where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
Hi,
I have been waiting for the release of D400 for more than a year now. I am checking rumors almost everyday and surfing internet for a clue but couldn't find anything reliable..
What do you think? When will it be released? and what about the rumors about the d400x: the 36mp monster dx?
There are allot of us waiting. D200,300 and probably this body would have been as well, were made in Thailand and the floods certainly had a large effect. Doubtful we will see anything by the end of the year and could easily be until spring when Nikon can get production moved to somewhere else. Being underwater this long, it is doubtful that location will be up for a year if ever. Sony has already written off it's plant that is in the same area. Our best hope is they move it quickly to another facility.
Nikon has had the usual habit of releasing the D#00's and the pro D#'s together (or very close to each other). D4 rumors have been quiet as well. Nikon always releases D# bodies (& D#00) before the Olympics so I'm sure we will see something then. The D#00 series has always been on a 4-year cycle refresh and we are just at that point now (November).
I have not heard anything about a D400x or 36mp dx at all. The rumors for 36mp are for the D800. I doubt we would see anything above 24. Seeing what Sony's 24mp results, the noise is indistinguishable from the D300/s just in a much higher resolution. High iso usable limit didn't change and is still around 800. 36mp would be about the same as filling a FX chip to 45-50mp (I didn't do the full math but close) and I haven heard anything other then one-off test sensors in that range from the sensor companies.
To dogukan: I too have most awaited the D400. For almost two years now. TaoTeJared's answer is the closest to the truth you are going to get on this subject. I see the Nikon stocks are coming on OK now in Tokyo, the first rebound since the flooding in Thailand announcements. So Nikon corporate expects the setback to be temporary.
Yet the D7000 (one of Nikon's singular best buys for price and quality images) were made in Thailand in a plant with at least the lower floor submerged and it is believed the plant is a total write off. Just exactly where the D400 (which I still assume to be a DX camera with much upgraded from the D300s) will be built I do not know at this time. Collective wisdom is that the prototype D400s are actually in use with Expeed 3 Processor and between 18 and 24 megapixel sensor. That is the projected camera I want.
My exposure to the fine D700 ownership has made me think the D7000 size camera is actually my target. The D300, D300s, and especially the D700 are pretty big cameras for my own use. I find myself still picking up the D90 most of my Nikon DSLRs. The video on that camera though is unacceptable by my current goals. So all I am saying is I see your D400 quest as much like mine. I am going to guess right now we are very fortunate the D7000 is so much camera for so reasonable a price. Like you I will keep checking Nikon Rumors as the D400 you would think will be coming soon. Most rumors though were about the D800 which I am going to pass on I am almost certain.
With the flooding and the damage it caused who knows now. Its probably a good idea to invest in the D7000 which is a fantastic DX body. Its never a good idea it seems to wait for Nikon body refreshes.
Thank you guys for the answers... Probably we will see the d800 announced first and it will be available for april or so and for d4 & d400 they will probably be available for july or so... They will be overpriced at the start so get one in september?? Almost a year from now... I have started photography with an n90 8 years ago continued with a d70 and d90 so I really dont want to get the d7000..
Time to buy a D700 then if you really think that the D7000 doesn't do what you need.
At one time I thought of a D700 but at this close to the refresh, 3-4 years from now (that is my refresh cycle) it will be really out-dated. If someone's refresh cycle is less, then the D700 would be good. The D3s would give me the clean ISO I would want though and I could easily use that for 4 years. It't the $3-5K I really don't want to shell out. Also loosing my 300mm at 2.8 and 450mm at 5.6 (70-200mm & 70-300vr x 1.5) makes me think twice going to FX. Bokeh and wide angle keep me teetering back though as well.
Cameras seem to double in improvements every 4 years and the D700 will be have 8yr old tech by then. Just like the D200 or D40 that many still love - You can, or at least I can, pick those images out of a stack when compared to a D300/D7000. Nothing wrong with them, but the IQ is better from the newer cameras and it shows in certain ways that experienced eyes can see.
Olympics are July 27th, 2012 so I'm guessing we will see a D4 in May or June. I saw a report that Nikon should be running at full speed by April so that seems to fit for the usual pre-Olympic release of the new pro FX & DX systems.
A few Winter Olympic photo specialists I know are hoping to get the D800 and are themselves using D700 still for stills and much bigger movie cameras for video. They think that the D800 will do it well. The D4 of course will not be available for the winter games. Winter games are also very influenced by weather and judging from ski slopes I know of this early winter (almost) if it gets cold enough to maintain snow...it would be amazing. Many of us though still do wait for the D400 (DX) instead of the D800 and as I have wondered what I would buy next, I have to evaluate my present use. I even am thinking of selling my D700 ( I do have an offer I have agreed to accept if I do sell......My D90 I do admit I am using a lot but have decided based on my D7000 tests....I have decided to replace with a D7000. All of my suppliers (B&H preferred) currently can not send me the D7000. But when it becomes available I most long for a D400. And unlike so many.....I do not see much advantage for me with FX. First of all a DX and FX camera look identical on a HDTV big sharp LED screen. And in projected images.....the FX advantage simply does NOT exist. The advantage I THINK of a D400 would be vastly improved 3 Expeed driven video.
