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Switching to Nikon, need advice

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nswelton

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Hi, so I can't handle it any more and I'm switching to Nikon. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm just not as up to date as everyone else on here would love some advice. Been reading through years of d800 rumors but don't have the same experience to know what is realistic with Nikon as I do with Canon, so I know my question is redundant.

First, do is there any info on how production is going to go in the next several months? I noticed the d700 bodies are now costlier than they have ever been. Any thoughts?

The other question is about rumors of a d800. I want a prosumer-size body, pro AF, pro build, weather sealing, and a really nice high ISO file in the 12 to 18 megapixel range. Honestly the d700 is the perfect camera, but obviously I'd like an even better version with even better IQ and high ISO performance should it be right around the corner. I shoot with 5d2 bodies and I don't use the big raw -- I just shoot in 10 MP small raw. Video would be nice but not a deciding factor. I also want to keep expenditures in the $2500 range for the bodies.

From what I am reading, the d800 is not the camera I am looking for. Expensive and huge files. Am I missing something?

I have about 6 months of quiet time in which I can switch, though I'd like to switch immediately to familiarize myself before my shooting season picks up again.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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welcomb to the forum

Can you give us a clue why are switching from Canon to Nikon

Posted 1 year ago #
jerl

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Yeah, we don't know enough about you. What is it that you shoot with now? What kinds of shooting do you do? What do you do with your pictures? What kind of support or lighting gear to do you use? What do you like/dislike about your equipment? What is your workflow like? What is your budget?

Etc.

Posted 1 year ago #
nswelton

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I shoot weddings and action sports. http://www.dreamtimeimages.com and http://www.nathanweltonphoto.com. For weddings I use all L series primes (24 to 135) and for sports I use 2.8 zooms (16-35, 24-70, 70-200). I have 2 5d bodies, a 5d2, and 6 speed lights, and a bunch of sigma glass that i'm going to convert to nikon mount on the used market.

i also have a small travel kit that includes the 24-105 f/4, the 70-200 f/4 and a 50 1.8. i think what i'm going to miss the very most about this switch is having that 70-200 f/4. it's a great ski and climbing lens because it's so lightweight.

What don't I like... poor build quality, CPS repair center that doesn't fix stuff properly, poor weather sealing, cameras with AF that's essentially center point only, finicky strobes that frequently misfire, and the terrible magenta hues in 5d2 skin tones that are a bear to remove from RAW files. workflow is a combo of photo mechanic and lightroom, very little PS work, all RAW.

clients are editorial outlets and wedding clients, prints up to 2 page magazine spreads and 28" wide prints when i make a 14x11 wedding album.

i'm not to worried about the budget since i have enough canon gear to fund the switch. i just don't want to spend $4k+ on bodies when the d700 seems like it'll do everything i need it to do, and i'm not a fan of big bodies since i carry two on my person when i'm shooting weddings, for 10-12 hrs (too heavy).

cheers guys, thanks for the welcome.

Posted 1 year ago #
PB PM

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Unlike Canon, Nikon does not offer different RAW file sizes, just full size. So if the D800 is 36MP as rumored if would not be the right camera for you. Honestly if you switch to Nikon grab a couple D700 bodies and some glass. Otherwise stick with Canon, as the 5D MkIII is rumored to be only 18MP with high ISO performance being the headline feature. Build quality/AF will likely be in line with the 7D, rather than the 5D MKII.

Posted 1 year ago #
tcole1983

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It seems like you are looking at us to convince you that you need Nikon, but it really seems like such a waste with all that you have invested in Canon equipment.

It also seems like you already answered your own questions. If the D800 is as rumored specs then it isn't what you want. Also the D4 sounds more like what you want, but it is going to be a large camera like the D3/D3S which you said you didn't want. So the option left is the D700. Or you can wait a month or two and if the release date rumors are correct and they release the D800 in January and you can at least see what it is going to be.

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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nswelton said: ......Honestly the d700 is the perfect camera,......

