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(Nikon V1 and J1- Mirrorless Camera Discussion)

(218 posts) (47 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by sevencrossing
  • Latest reply from msmoto
  • Related Topics:
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    2. Save The Reflex Mirror?
    3. Nikon Concept Camera = EVIL At Photokina
    4. Pentax 110 adapter for Nikon 1
    5. Nikon 1 Cameras Not in Forum List

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  1. Mike Gunter

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    NSXType-R said:
    I agree, I don't really agree with Thom Hogan's assessment. Much of what he said was somewhat true, but I really don't agree that the V1 and the J1 doesn't directly compete with M4/3. If it doesn't compete with that then what does it compete with? DX?

    If Nikon really wants them to be viable, they better lower the price on bodies and lenses and come out with proper lenses. No one's going to buy a $1000 Nikon CX mount lens with nano coating even if it's a F/.95 lens.

    And why is it V and J?

    The Problem is the questions are unanswered, but are floating in space...

    My best,

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Rx4Photo

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    I would really consider buying one of these cameras if Nikon offered something like a 6-18mm lens. With a 2.7x crop factor that would provide roughly a 16 - 50mm field of view. Since I sold my Tokina 11-16mm lens I've been lacking a super wide angle lens which I do want sometimes. Instead of buying another lens for $500-$600 I'd buy the camera and that lens for the same or a little more $$. Of course I don't know enough about lens manufacturing to know if a 6-18mm is even possible but neverthless, the idea would be good. The price would have to drop a bit for this to be doable for me.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. iris chrome

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    El_Pickerel said:
    @iris chrome - I would add as a pro for some people (those of us with a D7000 at least) that it uses the EN-EL15 battery.

    Done, although it's worth noting that this only applies to V1 as J1 will use EN-EL20.

    Rx4Photo said:
    I would really consider buying one of these cameras if Nikon offered something like a 6-18mm lens.

    There is a patent for a 7-13mm so hopefully it's still in the works. Peter also said recently that a landscape wide-angle zoom is in the works.

    NSXType-R said:
    Holy crap, is that a 300 2.8? That looks like a 24-70 on the bottom.

    And I thought the D40 looked ridiculous with the 105mm 2.8 on it.

    Thom Hogan was saying this would be excellent with a 85mm 1.4 on it. Yeah, I guess it would be, but the ergonomics would be utter crap. No grip on it?

    And who cares if it can shoot at 60 fps? If you're using it in the field as a super teleconverter, it won't last anywhere as well as a D3100 can.

    Yeah, the bottom one is a 24-70 but not sure about the one on the right.

    I've never used a super-tele but I've always imagined that you'd need to place it on a tripod 95% of the time. This should be no different. The bigger lenses already come with a tripod mount. For the other lenses like the 24-70 or the 85 f/1.4, I think Nikon will provide a way to mount them on a tripod without stressing the camera mount. This could be done through either a lens tripod mount or maybe even through the FT1 mount converter.

    Whenever you use a TC, you always sacrifice something in return. With the current range of optical TC's 1) you're limited only to specific super expensive lenses to begin with and 2) the image quality degrades to the level where they're almost not usable anymore with the 2.0x TC (I will admit this is not my own experience but word of mouth). Even if the image quality of the V1/J1 is not on par with a DSLR, it will not be as bad as when you use the higher power TC's.

    Godless said:
    Really, I see no reason in buying a CX-format camera... Still, a toy is a toy is a toy.

    So I take it you're never interested in a P&S either then?

    bjrichus said:
    I have seen this kind of thing before and as others with more prestige in the modern photographic world than I are saying (think Ken Rockwell for one)...

    Ken Rockwell? I really have a hard time visualizing the guy as prestigious. Yes, he does have some very nice data points collected in his website but that's about it. Most of what he does is live very cheaply so he can spend all of his money on every camera and lens model out there. He currently even has a review of the V1/J1 up on his website. How can you review something that you haven't had a chance to test? And I have yet to see any photos from his website that would blow me away.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. iris chrome

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    Here are two hi ISO pictures taken with J1

    http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1416150/dsc_0043?inalbum=nikon-j1-preview-samples
    http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1416161/dsc_0136?inalbum=nikon-j1-preview-samples

    The first one is @ 3200 and 2nd @ 6400. This is not bad at all.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. adamz

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    guys, initially I was definitely interested with this camera, but after sleeping with the idea I'm starting to see a huge potential it can offer in wildlife shots due to this magnificent 2.7 crop. If only the AF speed will be good and IQ will deliver than it's gonna be a winner for me. Not that I don't like my current setup.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. iris chrome

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    bjrichus said:
    Yet your icon is a wide open eye?

