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(Features From The Nikon 1 In Future DSLRs?)

(16 posts) (9 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by donaldejose
  • Latest reply from jonnyapple
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  1. donaldejose

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    From what you have seen in the new CX technology what parts of that technology to you predict will be transferable to the new DX and FX cameras and what will that technology enable them to do better?

    Focusing, for sure. But I have not been able to read anywhere how that new focusing built into the sensor works. Do you know?

    High speed frames per second? But the DX and FX will have a mirror to move. Perhaps they can lift the mirror, shoot many frames and then lower the mirror?

    The new Expeed processor? Certainly, but what will it enable the DX and FX bodies to do?

    Etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. kyoshinikon

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    I wonder if you can use AI lenses with the adapter or even Af-D lenses (without AF)...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. PB PM

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    donaldejose said:
    Focusing, for sure. But I have not been able to read anywhere how that new focusing built into the sensor works. Do you know?

    If I understand the phase change focusing system is built right into the sensor, rather than a separate AF system, as it currently is in modern DSLRs. This wont mean much for shooting through the viewfinder, but it would mean much faster AF in liveview, and less hunting when using AF in video.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. donaldejose

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    Could the mirror be adjusted to allow sufficient light through it to use the phase change focusing in the sensor even though the mirror is down?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Testing123

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    donaldejose said:
    Could the mirror be adjusted to allow sufficient light through it to use the phase change focusing in the sensor even though the mirror is down?

    No need. Look at your current AF SLR mirror. Traditional AF sensors already get their light "through" the mirror. So unless these on-imaging-sensor PD-AF sensors are less sensitive than their traditional counterparts nothing need change. (Well except for the removal of the secondary mirror I mention in the other thread.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. donaldejose

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    Sounds good to me. I would say this new type of AF is very highly likely to appear in the D400, D800 and D4. So while the V1 and the J1 were not the cameras we wanted they are telling us something about the cameras we want.

    What other technology from the V1 and J1 are likely to appear in the next DX and FX cameras?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. kanuck

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    I here the exceed 3 processor is coming our way in any new Nikon (higher end probably only FX) body to be released in the next few months. Looks pretty exciting and I'm sure the image quality with be unreal. After playing with the D7000 this past summer there is a lot of reasons to be excited about Nikon's next body releases thats for sure.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. iris chrome

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    I agree with most people here. Expeed 3 and phase-detect auto focus will be the two most important features to be expected in the new DSLR updates. I think the expeed processor will really shine in a DSLR given the fact that camera companies usually limit these processors in smaller cameras. Not sure if this is the case with the V1/J1 but if it is then it's something to look forward to.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. NSXType-R

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    Better video maybe?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Drab

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    iris chrome said:
    I agree with most people here. Expeed 3 and phase-detect auto focus will be the two most important features to be expected in the new DSLR updates.

    How?
    We already have phase-detect AF. What do you think will be better about PD-AF on sensor? Thom Hogan theorizes about a "silent mode" and it could open the door for cost savings for Nikon, but PD-AF itself is not new.

    EDIT: Not saying PDAFOS isn't cool and that it doesn't open the door for new things, but I don't see how it (nor a faster (Expeed 3) image processor) are the "two most important features to be expected in the new DSLR updates". They both seem like conventional progressions IMHO.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. iris chrome

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    @Drab, I thought it was implied from the topic of the thread but what I meant was that Expeed 3 and phase-detect auto focus will be the two most important features to be expected in the new DSLR updates FROM THE V1/J1 CAMERAS. There very well might be other more important features.

    I see what you mean about the phase-detect autofocus and I suppose you could be right, however Nikon currently claims that V1/J1 autofocus is the fastest of any camera out there. I doubt this could have been accomplished without the hybrid autofocus system.This is not to mention the number of autofocus points that are packed into that tiny CX sensor (135 in total).

    While both features might be conventional progressions, I think they're two very important ones. Think of expeed 3 as a gateway that could open the door to many other important features in new DSLR's; faster fps, more buffer/write speed, AF performance, possibly better metering, noise reduction and other stuff too.

    I agree about the super silent mode thing, although the problem in DSLR's is two folds; mechanical shutter and mirror. Nikon could probably work around the mechanical shutter as they're doing with the V1 which has both a mechanical and electronic shutter but unless DSLR's go mirrorless (technically they wouldn't be DSLR anymore), this might be difficult to accomplish. Somebody somewhere (either here or could be Thom Hogan) suggested that Nikon should combine mirror-up and quiet mode to provide a truly silent mode. I suppose that could be done although there would be no viewfinder in that mode (assuming it's still an optical viewfinder).

    Drab, what other features that are in the V1/J1 would you like to see in the new DSLR generation?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. Drab

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    Yea, perhaps I'm being dour (and you're right that I ignored the "from the Nikon 1" context), but nothing about those cameras excite me in terms of upcoming DSLR features.