Absolutely

and it should remain so, even if and when the D800 ever comes out

especially if you do not want video or lots of mega whatnots

Posted 1 year ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi Nathan,

It looks like you are based in Vail, and I've no clue as to whether you can actually hold a D700 there or have access to one or not, and that would be important to any decision you'd want to make - see if it fits you hands right.

Equally important is a little time with another Nikon user that is familiar with the Creative Lighting System (CLS), although much of that you can get here, or by reading, but I think you'd use that a lot in you style of work - that would be a reason to consider 'Nikon'.

One step, the slippery slope, is that once you go Nikon, you will want to go Nikon glass. That's a considerable investment for you. BITA* if you will. I think it will be worth it, but it will take some gumption to do it.

Unless you're married to Sigma (I do notice an advert on your page), you'd want to sell existing glass and step up to Nikon, perhaps over the fullness of time.

I'm guessing that CS6 will be out in the Spring, and I prefer Photoshop over Lightroom, but then, it's what I teach.

I don't find that the file sizes that much of a problem, nor do I think that the D800 files will be that challenging next year, but I'm prepared to be quite wrong. God knows it won't be the first time.

Of course, as others have said, and they are quite right, you can stay the course with Canon; there is nothing wrong with the brand. Nikon has served well over 40 years, and I have some lenses over 30 years old I use every day.

My best,

Mike

*Bite in the Ass.

Posted 1 year ago #
golf007sd

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nswelton said:
I use all L series primes (24 to 135) ........(16-35, 24-70, 70-200). I have 2 5d bodies, a 5d2, and 6 speed lights....
i also have 24-105 f/4, the 70-200 f/4 and a 50 1.8....

Hello and welcome to our forum.

I must say, I have to agree with tcole1983....that is a whole lot of nice gear you have in Canon...not sure if I would be making such a move. But be that as it may, the D700 is truly an amazing body and fits within your budget. Though Nikon is no longer making the D700, their are plenty around to get...such as eBay and/or your local camera shop.

The only recommendation that I truly feel suits your current situation is to wait and see what Nikon offers in their new line of bodies in the coming year. Time is on your side...use it.

If you have an "itch" rent the D700 with some nice glass and get some primary-data for yourself.

Cheers

Posted 1 year ago #
NSXType-R

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No, you should switch over to Nikon regardless of what gear you have because Canon does not deserve your business.

Posted 1 year ago #
nswelton

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One thing I do have is the benefit of time, and I can sell and buy glass as necessary on the used market. I anticipate I may be shooting with a mixed bag for a while if I go that route. It's a daunting task but I can't imagine I will lose significant money if I bide my time and am patient. I'm curious as to what people think the d700 price tag will look like in the coming months, particularly on the used market. I remember at one point when I almost switched, the 5d2 was selling for $2800 and the d700 was going for $2200... Not they're reversed: $2700 and $2000!

Posted 1 year ago #
sevencrossing

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If, as predicted the D800 is considerably more than the D700 I dont think the new D700 price is going to drop

You are switching to Nikon because of reliability, so does buying second hand make any sense

D700s tend to used by hard working professionals and may have had a hard life.
Faults in a second hand lens will show up quickly but the the D700 is a complicated camera. You may not find any hidden or intermittent faults until you are doing that VIP wedding

Posted 1 year ago #
mirtos

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If anything, I think the d700 will go up, due to lack of stock. The problem in my mind is that if the specs and price that have been on NikonRumors are correct, the d800 isnt really a d700 replacement. I was hoping that when the d800 came out, the d700 would get cheap on the used market, but I think a lot of d700 owners will either keep theirs, or not upgrade. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted 1 year ago #
SkintBrit

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tcole1983 said:
It seems like you are looking at us to convince you that you need Nikon, but it really seems like such a waste with all that you have invested in Canon equipment.

It also seems like you already answered your own questions. If the D800 is as rumored specs then it isn't what you want. Also the D4 sounds more like what you want, but it is going to be a large camera like the D3/D3S which you said you didn't want. So the option left is the D700. Or you can wait a month or two and if the release date rumors are correct and they release the D800 in January and you can at least see what it is going to be.

