where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
NikoDoby said:
BS.[...]
Your co-worker probably read the "Rep said" story here in the forum.
HAHAHAHA... I won't get a chance to ask until next week, but he doesn't read the forum (at least Jon *says* he doesn't), but does check the headline entries from the blog via 'alltop' from time to time.
If he has that "evil" smile of his next week, I'll know what is going on!!!!!
NikoDoby said:
When LYTRO becomes "real" it will be overly done like HDR and become just another marketing "gimmick".
My take on LYTRO is completely different. Assuming it actually works and can be cheap enough, you are moving a fundamental aspect of photography (choosing a focal plane) later in the work flow. I suspect it will really be a boon to professional video production where managing sharpness of your subject and DOF can be after the video capture. I could also imagine it allowing for still pros the portrait session time to be used more efficiently or allow more consistently impactful photojournalism.
I think LYTRO would then obviously find it's way to the consumer markets and become a default. Whether LYTRO would really defeat the big guys or instead license IP to them is a question.
What you could do with LYTRO is additional effects where you have multiple focal planes superimposed digitally from a single capture. That kind of thing can reach the absurdist limits of abuse like HDR has and be a fad, but that's not the strong benefit of LYTRO in my view.
Hi all,
Lytro seems pretty cool, but what's also seems to be missing is the 'amount' of DOF - that is one can't really 'dial in' the limiting DOF in the images.
Spitballing what Nikon's (or any company's) marketing plan is fun, but just an armchair game. I would last in the list to figure it out. I loath their Coolpix line, but it likely is the most profitable line, and I'm sure that they're in business to make money, which would decide what stays and what goes.
But that calls into question what they keep and what they don't. Some of their cameras are too close to each other to really seem to be marketable (and have always been - IMHO), and why would anyone save $50 or $150 for one model or another?
Anyway, in a few weeks, we'll see what's new. ;-0
My best to all.
Mike
The Man From Mandrem said:
I could totally see an overlap in price points for EVIL and DSLR with cheap DSLR for entry level priced well above entry EVIL, and Pro EVIL pricing comparable to the top pro-sumer DSLRs.EXPOSURE COMPENSATION WILL NOT KILL APERTURE. You want speed and DOF, you need it. For the hip, young crowd it's possible Ashton Kutcher has to come up with a cool new phrase for Bokeh or DOF and they will relabel the aperture dial so it's cool enough for the annointed ones.
Im not saying Exposure compensation is killing apeture, but in the realm of uneducated consumers it is almost dead. Look at most P&S's Apeture controls are almost non existant on low end and mid P&ses and Hard to find on many high end P&Ses, Bridge, and EVF's wheras exposure compensation can be found on the crappiest cellphone.
The point is that the consumer is not going the traditional way of photography. Stuff like Dof and intentional Slow SS blur are alien to many who own high end cameras. Portrait mode fixes that.
Only Serious photographers, Amateurs, Students, Pros, and Traditionalists still use full manual controls and need them as a dial or button, not a 4th level menu item...
If Lytro can mimic various Fstops and can work well with various focal lengths (not just normal ones) between 8-700mm (in various interchangeable lenses obviously if possible) it may have a foot on Canon/ Sony/ Nikon...
For all we know Lytro is working with nikon O_O , Odd on how quiet they have been regarding the EVIl/EVF.
>>The full time staff photographer was saying that he was told Nikon are going to REPLACE all dSLR bodies lower than D7000 with the new EVIL body <<
Told by whom ??
If any Nikon rep. would disclose any of nikons near future plans, he would not only get sacked, but also get prosecuted for all he's got.... , so all leaks from nikon are by accident or because Nikon likes to leak something.. Nikon would never damage their current bussiness by leaking something like this so... I think the guy is pulling your leg in a fashionable way.. :-)
kyoshinikon said:
If Lytro can mimic various Fstops and can work well with various focal lengths (not just normal ones) between 8-700mm (in various interchangeable lenses obviously if possible) it may have a foot on Canon/ Sony/ Nikon...
How much would this would cost??
kyoshinikon said:
For all we know Lytro is working with nikon O_O , Odd on how quiet they have been regarding the EVIl/EVF.
