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Nikon Rumors Forum » Nikon DSLR » [D7000]

d7000 telephoto lens advice

(78 posts) (19 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by greeper
  • Latest reply from tcole1983
  • Related Topics:
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    2. Nikon D7000 with lens buying
    3. I'm new here, I need your help. Which lens is good for D7000?
    4. D7000 highest per sq mm Nikon camera ever. Lens issues
    5. 16-85 DX ED VR - Worth buying today?

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  1. Mike Gunter

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    Hi all,

    Lens speed doesn't make the lens sharper. The 70-300mm VR is a nice lens, and very sharp.

    Lens speed does help in auto focus, just as it helps the user to see - you are looking at at the subject wide open (just as the auto focusing is).

    Whether Vibration Reduction is even important, that depends upon what you do and how you do it.

    Older and ailing folks who have certain tremor conditions might want it on most of the time unless they are like me and use a tripod for nearly all their shots and have to turn the VR off when on a tripod.

    My understanding of VR is that it is to stabilize an image. I would think that in panning an image, it would only work "part time". One would want to turn VR off for panning, or at least engage VR by pushing the switch to turn on the gyro, lock it, the shoot, but any 'gross' movement would likely sway the gyro off axis. I'm not into that particular technology, but I understood it to be a 'one of' movement correction (at shutter push), rather than a 'continuous' movement correction (as in during a pan), thus the many disappointments for Bland and RX4Photo.

    If using a tripod with VR, it would also be counterproductive, making for worse photographs in most cases than if the switch were in the 'off' position.

    I haven't used a 80-200mm f2.8 lens in some time, but plan to add one in the not too distant future. They are sharp and usually much, much more affordable than the AF models. If one uses a tripod, the VR is less of a selling point.

    My best,

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. greeper

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    wow I've got some reading to do. Definitely more involved then I realized. I'll hit up the Photo teacher where I work, he's a little on the bizarre side but he might have to lenses I could borrow to test out.. I've gotta find a photo class some where I can take at night to learn some tricks. thanks again looks like craigslist and ebay will be taking up some of my time here.. thanks again!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Mike Gunter

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    greeper said:
    wow I've got some reading to do. Definitely more involved then I realized. I'll hit up the Photo teacher where I work, he's a little on the bizarre side but he might have to lenses I could borrow to test out.. I've gotta find a photo class some where I can take at night to learn some tricks. thanks again looks like craigslist and ebay will be taking up some of my time here.. thanks again!!!

    Hi greeper,

    I was one of the Photo teachers at a few universities, and I hope, not a bizarre one. ;-)

    I want to amend my comments rather than edit them to include a monopod, too. A monopod would also add some image stability with a telephoto lens lessening the need for VR, at least somewhat.

    One more thing about the 70-300mm and the 80-200/70-200mm f2.8. The former is a f3.5 to f5.6 and changes during the zoom range while the others remain a constant f2.8 which can be important, but it is always nice.

    The 70-300mm is in my bag, and I _probably_ will get the 80-200mm f2.8 (non-VR) relatively soon. Again, I don't shoot freehand, so the VR is less important to me. It would make framing a little easier.

    My best,

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Bland

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    Mike Gunter said:
    I'm not into that particular technology, but I understood it to be a 'one of' movement correction (at shutter push), rather than a 'continuous' movement correction (as in during a pan), thus the many disappointments for Bland and RX4Photo.

    My motto for VR is NO VR, at least with what I shoot. I have used it in real slow speed situations where there isn't much light and it works great.

    The thing with shooting kid's soccer games is they're coming at you, going sideways and up and down at the same time. That imo is what causes the blurring. Next year I'll be trying to shoot him at 1/2000 instead of 1/1000 and that should fix the problem, I hope.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Rx4Photo

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    This thread has turned into a good primer for me as well. Next year, if the kids decide they want to play soccer again, I will shoot with higher shutters speeds and possibly with a monopod. I knew to not use VR due to lots of reading.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. NSXType-R

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    Bland said:
    My motto for VR is NO VR, at least with what I shoot. I have used it in real slow speed situations where there isn't much light and it works great.

    The thing with shooting kid's soccer games is they're coming at you, going sideways and up and down at the same time. That imo is what causes the blurring. Next year I'll be trying to shoot him at 1/2000 instead of 1/1000 and that should fix the problem, I hope.