I agree entirely. Depending on your financial situation (and it would take a good one) there is of course another option, sell your Canon bodies and buy Nikon, but keep everything else, start a new collection of Nikkor glass and flashes, and then have the enviable ability to switch companies as and when they release a body that is the best for you. That glass won't age, so after the initial outlay you'll only be trading in bodies. If I was in your position I wouldn't be prepared to take a massive hit when selling my Canon gear. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Posted 1 year ago #
Danny Ocean

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What makes you think the price on the d700 will not drop? Of course it will...once the D800 comes out, those Pro's with the d700 will probably upgrade. It is a great camera, but in terms of technology and considering it is a body, it will drop once it has a replacement, it is common sense. The only reason it has not dropped but increased to its original pricing at the moment is because it can still sell due to the lack of a replacement and stock. Then again I might be wrong but it will be interesting to see for sure...seems like the d700 owners want it to stay the same forever..truth is you could get a new one off eBay for 2300, 2400 which is fair. Probably a fairly used one for less if you get one from someone who used it for hobby. In the end, the D700 will take good pictures for good years to come still, what matters as always is what you do with it, technique and skill...secondly the glass you use..third would be the body in my opinion, the least important factor unless you make your living off photography and you're David Doubilet who needs all the perks from a D3s. But even he states that "We have watched in exhausted awe as colleagues chase the next-best digital camera. It is time-consuming enough to manage the assignments and make the images without reading every single consumer report on the next-best thing around the corner. The bottom line is that the cameras have to pay for themselves." But I am sure for the type of photography he takes, he will need high ISO cameras..which Nikon probably sponsors him for, just like Rolex does for his Submariner.

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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some people say they love nikon for the glass, but for me it is all about the bodies.

I was shooting a dimly lit wedding with the d700 a couple of weeks ago and the hired photographer was using a 7d. we were both only using on camera flash. who do you think got better shots? (he had a kit lens and i had 300 2.8 and 35 1.4 lol)

the AF system on nikon is far superior, as is high iso.

i doubt you use will use cls, you look like a pocket wizard guy with 6 speedlights. so nikon has a slight edge. also the af assist on the nikon speedlights is very good.

nikon only last year released a lot of new primes, so you are in luck there, though the 24 can have af issues, and there are no 1.2's, and the 135 is not updated (but i hope it is soon). the rest are as good as the canons.

ergonomically the nikons win. i hate the dial on the top of the canons and their clunky plastic feel.

magenta hues. just change some in camera settings to be slightly more cyan. never done this, but i know it's in there. don't know about canon, but i assume you can.

buy a d700. you will need it as a backup even if you buy the d800. also buy the two primes that you use most. buy 3 flashes (SB700 on camera, SB900/910/800 off).

keep some basic canon kit as a backup until you fully switch, with a spare body and more lenses.

Posted 1 year ago #
mtkmmt

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I share a studio with two guys shooting 5d2
while i have d700/d300s combo. I tend to stick with
minimal outfit which effectively is 24 2.8 af-d, 50 1.8 af-s
, 85 1.4 af-s and 70-200.

Now, we talk alot about differences beetween our
gear and these are the main points the Canon
guys are also noticed:

In studio: it's the Elinchromes doing the
work, all the same what camera is used.

On field:

Nikon has better af, better colour in some situations,
tougher build and much better ISO.

As for d800. I don't think it is a logical step for d700 users.
Many will save up a little more and go for D4 because
the use is mainly field for majority of d700 users. D800 really doesn't
sound like a allaround camera that is d700. I think we'll see d700
at weddings long after d800 is out there and
D800 makes it's way first to those who shoot low cost
studio productions.

