Which cam for weddings: D800 or D4? Why?

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Which cam for weddings: D800 or D4? Why?

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xaphod

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Hi there,
I got into wedding photography a couple years back and i'm excited to buy a full-frame Nikon when the D4 and D800 are released. The question is, which one?

Pretend for now that the D4 and the D800 have the *same price*, because I want to understand why one is better than the other. Then we can talk budget later...

The weddings i've shot so far, I borrowed a D700 and loved it. Its low-light capabilities were sufficient for me, and for the other types of photography I do too. So that begs the first question: do you think the D800 will be at least as good as the D700 in terms of high-ISO performance? To explain how I think about this question: shooting at ISO 3200, will the noise and detail retention on the D800 be as good as the D700?

The second question: do you think the slow FPS of the D800 (rumored to be 4fps) is by itself a reason why this camera won't be good enough for weddings? If you answer this question, please also tell me how long you've been shooting weddings for.

Thanks for your help.

Posted 1 year ago #
donaldejose

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Just wait a few months and likely many of your questions will be answered by actual reviews of the actual cameras.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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At last, an easy question

Two bodies are essential for weddings, so get one of each

seriously though, just get a D700
why? because the D800 / D4 might not be available till 2013 and the D700 is IMHO the perfect wedding camera

Thankfully I do have to do a lot of weddings, but unless you are a paparazzi, I cannot think of any reason to need more than 4 fps

Posted 1 year ago #
DaveMck

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Based only on the rumoured specs, I don't see either the D4 or the D800 as wedding cameras.

I may be wrong, but I suspect there will be follow up release in 2012 of another model that will be the long awaited, true replacment to the D700.

My own recomendation is exacltly the same as sevencrossings - get 2 D700's now or add a D700 to your existing camera ... and keep waiting!

Posted 1 year ago #
adamz

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d4 - reception and church
d800 - session

Posted 1 year ago #
Ade Barkah

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I think for weddings (equipment-wise), which lenses you bring will have a far greater impact on image quality than D700 vs D800 vs D4 -- unless you're planning to shoot video as well.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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donaldejose said:
Just wait a few months and likely many of your questions will be answered by actual reviews of the actual cameras.

+1

And once that is out then it will depend on your style and needs. Some shoot with Leica M9s that ISO caps out at 2,500. Others use MF where iso 1600 can look bad. Learning to utilize lighting, flashes, strobes, etc will go much further and look much better than any High ISO shot.

I'm starting to see that High ISO is becoming a lazy man's crutch and many less than average photos could have been great with just a bit of lighting and much lower ISO. High ISOs have their use but I am starting to turn a direction in going back to more lighting and lower ISOs which any camera made in the last 3-4 years looks superb.

Posted 1 year ago #
xaphod

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Thanks everyone for the replies.

I should have mentioned: for 2012, due to budget restrictions my second camera will be my D90. For the weddings I shot in 2011 it was a great second camera - I was using the D700 as primary. So I won't be buying both the D800 and D4 this year.

I don't want to buy a D700, especially after playing with the small V1 for a week: there is damn cool new tech in that thing, and i'm sure they will bring that to the D800/D4, and I don't want to miss out. I also don't like the multi-func control on the back of the D700 (the little nub thing) -- nowhere near as good as the one on the d90, and annoying enough to matter to me. That being said, if the D800 is $5k and the D4 more, then I may buy a D700.

Thanks for the comment on the fps - good to know 4fps is enough. This makes sense to me (was what I felt in my limited experience). I also agree that high ISO isn't the most important thing, but I do like to shoot available light (i'm learning flash photography but it's definitely the thing i'm finding hardest at the moment). For example I don't think the AF on the D700 is that great, especially after trying the V1 ... that thing's AF is fantastic, really quite groundbreaking. I'm hoping the D800/D4 are similar.

Re waiting longer than the D4/D800 for the D700 replacement, well that's not a great option for me -- I need a full-frame camera for spring and if the D800 costs the close to the same as the D700 and has comparable low-light perf, then I don't see why I wouldn't get the D800 if it is available in time... of course, it might not be... fingers crossed...

Posted 1 year ago #
PB PM

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Even if Nikon releases new bodies to be ready for spring, unless you are a NPS member (they get first dibs) you wont be getting your hands on one till the late summer at the earliest.