    I'm more used to not using VR than using VR. I find that VR really really drains batteries. Besides, VR will not help me get an object in focus.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Godless

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    My 2 eurocents (probably worth nothing these days because the Euro crisis..;D)

    Get the Sigma 85mm/1.4 HSM. This has become my most used lens quickly.

    PROS : Focuses fast, is a lot sharper than the Nikkor 85/1.4G @ f/2.0 and equally sharp later on, costs half the price of the Nikkor 85mm/1.4G, bokeh is ultra-smooth and perfectly round

    CONS: The AF can be erratic even in good light (which is why I mostly focus manyally on a given zone and take lots of photos -there are always a few keepers)

    If you cannot walk close enough to the action, stick a 2X TC on it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. greeper

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    Thanks my head is busting with the info her camera came with the 18-105mm lens so that's my starting point. I've been able to get what I think are great photos of my son in football but I can get fairly close. The 1000s of pix she's taken of my daughters soccer in my opinion are useless way to far away.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. donaldejose

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    Here is a quick "rule of thumb" way to judge how many telephoto millimeters you need.

    Start with her "useless" soccer photos. I am assuming your wife shot them at 105mm. (Maybe she doesn't know how to zoom the lens and is shooting soccer at 18mm?) Assuming she shot at 105mm, if you blew up that image of your daughters to two times the size it is, would that be enough for you? In other words, if you enlarged the subject of the photo two times would the image still be "useless" in your opinion? If you think a doubling of image size would be enough for a "close up" than you can purchase a 200mm lens like the 55-200mm or a 70-210mm or 80-200.

    But if you think the image of your daughter on the "useless" photo should be three times larger, get the 70-300 telephoto.

    A word of caution: a 300 mm telephoto lens is hard to work with. Often, you cannot find the subject you are tying to shoot since you are looking at a narrow angle and the subject moves all over the field with the action and even once you find the subject, they keep running out of the viewfinder. Finally, if you are able to keep tracking the lens with them, the camera has to constantly be focusing because your subject is in constant motion. All this adds up to missed shots. So once you get a 300mm lens to make your daughter bigger you still may find your wife's shots "useless" if she doesn't develop good technique. Just so you know, enlarging your subject does not come without some new difficulties.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. donaldejose

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    Here is an example of my cropping comment. This was done on the image created by a D80. A D7000 image will have more pixels to start with so it will crop even better.

    Here is the image I started with:

    Look at the height of that dial in the original image and imagine it is the height of a child on a soccer field.

    From that image I cropped out just the dial. Imagine I am cropping out only the height of a child who is the height of the watch dial in the original image. Here is the cropped image I get:

    Notice the image quality of this extreme crop. Image the child in the origial image is only the height of the hour hand on the watch. The original image would be practically "useless." But you can crop that small child to the size of the hour hand in the second image above. Does that make it useful? Is that enough enlargement for you? You can go bigger. Remember the D7000 will produce more pixels to start with and will crop much better. Since you are only printing 6x4 inches or so for scrap booking, this cropping idea may work for you. It would be something to try and it costs you zero dollars.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. donaldejose

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    Here is another example of using cropping to produce a telephoto effect.

    This is the original image shot with a D7000:

    Notice the lady in purple on the left holding the brown dog? Is that dog about the size of your kids in the "useless" soccer photos?

    Here is the cropped image of that dog:

    Notice how the detail showing each hair on the dog held up. This shows you what the D7000 sensor produces in an original image and what is left in a crop of the original image. Is that enough "telephoto close up" effect for you? It can be done without buying an expensive lens.

    Here is another D7000 example:

    Notice that black dog on the right? Is that about the size of your kids in the "useless" soccer photos? Can you get them to be that size when shooting your current lens at 105mm?

    Here is the image of that black dog cropped out of the above image.

    Now cropping like this is not the way to get the highest image quality in your final print and you don't want to do it for photos that will be published in magazines. But for 4x6 prints to put into scrap books, why not?

    I know people in this thread have said you cannot do it and you shouldn't do it. I agree if you are seeking the highest final image quality. But don't you think my crops above have high enough image quality for scrap-booking? Measure them on your screen, they may be larger than 8x10 on your monitor. I think they would print fine at least at 5x7 and likely at 8x10.

    I call this technique "photo mining" because you are mining your original image (the earth) to find good crops (golden nuggets) you can extract.