A VERY EVIL THOUGHT....
Personally I think Lytro is a joke and will be just like 3D cameras - may always exist in some form, few followers that like to "neatness" but in the end, it will occupy a very, small, niche market.
Don't get me wrong, it is a great tech breakthrough but the cost will be extraordinary. The camera will be ungodly high and the computer system needed to manipulate the images - will have to be the most capable out there. Add to that, I doubt there will be any batch operations so each file will have to be touched. I do not believe it will be a fun system to work with unless you like spending hours or days on a single image.
As on the actual original post, weather or not some rep actually knows something - well if you have ever worked in an office where there are a bunch of sales reps running around, you know they rarely know what going on especially with their vendors. You also know that they will take any opportunity to push anyone from a lower cost option.
There is some logic there though - D3100 at $600 with a 18-55vr lens, 5100 at $750 for the same, the Nikon Mirror-less? Say it is about the same as the Pentax Q which is pre-order, $799. Say store price is around $650 with a lens & kit, that is smack dab in the 3100/5100 territory.
If you are NOT a serious amateur on up, as we all are here, what you buy to put in a purse or bag for the same price, smaller/lighter or awkward and larger? If Nikon's mirror-less sells very well, I think it is just time until the 3100 series is gone.
I would love to see the 3100 turn into a F-mount Samsung NX like camera. Slap a 35 or 50mm on it and that would be a great camera.
So you want a mirrorless D3100 right?
Makes sense, especially if the 5100 is still around, you might as well make the package smaller.
No one would be willing to have a mirrorless D3 series camera, and mirrorless for the time being isn't really helpful anyway.
You might as well make the smaller DSLRs even smaller, that'd be the only way they'd survive.
Basically, the mirrorless D3100 would be the "flagship" of the mirrorless little cameras.
Then the small sensored mirrorless would be right under it.
bjrichus said:
How much would this would cost??
Way more than I'm assuming they are willing to spend. I will say that I agree with TaoTeJared that lytro is a fancy gimmick, but I think that if it was integrated into the right mainstream system it could be a gamechanger. However the limits of the technology and the lack of development funding insure that it wont get into a major system for at least a few years.
I believed the same with video. If the first DSLR with hd video was the Sigma Sd1 it wouldn't have had the same impact as the D90 did. I do know video already had and has a huge demographic so it was much easier to integrate that into a dslr (and the cost's aren't that high based on the prices of most dslr cameras with it, but who has the tech plays a huge role.
Another feature like this is live-view. Oly (olympus) may not have much of a market share but because of their arguably large and loyal following their introduction of live view ended up having such a huge impact on the camera market that literally all P&Ses use it and EVF's/EVIL's & Bridge cameras came from it. If contax played the same card nobody would have known that it existed...
After seeing where the a33 went the D3200 or D3300 may wind up to become an slt (if it can legally done) as slt's seem to solve the mirror issue without removing the pentiprism and mirror. Getting rid of the mechanism obviously saves weight and space.
TaoTeJared said:
I would love to see the 3100 turn into a F-mount Samsung NX like camera. Slap a 35 or 50mm on it and that would be a great camera.
Me too. I actually wish Nikon made a high end/pro like body the size of the D3100 just keeping the basic features and getting rid of the consumer crap.
Geez Nikon has been sitting on its hands for what seems like ages regarding its "EVIL" system. August 24th annoucements should be interesting. I'm sure Nikon will continue with its low end DSLRs there is just too much money not to...
I agree, the low end cameras are one of their biggest sellers. I don't see them discontinuing them until they start selling poorly. The new mirrorless has the potential to scoop up customers who would normally buy a low DSLR, but we'll have to see it first before we can make that prediction.
jerl said:
I agree, the low end cameras are one of their biggest sellers. I don't see them discontinuing them until they start selling poorly. The new mirrorless has the potential to scoop up customers who would normally buy a low DSLR, but we'll have to see it first before we can make that prediction.
Lets see what we can make from the post on the main Rumors blog about the "Coolpix Pro".
(BARF)....