Posted 1 year ago #
nswelton

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all of this is very interesting. thanks for all the feedback.

i spent last night looking at high ISO NEFs from a friend's D700. at 3200 it performs on par with the 5d2 at 1000 to 1600. about about even with the 5d1 at 800.

i will use the CLS - i'm a radio popper guy. i will probably go with 3 sb800s and 3 sb910s. my off camera flashes need to be able to be connected to battery packs (and it seems the sb800 is the cheapest one that can do that) and the on camera flashes need to illuminate peripheral AF points... and also serve as off camera strobes from time to time when shooting action sport outside.

at least, that is my understanding of the new sb910 - that it will illuminate all AF points?

looking through lightroom, my most used lenses are the 35, then the 135, then the 85, and then the 50. bummer nikon's 135 has yet to be updated. i guess that's in the pipeline. would love to see a 70-200 f/4 too.

i'll probably do this in waves and bide my time. definitely not starting today - canon rebate season is in full swing!

oh, also, does anyone have any insight into how different the NEF files are between the d700 and the d3s? post is way more time consuming when working with files from different bodies, and the 5d1 and 5d2 are nowhere close.

Posted 1 year ago #
enigmeow

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nswelton said:
oh, also, does anyone have any insight into how different the NEF files are between the d700 and the d3s? post is way more time consuming when working with files from different bodies, and the 5d1 and 5d2 are nowhere close.

I find that interesting. Other then some tags, the actual raw format/data is the same. There must be a difference in how they do their color processing (which is where the magic happens)

The raw processor I wrote took forever but that was because we did everything in real 64 bit floating point instead of a fix floating approx and used a Nelder-Mead optimization algorithm for the color mapping

I wonder if they do the d3s processing in true floating point for the higher quality as well..

Were you using the Nikon tools for post or Adobe ones?

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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the 910 will illuminate all af points, but so will the 700. some people have had issues with the 900 bending their hotshoes on the d700 (the d3 hotshoe is stronger), this may or may not happen to you. if you do get 910's for on camera, get the little rubber thingy that gives some weather protection as it makes the connection stronger.

what do you mean about the files being different. i just found this on google; "The 5D's native RAW format is 12bit and the 5DmkII's RAW format is 14-bit". With the D700 you can choose. I use 14 bit indoors and 12bit outdoors most of the time.

Posted 1 year ago #
enigmeow

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Gareth said:
I use 14 bit indoors and 12bit outdoors most of the time.

The "number of bits" refers effectively to the size of the huffman decoding table used to reproduce your image. So, a 12 bit table allows for 4096 "letters" while 14 bit allows for 16384.

Given this, I would guess there is more variability in a outside scene then inside leading me to use the 14bit instead of the 12bit. Maybe it would be worth setting up some test images and inspecting the raw data produced.. (http://www.stormbirds.org/~jsiegel/nikon.htm is the beginnings of a writeup on this..)

Posted 1 year ago #
Gareth

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i use 12 bit outdoors when shooting sports and events.

i shoot 14bit outside if i'm setting up lights and want the best possible file.

i use 14 bit indoors to retain a bit of detail in the shadows.

Posted 1 year ago #
enigmeow

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Gareth said:
i use 12 bit outdoors when shooting sports and events.

i shoot 14bit outside if i'm setting up lights and want the best possible file.

i use 14 bit indoors to retain a bit of detail in the shadows.

that makes sense.. to be honest, until this conversation, I had not really thought about when I should use 12 verses 14 bit raw

Posted 1 year ago #
kanuck

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Its amazing how many people are waiting for the D800 to come out. Surely, Nikon knows this because all you have to do is type in D800 in google and you get a zillion hits on various forums and websites. nswelton, I have heard it is possibly coming in January now but who knows right? Just got to hang in there..

Posted 1 year ago #
nswelton

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well, i think what i'm going to do is bide my time. excited to move to the nikon system but i think it'll go bit by bit over the course of a year.

as far as the raw files looking different, yes, the 5d and 5d2 images are wildly different when it comes to how they react to black point, contrast and fill sliders in LR. the colors are also significantly different, with the 5d2 being far more magenta despite infinite fiddling with HSL sliders and camera profiles.

Posted 1 year ago #