 year ago #
studio460

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I live in Los Angeles, where concealed permits are basically non-existent. However, I've asked several police officers what would happen if they caught me with a loaded handgun on my person when shooting alone in the city with $1,000s of photo gear. They all said, "probably nothing." Based on this, even though I don't own a handgun, if I did, I wouldn't have a problem carrying it in a concealed holster when shooting alone in the city. But, know that by doing this, you are still risking a felony (I believe) arrest. Although I've never investigated this, I know that you can take a class to become a security guard with legal permission to carry a handgun. Hiring one of these guys is another option.

Since no one wants to accompany me on my late-night cityscape shoots, having someone watch my back is impractical. I do the normal stuff--surveill the area before I get out of my car, etc. When shooting, I keep as large a visual perimeter as possible--up to several hundred feet if possible. I also typically have good situational awareness, since I'm often shooting with a cable release, so my eyes aren't plastered to my viewfinder 100% of the time. If anyone suspect enters that perimeter, I immediately pick up my gear and move to my car, which is always parked within a few feet of where I'm shooting, often parked illegally. The other thing I do is to survey an escape route. If attackers come from one direction, I know which direction, and exactly which route I'll be running.

But so often, the shootable streets in L.A. are filled with security persons/patrols, tourists, other still photographers, movie crews, taxi cabs, or hotel doormen, so there's often safe haven nearby. The really dangerous parts of town, deserted, gang-land type areas, I simply avoid altogether.

P.S. I also like the fake wallet idea!

Posted 1 year ago #
dormant

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Would a flashgun be better than a flashlight for temporarily blinding attackers?

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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My "throw away wallet" isn't a wallet at all. I put about $20 (many ones and a few fives) folded up and held together with a paper clip. I take this into the city out of my county where a concealed carry permit is not recognized. The idea is to know which direction you want to run for safety and then take the paper clip off and throw the loose bills in the opposite direction. He cannot help but see the money which should make him highly desire to go pick up all those bills he can plainly see lying there. Hopefully, the wind will start to scatter the bills and the "bad guy" (assuming there is only one which often isn't true) doesn't know if they are dollar bills or twenties so he has to quickly choose between pursuing you and stopping to pick up the bills scattered around. That gives you time. Of course, this assumes there is just one "bad guy" and he just wants your cash and not you or your photo gear (to pawn for more cash for drugs, etc). And it assumes he does not have a gun with which he can stop you from a distance.

Also, a woman doesn't have to be alone at night shooting photos to be at risk. They are at risk of criminal attack almost anywhere, even at home. I think almost every woman who is willing to learn some skills should have a handgun and know how to use it. No amount of diamonds or pleas for mercy will save a woman from a determined rapist or other criminal. Throwing yourself on the mercy of a criminal is a stupid idea because if they cared about your feelings they wouldn't be a criminal in the first place. The news media is full of stories almost every day. I am sick and tired of all the repeat criminals we see on the streets. Their criminal career should be end early by the determined resistance of a woman who refuses to be a victim.

Posted 1 year ago #
msmoto

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Wow, what a nice group of responses... I will have to admit the San Francisco shoot was pulling an Airstream trailer with a Dodge 2500 and I was leaving San Francisco heading for Idaho at 4 or 5 in the morning. So, traveling alone, which is the way I do it, I either take a calculated risk or not get the shot. High vigilance is essential. Incidentally, the photo shoot in Frisco did not get the results I wanted as I forgot to turn and get the Golden Gate Bridge. But we all shoot a lot more exposures than the good shots we end up with.

But the real risk is to not see your attacker. This means all the defense items are useless as it is the distance which gives the safety factor. The "do not come any closer" actually has a deterrent effect, especially if one has a hand in a coat or pocket. Most criminals do not like the idea of not knowing what is in one's purse. But the best plan is always to get away if possible. Taking a few photos of someone approaching if one has an antenna or other "wireless" appearing connection, is also a deterrent but it needs to be quickly explained to the one approaching this is uploading to a van or something.

In my past life before retirement, long after my pro photo career, i actually was involved in treating the addicted folks and have testified in criminal trials where capital crimes involving drugs were the issue. These are always irrational random drug seeking tragedies, and it might be the best idea is to have some money to throw around so they will go after it rather than me.
Having a gun forces the criminal to shoot you unless you shoot them first... tough to do if they have the draw.
Yelling and running, or a strategic blow, of which some of us have some knowledge, then running like crazy while yelling fire may be the best.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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If you have something like this in your pocket all you have to do is reach into your pocket to stop the assault even though a man is already upon you. This will be more effective than yelling, kicking and scratching. While it is not for everyone, it doesn't hurt people to know that such an option exists.

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Posted 1 year ago #
Rx4Photo

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Wait, I've got to get some more popcorn.

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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Or you could just get yourself one of these vehicles and then the bad guys are sure to leave you alone!

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Posted 1 year ago #
Sturgdw

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I recently came across this idea twice in 24 hours, which was rather weird: keep a speedlight set to manual/full power & powered up close to hand.

In dark conditions a full power strobe to the eyes will produce several seconds (>5 secs usually) of blindness, which can be helpful.

I have only recently started shooting some sunrise shots in situations that caused me some concern, but on both occasions had more reason to be worried about the crowd of photographers.

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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I would think a strong flash directly into the face at night would cause a few seconds of "blindness" as the eyes readjust. But a high lumen flashlight may be just as good and lasts longer. Once you have the guy blinded pick up something and keep hitting him with it until he runs away from you!

Posted 1 year ago #
spraynpray

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OK, hands up all those here giving advice to get a gun that have shot someone (not a paper silhouette) on purpose? None? What a surprise. It would be a life altering experience and not one that you can guarantee is going to come out the way you plan it to. For sure golf is right - there actually isn't a picture that is worth that. Take a few friends and enjoy yourself instead.

20 years ago I was physically attacked by a bigger guy than me and I can laugh about it now. If I had shot him it would be haunting me.

Oh BTW when it was legal here in the UK I shot pistol heavily and was club champ in the practical discipline so it isn't lack of knowledge or ability that prompts the above advice.

Posted 1 year ago #
elvishefer

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If there is doubt, there can be no doubt.

Whether it's stepping on a slick rock on a secluded shore line or getting out of the car for a photo in a rough and unknown neighborhood - there's a good reason for hesitating.

Be safe first.

I would hate to hear anyone got hurt or had gear stolen because they took a stupid risk for a photo that, statistically speaking, will probably suck anyway.

Posted 1 year ago #
Anonymous

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considering I am a big guy and and am pretty tall. intimidation usually is my friend even though that's not what I am there for. I don't like the idea of having to harm anyone, its not a part of my walk for Jesus. however it is better to stop someone without possible major injury, so temporary debilitating someone is my defense. so when I can remember to bring it I bring a (Kimber Guardian Angle II)pepper blaster. $40 most everywhere, legal in CA and NY, (I Think?). This thing is nasty, won't blow back into your face from wind, and spreads very wide upon contact. if this does not work for you a tazer is the next option. http://www.guardian-self-defense.com/guardianangel.htm

Posted 1 year ago #