Davey,
I agree with you on dx. I am not a professional but I still value quality. The high iso advantage of fx doesn't exist for me. How many professionals actualy use higher iso than 800 anyways? We see that the iso quality of d7000 is simply great up to 800iso. If I were to replace my super sharp Tokina 11-16 wide with a nikon 14-24 for fx, it would cost me around 1500$ more. If you don't need very big prints, the new generation dx's are more than better. As for the d400, here is what I think it will be analyzing past Nikon habits:
-Bigger than D7000 (d90 vs d300)
-Same sensor and mp value as D7000
-All magnesium case w/weather sealing
-60fps @ 1080p ??? I doubt it but hope it will be
-Dual sd slots
-100-6400 Iso range w/H2
-7fps and 8fps w/battery grip
-More autofocus points than d7000 probably 51
-Better Af than D7000
...
Simply a more professional D7000. Just like d90 vs d300s
I don't expect a different sensor, less noise nor more mp.
The main reason I am waiting for D400 is because I have started with an n90 followed by d70 and d90 and simply want to go a step higher, feel the slightly bigger more rugged case and try few more fancy treats that it has to offer. Other than that I believe the image quality will be identical to D7000.
Well, of course we all have to wait to see what the cameras actually can do.
BUT, an upgrade SHOULD BE AN UPGRADE in better resolution and in clean higher ISO. So I predict the D400 will have 24 megapixels for increased resolution and about one stop higher cleaner ISO. If you feel ISO 800 is "clean" enough on the D7000 I would expect the same level of "clean" in a D400 at ISO 1,600. More resolution and more clean higher ISO should be offered to make the D400 a desirable upgrade from a D7000. Nikon should not use the same sensor as the D7000 with the same abilities and just add better weatherproofing and better video. That won't sell.
Likewise, the D800 should offer visible better resolution (36 megapixels?) and visible cleaner higher ISOs compared to the D700.
And the D4 (18 or 24 megapixels?) should offer the same increase over a D3. After all, these are primarily digital cameras (not video cameras) and each new version must offer clearly visible improvements in digital photo IQ over the model they replace in order to justify purchasing them. Cameras are not like the 50s and 60s Detroit cars where we bought a new one just because it had fins or some other "new" look while still being the same mechanical device underneath that new styling.
All three pro level cameras should be out early next year before the summer Olympics if Nikon can get production up and running (much equipment may need to be replaced due to flood damage and a new Chinese workforce trained or the trained Thai workforce relocated - it must be a nightmare for Nikon managers). While the D4 and D400 will be here by next summer they may first be distributed to pros working the Olympics, then to other pros Nikon has registered and then finally sold to the general public. So it may be about this time next year before you or I can get our hands on one of these models. Sorry.
Certainly I agree with donalddejose on his thoughts. That is why I am bringing (buying) in the D7000 to add to almost every other Nikon DSLR we have but the only FX Nikon I have yet is the D700. I am still by far most interested in the D400 at least with what it OUGHT to be. But the D400 news (used to be a popular blog or website) is pretty quiet right now. D800 on the other hand is much anticipated.
donalddejose: You make some good points, but the D300/D300s still managed to sell with the D90 out, and there was/ is demand even with D7000 on the market for that matter. Different shooters want different things. The sensor alone does not sell the camera, despite what tech nerds/geeks/pixel peepers might think.
Yes, it is possible the D400 will use the same sensor as the D7000 but speculation is that it will be a new 24 megapixel sensor.
dogukan said:
The high iso advantage of fx doesn't exist for me. How many professionals actualy use higher iso than 800 anyways?
The shot below was taken at ISO 1600 on a D700 and it was used for the cover shot of the spring issue of Gripped Climbing Magazine:
And if you haven't come across any photos from pros using their D3s at ISO 6400 then I can understand why you'd erroneously think that there is no advantage. Having shot DX for years I can assure you that the advantage is real and quite worth the extra expense. I would not have been able to get that shot in print if had still been using my d300.
^^^^
For indoor arena at our university, I use ISO 2000 on a D90 all the time, even when I am using f/1.8
Ditto with soccer when played outside under the lights.
Some of those pictures get printed in our newspaper, many get used in the media guides which our athletic department prints.
That's why I am looking to migrate to the new FX or a new low light DX whichever comes out first.
Also agree with Squamish, many people shoot over ISO800 for pro work. I can think of a number of well known pro Nikon shooters that sell images shot in the ISO1600-6400 range. Personally I think well exposed images taken with the D700, D3 and D3s can be used right up to ISO6400. Going beyond that might be pushing your luck.
How high an ISO do you feel you can push the D7000 and still get acceptable images? All seem to agree 800 ISO is fine, many will say 1600, a few will say 3200 and I think none will say 6400, but I may be wrong. What is your experience?
Most of what I have read says a FX sensor is still an F-stop or two better than the D7000 and that it captures more detail. I had hoped the D400 would close that gap. But then I would expect the D800 and D4 to open it up once again. But maybe the "race" with the new bodies will be in video and not in cleaner higher ISO.
I want cleaner higher ISO than the D7000 without spending $5000. I had hoped I would have such a choice in the $1500-$3000 range with the D400 or D800. But maybe my only option will be a used D3s.
please follow in either one of the previous topics:
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=3225
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=419
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