    Ok... go ahead and call me cynical, this is the profit motive in full flight.

    The reason the pink kit is apparently $30 more is because the kit will include two lens hoods for each of the lenses, a leather handstrap and a wrapping cloth.

    http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Products/Product/Nikon1/V27528/Nikon-1-J1.html#tab-ProductDetail.ProductTabs.Kits (scroll towards the bottom)

    ... I suppose my icon represents the eye of truth and not the eye of assumptions ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Godless

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    iris chrome <a href="http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?
    So I take it you're never interested in a P&S either then?

    Why would I be? Portability & spatial problems are mostly a non-issue with me.

    The image quality of most point & shoots sucks anyway at higher ISOs.

    Put a DX sensor on one with a decent 24mm equivalent f/2.0 lens and I am truly tempted. The Fuji X100 is the only interesting point & shoot on the market, although the lens is "only" 35mm equivalent. Still, there is quite a difference between 24 and 35mm.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. bjrichus

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    iris chrome said:
    The reason the pink kit is apparently $30 more is because the kit will include two lens hoods for each of the lenses, a leather handstrap and a wrapping cloth.... I suppose my icon represents the eye of truth and not the eye of assumptions ;-)

    Yeah, and what fashion aware teenager who is going to pop this camera into her "Hello Kitty" back pack on the streets of Tokyo will bother with a 25cent lens hood? Man - that is one expensive paint job...

    Do you know the difference between logos used by quality and low end brands? None.

    It's what we are led to think about them that and what they represent that is the difference. I'm not insulting you here, but from the marketing perspective, and IMO, an eye half closed (glitter sprinkled on the eyelid) would be appropriate for these two.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. bjrichus

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    iris chrome said:
    Ken Rockwell? I really have a hard time visualizing the guy as prestigious.

    First of all, I'm trying very hard to restrict myself to talking about the camera, the format, and such... not in personal attacks.

    My use of Ken was to illustrate that those who have a few years of experience in this are finding it very hard to see how this camera is going to be of any value to those of us who are already well established with FX or DX sensor equipped systems. It was not to throw a rock at anyone.

    Even cameras like the Fuji X100 (and soon to be out X10) appeal more than these new Nikons. There may be some specific uses where the V1/J1's are of real use - and I'm thinking where the high crop factor delivers deliver LONG lengths and deep DOF.

    For the rest of us, they seem to be potential cash generators for Nikon. That's OK.

    I'm sure from reviewing the samples already online, you can draw your own conclusions...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. JY

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    @bjrichus, I am very much agree with you in many things you said i.e long DOF, expensive, crap this and that etc. I can understand your feeling about your investment in nikon system too, however, i think you are a bit too attached to your gear maybe? The industry is transforming, if you look at other brands they all are pretty much the same. Sony? I am not sure if they have sold many FF camera.

    Seriously, from what have been leaked and what have been said by nikon or announced, clearly their One system is not to compete directly with their DSLR or other mirrorless system. The market is huge, i guess instead of fighting against sony and m4/3 system directly nikon realised there is other untouched market at lower end that is those who just wanting a decent camera that compact, easy to use as pressing a button without the need to care about exposure, composition etc yet producing good image (i don't think good image equal to bokeh here?). I am not sure how things like at where you all live, but here in sydney, australia I can clearly see most people are carrying a camera on their hand. Tourist, mum and dad that just want a picture of their family outing, young people on the street, park...err, more like covering every age of population. I do know many people who do go out with friends, dress up fashionly, have fun, do take pictures and share them on facebook who do not want to carry a bulky DSLR. Instead will prefer cute looking little camera that can match the colour of their dress. I think it is a smart business decision to enter this market.

    I am not saying the nikon 1 is amazing. I think it is too expensive to be an attractive product at its current price. So far the lenses are still too big (maybe due to physical limit?), however, if they are able to introduce more lenses the size of the 10 f2.8 in timely manner and priced right I am really tempted to get one for myself. Seeing the bodies of Sony/Oly offering at almost the same size as the nikon 1, i believe it is so easy for nikon to put an aps-c sensor to their offering if they need to.

    I guess we all need to open our mind. For those who lusting for the FF replacement should see this launch as a hint to what to come on the upcoming D4/D800/D400(FPS,even more amazing AF, video option, etc). The london olympic is coming, there is no way they won't release new pro camera before this big sporting event, unless if they really screwed by whatever problems they may have.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. jonnyapple

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    It won't be as easy as just putting an APS sized sensor in a future body from this system if they want to, JY. Nikon have committed themselves to the 2.7x crop (~16mm diagonal) by their lens design (17mm imaging circle). That is a physical limit, and an unfortunate decision as it doesn't seem to have made the lenses so much smaller than sony's nex lenses (still not technically pocketable, anyway).