Posted 1 year ago #
Abhinav

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Common dude,don't you think you're asking too many questions at this point of time.Keep in mind they are yet to be launched .

Posted 1 year ago #
Ade Barkah

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For many years now more and more weddings are being shot in available light, "journalistic" style. Laziness has nothing to do with the trend. It's a style which gives a certain "look" many brides are attracted to.

Jasmine Star might be the most well known wedding photographer in this style (she's a relentless marketer). Jasmine seldom uses artificial lighting. She has the eye for good natural light -- and owns a collection of some very fast lenses.

Her works are routinely featured in top wedding magazines. She uses a Canon 5Dmk2, which is arguably inferior to the D700 in low light. So I'm sure both the D800 and the D4 will be more than capable for weddings, but maybe leave that kit lens at home.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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zaphod

You say your Primary Wedding Camera is a D700 but you are not buying one, just yet
You also say you do not like the multi-func control on the back of the D700

I am going to guess you only borrow a D700 for a day or two at a time and therefore the controls are not second nature to you

To become familiar with a D700 If so you need to use it all day every day
and then the buttons and dials will become second nature

the D700 is a lot more complicated than the D90 and it take a lot of getting used to,
but once you have mastered it. It really is an brilliant camera and hard to fault

Posted 1 year ago #
xaphod

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@Sevencrossing: Correct, I tend to borrow the D700 for a day or two. I disagree about how complicated the D700 is (after using basically all it has to offer) - there's not much the D700 has in the way of functionality over the D90, it just has more controls on the back so you don't have to navigate the menus so much (which is great). I love the D700 and of course it is much better than my D90, don't get me wrong... but that little painful square nub thing (8-directional) is vastly inferior to the one on the D90 (looks more like a ring on the D90). It's a small detail to be annoyed with, but it bothers me a lot. Nevertheless I would potentially buy a D700 but they are still expensive and hard to find, and the price of the D700 will drop noticeably when the D800 is out. Therefore it doesn't make sense to me to buy one now.

@Ade: agree completely, I like avoiding artificial light whenever I can. I don't own any "kit" lenses :) I have (all Nikkors) the 24-70 f2.8, the 50mm 1.4D, the 20mm 2.8D, and plan to get the 85mm 1.4G this year unless the 1.8G that's about to be announced is really really good, specifically in the characteristics of the bokeh that I like. It's a small lens collection for sure, but i'm a firm believer in starting small and learning what you have well before buying loads of anything.

@Abhinav: no. Thinking like that will mean you won't have made your decision in time to be first in line.

@PB PM: then I will wait. I can borrow the D700 until then.

Posted 1 year ago #
golf007sd

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donaldejose said:
Just wait a few months and likely many of your questions will be answered by actual reviews of the actual cameras.

+1

All that needs to be said.

Posted 1 year ago #
AGC

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For weddings? I'd go for the D800 vs the D4. The D800 has the resolution desired by brides seeing detail in photos. The D4 is more a sports/photo-journalist's camera. Plus with the D4 you have it's heft. Do you want to be carrying around the weight all day long?

An even better choice for weddings would be the Sigma FF cameras. Excellent dynamic range. Great colors.

Having said that I think the asking price for either version of the D800 is grossly overpriced. $3000 & $3900. NUTS!!! For me if the NR rumored specs for the D800 is correct...it's no longer on my short list. Rather spend a few hundred more and buy a D3s. Or possibly opt for the D4. Cameras more suited for my type of photography (action/low light/natural light...etc.).

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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if you take a hundred staged shots with lights, then the D800. if you take a thousand natural shots with only a speedlight, then the D4.

if you do either, then you should know this.

Posted 1 year ago #
SquamishPhoto

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AGC said:
An even better choice for weddings would be the Sigma FF cameras. Excellent dynamic range. Great colors.

Having said that I think the asking price for either version of the D800 is grossly overpriced. $3000 & $3900. NUTS!!!

Says the guy who just suggested a $7000 camera...

Posted 1 year ago #
TaoTeJared

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SquamishPhoto said:
Says the guy who just suggested a $7000 camera...

And also the guy who doesn't know the SD1 is a crop sensor as well.