    No radio integration (Bluetooth, WiFi, 3G, or GPS), no network integration (WiFi, 3G, or ethernet), no modularity. Lenses don't collapse into body. Low-res high-speed has been done before. Good if not extraordinary sensory performance. No revolutionary accessories. No system integration. No change in photographic workflow. = no game changers IMHO.

    PDAFOS is likely the biggest thing, but my imagination is drawing a blank as to what it can do for me. The D7000's 3D AF tracking is great, if PDAFOS is what we need to expand frame coverage I'm all for it, else I expect the D400 can have ~75 AF points the old fashioned way. That said how often do you wish you had AF coverage at the top of your frame when in landscape orientation? Corner case for sure.

    (Context to that is I don't give a hoot about video, so take my comments with said grain of salt.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. jonnyapple

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    Has anyone seen a diagram of where the AF points are on these? I suspect that they cover about the same fraction of the frame as an FX AF sensor because they're using the entire image circle of the lens like FX does.

    I think the physics won't let them put these phase contrast sensors on the edges or corners of the frame because half of the information they're using for the rangefinder doesn't exist at the edges of the frame. It's the same reason you get vignetting at the edge of the frame. The missing light is predominantly from one side of the lens. I realize I'm not anything like an expert (just a self-convinced physicist, which can be a very dangerous thing!).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. iris chrome

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    Drab said:
    No radio integration (Bluetooth, WiFi, 3G, or GPS), no network integration (WiFi, 3G, or ethernet), no modularity. Lenses don't collapse into body. Low-res high-speed has been done before. Good if not extraordinary sensory performance. No revolutionary accessories. No system integration. No change in photographic workflow. = no game changers IMHO.

    I'm with you there. As a social camera, it would have benefitted from a 3G/WiFi functionality that would have allowed sharing through popular social websites (tumblr and facebook to name a couple). At least that would have been more appropriate for this type of camera than an add-on GPS unit. I was also looking forward to a collapsible lens but I guess we won't see that anytime soon.

    Drab said:
    PDAFOS is likely the biggest thing, but my imagination is drawing a blank as to what it can do for me. The D7000's 3D AF tracking is great, if PDAFOS is what we need to expand frame coverage I'm all for it, else I expect the D400 can have ~75 AF points the old fashioned way. That said how often do you wish you had AF coverage at the top of your frame when in landscape orientation? Corner case for sure.

    (Context to that is I don't give a hoot about video, so take my comments with said grain of salt.)

    Never really wished for AF coverage at top or bottom of the frame but I could have used it at the corner a few times. I'm not a big fan of video on DSLR's either. I want my D7000 to be a camera that takes nice crisp beautiful stills and nothing else. I hate the fact that my D7000 can shoot all different kinds of video at resolutions and fps that I don't give a rat's bum about. The only video I like to see come out of my D7000 is motion stop video. If I want a video camera, I'll friggin' get one. Just stop packing that junk into my precious DSLR (>_<) However, place good video on a P&S or the new Nikon 1 and I could go for it. I know it's not the most logical thing but go figure ^_^'

    jonnyapple said:
    Has anyone seen a diagram of where the AF points are on these? I suspect that they cover about the same fraction of the frame as an FX AF sensor because they're using the entire image circle of the lens like FX does.

    I think the physics won't let them put these phase contrast sensors on the edges or corners of the frame because half of the information they're using for the rangefinder doesn't exist at the edges of the frame. It's the same reason you get vignetting at the edge of the frame. The missing light is predominantly from one side of the lens. I realize I'm not anything like an expert (just a self-convinced physicist, which can be a very dangerous thing!).

    No I haven't seen a diagram either but that's an interesting point. I'm not a physicist either but I'd guess that it would depend on the size of the image circle the lenses are designed to cast. This is just a hypothesis so not 100% sure on this and maybe someone could correct me but I believe different lenses cast slightly different size circles on the sensor. In other words, the image circle is not always a tight fit around the sensor and some lenses are "looser" or "tighter" than others. If Nikon designed the new system with this in mind, then maybe (jus maybe) they're able to extend the AF points more into the edges and corners of the sensor.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Drab

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    I wasn't thinking so much a "social" camera (though Thom likes to go there) but rather a "simple" camera. Needing to tether a device physically to your computer for synchronizing is quickly becoming old fashioned. Craptastic $75 Android tablets delivered to my door via DealExtreme can do it, why can't a camera system costing an order of magnitude more?

    How long ago did Microsoft put WiFi in their Zune? The Zune may have been a failure but it wasn't because WiFi "squirting" was cost-prohibitive.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. jonnyapple

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    iris chrome said:
    I'm not a physicist either but I'd guess that it would depend on the size of the image circle the lenses are designed to cast. This is just a hypothesis so not 100% sure on this and maybe someone could correct me but I believe different lenses cast slightly different size circles on the sensor.

    I am a physicist, but one who isn't sure he understands the technology. ;-)

    You're right about the image circle being different for some lenses, but as far as I know that's just the tilt-shift lenses that have a bigger one.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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