    I can't believe people are going to run to buy these at this price point, but I hope I'm wrong.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. JY

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    jonnyapple said:
    It won't be as easy as just putting an APS sized sensor in a future body from this system if they want to, JY. Nikon have committed themselves to the 2.7x crop (~16mm diagonal) by their lens design (17mm imaging circle). That is a physical limit, and an unfortunate decision as it doesn't seem to have made the lenses so much smaller than sony's nex lenses (still not technically pocketable, anyway).

    I can't believe people are going to run to buy these at this price point, but I hope I'm wrong.

    You are right jonnyapple, didn't put a good thought when I type that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. iris chrome

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    Godless said:
    Why would I be? Portability & spatial problems are mostly a non-issue with me.

    The image quality of most point & shoots sucks anyway at higher ISOs.

    Put a DX sensor on one with a decent 24mm equivalent f/2.0 lens and I am truly tempted. The Fuji X100 is the only interesting point & shoot on the market, although the lens is "only" 35mm equivalent. Still, there is quite a difference between 24 and 35mm.

    "If you want a sports car, buy a sports car; if you want a econo-compact car, buy that. Don't tell me that everything has to be a pickup truck or SUV." --Thom Hogan, 2011.

    bjrichus said:
    Yeah, and what fashion aware teenager who is going to pop this camera into her "Hello Kitty" back pack on the streets of Tokyo will bother with a 25cent lens hood? Man - that is one expensive paint job...

    I can't believe you're still arguing this point. Yeah we all know that lens hoods are just a cheap (from manufacturing viewpoint) piece of painted plastic, yet we still have to fork $20-$30 if we want to get one for our lenses. The fact that those hoods are bundled with most Nikkor lenses nowadays is great but do you really think that you don't pay for them when you buy those Nikkors?

    bjrichus said:
    Do you know the difference between logos used by quality and low end brands? None.

    That's probably true when it comes to household items and such. Doesn't apply to electronics though and certainly not cameras or camera related accessories. There is a difference between adequate and dependable quality. Depending on what you want and need one might be more suitable than the other.

    bjrichus said:
    First of all, I'm trying very hard to restrict myself to talking about the camera, the format, and such... not in personal attacks.

    I did not attack you. Perhaps what I said was critical of Ken Rockwell but certainly no attacks were intended nor do I feel any were inflicted on your person. Not sure why you'd take it that way.

    /
    /
    /
    /

    All I'm trying to say here is this. You guys really need to 1) realize that the even though you might not have a use for V1/J1, others might and 2) wait until the camera is released and tested before you pass judgment on it.

    Peace.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Mike Gunter

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    TaoTeJared said:

    @Mike - "Max Perkins to his Thomas Wolfe pen" = awesome.

    Hi TTJ,

    I'm a former teacher of 'Max Perkinses and Thomas Wolfeses' and the hardest ones to teach, meaning that they have have the biggest challenges in their career are the Perkinses. The Wolfeses always think they have the answers, and maybe they do, but rarely if ever can they get those answers across without a even more talented, patient and dedicated Perkins to help them.

    Electronic media changed in the last 25 years and muddied up storytelling, too. What there is, is so much more media, that it isn't clearer or cleaner, but a din of noise to sift through.

    Every one has a voice, but not everyone has clarity in expression.

    My best,

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. NSXType-R

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    Supposedly Nikon was developing the V/J1 before Micro 4/3 was even out.

    Here's an interview with the general manager about it.

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1316730752.html

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Super Shooter

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    ^ I don't beleive that. The marketing guys are just trying to spin all the hate this new system is getting. If true then what was the hold up for so many years? M4/3rd was developed and went on sale and during that same time Nikon was doing what to these Nikon 1 cameras? It feels more like they rushed it because of how well Olympus, Panasonic, and now Sony are doing with their mirrorless cameras.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. TaoTeJared

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    NSXType-R said:
    Supposedly Nikon was developing the V/J1 before Micro 4/3 was even out.

    I'm not surprised at all. There is a ton of development that goes into a upgrade let alone producing a whole new system. It takes years to design, develop, one lens and then to design and develop the manufacturing process. Take into account multiple lens designs, converter, flashes, accessories and two bodies. It might also explain why the sensor is smaller as well - If they started the design before m4/3 were released. That sensor would have been huge for a consumer camera 3-4 years ago.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. Drab

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    TaoTeJared said:
    It might also explain why the sensor is smaller as well - If they started the design before m4/3 were released. That sensor would have been huge for a consumer camera 3-4 years ago.