    We should be realistic, well grounded and give simple and inexpensive advice when that is all that is required to do the job at hand. On the other hand, maybe you want an excuse to go buy a $2,500 70-210 2.8 VRII telephoto lens and that is fine also. Then, don't show my examples to your wife!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. greeper

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    Ok this is cool stuff now if I can find the time to play with all this I just might end up picking up another hobby. Ok dumb question are you editing the photos with Photoshop? I have an old version but can get a new version free my where I teach..

    Also one more question, as for the 70-200mm I've been reading for hours and it seams like the Tamron vs Sigma is like arguing what's better a Chevy or Ford. Nikon is out of price range so not even in the discussion. It seems in simple terms Tamron takes better pix at certain settings but not action shots. Sigma takes better action due to faster AF. I'm looking for action shots primarily for Football, basketball, baseball, soccer and some golf (swings). 95% outdoor shots. Also one last questions probably shouldn't be in this thread but is a battery grip worth it..

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. Bland

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    greeper......I use Lightroom and I feel it's a must to have. I think you're under estimating the strengths of the 70-300VR, I've even shot concerts at night with this lens and it did excellent with a D90.

    Tamrons 2.8 70-200 can not shoot sports because it's too slow in focusing. The 2.8 70-200 Sigma will do the job but it's about the same price as the Nikon.

    I used the 70-300VR on both of these below:

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. golf007sd

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    Greeper...here is something for you to think about before buying any of the lens that have been talked about: borrow the lens for a week or two via borrowlenses.com. They have a number of options for you to consider before making your final decision.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. donaldejose

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    You can crop with almost any photo program. In fact you don't need to buy anything at all. If you are using a windows PC just open Widows Photo Gallery. Click Fix in the top menu and then click Crop Picture in the options listed in the right hand bar. A small white lined box appears superimposed over your picture. Place the cursor over the middle of any side to stretch or collapse that dimension. Adjust to the crop size you want and than click apply. Alternatively, you can click on the box for proportion and the white lined box will have those proportions. If you grab on to the box in the corner you can adjust its size while still keeping its proportions. Place the cursor anywhere inside the box and hold the mouse button down to move the box around. Once you work with it you will get it.

    Cropping is an elementary task done by Windows Photo Gallery itself. You don't even need Photoshop or Lightroom. You don't need to upgrade your version of Photoshop. I have Lightroom 3.5 and Elements 9 but I still do most of my elementary photo tasks (such as cropping, lightening, removing blemishes or sharpening an image) in Windows Photo Gallery or MS Picture it 10(a 20 year old program) just because I am so used to using them I am quicker with them.

    Before you spend a lot of money on new lenses and new software take some of your existing photos and crop them with Windows Photo Gallery already on your computer or with your current version of Photoshop. Look closely at the results. Is there still blur? Is the blur limited to feet and arms moving? Is the whole image blurred because it is out of focus? Can you tell if the blur is due to camera shake? Is it due to not using a faster shutter speed? Check the EXIF data to see the shutter speed your camera chose in the mode you were using. If you don't have blur issues now and currently are taking sharp photos can you enlarge them enough by cropping to be usable for your purpose?

    Try different shooting techniques. Try shooting in P mode. Try shooting in S mode with the shutter set at 1/250th, 1/320th, and 1/500th of a second to see how much speed you need to freeze the action. Try shooing in A mode with the F-stop set at 3.5. That will force the camera to use the widest lens opening available (which will be f5.6 at 105mm). If you cannot freeze the action in A mode with your lens set to its widest you need faster lenses, such as f2.8 lens or you need to use higher ISO. Try changing your ISO from 200 to 400 to 800 to 1600 to 3200. See when the noise produced by higher ISO degrades the image too much. Some people object to the noise produced by the D7000 sensor at 1600 ISO and others think that is fine, especially when printing small. With a DSLR there are a lot of variables you are able to control. When you find the limits of your equipment for doing what you are trying to do you will have better defined what you need in a new lens. In other words, you will have identified the variable which is currently your limiting variable and then you can purchase new equipment which sets that limit in a new place: for example is a lens f/stop speed of 3.5 to 5.6 is really your limiting variable and you cannot work around it by using 1600 or 3200 ISO then you can set that limit back two full stops by purchasing a f 2.8 telephoto lens. Since 95% of your shooting will be outside in sunlight I don't think you really need a 2.8 lens. If you can work with 3.5 to 5.6 by using higher ISO and still be able to freeze action adequately, you can get a 55-200 or a 70-300 zoom lens for a lot less money. In fact if you have $1000 to spend you could get a 70-300 for about $600 and a 50mm f1.8G DX for about $220. The 50mm 1.8 will give you even more light inside although the price you pay for it is shallower depth of field.