Phew... That's better.
jerl said:
I agree, the low end cameras are one of their biggest sellers. I don't see them discontinuing them until they start selling poorly. The new mirrorless has the potential to scoop up customers who would normally buy a low DSLR, but we'll have to see it first before we can make that prediction.
Thing is though, I don't understand how and why there is such a large difference in ergonomics and performance between the Coolpix and the DSLRs. If they had any crosstalk between the engineers, it'd be wonderful but they both seem to be absolutely different companies.
NSXType-R said:
Thing is though, I don't understand how and why there is such a large difference in ergonomics and performance between the Coolpix and the DSLRs. If they had any crosstalk between the engineers, it'd be wonderful but they both seem to be absolutely different companies.
This is why the P7000 seemed to be a poor knockoff of the G12...
I really Doubt the low end will change however I still think there is a possibility for a d700/d300s merger body...
What still is the main puzzler is whether the EVIL will be pitched at bottom level consumers who want to upgrade or serious amateurs looking for a smaller camera... The sensor size screams consumer but the buying demographic seems otherwise. It would have been smarter to make a semi-pro camera at this level as it wouldn't only appeal to consumers but to pros who need a low profile camera (think London riots).
kyoshinikon said:
This is why the P7000 seemed to be a poor knockoff of the G12...I really Doubt the low end will change however I still think there is a possibility for a d700/d300s merger body...
What still is the main puzzler is whether the EVIL will be pitched at bottom level consumers who want to upgrade or serious amateurs looking for a smaller camera...
As an owner of a G11 that was my "knock around" take along camera (until my X100) I can say it is a good design and I think Nikon was smart to look at what works and use a similar design. I still would take a G12 over the Nikon, but Nikon made a lot of ground up with it.
Price points and competing with Canon's lineup will probably keep from a D300/D700 merger. If a merger were to happen that would probably be $1,000 jump from the D7000 and I do not see that happening at all. My D300 still has features that the D7000 doesn't have that has kept me from making that move.
Evil Nikon - from all the various patients I'm afraid it will be directed to the consumers and not anything like a X100 towards serious amateurs. Than again, maybe they floated those patients out to see what people said to see what direction they would take.
TaoTeJared said:
As an owner of a G11 that was my "knock around" take along camera (until my X100) I can say it is a good design and I think Nikon was smart to look at what works and use a similar design. I still would take a G12 over the Nikon, but Nikon made a lot of ground up with it.
The difference I find is that canon seemed to study the key points of their advanced dslrs when making the G series. It just feels like a 50D in a little black box (which is a key part on why it is successful). The p7000 seems like they didn't reference the key points of the dslr's (lack of communication and effort) so they wound up with a camera that is good but an obvious cash grab at the expense of the canon instead of a serious optimized tool that takes what makes the DSLR's successful. Nikon has never had a P&s at the success level canon has merely because they don't seem to get what makes cameras like the x-100 and G12 successful or popular...
I agree with you on that. Honestly if Nikon uses their compacts as their "bread and butter" so they can make their DSLRs top notch, I like it, more please and add jelly!
I have looked very carefully at the D7000 and decided that with a D90, a D300, and a D700, the thing to do was wait until the D400 came out with features that I liked in the D300. The Nikon camera I have MOST admired that I do not own is the D300s. The D300s video unfortunately is not up to the D7000 quality.
I think the dumbest thing that Nikon could do is eliminate their low end DSLRs. Why? Because they are so darn good. I have seen results with D40s, D40X, and D3100 and know that low end Nikon users do move up in many cases. The biggest thing that moves them up is their satisfaction with what they are getting from their DSLRs and seeing work from Nikons with more professional features and finally decide to make the move to higher end Nikon DSLR.
I do not though think that FX rules and DX is not quite there. Since a lot of my Nikkor glass works very well on FX the move would be easy. I was a University Professor for long enough to know that they might not have any particular pipeline to Nikon. Until we see what Nikon does announce and see it in use, we are speculating. Unfortunately Nikon Coolpix cameras are not exactly popular with the in crowd. I'd own one if i thought it were up to the quality of a G12.
I should note though that Nikon income from Coolpix is very important to the DSLR Nikon users. That point has already been made very well and I do not mean to fail to appreciate that.
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