    Except for the fact Nikon seems to know everything Canon is working on (and vise versa). Nikon being unaware of the plans of a multi-company standard does not seem to fit.

    I'm guessing the sensor is exactly the size they want it to be today. Not to mention that sensor size (non-m 4/3rds) has been public for going on six years now. (Depending on how you count your patents)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. NSXType-R

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    TaoTeJared said:
    I'm not surprised at all. There is a ton of development that goes into a upgrade let alone producing a whole new system. It takes years to design, develop, one lens and then to design and develop the manufacturing process. Take into account multiple lens designs, converter, flashes, accessories and two bodies. It might also explain why the sensor is smaller as well - If they started the design before m4/3 were released. That sensor would have been huge for a consumer camera 3-4 years ago.

    Yeah, makes sense now.

    10 mp isn't bad at all- I'm still on 6 mp at the moment. :D

    But when the V1 is halfway the cost to a D7000, I'd much rather consider a D7000.

    Drab said:
    Except for the fact Nikon seems to know everything Canon is working on (and vise versa). Nikon being unaware of the plans of a multi-company standard does not seem to fit.

    I'm guessing the sensor is exactly the size they want it to be today.

    In what way is Nikon copying Canon? Releasing the D7000 to beat the 60D is the only example I've seen.

    And announcing a red camera.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. Drab

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    NSXType-R said:
    In what way is Nikon copying Canon? Releasing the D7000 to beat the 60D is the only example I've seen.

    A - I didn't say Nikon was copying Canon, I said they seem to know exactly what Canon is up to and vise versa.

    B - Nikon and Canon have a strong and long history of walking in near lockstep technology-wise. If they openly colluded the tick-tock of their announcements could hardly be any more synchronous.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. aslightdelay

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    I was at a photo show last weekend, and you couldn't even get near the Nikon table (well, I probably could have, but didn't have the patience). What I could overhear of reactions to the "1" ranged from, "It wasn't as bad as I expected," to "Seems alright." Not exactly ringing praise, in other words, even if nobody flat-out hated it.

    On a brighter note, the Fuji booth had no line, so I was able to get my hands on an X10. Nice little camera... shame they didn't bother to give the guy at the booth anything more by way of specs than what we've all already seen. And when I asked if I could fire off a few test shots on my own card, he looked at me like I'd asked him to donate a testicle (not that I expected much different). Oh well. IQ seemed good, but I'm not about to go by what looks good on a 3" LCD.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Mike Gunter

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    Hi all,

    I would say that Nikon was telling their version of the truth and what's more telling is their subtle arrogance of corporate superiority in that only they could be right in having the 'correct' answer in what consumers want and they were intransigence in compromise to change to effect a technology that would make far more sense.

    A Nikon with a 4/3ds Nikon designed sensor could have been on the table months ago with better technology at a slightly larger body/lens size and probably bigger market slice.

    These cameras are aimed for 'tiny camera' market, but I don't think that they are tiny enough - that is 4/3ds are close enough, IMHO.

    It looks to me they were and are willing to throw the company under the bus instead of playing nice with a format (micro 4/3ds) that would possibly encourage brand dilution.

    My best,

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. bmxdad

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    jonnyapple said:
    It won't be as easy as just putting an APS sized sensor in a future body from this system if they want to, JY. Nikon have committed themselves to the 2.7x crop (~16mm diagonal) by their lens design (17mm imaging circle). That is a physical limit, and an unfortunate decision as it doesn't seem to have made the lenses so much smaller than sony's nex lenses (still not technically pocketable, anyway).

    I can't believe people are going to run to buy these at this price point, but I hope I'm wrong.

    Hi Jonny: The price point just like the Pentax Q is to high, The new Panasonic zoom lens is actually barely larger than their small prime lens, now if Nikon made a similar zoom lens they would have a pocket size camera, better yet make a P8000 coolpix with same sensor and finally get a G12 killer

    Pete

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. jonnyapple

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    Pete, it has been a while. I hope life has been treating you well.

    I don't know what Nikon and Pentax are thinking. I'm not sure they understand that latecomers can't set prices as high as the first companies that get their products on the market. Only apple can ask twice what their product is worth and expect people to line up to get it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. R8R

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    Speaking of price....has anyone looked at the accessories for the 1 series?

    Nikon store has the grip for the V1 for $119.95... (part GR-N1000)

    IT DOESN'T TAKE A BATTERY...

    $120 for a grip. Seriously.

    They're smoking crack.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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