    I have the $280 Nikon battery grip for my D7000 and like it, especially for vertical shots. However, you can get a generic brand battery grip for $50 to $100. Look at these:

    http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Vertical-Battery-D7000-Digital/dp/B0050F2Z4Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1322943836&sr=8-2

    http://www.amazon.com/Zeikos-ZE-NBGD7000-Professional-Multi-Power-Digital/dp/B005CIG7LG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1322943836&sr=8-6

    http://www.amazon.com/Bower-XBGN7000-Digital-Power-Battery/dp/B0055T67BC/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1322943836&sr=8-7

    I have a Zekios battery grip on my D90 and D80. They work just fine. You can tell they are built cheaper but they still give you the vertical griping handle and the vertical shutter button.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Bland

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    donaldejose....are you saying all the money you spent on DSLRs, Lenes and Editing Software were a waste of money?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. donaldejose

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    Remember the specific needs of the original poster. He is seeking images of his kids for his wife's scrap-booking. I assume those images will be 3.5 x 5 inches or 5 x 7. I doubt she will use 8 x 10 photos. So the issue is how to get those size images using a D7000 and an 18-105 lens.

    First, set your lens to 105.
    Second, crank up the ISO as much as you can stand. 1600 should work fine, 3200 may work and some people may even find 6400 acceptable.
    Third, shoot in S mode with the shutter speed set at 1/250th, 1/320th, 1/400th, 1/500th of a second and see how low you can go and still stop the movement to an acceptable level.

    Now you have some parameters to work with. Set the camera to the highest ISO you can use, set the shutter to the lowest speed you can use and take some photos at those settings. These will be the best images your current equipment can produce for you as an original photo. But your camera has one more option: the super number of pixels in that D7000 sensor will allow for a great deal of cropping as long as your final image will only be printed to 5 x 7. What is the cheapest way to crop? Using something you already have: Windows Photo Gallery. How much can you crop? If you crop to half the image you have the same size kid as a 210 mm lens would produce. If you crop to one third the image you have the same size kid as a 300 mm lens would produce. I think the D7000 will allow you to crop to one half or one third the original image and still have enough image quality for a 5 x 7 print for a scrapbook and I provided some examples. So try some cropping. Print the results see if this technique will allow you to produce the scrap book image you need with your current equipment. Maybe or maybe not. You can only tell if you try it.

    Because we love equipment and lust after the latest and best, almost everyone here quickly leaps to the conclusion that the original poster "needs" to spend $500 to $2500 to get adequately close-up images of his kids playing sports for 4 x 6 prints for his wife to use in a scrapbook. I am challenging that assumption. I am suggesting he may be able to get what he wants without spending one penny.

    There is nothing "wrong" with spending $500 to $2,500 on a new telephoto lens. But the impression created from many of the responses posted is that it is "needed" to get what this guy wants to get for his wife. I challenge that. He may be able to produce what she needs without spending a penny. That is my point and no one else explained that to him. Someone should.

    As for whether or not all the money I spent on equipment was a waste of money the answer is "probably." If I had more talent I could produce great photos with a point and shoot camera. Equipment doesn't substitute for talent. Sure the equipment lets me do things I could not do without it, but being able to shoot in lower light or at a wider angle or with a greater telephoto doesn't itself produce a better image.

    Look what this guy does with an old outdated point and shoot.

    http://photo.net/photodb/slideshow?presentation_id=317651

    I can spend thousands of dollars on Nikon equipment and $700 on Photoshop but doing so won't automatically get me better images than this guy produced with a point and shoot. I love my equipment and want one of the next generation Nikon bodies which will be out next year but I have to admit the limiting factor is my skill, not my current equipment.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. greeper

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    Thanks again I'm pretty familiar with photo editing software I've been playing with photoshop for a while. I'm a bit rusty with it lately, but one I get back into it I'll remember the tricks. As for the basic software I fool with that also. I'll try and post some pix when I can find them. From what I've found price wise the Sigma is almost half the cost of the Nikon for the 70-200mm wouldn't the 70-300mm be gigantic? This purchase is not only for my wife and her hobby I'm the one who usually shoots my son's sports and ofcourse my pix come out better then hers :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Rx4Photo

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    greeper said:
    ... wouldn't the 70-300mm be gigantic?