Weddings have been shot with lessor camera's (and still will be) for years to great satisfaction. Honestly I think it is a personal choice as well as the $ you are comfortable spending. Either would be phenomenal.

Posted 1 year ago #
heartyfisher

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I would doubt that the D800 High iso will be better than the D700. The pixel density of the D800 is the same as the D7000 and we know that the D700 out performs the D7000 at high iso.

I would pick the D4 for weddings bec of the incredible Dynamic Range of the D4

Posted 1 year ago #
zlik

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heartyfisher said:
I would doubt that the D800 High iso will be better than the D700. The pixel density of the D800 is the same as the D7000 and we know that the D700 out performs the D7000 at high iso.

I would pick the D4 for weddings bec of the incredible Dynamic Range of the D4

The D7000's sensor has 2.25 less surface than the D800's. The D800, when scaled down to 16mp, will have 2.25 times less noise than the D7000. I will bet whatever you want that it will be better at 3200 iso than the D700 (when you compare print size, for example both at 12mp, not both at 100%). With the added benefit of more resolution when there is more light.

The D800 at 6400 iso won't be worse than the D700. Maybe not much better but certainly not worse. The D800 at 200 iso will make a joke out of the D700 (and even D3s).

Finally, don't forget that the D800 has the D7000's pixel pitch but with 2years newer technology.

The only drawbacks I see with the D800 is FPS and large file sizes.

Posted 1 year ago #
spraynpray

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.....and maybe the D800 will not have the D700's banding issues that we read so much of here?

Posted 1 year ago #
zlik

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And btw, if you don't plan to do videos, the D3s is more than enough. Or for the same price as a D4, you can get a D3s and a D7000. Or two D700s and a D7000. Or a D700, a D7000 and a pro lens. Or ...
You get the point. Is the D4 the solution ?

Posted 1 year ago #
heartyfisher

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@Zilk All very good points! but if money is not the factor as suggested in the original post then the D4 is the obvious choice. No matter how many D3s or D700 or D7000, for weddings Dynamic Range is very very significant and only the D4 can deliver that performance. But i think your suggestion of getting a d3s instead of a D700 now (instead of waiting for a D800) is a sweet choice. but i still think a D4, for wedding photographers, is the best choice. second best may be the D3X( had the highest DR until the D4).

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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heartyfisher said:
Dynamic Range is very very significant and only the D4 can deliver that performance. .

I think the dynamic range of the D700 (at lower ISO values) is greater than the D3s
So it seems possible the dynamic range of D800 might be greater or equal to the D4
At high ISO values i think the D3s or D4 should be better
but as I have said the answerer has to be one of each
so I might just sell my D700 after all

love arguments about a camera that has yet to be released

Posted 1 year ago #
zlik

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Yes, if money really isn't the factor, of course the D4 is the best camera. But unless you've got all the best glass and the money for 2 D4 bodies, money is a factor. As I said before, if you do shoot video, the D4 might be a great investment. If you don't shoot video, I don't think (based on the pictures I saw until now) that the D4 will be worth the difference from the D3s.

If I understood you right, you don't own a FX body yet. You borrow a D700 for your weddings and you seem to like it. I am pretty confident that there is more difference going from the D700 to the D3s than there will be from the D3s to the D4 (unless the production model of the D4 will produce better pictures than those we saw until now).

If you already had a FX body, then the D4 would be a good idea, and your "old" FX would become your backup body. You don't own a FX yet, that's why I suggest the idea of buying 2 bodies (D3s + D7000) instead of one D4.

@sevencrossing, yes, based on the DXOmark tests, the D700 has slightly more DR at base iso than the D3s. But the difference is really small and from 400iso and up the D3s is the clear winner. Plus, if you want great DR at base iso, the D7000 beats both hands down. The D4 will be like the D7000. It will have greater maximum DR mainly because base iso will be 100 instead of 200. If you compare the D7000 to the D90 it replaced, at 200 iso and up, the D7000 isn't much better. The huge 14ev it gets is from going down to 100 iso.

The D4 will have greater DR at 100 iso than the D3s at 200. But from 200 and up, I doubt there will be a relevant difference.

Everything at the moment, of course, is just speculation. Although I bought a D3s not long ago, I am really looking forward to the DXOmark tests of the D4.

Posted 1 year ago #