    The 70-300mm is not what you'd consider gigantic - it just sounds big. It's obviously larger and longer than the smaller primes yet it actually balances pretty nicely on a D7000 and probably would be similar on a D5100. Since the maximum aperture is not as large as in the bigger F2.8 lenses the glass in the lens is not as big or heavy - even though the reach is longer. On the other hand, the 70-200mm / 80-200mm lenses are much heavier and longer than the 70-300mm (check out the specs at your favorite web site) and cause the camera to be a bit front heavy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. greeper

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    sounds good guys I'm heading into a local store tomorrow to ck them out. I may go with the cheaper Sigma 70-300 since the price is so low then I can get her other toys. If I don't like it I'll pony up the cash for me personally and get the 70-200. Here's a sample of my son's fb pix but this year I was able to get fairly close next year not so.

    </img>
    http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/Greeper/JT%20Football/jtfootball.jpg

    He's #23.

    I'm trying to figure out how to post the pix this is different then my other forum. sorry

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. donaldejose

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    I have the 70-300VR. Like Rx4Photo I wouldn't say it is gigantic.

    I would say its primary limitation is the maximum f-stop of 5.6 when you are zoomed out to 300mm. If you are shooting outdoors in good light and you can crank up your ISO to 400 you should be able to shoot on S at 1/500th a second and still freeze action with a f5.6 300mm. The problem will be shooting kids sports indoors. That is why people were suggesting a zoom with a 2.8 constant f-stop. Most pros feel they need that f2.8 to get the shots they want. The only downside to a 2.8 zoom lens is cost (and extra weight).

    I would say the 70-300's secondary limitation is the narrow field of view at 300mm when you are shooting a moving object. It can be hard to keep the object in the viewfinder if it is moving fast. Remember a 300mm lens on a DX body is really 450mm. 400mm is tripod bird photography telephoto range. Pros shooting sports work with the 300 f2.8 on a D3s all the time, so they have the skill to keep the subject in the viewfinder. Also, they are working with true 300mm and not 450mm because they are using a FX body. Maybe you will have difficulty with it or maybe not. You just have to try to see. A 200mm lens on a DX body would equate to what they are doing in following a moving subject.

    That 70-300 mm 4.5 to 5.6 VR zoom may be your best all around choice if you are sure that you will be able to work around the slow 5.6 f-stop at maximum zoom and you should be able to do so with a D7000 because it has clean high ISO. Just keep cranking up that ISO until you can shoot at high enough shutter speed to freeze the action and then hope you don't find too much noise in your image.

    I had trouble posting here at first also. See http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2450

    Nice photo of your son. I had expected to see an image at least 4 times smaller from what you were saying about "unusable." It sure seems to me you are getting close enough now with your 105mm lens.

    I cannot comment on the Sigma 70-300 other than to say be sure to get the APO version. It has better glass. Reviews say it is best at 70mm and worst at 300mm.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Bland

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    greeper......the Nikon 70-300VR is also a light weight lens for it's size which makes it easy to pan sport shots. You'll also find that you can shoot higher F stops with it for more enriched shots with sports. The football shot I posted above was at F9 1/500 ISO-200 (FL 300mm).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. mtkmmt

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    Angle of view is not a problem for any sportphotog
    or birder! Why, because they don't have to keep
    subjects in finder and chase them around the field. They think where
    the subject or action will be, focus there and wait the action to happen.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. donaldejose

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    Pre-focus on a spot and wait for the subject to move into focus works great, if you guess right!
    But if the action goes where you didn't expect, you miss any chance at a shot.
    I have used both techniques "set up a pre-focus spot" and "follow the action" both with and without success. The more you understand the behavior of wild animals and the more you know which football play will be called next, the better you will be able to use the pre-focus on a spot technique. Of course, the opposite is also true.

    Try both and see which gives you your highest percentage of good shots.

    What works best for me is to get as close to the action as I can in the first place. Then use a moderate telephoto so there is more room in the viewfinder to follow the action and to have that action occur in the viewfinder during the "decisive moment." With the D7000 sensor and high quality glass if find that I can always crop half my image away to make a stronger composition if I want a closer image. This technique gives me the highest percentage of "keepers."

    What works best for you may be different. To each his own.

    Let us know how that Sigma lens works out for you. We mostly have Nikon lens experience here so you can add something of value if it is a great lens.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Bland

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    donalejose......I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying I disagree with almost everything you have posted on this thread.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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